AVRT to cope with emotional binge eating
Sober since October
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Hi, Jeni!
I am... so-so. Still somewhere in the realm of anhedonia. Though stay away from processed sweets and not beingeing, but ate a lot of crap today. Yep, even without sugar there's still a way to eat crap. I think my addictions migrate from one form to another and the beast reincarnates again and again.
I guess I am trying to eat away anxiety again because it's so damn hard to just "sit with it".
And now the beast has its field day because I can see it smirking again: "Soooo, you are celebrating your one year sober tomorrow. And what? What did you achieve? Your life is still in the same mess.You don't drink? What's the big idea?". And blah, blah, blah.
I am so thrilled you are going to make a Big Plan on eating habits.
I absolutely relate that sweets make me sluggish and, actually, they affect mood a lot, because stimulate the same reward center as other addictive things.
Looking forward to your BIg Plan, my badass pal!
See you)
I am... so-so. Still somewhere in the realm of anhedonia. Though stay away from processed sweets and not beingeing, but ate a lot of crap today. Yep, even without sugar there's still a way to eat crap. I think my addictions migrate from one form to another and the beast reincarnates again and again.
I guess I am trying to eat away anxiety again because it's so damn hard to just "sit with it".
And now the beast has its field day because I can see it smirking again: "Soooo, you are celebrating your one year sober tomorrow. And what? What did you achieve? Your life is still in the same mess.You don't drink? What's the big idea?". And blah, blah, blah.
I am so thrilled you are going to make a Big Plan on eating habits.
I absolutely relate that sweets make me sluggish and, actually, they affect mood a lot, because stimulate the same reward center as other addictive things.
Looking forward to your BIg Plan, my badass pal!
See you)
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Thank you so much, my badass pal!
I am in a great mood today. I have no idea where it came from - just from ... somewhere... I believe it's your faith)
See you)
I am in a great mood today. I have no idea where it came from - just from ... somewhere... I believe it's your faith)
See you)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
Ok...I'm late into work today, not feeling too well and waiting to see a doctor.
Perfect time to make my big plan...
No fancy words, no thinking all this through any more because my AV just loves a good old debate about this and it's kept me going for months.
As from today, Monday 14th October, I will never eat cake, ice cream or biscuits (cookies) again. End of story. Nothing more need be added to my Big Plan. As with the smoking, this cannot and will not be broken. Ever.
Perfect time to make my big plan...
No fancy words, no thinking all this through any more because my AV just loves a good old debate about this and it's kept me going for months.
As from today, Monday 14th October, I will never eat cake, ice cream or biscuits (cookies) again. End of story. Nothing more need be added to my Big Plan. As with the smoking, this cannot and will not be broken. Ever.
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Wow, Jeni!
This is really badass Big Plan. No discussion, no BS, not even tiny chance for AV to squeeze in and start and argument!
So glad you are with me!
This is really badass Big Plan. No discussion, no BS, not even tiny chance for AV to squeeze in and start and argument!
So glad you are with me!
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Hi, all)
Jeni, how are you doing, my friend?
I am ok without sweets/cakes/cookies/ice-cream. The major issue for me is grocery shopping - when I pass all these aisles AV pops out and starts the most annoying advertising campaign appealing to my imagination. But I don't eat it any more.
See you later.
Jeni, how are you doing, my friend?
I am ok without sweets/cakes/cookies/ice-cream. The major issue for me is grocery shopping - when I pass all these aisles AV pops out and starts the most annoying advertising campaign appealing to my imagination. But I don't eat it any more.
See you later.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
Hi MB...well yes I'm fine. I was bought a box of cookies by one of the women at work as a thank you for something I did to help her. I gave it away to the guy who I share an office with. He opened them and kept them on his desk all bloody day! Ugh. The beast was right on that of course. I could almost taste them...
After going through this already with smoking, I'm sort of prepared for the inner dialogue. I know the score...on the way home it was whispering to me to go buy some chocolate as a reward for giving up on the cookies. I haven't cut out chocolate (yet), but I wouldn't normally be eating it on my way home, so I told it no.
Feeling good and positive.
I haven't had the grocery shop to navigate yet, but the way I look at it, I never thought it was possible to get round without buying vodka at one point in my life. And..cigarettes...it wasn't that many months ago that I was having a tantrum at the cigarette kiosk. If I can go shopping without being troubled by them, I can pass cake and cookies. No problem.
I think it helps that I've still got chocolate to look forward to. Although the plan is to give up that eventually...but not yet.
