AVRT to cope with emotional binge eating
Realising my life
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dorset, England
Posts: 3,656
This is such a brilliant and fascinating thread 
Thank you!
I'm learning so much from all of you! You're teaching me about RR, about facing challenges, about deep, deep friendship and mutual support, but most of all about indomitable spirit and never, never giving up. I feel so privileged to be able to log on here for a daily dose of inspiration.
Thank you!I'm learning so much from all of you! You're teaching me about RR, about facing challenges, about deep, deep friendship and mutual support, but most of all about indomitable spirit and never, never giving up. I feel so privileged to be able to log on here for a daily dose of inspiration.
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
HeadLump, you are so welcome!
And thank you for such nice words - you've just gifted me a smile and happy moment.
And I am absolutely glad to see you posting here
Enjoy your day and see you later on the thread)
And thank you for such nice words - you've just gifted me a smile and happy moment.
And I am absolutely glad to see you posting here
Enjoy your day and see you later on the thread)
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by Jeni26 
So an AV doesn't exist before a decision has been made to quit?
People who are addicted to substances but do not want to stop do not hear it?
Do you not accept that some people are genetically predisposed to addiction? I guess that's what I meant by an addictive personality. Why is it that alcoholism runs in families? There can be little doubt of that. I never understood how, with all my negative feelings about drinking, I became an alcoholic too.
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Ok, pals.
Would you believe, but I skipped again my boxing class (I believe it's 2d time in 4 months, ). So, if not boxing I will kick some other things, preferably addictions.
The end of the day was not as good as the start.
Thought I am doing fine with "no sweets", overeating is still hard to beat.
I've scrupulously read and re-read the recent posts on the thread and here's what I think.
GT - I second Jeni. You confidence is amazing. Just no-nonsense approach to this.
I don't know why I keep having hard times with overreating. It's not binges any more, but not non-enomitonal eating either.
I re-read my Big Plan once more, made sure that all the words hit home, that I feel everything I've written about. But I still didn't get that "bulb moment".
Maybe, because it's not so easy to give a definition to a binge eating for me?
I mean - is 2 apples is ok, and 3 apples is binge eating?
How to draw borderline whether I eat dried fruits out of anxiety or I just having a break with a cup of tea enjoying the taste? I know, sometimes it's pretty straightforward. But, I am still learning to recognize and accept my feelings, and it's not as simple as that to detect it in a wink. And while I am "detecting" it, the Beast is already holding a big nice conversation with me, and I end up with overeating.
And it's also hard to say when I evolved with this thing to dependent - unlike wine it has its roots in early childhood.
Maybe, I am not fed up yet with the "degradation' caused by the habit - because there's no obvious degradation caused by it...
And it's hard for me to see differences between conditions B, C, and D in this case.
I feel like my mind starts reeling about that)
And I probably have I blond moment about this, but I didn't get this:
In Rational Recovery, addiction exists only when there is internal ambivalence, so an addictive personality would be one where a person is perpetually torn about all sorts of habituated behaviors they do. That just doesn't make sense to me, and would be a ridiculous way to imagine thinking of myself.
"perpetually torn about all sorts of habituated behaviors they do" - yep, that's me. I have habituated behaviors that were rooted in childhood and I can't still get rid of them "just like that" even though I am working on issues that are stand behind them. And I have behaviours that I developed later. And "earlier behaviours" contradict with "older ones". Ridiculous or not, but that's that way it is for me. Not funny, for sure.
Though, when I did this sugar detox and decided I am not eating any more cookies/sweets/processed sugar - it's more like with wine. Clear definition, no BS. Even shopping is getting easier - I just pass by "It's not for me".
So, I still don't understand what I miss about overeating -what is this "click" element of AVRT that I lack?
See you all later.
P.S. There are probably some technical issues with pics on the forum, so it is a temporary substitute for my avatar)
Would you believe, but I skipped again my boxing class (I believe it's 2d time in 4 months, ). So, if not boxing I will kick some other things, preferably addictions.
The end of the day was not as good as the start.
Thought I am doing fine with "no sweets", overeating is still hard to beat.
I've scrupulously read and re-read the recent posts on the thread and here's what I think.
GT - I second Jeni. You confidence is amazing. Just no-nonsense approach to this.
I don't know why I keep having hard times with overreating. It's not binges any more, but not non-enomitonal eating either.
I re-read my Big Plan once more, made sure that all the words hit home, that I feel everything I've written about. But I still didn't get that "bulb moment".
Maybe, because it's not so easy to give a definition to a binge eating for me?
I mean - is 2 apples is ok, and 3 apples is binge eating?
