Big Life Changes Support Group Part 3
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Omg, he really is hoarding. 
I can see that he is. He scours Craigslist daily. He collects pallet wood, there were empty metal drums, pieces and scraps of junk, it piles up. I have threatened and pleaded. He has gotten rid of some of it, but other stuff finds its way in...
His parents don't hoard. He hasn't mentioned anyone else in the family that hoards.
He does live in fear. He is constantly worried about someone breaking in, someone spying on us through computer cameras.
He had thousands saved at one time. It pains him to spend money. He controls all food purchases. He has extreme anxiety about spending money on food. It makes it hard for me because I used to love to cook. I have a huge collection of cookbooks that are useless to me now.
I had an alarm system installed because of his fear but it worried him so much that we were spending money on a monthly service he demanded I cancel it.
He will buy things in stores and return them because the anxiety of the purchase really bothers him.
It all totally disgusts me. I just want out of this hell.
I can see that he is. He scours Craigslist daily. He collects pallet wood, there were empty metal drums, pieces and scraps of junk, it piles up. I have threatened and pleaded. He has gotten rid of some of it, but other stuff finds its way in...
His parents don't hoard. He hasn't mentioned anyone else in the family that hoards.
He does live in fear. He is constantly worried about someone breaking in, someone spying on us through computer cameras.
He had thousands saved at one time. It pains him to spend money. He controls all food purchases. He has extreme anxiety about spending money on food. It makes it hard for me because I used to love to cook. I have a huge collection of cookbooks that are useless to me now.
I had an alarm system installed because of his fear but it worried him so much that we were spending money on a monthly service he demanded I cancel it.
He will buy things in stores and return them because the anxiety of the purchase really bothers him.
It all totally disgusts me. I just want out of this hell.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
EndGame, one more thing comes to mind.
You mentioned you thought it more likely I'd be the one to hoard...
Well, as a child I'd keep my room immaculate. I placed all my things in specific places and kept them in order. I placed them just so. I preferred order. And I'm sure it was because of life with an alcoholic mother, which was quite chaotic at times. No real big surprises there.
Ok, so I have always kept my things neatly, in specific locations. Everything has its place. Before Brian moved into this house, I knew where every single item was located. Every single one.
So you can imagine having clutter fill my home is ... maddening to me. What I've had to do is recreate the situation as before when I was a kid, I have my own bedroom, bathroom, and now, office. I had to fight him, over time, to keep him out of my areas. I only asked he not put the clutter in these three rooms.
I have managed mostly to keep him out. I do find fresh clutter piles, but I either move them, or ask him to remove them.
We are nearly opposites with our living environment.
The worst part of it (aside from the visual assault) is that now, I no longer have the luxury of knowing where all my items are located. He has ruined that system. And for me, that creates anxiety. It's a time-waster for me, and that really angers me.
We are fueling anxiety in one another.
You mentioned you thought it more likely I'd be the one to hoard...
Well, as a child I'd keep my room immaculate. I placed all my things in specific places and kept them in order. I placed them just so. I preferred order. And I'm sure it was because of life with an alcoholic mother, which was quite chaotic at times. No real big surprises there.
Ok, so I have always kept my things neatly, in specific locations. Everything has its place. Before Brian moved into this house, I knew where every single item was located. Every single one.
So you can imagine having clutter fill my home is ... maddening to me. What I've had to do is recreate the situation as before when I was a kid, I have my own bedroom, bathroom, and now, office. I had to fight him, over time, to keep him out of my areas. I only asked he not put the clutter in these three rooms.
I have managed mostly to keep him out. I do find fresh clutter piles, but I either move them, or ask him to remove them.
We are nearly opposites with our living environment.
The worst part of it (aside from the visual assault) is that now, I no longer have the luxury of knowing where all my items are located. He has ruined that system. And for me, that creates anxiety. It's a time-waster for me, and that really angers me.
We are fueling anxiety in one another.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by Anna 
Jennie, I think EndGame's comments are very accurate. Your husband is afraid. People who hoard live in fear and that's why they hoard. They don't have faith that things will be available if and when needed in the future. So, they hoard things and hold on tightly and their fear is enormous. (I have a close relative who is a hoarder). My observation is that giving up hoarding is as hard as giving up alcohol because the hoarder doesn't believe he can live without those things.
And, as EndGame said, I'm sure your husband senses your concerns about the state of the marriage and he is running around in circles trying to manage things. And, it's making everything worse.
And, as EndGame said, I'm sure your husband senses your concerns about the state of the marriage and he is running around in circles trying to manage things. And, it's making everything worse.
I actually feel sorry for him. This is awful.
