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Take Your Pills

Old 04-29-2018, 03:42 AM
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Take Your Pills

It's a documentary on Netflix right now. Anyone seen it?

I knew Ritalin was a stimulant like speed from having a misspent youth and getting high with my friends off their prescriptions. Hell, I know mothers who occasionally get into their own kids scripts - get a little pep in their steps.

I was told with both of my boys when they were in the early grades that have ADHD. I didn't buy it for a second. I don't believe that not paying attention to something that bores you is a sign of dysfunction. I also think that the school system is not set up for boys, but that's a different topic. My oldest ended up getting tested for gifted and so he really was just plain bored, and my youngest suffered from a brain injury when he was little that left him with some motor skills problems - neither one has ADHD (whatever that actually means), yet the school and our Dr at the time were ready to put both of them on stimulants. Not to mention the family secret that their mother was a drunk who wasn't on top of things the way I should have been - I'm positive that was a major factor because those were my worst drinking years.

In the doc they talk about how the way they diagnose ADHD is by giving the patient Adderall or Ritalin, and if it works then they know the person has it. The thing is is that stimulants make everyone able to focus better - so they always work. How crazy is that?

It just speaks about how greedy these pharmaceutical companies are to be targeting children with this phony baloney diagnosis - they say 10% of kids, mostly boys, have this condition.

It's a really interesting documentary though, it goes into the history of pharma speed and how they used it during the WW2 and how house wives in the 60's were prescribed it to stay fit and slim. Worth the watch.

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Old 04-29-2018, 10:02 AM
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Over prescribing meds in general is a big problem in this country. It used to be that people just kinda dealt with things. It's called life. Now there is a pill for everything. Don't get me wrong, I'm Bi-Polar and being on the correct medication has made a huge difference in my life. However people are often prescribed anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication just because they are feeling a bit down or a little nervous.

Doctors are firmly in the pockets of big pharma. They have to report any cash or other gifts that they receive and you can easily find out how much your doctor receives with a simple google search. There are a number of sites that track this and I'm not sure if one is any better than the other, but it is interesting information.

ADHD diagnosis really is a problem. Oftentimes schools just don't want to deal with the more wild kids. It is just easier to get them medicated. ADHD is a real diagnosis, my nephew has it and meds have made his life much more manageable. He would have violent episodes where he would spit at the teacher and just tear up the room. He felt terrible about it when he calmed down, but just couldn't control himself. But when kids are given meds that they don't need, it gets them in the mindset that everyone needs meds to live and more likely to abuse them
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Old 04-29-2018, 12:28 PM
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I think it's interesting how the adults who take it describe it as performance enhancement. But children don't feel the same way and say it makes them feel funny and somewhere in adolescents that changes and they start to like it.
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Old 04-29-2018, 12:42 PM
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Thanks for the recommendation, I ll check it out
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Old 04-30-2018, 10:54 AM
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I always try to take these type of "documentaries" with a grain of salt. Certainly prescription meds are a problem, much more than they used to be too - but the whole "big pharma conspiracy theory" sometimes goes a bit over the top. I personally know many physicians, including my own, that are in the business of healthcare to help people and not just write prescriptions.

Certainly these types of things expose the bad seeds - and there are ( and always have been ) those types of people in any industry. But to throw out the whole medical profession and dissuade people from actually seeing a doctor is irresponsible IMHO.
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Old 04-30-2018, 11:37 AM
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I don't think it's a "big pharma conspiracy" that a lot of kids have been over-diagnosed with ADHD and are being given stimulants. Have you seen the documentary? It's about an epidemic of Adderall and Ritalin abuse, right on par with the opioid crisis, but not as talked about because people aren't dropping dead from it.

I haven't thrown out the whole medical profession or said anything about not seeing a Dr. I just don't buy that all these kids have a disorder, there's even a new one called ODD Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Maybe some of them do, but I still don't think it's right to give them these drugs. I mean what did people do in past generations?