How to draw borderline whether I eat dried fruits out of anxiety or I just having a break with a cup of tea enjoying the taste? I know, sometimes it's pretty straightforward. But, I am still learning to recognize and accept my feelings, and it's not as simple as that to detect it in a wink. And while I am "detecting" it, the Beast is already holding a big nice conversation with me, and I end up with overeating.
And it's also hard to say when I evolved with this thing to dependent - unlike wine it has its roots in early childhood.
Maybe, I am not fed up yet with the "degradation' caused by the habit - because there's no obvious degradation caused by it...
And it's hard for me to see differences between conditions B, C, and D in this case.
I feel like my mind starts reeling about that)
And I probably have I blond moment about this, but I didn't get this:
In Rational Recovery, addiction exists only when there is internal ambivalence, so an addictive personality would be one where a person is perpetually torn about all sorts of habituated behaviors they do. That just doesn't make sense to me, and would be a ridiculous way to imagine thinking of myself.
"perpetually torn about all sorts of habituated behaviors they do" - yep, that's me. I have habituated behaviors that were rooted in childhood and I can't still get rid of them "just like that" even though I am working on issues that are stand behind them. And I have behaviours that I developed later. And "earlier behaviours" contradict with "older ones". Ridiculous or not, but that's that way it is for me. Not funny, for sure.
Though, when I did this sugar detox and decided I am not eating any more cookies/sweets/processed sugar - it's more like with wine. Clear definition, no BS. Even shopping is getting easier - I just pass by "It's not for me".
So, I still don't understand what I miss about overeating -what is this "click" element of AVRT that I lack?
See you all later.
P.S. There are probably some technical issues with pics on the forum, so it is a temporary substitute for my avatar)
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Oh, BTW - found a good article about food cravings
Food cravings engineered by industry - Health - CBC News
Food cravings engineered by industry - Health - CBC News
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
That's tricky MB. I understand that.
I don't know how to post a link but have you read 'Taming the feast beast'? They have a good model of how to approach this by using the four axes of a dietary Big Plan. It made a lot of sense to me.
Thanks GT. I probably have a lot more questions, but I will let you have a night off. Lol.
Headlump, thankyou. I've been posting on here so long, I forget its not just a private chat between me and MB! It's great when other people pop in, it reminds me I'm actually posting on the Internet!
I'm really tired tonight. It's been a long day and a hard working week. I am coping so much better than I was with stress, I'm not overly anxious but it is exhausting to be running on adrenaline all the time. Hey, I turned down a cake today..I'm really doing this thing (I ate my own body weight in chocolate, but that's another story...) the chocolate will be next...yes, beast you can whine, but this will happen when I'm good and ready for it...ha!
You're doing great MB...don't you forget it now! Xxx
I don't know how to post a link but have you read 'Taming the feast beast'? They have a good model of how to approach this by using the four axes of a dietary Big Plan. It made a lot of sense to me.
Thanks GT. I probably have a lot more questions, but I will let you have a night off. Lol.
Headlump, thankyou. I've been posting on here so long, I forget its not just a private chat between me and MB! It's great when other people pop in, it reminds me I'm actually posting on the Internet!
I'm really tired tonight. It's been a long day and a hard working week. I am coping so much better than I was with stress, I'm not overly anxious but it is exhausting to be running on adrenaline all the time. Hey, I turned down a cake today..I'm really doing this thing (I ate my own body weight in chocolate, but that's another story...) the chocolate will be next...yes, beast you can whine, but this will happen when I'm good and ready for it...ha!
You're doing great MB...don't you forget it now! Xxx
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 1,344
Food addictions are difficult, we have to learn moderation – we do not have other options.
With alcohol and cigarettes we can just stop, we do not need to moderate.
Food should be a pleasure, we should eat good food and enjoy it – but it can of course move on to becoming comfort, bad habit or even torture/self punishment.
I have difficulty wrapping RR thinking around that because we kind of want the “beast” - we just want it to behave?
With alcohol and cigarettes we can just stop, we do not need to moderate.
Food should be a pleasure, we should eat good food and enjoy it – but it can of course move on to becoming comfort, bad habit or even torture/self punishment.
I have difficulty wrapping RR thinking around that because we kind of want the “beast” - we just want it to behave?
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
MB, I wasn't expecting anyone to claim my description of what I thought addictive personality would mean in RR terms, but thanks for reading what I wrote and understanding it so well. I believe we each have the ability to change our self-image as it might be influenced by our habits. For me, this does involve my personal morality. It feels like I keep getting more understanding as to why Jack Trimpey titled his latest book "The Art of AVRT". The Technique does have an artistry to it when I view it alongside all the things going on in my life that take real time and effort. For me the goal of AVRT is for it to take virtually no time or effort. So, with that in mind, I believe it's possible to use AVRT on as many different addictions as one chooses, and down the road, the time and effort spent on the technique will STILL be an insignificant part of one's real life.
