I am not my Beast.
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Never thought I'd say this, but I would love to be a member of AA! I think it's a brilliant idea GT. Not only would it be a voice against the recovery group movement but it would also be against the alcohol industry and their constant bombardment of advertising and normalization of intoxication. Do you have ideas about how to get it up off the ground?
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Originally Posted by zenchaser 
Never thought I'd say this, but I would love to be a member of AA! I think it's a brilliant idea GT. Not only would it be a voice against the recovery group movement but it would also be against the alcohol industry and their constant bombardment of advertising and normalization of intoxication. Do you have ideas about how to get it up off the ground?
Well, there are a lot of possibilities.
I can imagine encouraging lots of people to report on when, why, and how they came to make a pledge of abstinence to never drink and never attend recovery groups. That would reveal its ubiquitousness all around us. (From my last post's Washington Post link we know that one out of three U.S. adults never drink, around 100 million people and I bet at least 10 million used to drink).
I can imagine using the I-C.A.R.D. concept. "Play the I-C.A.R.D." "I Cut And Ran Dry". You Can C.A.R.D. He Did C.A.R.D. Anyone Can C.A.R.D. "C.A.R.D. from the RGM/ATI". Or just "C.A.R.D." inside an oversized playing card shaped outline with the full four words and some link underneath. Maybe even arms and legs running drawn on the card. Etc, etc. Consider T-Shirts and Bumper stickers.
I'm not sure why, but this leads me to remember when I had my intake interview at an addiction outpatient clinic "a long, long time ago." This was several months after my last drink and at the behest of my DUI lawyer. The intake counselor was pretty fresh out of school but he hadn't had too much connection with the specialty of addiction counseling and he was not a former drinker/user. When I asked him how long was I going to have to be in AA, he told me kind of off-handedly "Oh, probably around five to ten years." In my naivete at the time it sounded and felt like a sentence, but when I innocently repeated it a week later to the program director in a group session, the poor fellow got canned before I could see him again. It didn't take me long to figure out he had given me too short a sentence than too long a one.
Anyway, after several decades away from the RGM/ATI and now almost five years frequenting SC here in SR, it just seems to come naturally to me that something like Abstainers Alliance should exist out there to help represent self-recovery and avowed non-drinkers especially since there are so many of us - millions upon millions upon millions!
GT
PS. and of course the Abstainers Alliance I imagine would never oppose the right of any adult to legally indulge in alcohol or pot if they so chose.
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If organized and presented properly , I'd imagine some segments of the insurance industry supporting such a campaign. The providers of the ATI would obviously fight it tooth and nail , but since the ramifications of ( here in the US) the ACA are being felt full force the time is probably ripe for some behind the scenes monied push, anyone know any insurance execs ? 
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It's so true though that people who are self recovered are often overlooked. They do it quietly and privately so unless they tell others then no one but themselves are aware. It would be interesting to draw these individuals out of the woodwork and find out some of the stories and be able to put self recovery out there as a realistic and probable outcome. I think it would be a very inspiring and hopeful message to those still suffering.
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Originally Posted by dwtbd
If organized and presented properly , I'd imagine some segments of the insurance industry supporting such a campaign. The providers of the ATI would obviously fight it tooth and nail , but since the ramifications of ( here in the US) the ACA are being felt full force the time is probably ripe for some behind the scenes monied push, anyone know any insurance execs ?
In today's market, it would seem health insurance companies would have the most interest in Abstainers Alliance.
It would be interesting to know what effect the opioid epidemic is having behind the locked door discussions within insurance companies about how they price their policies and screen the policy holders based on actuaries. And they must know from the drinker actuaries, that the one out of ten adults in the U.S. drinks, on average, more than ten drinks a day every day of the year. If that's not epidemic, then I don't know what is.
So, if Abstainers Alliance were to ever get off the ground, I think you are correct, dwtbd, that health and life insurance companies would be the natural funders, advertisers with the deepest pockets.
And as a grass roots movement, there could be other ways to finance it like crowd funding or marketing simple products like t-shirts and bumper stickers. There is a long history of promoting signing the pledge which often included a fancy certificate, or medal being given.
The way the RGM/ATI was supported/financed started with religion, then law, then medicine, then academic studies, and when it got to the point when the recovery/relapse/recovery Way-of-Life population was large enough, an industry grew alongside based on getting insurance and govt. to fund that Way Of Life with everything from 90 day lockup facilities to half-way housing real estate investors and all the jobs to keep it and everything in between afloat.