Most of the documentary is about adults who take stimulants and how it makes them feel like they are performing better and that it adds to what they have to offer.
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Old 04-30-2018, 11:42 AM
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BillieJean1 View Post
I don't think it's a "big pharma conspiracy" that a lot of kids have been over-diagnosed with ADHD and are being given stimulants. .
I'm not suggesting that you personally think it's a conspiracy at all. I'm only suggesting that many documentaries like this one are biased. I work in the education field and see the issues you describe on a daily basis. I also know there are therapists and doctors who agree wholeheartedly that there are some who overprescribe. And it's not just kids and ADHD drugs - its every category of drug.

My fear is that these types of scare-tactic documentaries can make people fearful of seeing a doctor when they really need to. And I'm not singling this one out in that respect either.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:19 PM
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I agree. Anyone who needs to see a doctor should definitely go. I go see my Dr anytime I need to.

This doc wasn't a scare tactic type. It was very well done, in fact I got my kids to watch it and we talked about the issue. Netflix makes some really good documentaries.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:36 PM
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Your point about the mother not being on top of things in your OP is well taken too. I see so many parents these days who are just as guilty of wanting a magic pill or electronic device that can just take all the work out of parenting for them.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:07 PM
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OK, I'll jump in and say it is a big pharma conspiracy!! The large amount of money given to doctors (usually in the form of "speaking fees" or lavish vacations) is outrageous. These benefits go to the doctors who have the highest prescribe rates of a given pharmaceuticals. I have several friends who either work or have worked as pharma reps. They do say that these practices have been reigned in since the boom boom days of the 80's though the late 2000's.

I'm in no way saying all doctors do this or allow those perks to necessarily influence their prescribing a particular drug, but it DOES happen. I looked up my doctor on the website that logs what doctors were paid by pharma companies. He came back with $10 for the year. It was for pens and pads left by one of the reps! There is an official government site that tracks this information, should be easy enough to find with a quick Google search.

The other problem is that oftentimes the only information a doctor has about a drug is from the literature, recommendations fro m their rep and promotional videos provided by the pharmaceutical companies. Now this one is on the doctor, but they are usually overbooked and still need to have some kind of outside life too. I'll never forget the original promo video that went out for Oxycontin. It espoused all of it's virtues, including the FACT that it was not addictive! It was recommended for a variety of issues including minor backaches. There are others for ADHD meds that are basically the same thing.
You can find them on YouTube of you are interested.

So I guess maybe it is not a conspiracy, it is just a capitalist company using any and all options available to increase profits. It's the American way!!!
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:48 AM
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I agree with you tyler. I think it's loathsome how these pharma companies are allowed to directly market to people. I'm Canadian and we have different laws here about the practice, but I've still be exposed to the commercials from TV - it shows a complete lack of principles. It really is capitalism at its worst to be targeting children with a serious mind altering drug for a condition that is questionable in its authenticity.
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Old 05-05-2018, 02:47 PM
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So, this is just my experience.. I tried adderall when I was 16 and decided I wanted a prescription for it. It was extremely easy to get knowing the basics of how they diagnose ADD. Literally like a 10 minute visit with my regular doctor, no psychologist or psychiatrist. I know they've tightened up regulations on it since then but yeah I'd say it was a bit messed up. Also messed up how parents are so eager to give their children highly addictive "academic performance enhancers".. I have a lot of other opinions on this topic but will just stop there lol.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:28 AM
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There's always some kind of middle ground. I used to work in schools, and I've seen the problem. The bottom line issue seems to speak to a culture that wants a quick fix, and granted, some people need that quick fix. But lots of folks would do well to make a sincere effort at learning coping skills (diet, exercise, sleep hygiene, yoga, relaxation, mindfulness, ecotherapy, other therapies that include skills building, maybe even trauma therapies like EMDR...) before reaching for meds.

And yes, most schools are still designed on a 19th century factory model that was never all that effective for those at either end of the bell curve. Factory model schools teach to the middle and are designed for conformity and compliance. Those who struggle academically or behaviorally and those who are advanced tend not to get their needs met.

