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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 4

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 4

Old 03-01-2012, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Here's a riddle... For AVRT to 'work', you need to recognize the Addictive Voice, which technically makes recognition a contingency. Does this then make recognition itself AV? This could lead to a headache.
I think two concepts lead to understanding the answer.
1. The Big Plan forces the loss of choice.
2. It is impossible to not think about a pink elephant (or a DRINK) at this moment.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
1. The Big Plan forces the loss of choice.
2. It is impossible to not think about a pink elephant (or a DRINK) at this moment.
This is true. "I choose not to drink today" does not correlate with AVRT, since the Big Plan removes the option entirely. With a Big Plan in place, you no longer have the option of choosing. This naturally makes recognition of the AV much easier. I can accept that AVRT requires some axioms, though, and if recognition is a contingency, which is what the Big Plan itself is, so be it.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:05 AM
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RE: Pet names for The Beast

The only part where I am hazy is how do you recognize that part of yourself as something else... telling myself that I do not want a drink it "the beast" (I was calling mine Tom last night) wants a drink.
This was posted elsewhere on the forum, and prompted another thought. People are often tempted to give The Beast a nice, soft, endearing pet name. This doesn't do it justice, and I advise against it. The Beast is a ruthless, perverted survival drive turned death drive that will literally put you six feet under if you let it.

Remember also that the Beast first and foremost needs to avoid being seen for what it is in order to survive, so calling it something like "the little toddler" isn't going to help matters. I use Beast or 'IT' myself, and for the purposes of this thread, that is best, but 'Parasite' might also be fitting. Much like a parasite, the Beast will slowly kill you — and possibly others along the way — in order to survive.
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Old 03-01-2012, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
This is true. "I choose not to drink today" does not correlate with AVRT, since the Big Plan removes the option entirely. With a Big Plan in place, you no longer have the option of choosing. This naturally makes recognition of the AV much easier. I can accept that AVRT requires some axioms, though, and if recognition is a contingency, which is what the Big Plan itself is, so be it.
I think of my Big Plan, like the age old teetotaler pledge, as the opposite of a contingency. And AVRT is the moral thoughts/feelings magnet inside my head with ME and IT stamped at the opposite poles - the perfect sorter. The way AVRT resolves addiction almost compares with the way calculus solves engineering problems. it's an amazing convenience.
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
And AVRT is the moral thoughts/feelings magnet inside my head with ME and IT stamped at the opposite poles - the perfect sorter. The way AVRT resolves addiction almost compares with the way calculus solves engineering problems. it's an amazing convenience.
That's just beautiful. I like engineery things too.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
with an intermediary edition titled The Final Fix.
lol... I love the all-or-nothing approach to the Big Plan, but Trimpey should leave himself more wiggle room in his titles.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble View Post
lol... I love the all-or-nothing approach to the Big Plan, but Trimpey should leave himself more wiggle room in his titles.
The marketing people at Simon and Schuster apparently didn't like it.

Originally Posted by Jack and Lois Trimpey
The Final Fix was purchased by Simon and Schuster, and immediately after the agreement was signed, they changed the title against our wishes. It became RR: The New Cure by default, and although it is a fine title, perhaps better in some respects, the change was not of our choosing.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:12 AM
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I have a couple of questions-

1) I quit alcohol b/c it was a trigger for cocaine- and cocaine was causing me to drink well beyond my former habit- which was a mere two beers after work.

2) In London I enjoyed the cask beers. I have it in mind that the next time I am in London (next year) I want to drink. I plan to drink in pubs.

So- first question- is that so fundamentally incompatible with AVRT- given the contingency doctrine that is well articulated here- as to be considered completely ill advised. (even as I type this I realize no one can answer that but me- but still-Id like to hear thoughts)
Ive seen that played out in discussions here- just not quite particular to my "big plan" I don't consider a planned episode of drinking to be incompatible with a daily commitment to not get drunk for a year before that or after that. I consider it a commitment to moderation.
And who knows- that year could change my mind into being less tolerant for that contingency. Anyone with experience in this.


Ok- second question. I understand the polar opposition of I and IT- and appreciate that it is key to interjecting a rational response to an animal drive. I find it wonderfully liberating as opposed to hand wringing every day as to whether my 'disease' is progressing. I find it so liberating in fact that I have fired every drug user in my business- harsh I know, but I decided that I wasn't interested in being around it AT ALL. so now Im sort of ******- but happy and really feeling freed up on many levels I hadn't anticipated. However; the discussion of music and bars etc got me thinking: The same area of the brain which becomes perverted into finding pleasure in things that kill us also can be retrained and reintegrated into driving us to reach out for healthy pleasures- that part of the brain (Im beginning my reading on this and would like to be corrected if wrong) is very close to areas involved in appreciating and making music.
So, question- what if anything do yall do in terms of reintegrating the beast into a healthy part of the brain? Is there research on this? What have been your experiences. I have now been off of my two drugs of choice for the longest time ever- for 20 years I have 'tried' to quit weed, and for a year coke- I haven't had so much as a craving since making this commitment with this understanding and it feels great. look forward to learning more.

