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Old 12-16-2014, 07:07 AM
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Interesting thing I read

This article discusses several of the things that have been issues for me in the past. It reaffirms my decision to declutter, focus on the solution, and move forward in life.
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Old 12-16-2014, 01:48 PM
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Maybe you'll share it with us someday. It's really hard to identify the link when it's part of your sentence.
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Old 12-16-2014, 01:58 PM
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I wonder if I'm engaging in this. Since the death of my daughter I have felt absolutely horrible with crushing depression. Can I think my way out of my sadness?
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Old 12-16-2014, 01:59 PM
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the part were it says
Perhaps this is because we often prefer feeling “something” rather than “nothing” – even if it happens to be a negative and painful experience

it quite a true thing that i have come to see, as i know today i am at my best when i feel nothing at all
that is the best place to be for me and one that has taken many years for me to come to see
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Old 12-16-2014, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MIRecovery View Post
I wonder if I'm engaging in this. Since the death of my daughter I have felt absolutely horrible with crushing depression. Can I think my way out of my sadness?
no you can not think your way out of it as it will be there for always, but time starts to heal
if you have other kids you will learn to focus on them even if you dont want to i know i have to as no one else will
there mum hasn't been part of the scene with my sons death and she is still drinking over it all

she goes around making out she is a heartbroken mother but the truth is she has not been anywhere near the kids in the last 9 years because of her drinking and lifestyle

but if anyone hears her story without knowing what has really gone on then they would be taken in because people would do that at the thought of losing a child

but i use her as a yardstick for my own recovery at least i am here doing the right things and putting the kids first
at least i was there 24 / 7 for my son all the way through his illness
and i am here today still sober wishing xmas would come and go fast but still going to try to make the other kids have a good time

so all i have to do is look at my ex and how she is living full of hate towards me and the kids as they choose me over her etc or thats how she sees it
its not like that at all they choose to be with a sober dad rather than a drunken mum

if she would sober up she would i hope start to build bridges again

anyway sorry i have gone off topic here a bit but no there is no way to think your way out of that type of pain

its only time and of course staying sober will start to heal small bits
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Old 12-16-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by trachemys View Post
Maybe you'll share it with us someday. It's really hard to identify the link when it's part of your sentence.
And here I thought I was being a hip old guy by using the link feature. Anyway, here it is: Do You Talk About Your Problems Too Much?
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Old 12-16-2014, 02:52 PM
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We most certainly can think our way out of sadness and depression, although I would never presume to advise a bereaved parent. That is so far out of my experience and out of the natural order of things. I am sorry for your loss.

Mindfulness is a very powerful cognitive tool, it was helpful to me in dealing with my depression and anxiety. I still use it often. It is like a mental vacation, and it is always available to me whenever I need it.
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Old 12-16-2014, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jazzfish View Post
And here I thought I was being a hip old guy by using the link feature. Anyway, here it is: Do You Talk About Your Problems Too Much?
I only found the link by randomly passing over it. Old Guy eyes, y'know?
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:59 PM
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no, Trach, not old guy eyes.
on my screen, the link showed up in blue and underlined as This article
which i'm assuming you can't see.


there are links posted to videos where i just see a blank post.

no rhyme or reason....well, no rhyme, anyway.
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:18 PM
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Good article. I think that many of us (especially on a recovery board) are going to find that we dwell on the negatives too often. I do my best to also share some happy and successful stories here, but sometimes I feel that it comes off as gloating. That said, I think we could use more "whistling in the dark" in our lives.

I think that as recovering alcoholics, we're all used to a high level of stress. Police visits. Hospital visits. Slamming doors. Heck, even my slow days as a drinker were considered eventful. Those around us, particularly our family and friends, might also have adjusted to a higher stress level when dealing with us. On top of that, we are no longer thick-skinned, we are worn down and raw and sensitive as hell. We have admitted (in one way or another) that we've lost the game with alcohol. We've tapped out. With all that in mind, I'm not surprised we're always anxious that the roof will cave in.

