Big Life Changes Support Group Part 3
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Anna, I don't see him being forgiving, no. He is holding onto everything. Even the drinking. He faults me for my liberal arts degrees, says they're useless. Compares me to his friends' wives who are nurses and have Masters degrees and such. He says that mine didn't translate into money. It's true. They didn't, but I am not finished yet. I am working on that. I don't make 50K a year writing. It just doesn't pay well, not the route I took with it anyway. It is really hard to design a writing business. It is not scalable. I am doing a job (writing articles weekly for clients), where I am trading time for money, still. Even though I work for myself, it's still a job. The way to make a business out of writing is to publish and for it to sell, over and over again. That's pretty much the way to scale writing and for it to pay off.
So, no, he isn't very forgiving. He holds onto these grievances.
The past drinking, the debt, the business endeavor that he criticizes.
He also blames me for going no-contact with what's left of my family. He goes back and forth on it. At times he gets it, but he doesn't really. He never knew my mom or grandmom. He has met my grandfather and father, so he at least got to see them in action. He has no concept of how my mother devastated me as a child.
So, no, he isn't very forgiving. He holds onto these grievances.
The past drinking, the debt, the business endeavor that he criticizes.
He also blames me for going no-contact with what's left of my family. He goes back and forth on it. At times he gets it, but he doesn't really. He never knew my mom or grandmom. He has met my grandfather and father, so he at least got to see them in action. He has no concept of how my mother devastated me as a child.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
No. It's unlikely that anything will change. But you and/or he may come away with a new perspective. And maybe even some clarity.
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. When you press your nose against a painting, all you see are rows and columns of colored dots. When you step back form it, you're able to better appreciate what you see.
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. When you press your nose against a painting, all you see are rows and columns of colored dots. When you step back form it, you're able to better appreciate what you see.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,476
Jennie, if he can't let go of the past, it's going to be so hard for you. I know none of us expect our husband/wife to forget things we've done, and I think we understand that it's hard for them to let go. But, I know, for me, I couldn't live like that, with the past being brought up again and again. By the way, I think you are doing amazingly well plotting your career move and taking steps to get there. Yes, you got off track with alcohol, but you are firmly back on track now and taking control.
And, as for the family issues, I totally get that. I am lucky that my husband knew my mother, dad and brother for years and he supported me when I stepped away. He doesn't, however, begin to understand what I went through as a child with my mother. I guess you had to be there.
And, as for the family issues, I totally get that. I am lucky that my husband knew my mother, dad and brother for years and he supported me when I stepped away. He doesn't, however, begin to understand what I went through as a child with my mother. I guess you had to be there.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: German Village, Columbus with my love ♥
Posts: 88,449
Originally Posted by Soberpotamus 
I know you all don't want to hear this nonsense and this amount of detail. But I am really struggling right now with our life. I just need to get it out there.
♥
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: German Village, Columbus with my love ♥
Posts: 88,449
Originally Posted by Anna
Jennie, when you described your husband 'taking' the grocery shopping away from you, I feel that's okay, BUT when he plays the passive-aggressive game of calling you and making you decide about quantities, etc, that is bad. Passive-aggressive behaviour is very difficult to live with or to change because the person exhibiting the behaviour will always pretend innocence and you can never win.
I love that you are seeing your husband's good points, and if he's an animal lover, that goes a long way. It seems that he is holding on to anger that you caused debt. Do you see a way for him to begin to let go of that? As you said, you are repaying the debt which is great.
I've been married for a long time and one thing I know is that you have to forgive and you have to compromise in marriage. I used to cringe every time I heard that word, usually during an argument. To me, compromise simply meant, that no one would be happy with the outcome. As you said, you are at a critical point in your life and you don't want to continue 'as is'. If the two of you sit down and discuss the issue of house-cleaning vs your writing/studying, could you come up with a solution? You've said that you both want to move to a cabin in the woods, so could you come up with a joint plan to make that happen that would work for both of you? When you are quiet with yourself, how do you see yourself moving forward in your life? Are you alone or are you with your husband?
I love that you are seeing your husband's good points, and if he's an animal lover, that goes a long way. It seems that he is holding on to anger that you caused debt. Do you see a way for him to begin to let go of that? As you said, you are repaying the debt which is great.