You can do this MB. I never say no to a cookie, and I never eat just one. I've got a few health problems at the moment, nothing serious but the docs suspect I may have angina, stress related no doubt. I've gotta go for some tests. A healthy diet is especially important to me right now. Fruit rather than cake methinks!x
After going through this already with smoking, I'm sort of prepared for the inner dialogue. I know the score...on the way home it was whispering to me to go buy some chocolate as a reward for giving up on the cookies. I haven't cut out chocolate (yet), but I wouldn't normally be eating it on my way home, so I told it no.
Feeling good and positive.
I haven't had the grocery shop to navigate yet, but the way I look at it, I never thought it was possible to get round without buying vodka at one point in my life. And..cigarettes...it wasn't that many months ago that I was having a tantrum at the cigarette kiosk. If I can go shopping without being troubled by them, I can pass cake and cookies. No problem.
I think it helps that I've still got chocolate to look forward to. Although the plan is to give up that eventually...but not yet.
You can do this MB. I never say no to a cookie, and I never eat just one. I've got a few health problems at the moment, nothing serious but the docs suspect I may have angina, stress related no doubt. I've gotta go for some tests. A healthy diet is especially important to me right now. Fruit rather than cake methinks!x
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Hi, pals.
Quick check in from me.
I 've been thinking about feelings again.. And I've made a list of emotional conditions that the AV just loves and feels absolutely at ease there:
- Anxiety;
- Insecurity;
- Hopelessness;
- Fear to make a mistake=procrastination=stuck=feel hopeless again;
- Low self-esteem;
- Daily necessity to seek approval from other people.
Well, the Beast has enough help, it seems...
Where's my allies now?
See you later)
Quick check in from me.
I 've been thinking about feelings again.. And I've made a list of emotional conditions that the AV just loves and feels absolutely at ease there:
- Anxiety;
- Insecurity;
- Hopelessness;
- Fear to make a mistake=procrastination=stuck=feel hopeless again;
- Low self-esteem;
- Daily necessity to seek approval from other people.
Well, the Beast has enough help, it seems...
Where's my allies now?
See you later)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
Just a quickie...as I'm just waiting to go in for my meditation class.
Those bloody cookies were on his desk again today...he ate 2 ALL DAY...how can anyone have a box just sitting there staring at them and stop at 2 I ask you?! I mean seriously?! My beast was whining on and off, then I had a meeting after work and one of the staff brought a huge sponge cake with golden syrup she'd made..... Funny thing was when I said no thanks, I got a few comments, 'not feeling well Jen?', 'that's not like you'...I had to laugh it reminded me of the reactions of my old drinking crowd when I first went out with them and drank orange juice!
Anyway... I coped of course. Ate some choc in the car while I was driving, but that's allowed.
MB, yeah, your AV will love a sign of what it perceives to be weakness. Look how I was tempted to smoke at that funeral last week. It will use what it can. You know how your perception of how you are is flawed don't you? I bet there is no other person in the world who sees you as you do. While you are working with your therapist on your stuff...just keep in mind that binge eating makes you really unhappy always. You have never posted and told me you had a lovely afternoon eating cr*p. You hate everything about it. Lucky then, you are never going to experience that again. Phew!
This was supposed to be a quick post, now I'm late...see ya!
Those bloody cookies were on his desk again today...he ate 2 ALL DAY...how can anyone have a box just sitting there staring at them and stop at 2 I ask you?! I mean seriously?! My beast was whining on and off, then I had a meeting after work and one of the staff brought a huge sponge cake with golden syrup she'd made..... Funny thing was when I said no thanks, I got a few comments, 'not feeling well Jen?', 'that's not like you'...I had to laugh it reminded me of the reactions of my old drinking crowd when I first went out with them and drank orange juice!
Anyway... I coped of course. Ate some choc in the car while I was driving, but that's allowed.
MB, yeah, your AV will love a sign of what it perceives to be weakness. Look how I was tempted to smoke at that funeral last week. It will use what it can. You know how your perception of how you are is flawed don't you? I bet there is no other person in the world who sees you as you do. While you are working with your therapist on your stuff...just keep in mind that binge eating makes you really unhappy always. You have never posted and told me you had a lovely afternoon eating cr*p. You hate everything about it. Lucky then, you are never going to experience that again. Phew!
This was supposed to be a quick post, now I'm late...see ya!
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Posts: 3,424
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue 
Hi, pals.
Quick check in from me.