I was reading some psychology information recently about how simply changing your point of view and using different language goes a long way. For example: instead of saying we've "lost the game" with alcohol, we should say we've "figured it out" and have come out on top. That said, a lot of the language in the recovery community sternly warns against anyone feeling TOO proud of themselves. God forbid we become a little less humble about our accomplishments....

Hope I didn't go too far off track!
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bigsombrero View Post
I was reading some psychology information recently about how simply changing your point of view and using different language goes a long way. For example: instead of saying we've "lost the game" with alcohol, we should say we've "figured it out" and have come out on top. That said, a lot of the language in the recovery community sternly warns against anyone feeling TOO proud of themselves. God forbid we become a little less humble about our accomplishments....
I agree very strongly with this, bigsombrero. Consider the difference between 'I can't drink any more' and 'I reject alcohol and choose to be sober and achieve and attain what I am capable of'. The second is inspiring and uplifting, while the first is a negative statement that imposes a condition we may not be willing to accept.

I think too that positive self talk is empowering and liberating, precisely what is needed when leaving addiction. If we can congratulate ourselves, it is easier then to congratulate others on their successes. We can all do with a little more of that.
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
We most certainly can think our way out of sadness and depression.

Freshstart, I think you would do well to stick to your experience. There are types of depression that have a physiological basis and which need to be treated as a biological disorder. Telling a person with this sort of depression that they can think their way out of it is dangerous, and borders on giving medical advise. When a depressed person then fails to "think their way out of it" it becomes a blame the victim situation which can then further exacerbate their condition. A person with depression should be assessed by a qualified mental health professional and listen carefully to that persons recommendations for the proper course of treatment.
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Old 12-16-2014, 07:21 PM
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Thanks for the reminder, awuh, medical advice is properly left to medical professionals. Bringing that up as you have ensures that my message is not misunderstood. If anyone is suffering from anxiety or depression, please contact your family doctor. There is help and relief for you. It works - and that is my experience.

Cognitive therapy for depression is 'a well-established, highly effective, and lasting treatment for anxiety and depression' according to The Anxiety and Depression Association of America. As you have suggested, medication and complementary treatments form other aspects too.

There is much new information about different forms of cognitive therapy and how they are used in professional treatment of anxiety and depression. I've done the searching for you, awuh, as it seems you may be interested.

depression cognitive therapy - Google Scholar

This is one that is relevant to our discussion.

Thinking Your Way Out of Depression

'Blame the Victim' is an ugly and reprehensible practice, one which I feel we see too often in addiction treatment discussions.
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Old 12-16-2014, 07:58 PM
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No need to trouble yourself finding internet info freshstart. I'm quite aware of the variety of current treatments. Each has their place. The best course of treatment for any particular case of depression is best left to the treatment professional, and then only after a proper assessment, not to google.
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Old 12-17-2014, 12:47 AM
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Sorry for your loss MI,
It is common knowledge that grieving is a process which can be helped by talking, MI has stated that the depression felt is a direct result of the loss of a daughter and the pain related to that loss. Most therapeutic approaches are more about the relationship which is formed between the therapist and the client and more importantly the safe space which is provided to work through the difficulty. Talking about something like this certainly would not harm a person provided its done with a proper therapist. Getting assessed by a qualified mental health professional can often involve a person being prescribed medications which some people are opposed to, so I suppose it depends on which route one wishes to take. Either way from my own experience I know it helped me to talk and seek support when my own father passed away 4 years ago,, with time the loss and sometimes depression I felt began to ease and I moved through it.
The article jazzfish posted is more about people talking and focusing on the negative too much which I think is a separate issue . Examples of this can be seen in the treatment of addiction,, where groups of people sit around for years talking and focusing on the negative aspects of their drinking and drug use, rehashing it over and over. Other approaches just quit using the substance and the memories related to it and focus more on the present and getting on with living their life.
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Old 12-17-2014, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
We most certainly can think our way out of sadness and depression, although I would never presume to advise a bereaved parent. That is so far out of my experience and out of the natural order of things. I am sorry for your loss.