As adults we're faced with profit-motivated Big Pharma providing "solutions" for people in a profit-motivated capitalist system seeking to squeeze out of each employee the most productivity at the lowest cost. Some companies do better if they want long term and stable employees. Others prefer the burn and churn because when a higher paid employee leaves, a fresh one is waiting who is willing to work for less. This isn't true in all industries, but I've seen it in many, including education, by the way, which is part of the reason why teachers (not to mention parents) kind of like their kids medicated. But then, go figure, there's a teacher shortage... And a shortage of parents willing and able to effectively parent.. And a worker shortage in some of those other industries that lean toward burn and churn...
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BillieJean1 View Post
I agree with you tyler. I think it's loathsome how these pharma companies are allowed to directly market to people. I'm Canadian and we have different laws here about the practice, but I've still be exposed to the commercials from TV - it shows a complete lack of principles. It really is capitalism at its worst to be targeting children with a serious mind altering drug for a condition that is questionable in its authenticity.
So I work in schools as well. Often when I see what are typical symptoms of ADHD, I interpret that as chronic stress in the child. I don't think there is a conspiracy on the part of big pharma to medicate children and get rich doing it. I think, as of right now, this is society's answer to a silent epidemic, child hood trauma.

BillieJean, growing up in a household where both parents abused alcohol automatically puts your children at an increased risk of all sorts of physical and mental health problems. That's not to say they will suffer those things, just their risks are greatly increased. The brain develops in relation to it's environment, more so than any other organ. And you can't separate the body from the mind.

So I haven't watched the Netflix doc. But I'll make you a deal. I'll watch it, if you watch this four part talk by Gabor Mate on ADHD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qrefjmpvqs

We still might not agree with each other at the end of the day, but we'll both be better informed.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:30 AM
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I've heard before that ADD can mimic the signs of trauma and abuse in children. I believe it too and it makes me really sad. I will never be convinced that giving kids amphetamine is the answer. The doc Take Your Pills delves more into using Adderal and Ritalin for performance enhancement. The thing is is that these drugs make everyone feel like they are performing better, that's the effect of the drug. It makes the user more focused and alert, that's what speed does.

Like I said earlier, I was told with both my boys that they had ADD, and there was nothing wrong with them. It was me and their dad. I left their dad over abuse, yet they still see him all the time and have also been verbally abused by him. He also has substance abuse issues. At my house I'd been through some very hard times and became an alcoholic. I'm doing better now, but there is not a doubt in my mind that my behavior negatively affected them and that they acted it out at school. That was no reason for them to be medicated, other than to make it easier for the adults to deal with them. My boys are doing way better in every way that matters since I got my act together. I'm so glad that I didn't listen to the school and their psychologists and give my kids these pills. This is my personal experience of course, and I don't mean to speak to others experiences.

I've only watched the first segment of the video you shared so far. I don't have time for the rest today, but I'll watch it over the weekend. I think 2 things - first, not paying attention to something that one finds boring is not a sign of brain malfunction. Second, impulse control in children is very common because the frontal cortex of the brain isn't fully formed until the 20's.

Here's an article about ADD being misdiagnosed when it's trauma and abuse.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-adhd-050614#4

It also reminds me of the ACE study.

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Old 06-15-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
Your point about the mother not being on top of things in your OP is well taken too. I see so many parents these days who are just as guilty of wanting a magic pill or electronic device that can just take all the work out of parenting for them.
i think the stones had a song about this back in about '65,too.

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Old 06-15-2018, 06:03 PM
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I'm ADD but never took any kind of meds as a child or an adult and did OK. I'm also dyslexic and those tend to go hand in hand. I really can't pay attention sometimes, even to things I find interesting and I'm trying to pay attention to it. I'll just glass out and totally miss everything. It used to bug my wife but I got her to read up on some things and she gets it better now. I had good grades in school and really only ever had trouble with spelling. My teachers would always give me poor performance scores and I never understood how they came to that conclusion.
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:23 PM
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My rehab counselors had me look into ADHD. I found that the longer I was sober the more focus I had, despite any tendencies that I might have.
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