I've been married for a long time and one thing I know is that you have to forgive and you have to compromise in marriage. I used to cringe every time I heard that word, usually during an argument. To me, compromise simply meant, that no one would be happy with the outcome. As you said, you are at a critical point in your life and you don't want to continue 'as is'. If the two of you sit down and discuss the issue of house-cleaning vs your writing/studying, could you come up with a solution? You've said that you both want to move to a cabin in the woods, so could you come up with a joint plan to make that happen that would work for both of you? When you are quiet with yourself, how do you see yourself moving forward in your life? Are you alone or are you with your husband?
♥Oh Jennie ~ there is just so much wisdom in these words.....nothing else needed from me. Just love. We support you every step of the way, whatever you decide.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 1,972
I'm not going to voice an opinion since I do not want to get between a husband and wife.
However, I will point out two things that have helped me and my husband get through the rough spots of our marriage:
1) We make it a policy to each chip in to get the cooking, cleaning, repairing, and shopping done. We are both proactive about it. We do not wait for the other person to ask. We do not keep score.
We also pay others to do most of the yard work, some of the repairs, and a deep clean of the house every two weeks.
2) We are both quick to cut the other one off if that person tries to go down the "but you do this" road. We make sure we keep the argument focused on the matter at hand.
However, I will point out two things that have helped me and my husband get through the rough spots of our marriage:
1) We make it a policy to each chip in to get the cooking, cleaning, repairing, and shopping done. We are both proactive about it. We do not wait for the other person to ask. We do not keep score.
We also pay others to do most of the yard work, some of the repairs, and a deep clean of the house every two weeks.
2) We are both quick to cut the other one off if that person tries to go down the "but you do this" road. We make sure we keep the argument focused on the matter at hand.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
GHD, that does make sense. We do actually share all the chores. I think since he does 80% of the shopping he justifies that he shouldn't have to do 50% of the cleaning. Or something like that. He has said this before. He also believes that because he earns more he shouldn't have to shop, clean, or cook at all. He believes he should come home to an immaculate house (filled with his clutter), sit down to an elaborate meal, have sex for about an hour, and go to bed after a full body massage.
Over time, he has realized that is just not going to happen (on rare occasions, I have tried, but not all of these at once). And he is angry and resentful about it.
I mentioned having someone come into the house and clean. He won't allow it. He won't justify any extra expense, since we are paying off the debt.
It will be interesting to see what he does when my income finally matches his. Either his 'authority' and justifications will crumble, or he will scramble to find new ones.
Thanks, Gilmer.
Over time, he has realized that is just not going to happen (on rare occasions, I have tried, but not all of these at once). And he is angry and resentful about it.
I mentioned having someone come into the house and clean. He won't allow it. He won't justify any extra expense, since we are paying off the debt.
It will be interesting to see what he does when my income finally matches his. Either his 'authority' and justifications will crumble, or he will scramble to find new ones.
Thanks, Gilmer.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by Anna
By the way, I think you are doing amazingly well plotting your career move and taking steps to get there. Yes, you got off track with alcohol, but you are firmly back on track now and taking control.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
I woke later than usual (sinus headache still) and will be working my four-hour time block an hour and a half late. I don't like playing catch-up but there are no exceptions with the four-hour time block. See y'all soon (in four hours)...
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
First argument of the day. It's 10:30.
It was about dinnerware/dishes. He wants to buy some cheap dinnerware so that he doesn't feel uncomfortable with using our nice ones. He broke one plate a month ago, and we replaced it.
I told him that's not necessary. I saved a few mismatched plates that aren't as costly to replace. I went into the kitchen to show him which ones to use. He was infuriated I was 'teaching' him about plates. I said, no, I am just showing you so there is no question or confusion over which I am referring to. He was insulted.
So, I left the kitchen, came back to the office, and locked the door. Argument over.
For him, this argument is about nothing but money. He is angry we have expensive dinnerware in the cabinets, and that he is likely to drop and break another, and he doesn't want to replace it.
So, what do I do? Get rid of all the expensive dinnerware? Go get cheap, mismatched, old plates to replace them?
This is one of those weird arguments to me where I feel he is deliberately punishing me for something I did in the past (bought a nice set of dinnerware). I try and fix it but his fix doesn't make much sense (buy even more).
The compromise, in my opinion, is for him to only use the bird plates and polka-dotted plates and bowls I saved for 'extras.'
His arguments revolve around money, and the past.