I 've been thinking about feelings again.. And I've made a list of emotional conditions that the AV just loves and feels absolutely at ease there:
- Anxiety;
- Insecurity;
- Hopelessness;
- Fear to make a mistake=procrastination=stuck=feel hopeless again;
- Low self-esteem;
- Daily necessity to seek approval from other people.
Well, the Beast has enough help, it seems...
Where's my allies now?
See you later)
Quick check in from me.
I 've been thinking about feelings again.. And I've made a list of emotional conditions that the AV just loves and feels absolutely at ease there:
- Anxiety;
- Insecurity;
- Hopelessness;
- Fear to make a mistake=procrastination=stuck=feel hopeless again;
- Low self-esteem;
- Daily necessity to seek approval from other people.
Well, the Beast has enough help, it seems...
Where's my allies now?
See you later)
This is when ED comes out for me too?
I am starting to learn though that ED for me is my distraction to NOT feel these feelings. That as hard as my negative feelings are, it is what I do with them that gets me into trouble...not the fact that I have them.
In many ways I don't feel this way as much about myself....feeling better overall has helped. Still I feel sad, angry etc....and it feels like it takes over and all my poor coping comes out. Food was one of them. I thought food was my only poor one for a long time, but as food got better I realized there were other ones also.
All I have to say is that feeling them was uncomfortable in the short run, but has helped immensely in the long run.
Good for you for being willing to look and to feel.
I am curious what your therapist thinks of all your hard work?
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
Hi, pals.
Quick check in from me.
I 've been thinking about feelings again.. And I've made a list of emotional conditions that the AV just loves and feels absolutely at ease there:
- Anxiety;
- Insecurity;
- Hopelessness;
- Fear to make a mistake=procrastination=stuck=feel hopeless again;
- Low self-esteem;
- Daily necessity to seek approval from other people.
Well, the Beast has enough help, it seems...
Where's my allies now?
See you later)
Quick check in from me.
I 've been thinking about feelings again.. And I've made a list of emotional conditions that the AV just loves and feels absolutely at ease there:
- Anxiety;
- Insecurity;
- Hopelessness;
- Fear to make a mistake=procrastination=stuck=feel hopeless again;
- Low self-esteem;
- Daily necessity to seek approval from other people.
Well, the Beast has enough help, it seems...
Where's my allies now?
See you later)
After labeling each of them, they have been forever after completely ill-at-ease at all times. No matter what mood I'm in, as soon as I hear or sense anything from their cornered selves, even if they pretend any sort of potency, they lose hands down. That's the beauty of AVRT. Simple Recognition and knowing I will never act upon any of their wishes leaves me perfectly confident that I can have any thought or feeling in any life situation, dramatic, dangerous, boring, depressing, whatever, and they (my three ITs) will never succeed.
They would be the only voices I hear within myself that would ever say "where are YOUR allies against us?" They would love me to buy into the popular idea that my voluntary muscles are not really within my voluntary control: that I need help from outside of my brain to keep from ingesting certain obvious things.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
GT-it's your confidence that I find amazing. To just KNOW that you won't do those things again whatever your AV tells you... I'm not as confident I guess. I won't pick up those foods again because I can recognise my AV and I'm so bloody stubborn that I've decided it just won't beat me into submission. I hate being at the mercy of my addiction. HATED (past tense)...and so I'm choosing not to engage. Not confidence so much as not wanted to be told what to do by that part of my brain which wants only bad things for me.
I was also interested by you saying you have 3 AVs for each of your addictions. I have only one. It just puts new temptations in my way every so often. But it's the same just using different words.
MB and LifeRecovery...I'm not sure that I have an ED. I have in the past, and I'm weird about food for sure, but it doesn't follow any pattern that would fit into a category. I certainly don't have the same issues with relating it to my emotions. I have a bad day..I want to smoke, not eat. I'm actually more likely to stop eating when I'm stressed. So I guess I'm lucky in that respect. What I did do (past tense GT lol), was when I opened a box of cookies/cakes...I would eat the lot, even if it made me feel ill, I would also crave sugary stuff and get that urge to go out and stock up if I didn't have any. So...addiction? Yes I think so, but ED? Not so sure about that one.
Anyway, have a good day guys..the boss is away for a few days so I'm in charge...yikes!!x
I was also interested by you saying you have 3 AVs for each of your addictions. I have only one. It just puts new temptations in my way every so often. But it's the same just using different words.