I knew his parents hurt him very badly. I don't think he is conscious of it at all. It might be the few years his Dad struggled when Brian was a kid, but honestly, when I see them interact (nowadays on the phone because I refuse to be around his mother), when I hear them on the phone, it's like they live in this world they've created and they don't leave it. It is super scary. I knew right away, after the first meeting with his parents, something was just not right. They are terribly close-minded, out of touch, and reclusive. His mother was extremely insulting, to the point that it was hard for me to believe she wasn't being malicious. She seemed so unaffected by what she was saying though, that soon, I realized she had no clue how she was coming across. I asked Brian why they let her get away with it. I told him I could no longer be in the same room as there was no way I'd hold back any longer from speaking my mind. I gave her 2 years worth of my patience.
There's no validation whatsoever. Things are just ignored in that family. There's no regard for feelings. They are superficially polite and that's as far as it goes.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,600
Originally Posted by Soberpotamus
I am starting to wonder if my book collecting is hoarding??
I don't think it is. I really hope it's not.
I don't think it is. I really hope it's not.
Noooo, book hoarding is healthy and the exception. 
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Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
I confronted him just now. I told him I've contacted a counselor for us. I'm waiting on either a phone call or email to proceed.
I also told him I think he's hoarding and fearful about relinquishing these ... things ... piling up around and inside our home. I asked about the survivalist shows he watches online. He absolutely believes and stated we will run out of supplies one day ... the trucks that bring supplies, entire transportation systems across the country, will fail when the monetary system collapses. He believes the capitalistic system is eventually going to fail us.
None of this is new to me, but until now, I thought he was mostly just thinking about all this stuff. I didn't realize he believed it's imminent and likely to happen.
Given what he's said here, I don't see him being prepared at all for this kind of collapse. He doesn't even own a gun. I asked where is our bunker under the ground? Where's our months and months of food supply? He laughed and said that's where the survivalist shows come in ... he is learning how we can survive on foot, in the woods, carrying a tent and minimal supplies.
I asked why the piles of crap around here then? We can't carry that with us. He said it's just to sell on eBay. Ha!
I see lots of bs going on. None of it makes sense. These are elaborate stories to justify all manner of collecting.
I also told him I think he's hoarding and fearful about relinquishing these ... things ... piling up around and inside our home. I asked about the survivalist shows he watches online. He absolutely believes and stated we will run out of supplies one day ... the trucks that bring supplies, entire transportation systems across the country, will fail when the monetary system collapses. He believes the capitalistic system is eventually going to fail us.
None of this is new to me, but until now, I thought he was mostly just thinking about all this stuff. I didn't realize he believed it's imminent and likely to happen.
Given what he's said here, I don't see him being prepared at all for this kind of collapse. He doesn't even own a gun. I asked where is our bunker under the ground? Where's our months and months of food supply? He laughed and said that's where the survivalist shows come in ... he is learning how we can survive on foot, in the woods, carrying a tent and minimal supplies.
I asked why the piles of crap around here then? We can't carry that with us. He said it's just to sell on eBay. Ha!
I see lots of bs going on. None of it makes sense. These are elaborate stories to justify all manner of collecting.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: German Village, Columbus with my love ♥
Posts: 88,674
Originally Posted by Soberpotamus
First argument of the day. It's 10:30.
It was about dinnerware/dishes. He wants to buy some cheap dinnerware so that he doesn't feel uncomfortable with using our nice ones. He broke one plate a month ago, and we replaced it.
I told him that's not necessary. I saved a few mismatched plates that aren't as costly to replace. I went into the kitchen to show him which ones to use. He was infuriated I was 'teaching' him about plates. I said, no, I am just showing you so there is no question or confusion over which I am referring to. He was insulted.
So, I left the kitchen, came back to the office, and locked the door. Argument over.
For him, this argument is about nothing but money. He is angry we have expensive dinnerware in the cabinets, and that he is likely to drop and break another, and he doesn't want to replace it.
So, what do I do? Get rid of all the expensive dinnerware? Go get cheap, mismatched, old plates to replace them?
This is one of those weird arguments to me where I feel he is deliberately punishing me for something I did in the past (bought a nice set of dinnerware). I try and fix it but his fix doesn't make much sense (buy even more).
The compromise, in my opinion, is for him to only use the bird plates and polka-dotted plates and bowls I saved for 'extras.'
His arguments revolve around money, and the past.
I am still in the four-hour time block working/studying, and he knows this. He still thinks it's OK to interrupt and argue about plates. I think, next time, I will not come out of the office.
Note: Not posting to place blame. I want to start dissecting what exactly is going between us. I want to break in down into parts. If these are habit loops we're caught in, I can at least begin to identify cues, routines, and rewards going on. I have been applying this to break the shopping habit and it's working. It might work with some of our arguing.
It was about dinnerware/dishes. He wants to buy some cheap dinnerware so that he doesn't feel uncomfortable with using our nice ones. He broke one plate a month ago, and we replaced it.
I told him that's not necessary. I saved a few mismatched plates that aren't as costly to replace. I went into the kitchen to show him which ones to use. He was infuriated I was 'teaching' him about plates. I said, no, I am just showing you so there is no question or confusion over which I am referring to. He was insulted.
So, I left the kitchen, came back to the office, and locked the door. Argument over.