Great article on food and the industry at the link you posted. Thanks. I forwarded it to my wife. She's helps me on my fluctuating food choice boundaries, except for sugar, of course. I do that easily alone, and she admires that a little bit. I keep my salt intake lower than before, now, too.
Jeni, your mention of the four axes of a dietary Big Plan makes sense: TAPS for the Beast. Food is such a necessary and broad area of habituated behavior that it does make sense for someone to be as thorough as the food industry itself in figuring out when (T), how much (A), where (P), and what (S) they ought to eat.
Also, I know the food industry is less concerned about my health than I am.
A good number of years ago, I thought that eating meat might be a bad habit, so I became vegetarian for about six months. I didn't use AVRT because I knew it was just an experiment. I now eat meat, but with about 1/2 the fat than I used to before the experiment.
Processed foods are the sort of "S" I can imagine someone eliminating from their diet. I don't know enough about what is and isn't processed food. But the more I reflect upon it just now, processed foods ARE the sort of S I might stop eating using AVRT. I think I'll talk about it with my wife tonight.
Great article on food and the industry at the link you posted. Thanks. I forwarded it to my wife. She's helps me on my fluctuating food choice boundaries, except for sugar, of course. I do that easily alone, and she admires that a little bit. I keep my salt intake lower than before, now, too.
Jeni, your mention of the four axes of a dietary Big Plan makes sense: TAPS for the Beast. Food is such a necessary and broad area of habituated behavior that it does make sense for someone to be as thorough as the food industry itself in figuring out when (T), how much (A), where (P), and what (S) they ought to eat.
Also, I know the food industry is less concerned about my health than I am.
A good number of years ago, I thought that eating meat might be a bad habit, so I became vegetarian for about six months. I didn't use AVRT because I knew it was just an experiment. I now eat meat, but with about 1/2 the fat than I used to before the experiment.
Processed foods are the sort of "S" I can imagine someone eliminating from their diet. I don't know enough about what is and isn't processed food. But the more I reflect upon it just now, processed foods ARE the sort of S I might stop eating using AVRT. I think I'll talk about it with my wife tonight.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
Hi Soberhawk...yes, you are right. It isn't as simple as just giving it up. MB and I are getting our heads round this, welcome x
Up at 5 am on a Saturday...off to visit a potential uni for our daughter. I'm hoping H will drive so I can sleep in the car.
I'm going to think about this teeny little addiction I have to chocolate...just play with the idea in my mind and listen for the beast....
Have a good day everyone x
Up at 5 am on a Saturday...off to visit a potential uni for our daughter. I'm hoping H will drive so I can sleep in the car.
I'm going to think about this teeny little addiction I have to chocolate...just play with the idea in my mind and listen for the beast....
Have a good day everyone x
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Hi, pals.
I've been thinking about our discussions here today and have a lot to say, so I think I'll write about it in two parts to have some time to take care of other things too)
Back from boxing. Doing sparring quite regularly now, and today missed a really good jab from a guy. Darn, it was tough. Now all the defence technique hits home).
I am doing good today. I wanted to write "so far", but then decided "what the heck". I am doing good today. Period.
I think that my "work in progress" definition of binge eating will be as folloes: when I eat more than I planned. You know, I am quite good wiht meals planning. Even when I was working kind of 18 hours a day and - leavign home at 6. a.m. and getting back at 11 p.m,. , I still made my meals for the next day and dragged bunch of lunch boxes with me.
If I could plan my meals a week ahead back when I was juggling two jobs, additional educaiton, workouts and break-up with my ex, I believe no excuses I can't do it now, right?
The craziest thing which currently often messes up with my planning is AV that keeps telling me that I am 'cranky' planning meals ahead, counting calories, etc. That I am obsessed with it, that "normal" people don't do this. Stupid jerk comes out with some pathetic rationalization.
So, even when I am having a tea/coffe break a certain amount of, say fruit/dried fruit/homemade pancakes (I made my "fitness" pancakes with grounded oats, banana, eggs and cinnamon) should be enough to satisfy/indulge me. Anything that goes beyond - overeating/benge eating.
And when I was rereading my Big Plan yesterday certain lines hit home more than they did 5 months ago. I belive that's because druing this time I've been working on a lot of underlining issues.