Any perspective on either of these questions? Thanks
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob36 View Post
I don't consider a planned episode of drinking to be incompatible with a daily commitment to not get drunk for a year before that or after that. I consider it a commitment to moderation.
  1. AVRT is incompatible with moderation — it is about abstinence.
  2. AVRT is not about a "daily commitment" ala "I choose not to drink today" or one-day-at-a-time sobriety.
  3. The Big Plan removes the option of choosing.
  4. The Big Plan is not an experiment, 'to see how it goes'.
  5. No Big Plan, no AVRT.
The Addictive Voice is "any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or drugs -- ever."

What you wrote above qualifies in spades.

Originally Posted by Bob36 View Post
And who knows- that year could change my mind into being less tolerant for that contingency.
It could also change your mind into being more tolerant of other drugs, which you've already alluded to with your comment about alcohol leading to cocaine use.

Originally Posted by Bob36 View Post
I understand the polar opposition of I and IT- and appreciate that it is key to interjecting a rational response to an animal drive.
In AVRT, we don't interject a rational response. We generally do not respond to the Addictive Voice at all. We don't need to respond, because the Big Plan renders anything the AV says just plain wrong.

Originally Posted by Bob36 View Post
The same area of the brain which becomes perverted into finding pleasure in things that kill us also can be retrained and reintegrated into driving us to reach out for healthy pleasures... what if anything do ya'll do in terms of reintegrating the beast into a healthy part of the brain?
The Beast of AVRT is not the entire Midbrain/Limbic System, although it originates from there. Unless you have identified some other vice, such as gambling, The Beast is the desire for alcohol and other drugs. Nothing more, nothing less. You don't need to re-integrate it, because it is already entirely integrated into your brain. It was born there.

All your other pleasure drives, such as for music, etc, are good and well if you think they are. AVRT sets you free as a bird to engage in whatever other activities you may desire. Just out of curiosity... how far have you gotten into RR: TNC? Have you taken the crash course?
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:21 PM
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For any Christians reluctant to post here...

I realize that since this discussion thread is in the Secular Connections forum, some of Sober Recovery's Christian members may be reluctant to post here. While AVRT does indeed have many secular fans, this need not deter those who are not, since AVRT is perfectly congruent with Christian repentance. Traditional recovery paradigms often create a needless secular/religious divide, but AVRT avoids this by design.

Originally Posted by Gaetano Salomone, M.A./M.Div., and Jack Trimpey

Rational Recovery has developed a highly sophisticated, effective method of self-recovery called Addictive Voice Recognition Technique® (AVRT). It is a simple tool anyone can use anywhere, anytime to quit addiction to alcohol or street drugs — for good. AVRT is based on the understanding that self-intoxication is voluntary behavior for the explicit purpose of obtaining the pleasurable effect of the substance. As such, addiction is viewed as a self-indulgence rather than as a psychological coping mechanism. Using a simple diagram of the healthy human brain, we teach people that the desire to drink or use drugs arises from pleasure centers in the midbrain, where the pleasure-driven survival drives, e.g., eating, sex, breathing, etc, also exist. An addiction, far from being a disease, is an errant survival drive which propels some people toward self-destruction. From this animal, pleasure-seeking side of human nature, arise purposeful thoughts of drinking or using. In AVRT, the sole cause of addiction is the Addictive Voice (AV) which argues endlessly and convincingly to continue the use of alcohol and drugs. AVRT short-circuits this process by objectifying the AV as not-self, i.e., “not I, but it,” which wants to drink/use. (“The thing I want to do, I do not; instead I do what I hate.” Rom. 7:15)

RR names the desire for intoxicated, sensate pleasure “The Beast.” This is a direct reference to the biblical understanding of the demonic, which also satisfies the scientist’s demand for congruity with what is known about human physiology. In the same way that Jesus brought the demons under his control by naming them (Mark 5:9), so can human beings bring the animal side of their nature under dominion by objectifying the AV as the inner enemy (i.e., “Satan,” the opposer, the accuser). The mastery of one’s bodily desires is the highest aspiration of all civilized religion. AVRT is a precise map of the awesome process of regeneration outlined in ancient scripture.