Besides making Abstainers Alliance immune from the RGM/ATI digestion machine, it would also need to be immune from the negative influence of people who lie about being the-rest-of-their-lifetime abstainers. The way to do that would be to emphasize that there is no way to prove that any given person will be abstinent for the rest of their lives but that we know that many millions are. I would consider calling this the manyVS.one duality of Abstainers Alliance, or the Quantum Principle of Abstainers Alliance. We know that scores of millions are permanently abstinent, but cannot prove whether any particular ONE person will remain abstinent.
GT
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine
... there is no way to prove that any given person will be abstinent for the rest of their lives but that we know that many millions are. I would consider calling this the manyVS.one duality of Abstainers Alliance, or the Quantum Principle of Abstainers Alliance. We know that scores of millions are permanently abstinent, but cannot prove whether any particular ONE person will remain abstinent.
GT
GT
And while this last statement could be a lie to anyone else, it can not be a lie to myself, because it is impossible for me to lie to myself. I have tried many, many times, but every time, I immediately know it is untrue, so it doesn't work. This is all true for anyone who takes the pledge because of the blatant in-your-face deliberative requirements of getting alcohol/drugs into the blood stream.
When I was "chemically dependent" I and my Beast were of one mind about drinking some more. I knew nothing about any separation technique. Years later, becoming "addicted" meant a new resistance to my Beast had been born, I knew I was doing wrong. But upon reflection, it's hard to see that "I was not my Beast" at that point. I was repeatedly caving into ITs deep pleasure seeking to see if there was any way to keep on drinking without it being morally reprehensible. There wasn't. So, I flipped sides and took an absolute stand against ever drinking again. With the Big Plan it's clear that I am not my Beast. And while no one else really knows if I will stay that way, I do.
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I think it's a really good idea. There are many abstainers here on SR from all over the place who could get the movement started in various cities. How about starting a thread for people to take the pledge? There's also social media pages and groups to spread the word, meet-up groups and FB for example. GT, you could write up the pledge and we could get copies to distribute to people who are interested where each of us who's on board lives. I would love to be a part of something like this.
My sister is an insurance agent for high end clients, not health, but she knows a lot about insurance. I'll run this idea by her tonight when she's here for Thanksgiving dinner. This is my first year ever cooking a turkey sober! Every other time I cooked a bird I always ended up burning myself in some way cuz I'd be drinking red wine all day in the kitchen. Bet I won't be burning myself this year! Haha.
My sister is an insurance agent for high end clients, not health, but she knows a lot about insurance. I'll run this idea by her tonight when she's here for Thanksgiving dinner. This is my first year ever cooking a turkey sober! Every other time I cooked a bird I always ended up burning myself in some way cuz I'd be drinking red wine all day in the kitchen. Bet I won't be burning myself this year! Haha.
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Re opioid epidemic
I've often thought a great consciousness raising , conversation starting PSA campaign would be one featuring a doctor /patient consultation where the doctor keeps confusing various opioid brand/trade names with heroine . The patient notices and the doctor apologizes and explains they are so similar he mixes them up , have the final shot be the doctor asking " so would you like to start on the heroine .. er..um ?"
I doubt any such spot would be produced or aired , the millions of doses being gobbled up have to be produced somewhere by someone with vested interests in keeping demand at the very least static .
I've often thought a great consciousness raising , conversation starting PSA campaign would be one featuring a doctor /patient consultation where the doctor keeps confusing various opioid brand/trade names with heroine . The patient notices and the doctor apologizes and explains they are so similar he mixes them up , have the final shot be the doctor asking " so would you like to start on the heroine .. er..um ?"
I doubt any such spot would be produced or aired , the millions of doses being gobbled up have to be produced somewhere by someone with vested interests in keeping demand at the very least static .
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Originally Posted by dwtbd
Re opioid epidemic
I've often thought a great consciousness raising , conversation starting PSA campaign would be one featuring a doctor /patient consultation where the doctor keeps confusing various opioid brand/trade names with heroine . The patient notices and the doctor apologizes and explains they are so similar he mixes them up , have the final shot be the doctor asking " so would you like to start on the heroine .. er..um ?"
I doubt any such spot would be produced or aired , the millions of doses being gobbled up have to be produced somewhere by someone with vested interests in keeping demand at the very least static .
I've often thought a great consciousness raising , conversation starting PSA campaign would be one featuring a doctor /patient consultation where the doctor keeps confusing various opioid brand/trade names with heroine . The patient notices and the doctor apologizes and explains they are so similar he mixes them up , have the final shot be the doctor asking " so would you like to start on the heroine .. er..um ?"
I doubt any such spot would be produced or aired , the millions of doses being gobbled up have to be produced somewhere by someone with vested interests in keeping demand at the very least static .