And I ask myself, "How bad (depressed, anxious, bored, angry, etc.) am I willing to get and still not go on binge eating to cope with my stress, anxiety, depression and other things that upset me and push out of my comfort zone"?
- "As bad as I only can feel. As anxious as I can be anxious because then I can cope with it instead of running from it. I can get to the root of the problem that stands behind exciete and eliminate it. And no addiction can help to solve this problem. Addiction is a problem itself.
Yes, I can get to the root of this. Because when I am anxious and automatically run to the fridge - it's a sign I can get to the root of the problem whie, being laying low, hiding and slowly undermining my thinking, not pops up to the surface where it can be caught, spotted, caged , examined and finally eliminated. And now I am strong enough to face ANY issue or problem.
And instead of running and "stuffing myself" away I can sit quietly, in total silence. Yes, being anxious and even scared, but making full contact with a problem and bringing it to the light, and dealing with it, and finding a solution.
And that's what really makes difference now.
I am going to make a list of the "most petrifing issues" today and call them into "phsyco ring" every time they push me to overeating.
I remember my boxing trainer told me when he just started doing boxing himself, as a teenager, other guys, more experienced, pummelled him really hard. He bore pain and kept boxing. After a while he gained enough skills and strength, and started to win over them. Well, I've done enough work to make my problems run for their money.
Though AVRT presumes no effort in turning down the Beast, I know it will require enough efforts to fight issues that serve as the prime mover for overeating. Like the Beast is the fog the blurs my vision - I can easily walk through it, and then my real rival waits me there.
GT - I do love the way you deal with addicitions, so, that's why I am so eager to get to the heart of your "bulb moment".
I do want to understand how you've reached that level of confidence where you just say:
And I undertand what you say about ambivalence and behaviour, I just don't know YET how to deal with it.
Great article, I agree. And I love this "market share in my stomach" - I think it will help me not to buy crunchy and salty food.
Jeni - have a great day today! Hope, you'll get some sleep while on the ride.
Soberhawk - glad you stopped by to post. Welcome)
Headlump - hi to you)
LifeRecovery - Hi to you to)
See you later, pals.
I've been thinking about our discussions here today and have a lot to say, so I think I'll write about it in two parts to have some time to take care of other things too)
Back from boxing. Doing sparring quite regularly now, and today missed a really good jab from a guy. Darn, it was tough. Now all the defence technique hits home).
I am doing good today. I wanted to write "so far", but then decided "what the heck". I am doing good today. Period.
I think that my "work in progress" definition of binge eating will be as folloes: when I eat more than I planned. You know, I am quite good wiht meals planning. Even when I was working kind of 18 hours a day and - leavign home at 6. a.m. and getting back at 11 p.m,. , I still made my meals for the next day and dragged bunch of lunch boxes with me.
If I could plan my meals a week ahead back when I was juggling two jobs, additional educaiton, workouts and break-up with my ex, I believe no excuses I can't do it now, right?
The craziest thing which currently often messes up with my planning is AV that keeps telling me that I am 'cranky' planning meals ahead, counting calories, etc. That I am obsessed with it, that "normal" people don't do this. Stupid jerk comes out with some pathetic rationalization.
So, even when I am having a tea/coffe break a certain amount of, say fruit/dried fruit/homemade pancakes (I made my "fitness" pancakes with grounded oats, banana, eggs and cinnamon) should be enough to satisfy/indulge me. Anything that goes beyond - overeating/benge eating.
And when I was rereading my Big Plan yesterday certain lines hit home more than they did 5 months ago. I belive that's because druing this time I've been working on a lot of underlining issues.
And I ask myself, "How bad (depressed, anxious, bored, angry, etc.) am I willing to get and still not go on binge eating to cope with my stress, anxiety, depression and other things that upset me and push out of my comfort zone"?
- "As bad as I only can feel. As anxious as I can be anxious because then I can cope with it instead of running from it. I can get to the root of the problem that stands behind exciete and eliminate it. And no addiction can help to solve this problem. Addiction is a problem itself.
Yes, I can get to the root of this. Because when I am anxious and automatically run to the fridge - it's a sign I can get to the root of the problem whie, being laying low, hiding and slowly undermining my thinking, not pops up to the surface where it can be caught, spotted, caged , examined and finally eliminated. And now I am strong enough to face ANY issue or problem.
And instead of running and "stuffing myself" away I can sit quietly, in total silence. Yes, being anxious and even scared, but making full contact with a problem and bringing it to the light, and dealing with it, and finding a solution.
And that's what really makes difference now.
I am going to make a list of the "most petrifing issues" today and call them into "phsyco ring" every time they push me to overeating.
