sleepie

I am with you here, Cow. Lately, an infrequent few moments of piqued interest, maybe, that motivate me to action like making the piece I showed you recently Cow. But hopes? Nah, those are just expectations, which is just a nicer term for entitlement. Not a thing I've been privileged enough to be acquainted with. Which is rather ok to a point, I suppose as I think I am not an insufferable human to be around as a result of that. Few would understand. Those who do are usually fellow working classers with creative inclinations. Also rare.

sleepie

Although in your way I think you have a genuine love for life, your observations of the Hummies are an example. That's real life stuff to me, that's worth waking up for and you see that. I like your take on it, naming all the creatures and taking their triumphs and dramas to heart. It's very "Cow" in that way, it's a deep appreciation and connection I think.

Cow

One could certainly say I has more "appreciation" for the hummies lifes than my own, Sleepies. Which kind of pathetic, but, life what you make it, down in the well, right?

walkbeformakrun

Quote:

Originally Posted by courage2

The first time around getting sober, my husband had a bottle of vodka in the apartment, supposedly hidden but I knew where it was.

For many nights, at least once an evening I'd go secretly to check that it was there. Then I started secretly opening it and smelling it, sometimes a couple of times a night. I exercised tremendous willpower and didn't drink any of it, night after night, for months & months.

Wow!

Quote:

My willpower got me nowhere, because it was phoney willpower -- I was trying to go against something my deeper will desired. I had to get to a place where I completely internalized the belief that living (and dying) in active alcoholism is a terrible thing. No ambivalence. No need for willpower.

For me, I don't feel a huge threat of death or even dire consequences from continuing to drink. It is more just that I know it would be better if I don't than if I do. I'm not uncertain that it would be better to be sober, so I could say I'm not ambivalent. But then some moments I think, why is it better to not drink? Then it passes. If I'm on the pill.

Quote:

Are you immersed in your own real life?

Is this some new age hippy concept?

Seriously though, my life revolves around my children, my wife, my dogs and my work. I love them all. Is that what you mean Bunny?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obladi

Walk, I'm taking Antabuse as well and am somewhat torn about it. But I don't know why and I don't know why you should be either. I think it does the same thing for me that it does for you - it takes the option of drinking clean off the table.

Interesting you feel the same way.

Quote:

I actually came home tonight thinking about this and will probably go on a rant on my own thread, but here's the nugget of it for me: In order to stay sober, everyone needs something. Some people have their own internal commitment to self, some have a higher power, others are on probation and don't want to get caught, etc. Why is taking Antabuse any lere on pss of a good solution if it works? (I'm not asking you that, Walk any of the others. If you know why it's less good than I'm interested in your response too. )

Me too.

Quote:

I'm not saying it's a long-term solution - how can I know that?

Yes, I hear others saying its not a long term solution. I'm not sure I agree. I mean sure I want to get off it eventually. But if I can't and don't get off it then I think it might become my long term solution.

Quote:

Mox-nix (it's that how spelled?).

???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cow

Interesting you guys mostly vote on opposite side of what therapist advises about job. Anyways, I had phone interview and next is they gonna send some papers over for me to look at. Meanwhile, experiments to get up earlier is so far quite punishing. We shall see.

It may seem a lot less punishing when you are not doing it for practice but doing it for real. And doing it for real with a pay off/reward.

Quote:

Quote:

As depressive anhedonic, I not has lot of willpower, cuz, I not feel stuff like motivations and passions and hopefulness and determinations and love for life and all that. I only has kind of willpower that come from desperation after harrowing experiences with substances. And that not hold. It fade.

With respect to alcohol abuse, it is my albeit mild, negative consequences, that give me the will power to take the pill. The memory does fade for me too Cow. But repeated returns to the scene of the crime have hardened the memories more.

Quote:

If pill is safe, I not see any debate on whether to takes it. I mean, you has life-destroying deadly affliction. So if is pill to keep that in check, it just kind of be, well, stupid, to no take it, yes?

Jesus god! Now don't get insulting fatty!

[/QUOTE]

courage2

Re job, Cow -- consider this: What do you think is going on when alcoholic/addict spends a lot of mental energy fussing over a decision where one side of the coin, however attractive, puts their sobriety at risk, and the other protects it?

Interesting that a crucial "test" of this job is against your primary addiction, caffeine. Tests are really only amusing things to undergo when it's *not* an actual emergency.

Walk, will write later.

Cow

I really not sure which side of coin is which.

But you total right that caffeine will be front and center, in my face, and, (base on previous challenges), probable down my throat as soon as I not feeling like I got the energy/focus/creativity/spark to produce.

sleepie

I wonder Cow if maybe more work will come along that will be more agreeable to your needs and lifestyle. I mean you have been getting surprised with assignments and possibilities in that realm lately. Who knows, maybe 2016 will be a whole new Cow...

Speaking of which I was really feeling I'd made a grave error in becoming employed too soon. I got stressed out, I still make mistakes and at least one person is angry with me I'm just going to "Keepa go" as you say until I get fired. It will break my heart but that's what I decided to do.

At least I didn't feel like death for the 1st time in a week when I woke up today. I've been very lonely and anxious on my days off. I work all weekend so can't see any friends or anything. Then on my days off everyone else is working. I'm having that "I miss out on everything" feeling I used to get while I worked 2 jobs to pay off my student loans. Sigh... and I'm off to work again in 20 minutes.