I am still in the four-hour time block working/studying, and he knows this. He still thinks it's OK to interrupt and argue about plates. I think, next time, I will not come out of the office.
Note: Not posting to place blame. I want to start dissecting what exactly is going between us. I want to break in down into parts. If these are habit loops we're caught in, I can at least begin to identify cues, routines, and rewards going on. I have been applying this to break the shopping habit and it's working. It might work with some of our arguing.
It was about dinnerware/dishes. He wants to buy some cheap dinnerware so that he doesn't feel uncomfortable with using our nice ones. He broke one plate a month ago, and we replaced it.
I told him that's not necessary. I saved a few mismatched plates that aren't as costly to replace. I went into the kitchen to show him which ones to use. He was infuriated I was 'teaching' him about plates. I said, no, I am just showing you so there is no question or confusion over which I am referring to. He was insulted.
So, I left the kitchen, came back to the office, and locked the door. Argument over.
For him, this argument is about nothing but money. He is angry we have expensive dinnerware in the cabinets, and that he is likely to drop and break another, and he doesn't want to replace it.
So, what do I do? Get rid of all the expensive dinnerware? Go get cheap, mismatched, old plates to replace them?
This is one of those weird arguments to me where I feel he is deliberately punishing me for something I did in the past (bought a nice set of dinnerware). I try and fix it but his fix doesn't make much sense (buy even more).
The compromise, in my opinion, is for him to only use the bird plates and polka-dotted plates and bowls I saved for 'extras.'
His arguments revolve around money, and the past.
I am still in the four-hour time block working/studying, and he knows this. He still thinks it's OK to interrupt and argue about plates. I think, next time, I will not come out of the office.
Note: Not posting to place blame. I want to start dissecting what exactly is going between us. I want to break in down into parts. If these are habit loops we're caught in, I can at least begin to identify cues, routines, and rewards going on. I have been applying this to break the shopping habit and it's working. It might work with some of our arguing.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
The more I think about the habit application, the more I don't think it will work...
It will work for me, yes. But if I identify his habits (unlikely, since I'm not in his brain), what good will that do me?
I can only identify my own.
I think the solution in this case is to let him do whatever he wants with the dishes, and in the future, to not compromise my four-hour block unless it's an emergency.
It will work for me, yes. But if I identify his habits (unlikely, since I'm not in his brain), what good will that do me?
I can only identify my own.
I think the solution in this case is to let him do whatever he wants with the dishes, and in the future, to not compromise my four-hour block unless it's an emergency.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
EndGame, I searched online for counselors. Narrowed down to four, and then to one. Not sure the criteria I selected to search by is going to allow for much of a choice. Might have to reconsider my filters.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
Hmm. He may be irrational, but I say pick your battles. Lesser dinnerware is a small price to pay for his feeling that his input has been honored.
UPDATE: You posted at the same time! I'm glad you decided to give in to him on the cheap dishes.
UPDATE: You posted at the same time! I'm glad you decided to give in to him on the cheap dishes.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Sure, Gilmer, I agree, the dishes don't really matter. However, note ... there was no resolution. This is just an ongoing gripe or argument. He threw a fit so that he could bring up THE DISHES I spent money on, again. This isn't the first time. It's one of many. He came home for an early lunch, threw a fit, I went in there to discuss and he threw accusations. There was no rational discussion coming from his side.
I tried to reason and he threw it out the window, which is typical. No amount of reasoning works with him in times like this. It's not about the resolution for him.
If he wants other dishes, there is nothing stopping him from getting them. I have told him before to get whatever he wants.
I think what I am searching for is a way to stop this kind of argument before it gets out of hand. The thing I have not yet done consistently is to remain in the office with door locked. He inevitably succeeds in luring me out there to engage in the argument.
Further, I am wondering if he enjoys it. I think he enjoys twisting logic and reason so that whatever I say or do is unacceptable to him.
I tried to reason and he threw it out the window, which is typical. No amount of reasoning works with him in times like this. It's not about the resolution for him.
If he wants other dishes, there is nothing stopping him from getting them. I have told him before to get whatever he wants.
I think what I am searching for is a way to stop this kind of argument before it gets out of hand. The thing I have not yet done consistently is to remain in the office with door locked. He inevitably succeeds in luring me out there to engage in the argument.
Further, I am wondering if he enjoys it. I think he enjoys twisting logic and reason so that whatever I say or do is unacceptable to him.
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