MB and LifeRecovery...I'm not sure that I have an ED. I have in the past, and I'm weird about food for sure, but it doesn't follow any pattern that would fit into a category. I certainly don't have the same issues with relating it to my emotions. I have a bad day..I want to smoke, not eat. I'm actually more likely to stop eating when I'm stressed. So I guess I'm lucky in that respect. What I did do (past tense GT lol), was when I opened a box of cookies/cakes...I would eat the lot, even if it made me feel ill, I would also crave sugary stuff and get that urge to go out and stock up if I didn't have any. So...addiction? Yes I think so, but ED? Not so sure about that one.
Anyway, have a good day guys..the boss is away for a few days so I'm in charge...yikes!!x
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by Jeni26
...I hate being at the mercy of my addiction. HATED (past tense)...and so I'm choosing not to engage. Not confidence so much as not wanted to be told what to do by that part of my brain which wants only bad things for me.
I was also interested by you saying you have 3 AVs for each of your addictions. I have only one. It just puts new temptations in my way every so often. But it's the same just using different words. ...
I was also interested by you saying you have 3 AVs for each of your addictions. I have only one. It just puts new temptations in my way every so often. But it's the same just using different words. ...
As to the sugar addiction I ended 16 months ago with that Big Plan, I now also no longer believe I "have" a sugar addiction.
That sugar addiction lasted only about 1/2 year. You see, I wasn't ambivalent about eating sugar before that time, thus, no addiction.
I don't believe in addictive personalities, and definitely would never give an AV the option of putting new temptations in my path. That idea itself is the AV.
I'll re-post now what I've posted a few times before about my view of the 5 conditions of substance use and the terminology used in AVRT.
As I became familiar with RR meanings of terms, I saw how logical and sensible the definitions were. I soon realized I had passed through the following conditions regarding each of my three self-identified addictions:
A - Born as - Abstinent (Me = no) no internal conflicts
B - Tried out - Non-dependent use (Me = yes, The Beast doesn't exist) no internal conflicts
C - Evolved to - Dependent use (Me = yes, It = yes) The Beast is born, no AVRT, no internal conflicts, some external problem solving
D - Transitioned to - Addicted use (Me = no, It = yes) Strong internal and external conflicts (This "no" is imposed by me finally deciding that my use had become irreversibly, morally reprehensible)
E - Made Big Plan - Abstinent (Me = Never, It is a quadriplegic) E is just like A, with the exception that AVRT makes what was an internal "conflict" simply an internal Recognition
As I thought about these conditions, I realized no matter how hard I had tried I was unable to backtrack from C to B; and consequently because of my personal moral judgement, I would not backtrack from D to C; and, finally, having made a Big Plan, I also could not even try to backtrack from E to D, C, or B.
C can be a problematic condition with lots of outside negative consequences.
D, though, is the most problematic, and often short-lived, condition, because the addicted person is torn with strong ambivalence within their own thinking.
Simply put, AVRT makes recovery short and permanent. The recovery is over. Showing others how to do it may not be.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
GT-can i ask more questions...
Can I ask if you do not believe in addictive personalities, why you think you became addicted to those substances in the first place, why some people drink/use in the same quantities as others but do not ever move into dependence let alone addiction? I can see clearly that when my husband gave up drinking, which he did without any 'program' or support apart from mine, he literally lurched from one obsession to another. We joke that he could become addicted to anything...but it seems quite true!
Why is it also that I simply seem to move from one addiction to another? I never really liked sweet things before I gave up smoking, I didn't see it coming really. It's made me very vigilant now about other substances. I just KNOW that I was very lucky not to have experimented with drugs apart from the ones I did. If I am prescribed painkillers, I have to be very careful as my body reacts strongly to that buzz and it wouldn't be too long before I'm craving for more. When I had a general anaesthetic, I remember LOVING that feeling as I was being put out. It stayed with me for a long time. Knowing that, I choose never to take those substances unless I have to. Because IMO, I have a natural tendency to become addicted, a personality that for whatever reason, makes it more likely. That also explains why alcoholism/drug addiction runs in my family. I was aware of it, hated the way it affected people, yet still became addicted myself.
Sorry MB...I'm derailing your thread a bit. I just find this really interesting.
Can I ask if you do not believe in addictive personalities, why you think you became addicted to those substances in the first place, why some people drink/use in the same quantities as others but do not ever move into dependence let alone addiction? I can see clearly that when my husband gave up drinking, which he did without any 'program' or support apart from mine, he literally lurched from one obsession to another. We joke that he could become addicted to anything...but it seems quite true!