Copyright © The Journal of Rational Recovery
Nov. - Dec., 1997, Vol. 10, Iss. 2
All Rights Reserved

PS: If you are a secularist, and the above text makes you squirm, deal with it.
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:02 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to answer my question so thoroughly TU. Very helpful to understanding how AVRT intersects with my own present attitude towards abstinence. I have read the crash course at the website- and enjoyed very much the radio interviews. I continue to read and listen and grow- the results thus far have been profoundly positive.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob36 View Post
I have read the crash course at the website- and enjoyed very much the radio interviews. I continue to read and listen and grow- the results thus far have been profoundly positive.
You really should read the book, as it is far more comprehensive than the crash course. You can pick up a used copy at Amazon or Half_dot_com for under $1.50, less than $5 with shipping.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:57 AM
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Its time I did that- pretty much read the site- so Ill take your word for it. Thanks again for introducing me to this. Understanding that recovery is an event and not a process basically cured me- the peace Ive felt on this has been incredible, especially compared to the uneasy truce I was effecting with 12 steps- Im basically going to meetings to encourage people- I don't really belong there. most importantly,Im not taking any time from my family or workouts or practice to do so (Ill skip work though!!). I should at least get the book so I can lend it out to some of my friends who are still confused. Its hard not to share this with my friends- who Im sure just wish I would shut up already.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob36 View Post
Understanding that recovery is an event and not a process basically cured me - the peace I've felt on this has been incredible, especially compared to the uneasy truce I was effecting with 12 steps - I'm basically going to meetings to encourage people - I don't really belong there.
AVRT is a seed idea, that once implanted, usually grows on its own. It eventually operates like anti-virus software, protecting you in the background. Additionally, AVRT will give you a hyper-awareness of the addictive mentality, and you'll start to see both addiction and recovery in a very different light. For me, the cognitive dissonance became too much, and I concluded that I did not belong in meetings.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:30 PM
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I don't belong anywhere- so its not much of a change- I don't know how it was for you- but I am getting the most flack from the people I am cutting off/re arranging my relations with. My message has been pretty simple and non judgmental- I can't hang if you are on dope- Im not on dope and never will be again. The rage coming back at me is understandable on one level- But the machinations are as disheartening as they are interesting- its like watching a car wreck.
Im going to a meeting tonight more or less to meet up with one of the people who was helpful to begin with- to thank him. The cognitive dissonance belongs to them not me- I am secure in my recovery- even at this brief point of time. Dope for me was a means of denying responsibility for my talents and strengths. Im enjoying sobriety a lot. I can't see changing that or needing to go (or not go) to meetings. But I do respect people who do the best they can with the info they have. I had never heard of this technique and was a little uncomfortable with 12 steps to begin with. I was just ready to do what it took.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob36 View Post
I am getting the most flack from the people I am cutting off/re arranging my relations with... The rage coming back at me is understandable on one level - But the machinations are as disheartening as they are interesting - its like watching a car wreck.
You have to remember that they, too, have a Beast inside. Their Beast sees you as a threat, and Beasts will attack when threatened. The book has a good section on this, actually. I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I think you'll find that if you simply tell people that you will never drink/drug again, you won't have to do anything at all. Their Beast will invariably tell them to run far away from you, and you won't even have to cut them off. They will probably do it for you.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:55 PM
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Over the threshold...

A very interesting thread where GirlFromCO finally took the plunge, made her Big Plan, and felt the Abstinence Commitment Effect (ACE).
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:28 PM
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It's Called Mindset

Soberlicious posted something in another thread that reminded me of a particular logic trap that is possibly more dangerous to the well-being of addicted people than any other form of Addictive Voice. It is the most fundamental illusion that keeps people trapped in addiction, and it goes like this:

"If you were capable of quitting drinking, you would have quit drinking by now, but you obviously haven’t quit, so that proves that you cannot quit. If you could have quit, you would have quit, but you didn’t, so you can’t."

For reference, here is the thread that soberlicious started (worth reading):
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:07 AM
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yeah- Ive been following the GirlfromCo thread.

In my case, I am firing people because of their habits- its not a simple matter. But Im ok with the flack. I never smoked or snorted to escape- I did it so other people wouldn't have to deal with what an ******* I really am- I like me sober- too bad about everybody else. they are free to leave.. ha ha..
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:31 AM
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I received the book yesterday and am totally engrossed in it. I see myself constantly. . the excuses, the "I have to take things one day at a time, cuz I am not sure I can make it" syndrom. All that I was doing was giving myself that outlet to keep drinking.

The book is amazing and I am not even half way through it yet.

Thanks for the suggestion , TU
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