I remember my boxing trainer told me when he just started doing boxing himself, as a teenager, other guys, more experienced, pummelled him really hard. He bore pain and kept boxing. After a while he gained enough skills and strength, and started to win over them. Well, I've done enough work to make my problems run for their money.
Though AVRT presumes no effort in turning down the Beast, I know it will require enough efforts to fight issues that serve as the prime mover for overeating. Like the Beast is the fog the blurs my vision - I can easily walk through it, and then my real rival waits me there.
GT - I do love the way you deal with addicitions, so, that's why I am so eager to get to the heart of your "bulb moment".
I do want to understand how you've reached that level of confidence where you just say:
Originally Posted by GerandTwine
None of my 3 AVs are at ease anywhere, at any time, within any thinking or feeling I have.
After labeling each of them, they have been forever after completely ill-at-ease at all times. No matter what mood I'm in,
After labeling each of them, they have been forever after completely ill-at-ease at all times. No matter what mood I'm in,
Great article, I agree. And I love this "market share in my stomach" - I think it will help me not to buy crunchy and salty food.
Jeni - have a great day today! Hope, you'll get some sleep while on the ride.
Soberhawk - glad you stopped by to post. Welcome)
Headlump - hi to you)
LifeRecovery - Hi to you to)
See you later, pals.
Realising my life
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dorset, England
Posts: 3,656
Hi all
I am using AVRT to deal with an eating disorder and last night I made my BP (Big Plan) or should that be my BBP (Big Badass Plan)?
I am never going to binge eat (and therefore never purge) again and I will never change my mind
I was interested in seeing your working definition of 'bingeing', Midnight. For me, a binge is where I eat more than a 'normal' person would. I know that's a broad definition but I know in my heart when I'm bingeing and when I'm not (sorry, when I used to binge....) and I will never binge again.
To help me, I've ordered a book from Amazon, Flicking the Switch: Freedom from Bulimia. It's due to arrive early next week. If you're interested, I'll let you know of any insights I glean!
I felt a real feeling of calm and confidence as soon as I'd made my plan and it's persisting today, even though I've been out for a meal and had a generous dessert! Normally, that would be a trigger which would send me to hell for the rest of the day, but, no, I've told the AV to shut up - normal people eat dessert and that is all I've done. It can't lead to a binge because I don't binge any more. Period.
I'm looking forward to discovering the new me. Bring it on!!
I am using AVRT to deal with an eating disorder and last night I made my BP (Big Plan) or should that be my BBP (Big Badass Plan)?
I am never going to binge eat (and therefore never purge) again and I will never change my mind
I was interested in seeing your working definition of 'bingeing', Midnight. For me, a binge is where I eat more than a 'normal' person would. I know that's a broad definition but I know in my heart when I'm bingeing and when I'm not (sorry, when I used to binge....) and I will never binge again.
To help me, I've ordered a book from Amazon, Flicking the Switch: Freedom from Bulimia. It's due to arrive early next week. If you're interested, I'll let you know of any insights I glean!
I felt a real feeling of calm and confidence as soon as I'd made my plan and it's persisting today, even though I've been out for a meal and had a generous dessert! Normally, that would be a trigger which would send me to hell for the rest of the day, but, no, I've told the AV to shut up - normal people eat dessert and that is all I've done. It can't lead to a binge because I don't binge any more. Period.
I'm looking forward to discovering the new me. Bring it on!!
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Hey, Headlump!
Congrats on making the Big Plan!
Big Badass Plan - I just love it!
I'd appreciate insight from the book)
Glad you had a nice lunch out and enjoyed it!
See you later)
Congrats on making the Big Plan!
Big Badass Plan - I just love it!
I'd appreciate insight from the book)
Glad you had a nice lunch out and enjoyed it!
See you later)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
MB-that was a great post, thank you for sharing. I always need to re-read your posts several times to gain the most from them.
One thing that really stuck out for me was when you said your AV gives you a hard time for planning ahead to what you will be eating. It made me think about my own situation. I have to plan the weeks meals because I work long days, am out the house from 6.30 am to 7 pm at least, my H works shifts including night and weekend work and my kids are out at college/work and also frequently out in the evenings with social and sporting activities. A busy family life means that unless we communicate and plan ahead, no-one would eat! The times when this falls down...and it does if I have a succession of very late nights, that's the time when my eating goes very wrong. I grab anything to keep me going...and it's never the good stuff. No, planning has got to be key. When I think what planning went into my drinking, I think I can put a bit of effort into planning to eat properly!