Obladi

Progress!
No sarcasm intended; I'm really glad that things are going better for you. Farts and all. And I understand your own low expectations for your success right now because being hopeful is some sort of entitled behavior to which you are not entitled.

So I will be hopeful for you and keep it to myself.

silentrun

I may have posted this before??? It is Jon Stewart and Robin Williams talking about using and creative talent. Right about minute 5.

Robin Williams - Video Clip | Comedy Central

courage2

By being immersed in life... I just meant as a contrast to where I was before I quit drinking, which was entirely alienated from life.

When I quit drinking I had no friends and no hope, and more importantly, no concept of either. I still have trouble with both of those, but at least now I can conceive of them. I had relationships that mattered to me with no more than 3 people, one of whom died when I had 80 days sober. I didn't trust anyone, least of all myself, and with good reason. My work occasionally interested me, but because of alcohol I couldn't work effectively anymore. The delusion that I was a zombie felt like a mercy, and I was working on suicide plans.

Being involved with life is something really new to me. It still amazes me to be able to engage in conversation with another human being. To look at a manuscript and learn from it. To remember something I saw yesterday and relate it to something I see today. To plan for the future.

At virtually any minute of the day, because every minute of my old life was affected by drinking, I can close my eyes and think to myself, "this minute, this perception, whatever I'm doing now, wouldn't be possible without sobriety." I wouldn't be thinking what I'm writing you, without my sobriety. I would still be a depraved, desperate, deluded, lost soul -- or dead.

I know my experience isn't everyone's -- maybe not many people's. But it's all I can speak to. My own life repelled me. Being sober allows me to love life. Do you love life?

walkbeformakrun

I love life, love my life, think it is wonderful, that I am extraordinarily fortunate. And I hate life, feel it is a cruel joke perpetrated by some unfeeling force and I can't wait to be done and die. Often these feelings overlap and exist in me at the same time. I am rarely, if ever, ambivalent about life.

courage2

That's interesting. So far, in 2 years, I never hate life in sobriety. I feel bad sometimes, not infrequently, sometimes very bad indeed, but there's always a part of me that feels intensely -- what's the word? -- ecstatic (?) about the opportunity to feel anything. It's like I got a reprieve from a life sentence in "the hole."

courage2

Do you --anyone -- experience life differently as a sober person than as a drunk? Besides the physical change to not drinking, have you experienced any changes in perception or values?

Hawkeye13

I don't know if work is always "agreeable".
I mean, today I spent 12 hours working without a break.
I didn't feel like it--I'm still sick and would have preferred to be in bed
but I have bills to pay and that's my only option for cash as I'm
a bit long in the tooth to shake it on the street at this point

Courage make a good point about being engaged with life.
I'm not so much in the big things but really so in the little details of nature.
I fed my visiting Junkos (New Jersey ain't the only place that's got em Courage) sunflower seeds this morning as it was bitter cold
and stared at them with rapt pleasure while they hopped around with the Jays and Cardinals for half an hour at least--
I was almost in a trance loving that, but I had nothing but superficial engagements with the humans I work with today.

Maybe we just need to drop our expectations of what we like or don't like
and just deal with what happens and find the meaning in that?
Drinking for me was as much about wringing that bit of joy out of a long sucky day as it was hiding from pain.
Don't know where I'm going from this as I'm beat from this crushing day
and have another tomorrow, and the day after that, and so on.
Maybe somebody should just give me some money and I can give up
on the work thing and just chill.
But I'd no doubt find something wrong with that pretty quick too

Cow

I not present to life. At younger ages, I has been at certain times or during certain experiences, but for very (very) long time now, not sure I capable to ever get back there, and I tend to exist only inside my intellect. I has an actual life sitting outside me --friends and social opportunities and brothers and career things-- all that could be had, but I not really can care too much, cuz I so tired of playing Matrix and pretending any of it feel meaningful to me. Wonderful new friend I met never respond after I was honest about Star Childrens and I was sad, but then realize today, I had forget all about her.

**Maybe not listen to anything I says today cuz I has coffee again and total manic.**

Hawkeye13

Yeah, I can't seem to get out of my own head much either.
Tired is a good summitive word for it Cow

courage2

When I came in to the forum, one of my first signature lines was "You heavens, give me that patience, patience I need." Lear found it in the end, saying "So we'll live, and pray, and sing, and tell old tales, and laugh at gilded butterflies, and hear poor rogues talk of court news." The Crone Motel will be full of old 'uns feeding juncos and admiring their toes.

silentrun

I underwent a complete reboot. I told AO that it felt like the plates of the earth were shifting below my feet and bringing me back to center. It wasn't the world that was undergoing seismic changes, it was me. It happened in stages as I was able to handle them. At times I didn't feel able to handle it and had a few episodes of depersonalization. It is actually a good thing recovery takes as long as it does. Having someone undergo a paradigm shift all at once would probably wreck them.

Nothing has really changed in my life. I have the same job, same husband, same everything. Nothing has changed but nothing is what it used to be either,

Cow

Way I feel is, nothing in my life really need to be different, but for me. Alas, I still the same. Acutal not even the same, I diminishing. Maybe will reverse or change with sober time, or maybe is mostly physiological/aging. But it feel pretty insurmountable as is.

Good to be seeing you SR and to know things is better for you.

courage2

((cow))