Dee74

Hi Mark

I'm an Aussie too - the recommended guidelines are expressed like this:

Thats like slightly less than 2X 285 ml glasses of full strength beer.

https://www.nhmrc.gov.au/health-topi...hol-guidelines

In Qld we call those Pots - you NSW guys might call it a Middy I think.

Is there a huge culture of binge drinking in Australia - you bet....

but since I quit drinking in 2007 I've met guys who can make a carton last in their garage for more than a year and many many guys who don't drink at all.

D

cairn

Hiya aussie A lot of folks become continuous hard drinkers yet are not alcoholic. Given sufficient reason they can quit or moderate.

The alcoholic finds no matter how great the wish need or desire, he is unable to leave it entirely alone. At certain times, the thought of a drink enters the mind, shoves all the sound reasoning aside with some neat tidy excuse for taking one, and, here is the alcoholic clincher - HE HAS LITTLE CONTROL OF THE AMOUNT HE WILL TAKE once started. This loss of control is the earmark of real alcoholism, and though some of us at times felt we were regaining control, these periods, usually brief, are inevitably followed by still worse benders. No real alcoholic ever regains control.

Heard of a fellow 26 years sober, was on vacation in the sun, thought why not what could one dear margarita hurt from here...woke up SIX WEEKS later laying beside a lawnmower running.

AA is not something that you 'go to' although members do meet regularly and open the meetings so new guys can find them. It entails a way of thinking and living that rips the focus away from me and my traumas and conditions and grievances and excuses and owees and issues, and demands rigorous truth facing, payment of debt moral financial and otherwise, forgiveness and self sacrifice and devoted service to others. Self control self confidence, self discipline - these are of no use with alcoholism, they are a liability in fact. We couldn't wield them if we had em. AA teaches the willingness to try adopting an attitude of right reliance on that fabled and mysterious god creator entity presence thing - whatever our personal conception of it turns out to be, for our defense. Along with a few simple rules measures and tips, it's that easy to become sober.

The trouble lies in the willingness to adopt such measures Measures which "no alcoholic who is still drinking would dream of taking - unless he has to to stay alive himself". Most of us hoped against hope we were not real alcoholics. It is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker, that somehow, some day, he will be able to control and enjoy his drinking as he once did. By the time most of us come seriously around AA, those days are pretty well gone. We are facing total annihilation, insanity, lockup, death. The less people tolerate us the more we withdraw, faring forth only to find solace in charity, our hands out, usually for money lol...the dark chilling vapor which is loneliness sets in....we will wish for the end. Counselors love us So much endless material to work with

Cheers! There's a huge amount of fun in it...undisclosable in print...it is we ourselves who were making a hard go of life! Regards to Barleycorn Down Under!...i remember staring at him upside down....i know what he really looks like...lol

waynetheking

"Total abstinence is easier to maintain than perfect moderation"

Why bother with controlled drinking? It will NEVER WORK.
It's one of the great illusions of alcoholism. While you're busy at controlled drinking, it's slowly killing you without you having a clue as to what's going on.

Switch gears in your brain, don't even entertain the idea. It's flawed thinking.

aussie89

I think this is the issue right here, I've seen my Dad struggle all his life with drinking - simply and literally being unable to stop drinking once he started and only stopping when the 4L cask of $5.00 wine had finished.

I saw my Mum pledge to stop drinking, and to her credit was able to stop - for a maximum of one week. She drinks on average 4 glasses of wine over the course of a night.

I like to drink - I'll be honest - it's a good 'end of the day, watching television' enjoyable thing (like junk food).

However, I've never been able to not stop. I cannot relate to the feeling of 'I have had one drink - I couldn't possibly stop now'. I was always the designated driver when younger because drinking used to give me terrible headaches - not getting sloshed - literally one would trigger a migraine headache.

I was scared when I realised in hindsight how much I had been drinking, without thinking about it, and learning about the actual safe amounts to drink. I thought to myself, 'My Dad is an alcoholic, my Mum drinks every night and I am going to have a seizure if I stop' - I had a panic attack not about stopping drinking - but the health effects of stopping and I didn't think I could.

However, after spending a night counting my drinks and now having another one the day after - I could quite happily stop and that is what I will do.

I understand that many alcoholics could relate to certain aspects of what I've said - and only time will tell if my apathy about whether I have one drink or six will last. Everything I have read thus far supports the quote I highlighted from Cairn in that alcoholics are not like regular drinkers - they cannot stop irrespective of the harm being done to themselves or others. This honestly isn't me - I had a wake up call and I altered the amount I drink accordingly.

If this fails - I know which forum to come to. Thank you all for your help and I wish you all the best!

Mark

Dee74

Best wishes Mark

D

aussie89

Thanks for the good luck messages guys and gals. I will make sure to post an update in 90 days time to let you all know if controlled drinking can work for drinkers in high risk categories, who are not yet themselves convinced they are an 'alcoholic' being defined as somebody powerless over their addiction without continued support and therapy.

Dee74

Hey Mark - I meant my good luck wish, and I don't want to seem unwelcoming....but I have to be honest.

I think the least useful thing you could do for our members here is fan the hope that controlled drinking might be possible for them too.

Even if you do manage to keep to your generous limits for 90 days, the only real conclusions you can draw are for you - they are not necessarily applicable to anyone else.

It wasn't me for a lot of the years I drank either....but then I got worse.
This thing is progressive.