HeadLump-GREAT Big Plan. Make sure that AV doesn't try and re-write what constitutes a binge...it thinks its clever but we know better don't we?! Great to have you on board. Stick with us.
I've had a busy day, just settling down for an evening and reflecting on this thing with chocolate. This has got to be the big one as regards my eating. The cakes/cookies/ice cream have gone, but chocolate has been my comfort food since I was very little. This is going to sound weird but some of my earliest memories were of me stealing it, STEALING it..from home and even from shops. I got caught once and was frog-marched to my parents and that didn't lead to anywhere good! I had lots of very very unhappy times as a kid and chocolate has always been my friend. I'm aware this sounds ridiculous and over-dramatic from someone my age, but I'm going to find this difficult. Maybe even more so than the smoking. But, it's time....
As from today, I will not eat chocolate again. I will never change my mind. That's all there is to say. Gulp.
One thing that really stuck out for me was when you said your AV gives you a hard time for planning ahead to what you will be eating. It made me think about my own situation. I have to plan the weeks meals because I work long days, am out the house from 6.30 am to 7 pm at least, my H works shifts including night and weekend work and my kids are out at college/work and also frequently out in the evenings with social and sporting activities. A busy family life means that unless we communicate and plan ahead, no-one would eat! The times when this falls down...and it does if I have a succession of very late nights, that's the time when my eating goes very wrong. I grab anything to keep me going...and it's never the good stuff. No, planning has got to be key. When I think what planning went into my drinking, I think I can put a bit of effort into planning to eat properly!
HeadLump-GREAT Big Plan. Make sure that AV doesn't try and re-write what constitutes a binge...it thinks its clever but we know better don't we?! Great to have you on board. Stick with us.
I've had a busy day, just settling down for an evening and reflecting on this thing with chocolate. This has got to be the big one as regards my eating. The cakes/cookies/ice cream have gone, but chocolate has been my comfort food since I was very little. This is going to sound weird but some of my earliest memories were of me stealing it, STEALING it..from home and even from shops. I got caught once and was frog-marched to my parents and that didn't lead to anywhere good! I had lots of very very unhappy times as a kid and chocolate has always been my friend. I'm aware this sounds ridiculous and over-dramatic from someone my age, but I'm going to find this difficult. Maybe even more so than the smoking. But, it's time....
As from today, I will not eat chocolate again. I will never change my mind. That's all there is to say. Gulp.
Realising my life
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dorset, England
Posts: 3,656
Originally Posted by Jeni26
As from today, I will not eat chocolate again. I will never change my mind. That's all there is to say. Gulp.
And here are some hugs for the little you. I'm so very, very sorry for the unhappiness in those early years
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Wow! Let the Big Plans rock and roll!
MB,
In "Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction" at the bottom of p. 138 there is a paragraph that best describes for me what I think you mean by that "bulb moment".
What is done is the Big Plan. Like the giant machine face says at the end of the Matrix Trilogy - "It is done!"
I can't un-dive that dive, and I can't ever dive for the first time again. If I dive some more or recall the dive, it's simply like remembering "Yep, I made that Big Plan." This doesn't mean the AV will go away. But it does mean that I have broken ITs spinal "connection" to my voluntary muscles forever. While IT has always been a quadraplegic, AVRT will now allow me to let it whither and die.
Regarding the A of TAPS - Amount of food. A Big Plan along those lines might seem, at first, to be hard to keep; eating up to a certain point. I believe it can be done quite successfully as I reflect on my settling into a life without sweets. An important factor is that there is no grossly mind-altering process going on with basic eating. We still have our better judgement as we reach the maximum for the Amount.
A Big Plan to not voluntarily purge is pretty clear.
About my wondering about quitting processed foods, my wife says I'll have to learn to do more cooking. Hmmm. If I get hungry, not a problem. But not yet.
GT
PS: And, oh, MB, tell us you have the very best padded helmet in the universe for your boxing.
MB,
In "Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction" at the bottom of p. 138 there is a paragraph that best describes for me what I think you mean by that "bulb moment".
"Attempting your first dive off a high-dive board will produce anxiety because your beast brain (it) knows that the neocortex (you) is preparing to do something that apparently threatens its survival. It doesn't trust the neocortex, no matter how intelligent and reasonable it is to jump headfirst into ten feet of water for the fun of it. It is scared of death, and you may stand on the end of the board, one day at a time, for the rest of your life, waiting for the anxiety to subside and for the fear to go away. But if you decide to do the fearsome thing and then do it, it is done. The fear will rapidly diminish over the next few jumps and soon be forgotten. Diving then becomes effortless and the anxiety a curious memory." (Rational Recovery, RR:TNC, 1996)
I can't un-dive that dive, and I can't ever dive for the first time again. If I dive some more or recall the dive, it's simply like remembering "Yep, I made that Big Plan." This doesn't mean the AV will go away. But it does mean that I have broken ITs spinal "connection" to my voluntary muscles forever. While IT has always been a quadraplegic, AVRT will now allow me to let it whither and die.