For him, this argument is about nothing but money. He is angry we have expensive dinnerware in the cabinets, and that he is likely to drop and break another, and he doesn't want to replace it.
So, what do I do? Get rid of all the expensive dinnerware? Go get cheap, mismatched, old plates to replace them?
This is one of those weird arguments to me where I feel he is deliberately punishing me for something I did in the past (bought a nice set of dinnerware). I try and fix it but his fix doesn't make much sense (buy even more).
The compromise, in my opinion, is for him to only use the bird plates and polka-dotted plates and bowls I saved for 'extras.'
His arguments revolve around money, and the past.
I am still in the four-hour time block working/studying, and he knows this. He still thinks it's OK to interrupt and argue about plates. I think, next time, I will not come out of the office.
Note: Not posting to place blame. I want to start dissecting what exactly is going between us. I want to break in down into parts. If these are habit loops we're caught in, I can at least begin to identify cues, routines, and rewards going on. I have been applying this to break the shopping habit and it's working. It might work with some of our arguing.
My dad would have said the same thing, many guys would I think....I feel that he is just trying to respect your things here, and doesn't want the guilt of damaging anything else.
We always had cheaper dishes to use for this reason while I was growing up; I think a lot of people might do this.
I know there are a lot of things to sort out between you love, and it makes all of these arguments so difficult.
Huge hugs. ♥
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Flat on my back utterly drained and depressed.
Suze, I agree. It seems normal. Its just that if you all could hear a recording or watch a video... the number of crazy requests, interruptions. He cant just let things be. Its always something. He comes home multiple times throughout the day to check on things.
Suze, I agree. It seems normal. Its just that if you all could hear a recording or watch a video... the number of crazy requests, interruptions. He cant just let things be. Its always something. He comes home multiple times throughout the day to check on things.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: German Village, Columbus with my love ♥
Posts: 88,674
It's a tough thing to live with.....OCD is hard on the person who has it as well as those around them for sure. I hope he is willing to get some help love ~ I so don't want you to be under all of this awful stress. ♥
♥
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
He thinks he has ADHD and shows hypochondria about food related symptoms, but at this point I am pretty certain it must be OCD, anxiety, and hoarding.
I set up an appointment with a doctor and the list he took was two pages long of these mysterious physical and mental symptoms. Maybe thats the anxiety manifesting.
I set up an appointment with a doctor and the list he took was two pages long of these mysterious physical and mental symptoms. Maybe thats the anxiety manifesting.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
He laughed at the suggestion it was hoarding. He is combative and cant wait to unload on the therapist about all my faults and flaws.
I really cant blame him for thinking its crazy. I thought it was just a clutter problem for a few years now.
I really cant blame him for thinking its crazy. I thought it was just a clutter problem for a few years now.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
I told him to read about hoarding. He became very angry, shouting in my face. I locked myself in the bedroom. We talked for a while through the door. He says I am hoarding books, clothes, and papers in my office. I do have a closet packed full of clothes. And books are overflowing a table and I have several bookcases full. Its true.
His clutter on the other hand is odd mixtures of personal items, household stuff, parts and pieces of things, napkins, bags, boxes, and so on. I trip going down the hallway over his stuff. It fills an entire extra bedroom. He has filled the entire two-car garage and we park outside. He has stuff piled up in a corner of the kitchen, and stuff outside behind the fence hidden out of sight.
Maybe he is right about me hoarding books, papers, and clothes? Recently I donated old clothes. Seems like that wouldnt be easy for a hoarder. My clothes closet is in order and looks great. My books do too. My papers are in file systems and stacked...not all over the place or scattered.
When he 'cleans' the garage he spends hours and days moving and rearranging, never throwing anything away.
I am seriously concerned now that I am hoarding some things too. That never crossed my mind.
His clutter on the other hand is odd mixtures of personal items, household stuff, parts and pieces of things, napkins, bags, boxes, and so on. I trip going down the hallway over his stuff. It fills an entire extra bedroom. He has filled the entire two-car garage and we park outside. He has stuff piled up in a corner of the kitchen, and stuff outside behind the fence hidden out of sight.
Maybe he is right about me hoarding books, papers, and clothes? Recently I donated old clothes. Seems like that wouldnt be easy for a hoarder. My clothes closet is in order and looks great. My books do too. My papers are in file systems and stacked...not all over the place or scattered.
When he 'cleans' the garage he spends hours and days moving and rearranging, never throwing anything away.
I am seriously concerned now that I am hoarding some things too. That never crossed my mind.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: German Village, Columbus with my love ♥
Posts: 88,674
J ~ just my opinion, but I don't think what you do is even vaguely hoarding. Not at all. I think it's wonderful that you are trying to look at this objectively, and see where it might not just be B...but I think it is.
I have someone very close to me who tells me that I am way too hard on myself.....I think perhaps you might be doing the same thing here my love. ♥
I have someone very close to me who tells me that I am way too hard on myself.....I think perhaps you might be doing the same thing here my love.
♥
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