Mindfulness is a very powerful cognitive tool, it was helpful to me in dealing with my depression and anxiety. I still use it often. It is like a mental vacation, and it is always available to me whenever I need it.
no we can not think our way out of losing a child. you will have no idea what its like

not going to go into detail but you really have no idea
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Old 12-17-2014, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ando68 View Post
The article jazzfish posted is more about people talking and focusing on the negative too much which I think is a separate issue. Examples of this can be seen in the treatment of addiction,, where groups of people sit around for years talking and focusing on the negative aspects of their drinking and drug use, rehashing it over and over. Other approaches just quit using the substance and the memories related to it and focus more on the present and getting on with living their life.
ando68, this is exactly why I posted it. I had to take a big step back from the amount of time I was spending on "recovery" and think about why I wasn't getting better.

As far as depression from the loss of a child, it is really beyond me or the article to address. However, I have seen (not experienced personally) people benefit from being pulled back into regular activities after a reasonable grieving period. As a father, I cannot imagine the depth of grief and you have my deepest sympathies MIRecovery.
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:16 AM
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I have depression.
I have also suffered intense loss.
When my brother died, I actually had pain in my heart.
I thought I too would die.
I worried about my baby brother and wanted to shield him from pain.
I couldn't.
I was just thinking, while reading this thread, that the depression I have now is worse.
Grief is valid, real, justified.
There is no arguing with someone's right to grieve.
It does get better.
I remember at the time, my mother talked about their first baby more than my brother. The baby that died was not known to the world. There was no fanfare. She felt guilt. She said at the time that she had not spoken about her first baby enough. She felt guilt. Strange, but understandable.
Depression is a rotten, isolating place to be.
People get frustrated, bored and impatient with the depressed person, driving them further from the light.

I recently started a new job.
I had a medical.
I told them about the medical condition which is a guaranteed month off work, nothing.
Then, I told them about depression. Oh my! I was put through hoops!
They wanted a guarantee that I was able to do the job, medical records, notes from GP etc.
I had been in this job for six months with no sick time, no problems.
I felt under siege.
I told the doctor, I will NOT be providing any more info or details.
Pass me for the job or goodbye.
They did.
For anyone with depression, you know how that felt.
Humiliated, vulnerable, broken, tainted, etc.
Ok, I ramble.
For the depressed person, yes, I do actually have to force myself to go for a walk, call someone, meet up with people. It is a case of thinking/acting my way out of the doldrums.
For some, myself included, medication can be the jumpstart out of the "dead battery" stage.
I am considering taking something now.
Even the thought that I can take something and know what works for me, keeps me going.
Ok, done.
Thanks so much for this thread.
Let's be kind to one another.
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by desypete View Post
no we can not think our way out of losing a child. you will have no idea what its like

not going to go into detail but you really have no idea
Dude. It doesn't sound like you have read the whole thing.

I said
We most certainly can think our way out of sadness and depression, although I would never presume to advise a bereaved parent. That is so far out of my experience and out of the natural order of things. I am sorry for your loss.
Maybe you are are agreeing with me, and it is me that is missing the whole point?

Let's get back to Jazzfish's original point. The referenced article suggests
There’s a point where you can talk about your problems too much – and even become addicted to your negative experiences and emotions. A recent study shows how we can sometimes become addicted to negative emotions like grief and disappointment.
I think there is a tie in with how we deal with our addiction struggles.
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:29 AM
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Not to hijack the thread, but to those grieving the loss of a loved one, this is my all time favourite. Absolutely powerful. I bawl when I read it. Righteous, cleansing, cathartic cry your eyes out, snotty, sniffling, redfaced, red eyed, ugly cry sort of crying.

Funeral blues

Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.

Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He Is Dead,
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.

He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever: I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now: put out every one;
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood;
For nothing now can ever come to any good.

WH Auden, poet (1907 - 1973)
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