Regarding the A of TAPS - Amount of food. A Big Plan along those lines might seem, at first, to be hard to keep; eating up to a certain point. I believe it can be done quite successfully as I reflect on my settling into a life without sweets. An important factor is that there is no grossly mind-altering process going on with basic eating. We still have our better judgement as we reach the maximum for the Amount.
A Big Plan to not voluntarily purge is pretty clear.
About my wondering about quitting processed foods, my wife says I'll have to learn to do more cooking. Hmmm. If I get hungry, not a problem. But not yet.
GT
PS: And, oh, MB, tell us you have the very best padded helmet in the universe for your boxing.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
Thanks HeadLump. You are a very kind thoughtful person. The 'little me' as you put it will be ok. She is being looked after now, and all will be well.
AV is in full force this morning over the chocolate...this is HUGE. I feel like I've lost my oldest friend! It is trying to convince me that I did this far too quickly after giving up the other stuff.... God, this can't really be harder than smoking can it? I'm going to keep really busy today. I've got the weeks meals to plan and shop for, lunch over a friends, then work to do for school. I think I will go to the gym this evening too. Sundays aren't my best day...I tend to dwell on stuff. So, I'm not going to give myself time.
AV....why not start tomorrow?
Me...I started yesterday, no need to question this any more.
AV...but you know you feel down on Sundays, choc will help lift your mood. It's only an extra day, what difference will it make? Anyway, you're out at Jane's for lunch, she always has chocs after a meal. What are you going to say? She will have bought them specially for you...
Me...I will say 'no thanks'. Easy. Shut up.
AV...you won't cope without choc. You have NOTHING LEFT to reward yourself with. You will have to take up smoking again.
The ridiculousness of this makes me laugh. Although I do still feel uneasy and a bit edgy. Why the hell can't I moderate ANYTHING?!? WTF is wrong with me? Time to meditate and get my act together.
See you later all. Have a good day xxx
AV is in full force this morning over the chocolate...this is HUGE. I feel like I've lost my oldest friend! It is trying to convince me that I did this far too quickly after giving up the other stuff.... God, this can't really be harder than smoking can it? I'm going to keep really busy today. I've got the weeks meals to plan and shop for, lunch over a friends, then work to do for school. I think I will go to the gym this evening too. Sundays aren't my best day...I tend to dwell on stuff. So, I'm not going to give myself time.
AV....why not start tomorrow?
Me...I started yesterday, no need to question this any more.
AV...but you know you feel down on Sundays, choc will help lift your mood. It's only an extra day, what difference will it make? Anyway, you're out at Jane's for lunch, she always has chocs after a meal. What are you going to say? She will have bought them specially for you...
Me...I will say 'no thanks'. Easy. Shut up.
AV...you won't cope without choc. You have NOTHING LEFT to reward yourself with. You will have to take up smoking again.
The ridiculousness of this makes me laugh. Although I do still feel uneasy and a bit edgy. Why the hell can't I moderate ANYTHING?!? WTF is wrong with me? Time to meditate and get my act together.
See you later all. Have a good day xxx
Realising my life
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dorset, England
Posts: 3,656
I dreamt last night that I was sneaking out to replace all the chocolate bars that I had eaten on a binge. Part way through, I said to myself: This can't be true. I don't binge any more! I woke feeling very happy. In my very early days of being sober, I had similar dreams about drinking and I felt as though the sober message must have percolated right through if my determination was so strong even in sleep!
I'm taking it as a sign that all will be well
Jeni, it sounds like chocolate was a good friend to you when you were little and vulnerable (and I'm so glad you had that) but you've outgrown that now and have found that all the resources you need are within you. You can still acknowledge chocolate, but why would you need waterwings when you can swim? They will only hold you back
I'm taking it as a sign that all will be well
Jeni, it sounds like chocolate was a good friend to you when you were little and vulnerable (and I'm so glad you had that) but you've outgrown that now and have found that all the resources you need are within you. You can still acknowledge chocolate, but why would you need waterwings when you can swim? They will only hold you back
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
Ugh....I'm finding it hard to go from a 2 bar of chocolate a day habit to nothing... I should have tapered (says my AV no doubt).