I think a far more telling experiment for you would be not to drink any alcohol at all for 90 days - I think that will reveal to you the precise nature of your relationship with alcohol - and in a far healthier manner?

D

sainos

I think only time will tell, if you want to continue to find the truth of whether you can exercise controlled drinking or not. I have wasted 15 years of my life trying controlled drinking, only to crash and burn at the end of each "experiment" (the other 5 years, I spent getting worse and worse until I thought of the brilliant excuse to keep drinking, which was "controlled drinking"
My son has a massive drink problem, he is in his 20s. When I nagged him so much he couldn't stand it, he stopped for a month to "prove he didn't" then went back at it twice as hard, and hasn't stopped since.
Best of luck in whatever you decide to do

tomsteve

maybe not an alcoholic, but it reads like typical addict behavior- switching drugs.

tomsteve

ummm, you typed above


However, after spending a night counting my drinks and now having another one the day after - I could quite happily stopand that is what i will do.

are you stopping all together or doing a controlled drinking experiment?
which you dont have to do an experiment that has already been done millions of times.

this is from a book published in 1939:
By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic.

terminal uniqueness is deadly

48heath

"The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death."

From the AA Big Book,says it all.

Controlled drinking never works in the long run.

Loekken

I believe I read it on this forum before as well, that only you should be able to determine the extent of your actual problem. If you're not an alcoholic maybe it's no problem to keep within your limit but it's a dangerous game.

aussie89

With all due respect, the vast majority of people who drink are not alcoholics and can control their drinking. It is the minority - 5% to 10% of the population who cannot drink without exceeding a level which classes them as an alcoholic.

I think to state that 'controlled drinking never works in the long term' is just as naive as stating 'controlled drinking works well for most people'.

Every person is different - every situation is different - hard and fast rules applied to every member of society is counterproductive to living a healthy lifestyle.

That's just my opinion and I admit I am probably in the wrong forum.

jaynie04

My mother-in-law owns a vineyard and she was telling a story about coming home after visiting her husband in the hospital and pouring a glass of wine. The story was about the fact that her dogs had taken the tv remote control (which was later found buried in the yard). But she related after searching fruitlessly for the remote she gave up, poured the wine down the sink and went to bed.

My reaction was what? You poured wine down the sink...not being able to find the remote would have made me drink more.

Having a problem with alcohol isn't really about amounts IMO, it is about your relationship with alcohol. I think that once you cross the line to a point where you are putting that type of effort into managing alcohol and your intake, it is already managing you. When I first got sober someone warned me about getting "stuck on the bridge". That is the awful place where your relationship with alcohol is a major factor in your life and you are constantly trying to figure out a way to drink and still have a life. People can spend a lifetime in this place, but if you have a problem it doesn't go away and trying to eek out amounts on something that is harming you is being a willing participant in this process.

I so did not want to be like one of the 10% of the world. But I am. But I am also lucky in that I am completely in control of whether alcohol takes me down. As long as drinking is an option at all for me, alcohol wins. But three years ago I decided to face the issue head on. Alcoholism is the affliction of wanting more. That nagging voice in the back of our minds really is the one that is telling us the truth. I hope you stay in touch with that voice and don't let alcohol drown it out.

advbike

Look, it's possible.. I controlled my drinking for years, decades even. I wanted to quit but couldn't because I've got anxiety, and shame. I could make 30 or 60 days.. then I'd go back to it under stress. But I'm super health conscious, and made it a priority to limit myself to 3-4 drinks an evening. Maybe I'm that 'hard drinker', not alcoholic.. who knows? It doesn't matter.

Because you know, at the end of the day, I was stuck anyway - life was passing me by, I was lonely, and I had many failed relationships - because I was self-medicating my emotions. Ultimately, I decided to quit, and when I did I realized much of my life has passed.. while I was *successfully* moderating my alcohol consumption. What a waste. It's so much better now. I hope you don't make the same mistake.

graced333

what is in a Drink that you want?

August252015

Whew. An awful lot of time and energy is being spent on this issue, Mark.

IMO....you could do so much more, in so many ways, if you just put down this cross.

We think you are on a fool's errand; perhaps we are wrong. I just don't wish greater pain, loss, or emotional brou ha ha on...anyone.

Good luck.

entropy1964

Hey Aussie

I think 48health is referring to alcoholics only, not the general population. I would rephrase it to say "It has not been my experience that alcoholics are able to successfully moderate their drinking over a protracted period of time".

48heath

Aussie 89,I see you are new to SR,welcome.

Non-Alcoholics do not have to control their drinking,end of.

You seem to be going to any lengths to prove to yourself that you can drink.I wish you well with it.

I have been sober over 13years and have lost count of those that I have known who have lost their lives to Alcoholism,it saddens me greatly when I read posts like yours.

MattM316

I've come to the conclusion that controlled drinking isn't possible for me either.

My main issue has always been with spirits (vodka/whiskey) or super strong cider (7.5% to 8%).
At one point I thought "I'll be fine if I just drink 'normal' lager and cider now and again", and technically that is true because if that was all I had ever drank then my problems wouldn't have got to the stage they did.

*But* I found that drinking 'normal' stuff just leads to the stronger stuff. Whether it's because it's not causing the right buzz, whether it's all psychological, I don't know, but I realised drinking any alcohol at all simply isn't a good idea for me.