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I worked for many years in a store that sold only beer here in Ontario and easily 2/3's of our customers came in daily and often several times a day. Those were, not surprisingly, my worst years of alcoholism. I brought beer home from work every single day. It was a culture of alcoholism, the staff all drank regularly and we were surrounded by our customers who were predominately alcoholics. No one ever got disciplined for showing up hung right over, it was treated as a joke. We ordered the really high alcohol content beer by the skid and kept it right behind the door going into the back because it was our best selling, most popular beer. Over the years, I watched the regulars wither away, they got sicker and sicker, they'd lose mobility and make less and less sense. I saw people have seizures in the store. Quite a few of them died way too young. It was ugly. In my opinion alcohol is one of the worst drugs out there, it just ruins people, destroys the mind and body. The government and the manufacturers and the retail store/bars are well aware too, they will never do anything about it though because they make so much money off it in sales and tax.
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Zen, what a sad depiction of addiction and the legal alcohol supply industry. In the UK alcohol use is spiralling amongst teenage/twenty somethings. In city centres, they flock to the bars/clubs areas and later, so many pass out in the street that the hospital emergency departments were overwhelmed. The answer? Booze Buses, parked near the bars/clubs, staffed by paramedics. The police pick their strewn bodies up off the floor and escort the stupified drunken to the bus, where they're checked over, lain on their sides; or sat up, with sick bags hanging from their necks.
This sad scenario, is set against the backdrop of the clubs/bars, where the alcohol industry employ huge numbers of 'promotors' (scantily clad girls and men) who distribute seemingly endless samples of free drinks and shots on trays, as they mingle through the masses. It's simply legal drug pushing.
This sad scenario, is set against the backdrop of the clubs/bars, where the alcohol industry employ huge numbers of 'promotors' (scantily clad girls and men) who distribute seemingly endless samples of free drinks and shots on trays, as they mingle through the masses. It's simply legal drug pushing.
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Well, we tried Prohibition here in the U.S. That didn't go well, either.
I can't really fault the "Industry" because I drank. There is legal ice cream, too. I'm not 400 pounds. I mean, that just plays into the victim culture.
I don't think anyone benefits from placing the blame anywhere other than squarely on the shoulders of the ones lifting the drink to their mouth. They're the only ones who can do anything to stop it, anyway.
I can't really fault the "Industry" because I drank. There is legal ice cream, too. I'm not 400 pounds. I mean, that just plays into the victim culture.
I don't think anyone benefits from placing the blame anywhere other than squarely on the shoulders of the ones lifting the drink to their mouth. They're the only ones who can do anything to stop it, anyway.
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No. I was NOT blame placing. I was stating that the ravages of rapidly increasing addiction in the younger generation, are set against a backdrop of glamourisation of drinking. Akin to the tobacco industry of last century. In the UK tobacco advertising is now illegal, whereas, alcohol is not. The alcohol adverts are heavily glamourised/sexualised, to attract new imbibers. Why can't abstinence become 'cool'.
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GerandTwine was clearly not advocating Prohibtion.....
In my experience, addiction only occurs when there's ambilvalence i.e, the addicted person wants to stop drinking, at the same time as they desire to drink. If you read around Newcomers this is a commonality in that the new member that joins a site called Sober Recovery, ardently wishes to stop drinking, but find it initially difficult because part of them doesn't.
Without ambivalence, how can there be an addiction? I know lots of folks who drink, as a lifestyle choice, but they're not addicted, because they don't have that voice in their head saying "OMG I wish I could stop drinking, it's killing me, I'm so sick and tired of being sick and tired: ad nauseum". Everything (food included) in moderation....but once a line is crossed and addiction occurs, the attendant ambivalence sets in.
Originally Posted by GerandTwine
PS. and of course the Abstainers Alliance I imagine would never oppose the right of any adult to legally indulge in alcohol or pot if they so chose.
Without ambivalence, how can there be an addiction? I know lots of folks who drink, as a lifestyle choice, but they're not addicted, because they don't have that voice in their head saying "OMG I wish I could stop drinking, it's killing me, I'm so sick and tired of being sick and tired: ad nauseum". Everything (food included) in moderation....but once a line is crossed and addiction occurs, the attendant ambivalence sets in.
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Oh, I acknowledge your observation, Greenwood. Should've added that once ambilvalence sets in (want to stop/can't stop) the path to end addiction is within the addicted person's own power, unless they succumb to societal pressure that they don't have the power and instead need to rely upon spirituality and psychotropic drugs etc., for life. As I've said before, Sober Recovery is chock full of folks who've stopped their addiction under their own steam.
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I'm not suggesting prohibition or anything like that either. Personally, I think all drugs should be decriminalized, the war on drugs has been a big fat failure. I just think it's wrong that the alcohol industry and government are profiting off a huge part of the population being hooked on booze. Drink! Drink! Drink! But drink responsibly. What a joke.
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