Are sugar withdrawals psychological? I sure seem to be getting some physical reactions. And I'm a misery.
Are sugar withdrawals psychological? I sure seem to be getting some physical reactions. And I'm a misery.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Hi Jeni,
I've changed your post a little by continuing on with putting speaker identifiers to who I see as speaking in your post. The ones I added are in color. I put in a few pronoun alternatives, too.
Probably a better way to interpret this sentence:
"Although I do still feel uneasy and a bit edgy."
is not to say it comes from the AV, but to separate from IT and hear yourself saying:
"Although I recognize IT sure still feels uneasy and a bit edgy."
That way IT doesn't get to claim the pronoun "I".
All I did was use the AVRT Matrix on how I thought you were feeling about each of your statements, and changed "Drink?" to mean "Eat chocolate?"
Before I quit sugar, and after I quit chocolate (many years ago), I found some carob bars to be tasty and never became dependent upon them.
Now that I've quit man-made sweets and concentrated natural sweets, I'm very careful about what carob products I eat. And since I read food labels all the time anyway, it doesn't take any added time or effort.
GT
I've changed your post a little by continuing on with putting speaker identifiers to who I see as speaking in your post. The ones I added are in color. I put in a few pronoun alternatives, too.
Originally Posted by Jeni26
Thanks HeadLump. You are a very kind thoughtful person. The 'little me' as you put it will be ok. She is being looked after now, and all will be well.
AV is in full force this morning over the chocolate...this is HUGE. I feel like I've lost my oldest friend! It is trying to convince me that I did this far too quickly after giving up the other stuff.... God, this can't really be harder than smoking can it? I'm going to keep really busy today. I've got the weeks meals to plan and shop for, lunch over a friends, then work to do for school. I think I will go to the gym this evening too. Sundays aren't my best day...I tend to dwell on stuff. So, I'm not going to give myself time.
AV....why not start tomorrow?
Me...I started yesterday, no need to question this any more.
AV...but you know you feel down on Sundays, choc will help lift your mood. It's only an extra day, what difference will it make? Anyway, you're out at Jane's for lunch, she always has chocs after a meal. What are you going to say? She will have bought them specially for you...
Me...I will say 'no thanks'. Easy. Shut up.
AV...you won't cope without choc. You have NOTHING LEFT to reward yourself with. You will have to take up smoking again.
[Me]...The ridiculousness of this[IT] makes me laugh.
[AV]...Although I do still feel uneasy and a bit edgy.
[more AV]...Why the hell can't I[you] moderate ANYTHING?!?
[more AV]...WTF is wrong with me[you]?
[Me]...Time to meditate
[AV]...and get my[your] act together.
See you later all. Have a good day xxx
AV is in full force this morning over the chocolate...this is HUGE. I feel like I've lost my oldest friend! It is trying to convince me that I did this far too quickly after giving up the other stuff.... God, this can't really be harder than smoking can it? I'm going to keep really busy today. I've got the weeks meals to plan and shop for, lunch over a friends, then work to do for school. I think I will go to the gym this evening too. Sundays aren't my best day...I tend to dwell on stuff. So, I'm not going to give myself time.
AV....why not start tomorrow?
Me...I started yesterday, no need to question this any more.
AV...but you know you feel down on Sundays, choc will help lift your mood. It's only an extra day, what difference will it make? Anyway, you're out at Jane's for lunch, she always has chocs after a meal. What are you going to say? She will have bought them specially for you...
Me...I will say 'no thanks'. Easy. Shut up.
AV...you won't cope without choc. You have NOTHING LEFT to reward yourself with. You will have to take up smoking again.
[Me]...The ridiculousness of this[IT] makes me laugh.
[AV]...Although I do still feel uneasy and a bit edgy.
[more AV]...Why the hell can't I[you] moderate ANYTHING?!?
[more AV]...WTF is wrong with me[you]?
[Me]...Time to meditate
[AV]...and get my[your] act together.
See you later all. Have a good day xxx
"Although I do still feel uneasy and a bit edgy."
is not to say it comes from the AV, but to separate from IT and hear yourself saying:
"Although I recognize IT sure still feels uneasy and a bit edgy."
That way IT doesn't get to claim the pronoun "I".
All I did was use the AVRT Matrix on how I thought you were feeling about each of your statements, and changed "Drink?" to mean "Eat chocolate?"
Before I quit sugar, and after I quit chocolate (many years ago), I found some carob bars to be tasty and never became dependent upon them.
Now that I've quit man-made sweets and concentrated natural sweets, I'm very careful about what carob products I eat. And since I read food labels all the time anyway, it doesn't take any added time or effort.
GT
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