Why is it also that I simply seem to move from one addiction to another? I never really liked sweet things before I gave up smoking, I didn't see it coming really. It's made me very vigilant now about other substances. I just KNOW that I was very lucky not to have experimented with drugs apart from the ones I did. If I am prescribed painkillers, I have to be very careful as my body reacts strongly to that buzz and it wouldn't be too long before I'm craving for more. When I had a general anaesthetic, I remember LOVING that feeling as I was being put out. It stayed with me for a long time. Knowing that, I choose never to take those substances unless I have to. Because IMO, I have a natural tendency to become addicted, a personality that for whatever reason, makes it more likely. That also explains why alcoholism/drug addiction runs in my family. I was aware of it, hated the way it affected people, yet still became addicted myself.
Sorry MB...I'm derailing your thread a bit. I just find this really interesting.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
When I say I would never allow the AV to put new temptations in my path, that doesn't mean I don't like or don't want new temptations put in my path. New choices make life interesting. It just that I believe that has nothing to do with an AV. I would never broaden out any AV into territory beyond its definition. I think this is very important. The AV is only any internal opposition to a particular Big Plan, or potential Big Plan, period.
In Rational Recovery, addiction exists only when there is internal ambivalence, so an addictive personality would be one where a person is perpetually torn about all sorts of habituated behaviors they do. That just doesn't make sense to me, and would be a ridiculous way to imagine thinking of myself.
On the other hand, I believe its totally natural for everyone to come to depend upon all sorts of behavior they do. That's what makes life predictable, secure and comfortable. I depend upon my exercise routine. I depend upon my wife. I depend upon hearing from my children. I depend upon reading certain websites. I depend upon goat cheese, believe it or not. I love it. So, in this light, everybody has a dependent personality. That's just being human.
Take the three B's, for instance, Beethoven, Brahms, and Bach. If those guys hadn't been seriously dependent upon the drive to compose music, our world would have missed untold beauty and joyful emotion. Isadore Duncan, hooked on dance. Stephen King, crazy about writing. Me, hellbent to discuss AVRT. Your husband, loves focusing in on x, y, and/or z.
In Rational Recovery, addiction exists only when there is internal ambivalence, so an addictive personality would be one where a person is perpetually torn about all sorts of habituated behaviors they do. That just doesn't make sense to me, and would be a ridiculous way to imagine thinking of myself.
On the other hand, I believe its totally natural for everyone to come to depend upon all sorts of behavior they do. That's what makes life predictable, secure and comfortable. I depend upon my exercise routine. I depend upon my wife. I depend upon hearing from my children. I depend upon reading certain websites. I depend upon goat cheese, believe it or not. I love it. So, in this light, everybody has a dependent personality. That's just being human.
Take the three B's, for instance, Beethoven, Brahms, and Bach. If those guys hadn't been seriously dependent upon the drive to compose music, our world would have missed untold beauty and joyful emotion. Isadore Duncan, hooked on dance. Stephen King, crazy about writing. Me, hellbent to discuss AVRT. Your husband, loves focusing in on x, y, and/or z.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
So an AV doesn't exist before a decision has been made to quit? People who are addicted to substances but do not want to stop do not hear it?
Do you not accept that some people are genetically predisposed to addiction? I guess that's what I meant by an addictive personality. Why is it that alcoholism runs in families? There can be little doubt of that. I never understood how, with all my negative feelings about drinking, I became an alcoholic too.
MB, how are you feeling today my friend? So pleased its Friday...xx
Do you not accept that some people are genetically predisposed to addiction? I guess that's what I meant by an addictive personality. Why is it that alcoholism runs in families? There can be little doubt of that. I never understood how, with all my negative feelings about drinking, I became an alcoholic too.
MB, how are you feeling today my friend? So pleased its Friday...xx
Sober since October
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Hi, pals)
I am ok - no sugar, no binges, and it's getting better)
GT - Thank you for very interesting insight and posts.
Jeni - now way you are derailing the thread - au contraire - thank you for taking care of it while I was punching bag at my boxing class) . Congrats on Friday!
Lots of food for thought - I need some time to digest it and come up with my ides and questions, and some changes I've been experiencing recently
See you all later)
Have a great day.
I am ok - no sugar, no binges, and it's getting better)
GT - Thank you for very interesting insight and posts.
Jeni - now way you are derailing the thread - au contraire - thank you for taking care of it while I was punching bag at my boxing class) . Congrats on Friday!
Lots of food for thought - I need some time to digest it and come up with my ides and questions, and some changes I've been experiencing recently
See you all later)
Have a great day.
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