Hypocrisy
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,499
Originally Posted by Doriss 
You want to elaborate Miss P? Sounds interesting.
I tried changing my focus to deal with responsible businesses and positive investments and all of that great-sounding stuff, but even that eventually left me disillusioned. Any profit-making concern, in fact anything that tries to make money, still has a root of selfishness in it.
I can't do it anymore. My soul is crying having to do it.
The pandemic made trying to leave my job more complicated.
Yesterday I found out my workplace is running a redundancy program, and I will qualify. It's a heaven-sent gift. I am beside myself at the thought that I will have my freedom and some breathing space to work things out. I am truly, truly over the moon.
x
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: England
Posts: 315
I'm very happy this has happened for you 😊. What a great new start you can make in your career!
What do you fancy doing next?
I couldn't work in cold hard profit and finance type job (I'm too thick haha). And no way any job that kills the soul..slowly 😢
You must be buzzing and I don't blame you haha. You also have some great self discipline and sense of responsibility to stick with a job you hate that badly until you could see a way out of it that wouldn't ruin you.
Congratulations, over the moon for you 😘
What do you fancy doing next?
I couldn't work in cold hard profit and finance type job (I'm too thick haha). And no way any job that kills the soul..slowly 😢
You must be buzzing and I don't blame you haha. You also have some great self discipline and sense of responsibility to stick with a job you hate that badly until you could see a way out of it that wouldn't ruin you.
Congratulations, over the moon for you 😘
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: England
Posts: 315
As you Miss P. Aellyce and Binimi Have stopped drinking, for what seems to me like eons, a week in. Would you say you went out with a bang with the last drink/drunk or sort of peter out?
I always thought I would stop because of some ultra bad thing happening. Or some big health crisis. Waiting for a bolt of lighting from the Gods to bring me to my senses.
But on that, my last drink, it was a very mild binge, for me. Nothing tragic or awful happened (unlike some of my spectacularly horrendous benders). I feel like I just petered out.
Or anyone who has stopped drinking for a solid amount of time, anyone just peter out?
I always thought I would stop because of some ultra bad thing happening. Or some big health crisis. Waiting for a bolt of lighting from the Gods to bring me to my senses.
But on that, my last drink, it was a very mild binge, for me. Nothing tragic or awful happened (unlike some of my spectacularly horrendous benders). I feel like I just petered out.
Or anyone who has stopped drinking for a solid amount of time, anyone just peter out?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Miss P - that sounds awesome about the job and I relate to your enthusiasm. I don't hate my primary (academic) job by any means but have been doing it for a pretty long time and am now very seriously looking for a way out or at least a change in topic and environment. It is really very exciting when good opportunities seem to come together after a long period of dilemmas. I have been working on this for about 2 years now and it's a long process when you have tons of responsibilities and are leading a team, but I have also made a lot of progress with mine during this COVID period, so can't say that this year has been negative for me. I wish you all the best for finding what inspires you next and I also admire you for being able to hold a job you hated - I know I would not be able to do that as I am so self-motivated, if that's lacking, nothing works and my so-called sense of responsibility goes out of the window. I had a job like that a long time ago for a couple years and everything went downhill pretty fast, including that was also the time when my drinking escalated to alcoholic levels. Of course the job was not to blame, but it contributed to it because I had little healthy stimulation in my life during that time.
Doriss - when I first decided to seriously embark on sobriety in January 2014, it wasn't my worst period at all. I had tried to cut down prior for several months and was clearly drinking less frequently, but I almost found that more painful as I was actually trying to quit but constantly failed for what felt like a long time. It really undermined my self-esteem. But, more objectively speaking, I had much worse periods years before I even considered sobriety, both practically and mental health-wise. My alcoholism wasn't a linear progress in those domains. It was more linear on my physical health and endurance, but even that improved a bit when I was drinking less frequently. Cutting back that way didn't give me any satisfaction though, as I said it actually made me more conflicted and hating myself and the whole situation. 100% sobriety was the only solution. I did have a relatively brief relapse two years later, which lasted about 2 months and didn't really have serious consequences on my life but, again, the psychological effects were awful enough. I very quickly got back to exactly where I was for years with my pattern and quantity of drinking and sense of despair and failure. Anyway, I do not believe that we need a sort of "rock bottom" to quit, at least not everyone.
I am very grateful that I did not suffer major losses and one of those horror stories out there, before I resolved it. But maybe that's relative too as, subjectively, it was horrible enough in my mind and the binges routinely made me very sick for a couple days at least. I would describe the effect of my drinking more as a perpetual living way under my potential during those years, sometimes more other times less so. Lots of dismissed good opportunities, too. There is never a good reason to wait a single day with quitting for good. In many ways, I kept drinking so long because I could still kinda maintain or, more precisely, fake a certain level of functionality... but it just made me unhappy because I still constantly felt the huge space between my values/potential and what I was actually doing with my life. It took a while for me to find my bearings in sobriety but it was actually not that hard because I still had my original values, sense of self, and didn't need to build up a life again from ruins. I do find it has to come from within though as, in my experience, no amount if preaching, support, constructive criticism etc can help someone who is not making hard efforts to change.
Doriss - when I first decided to seriously embark on sobriety in January 2014, it wasn't my worst period at all. I had tried to cut down prior for several months and was clearly drinking less frequently, but I almost found that more painful as I was actually trying to quit but constantly failed for what felt like a long time. It really undermined my self-esteem. But, more objectively speaking, I had much worse periods years before I even considered sobriety, both practically and mental health-wise. My alcoholism wasn't a linear progress in those domains. It was more linear on my physical health and endurance, but even that improved a bit when I was drinking less frequently. Cutting back that way didn't give me any satisfaction though, as I said it actually made me more conflicted and hating myself and the whole situation. 100% sobriety was the only solution. I did have a relatively brief relapse two years later, which lasted about 2 months and didn't really have serious consequences on my life but, again, the psychological effects were awful enough. I very quickly got back to exactly where I was for years with my pattern and quantity of drinking and sense of despair and failure. Anyway, I do not believe that we need a sort of "rock bottom" to quit, at least not everyone.
I am very grateful that I did not suffer major losses and one of those horror stories out there, before I resolved it. But maybe that's relative too as, subjectively, it was horrible enough in my mind and the binges routinely made me very sick for a couple days at least. I would describe the effect of my drinking more as a perpetual living way under my potential during those years, sometimes more other times less so. Lots of dismissed good opportunities, too. There is never a good reason to wait a single day with quitting for good. In many ways, I kept drinking so long because I could still kinda maintain or, more precisely, fake a certain level of functionality... but it just made me unhappy because I still constantly felt the huge space between my values/potential and what I was actually doing with my life. It took a while for me to find my bearings in sobriety but it was actually not that hard because I still had my original values, sense of self, and didn't need to build up a life again from ruins. I do find it has to come from within though as, in my experience, no amount if preaching, support, constructive criticism etc can help someone who is not making hard efforts to change.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,499
Originally Posted by Doriss
I'm very happy this has happened for you 😊. What a great new start you can make in your career!
What do you fancy doing next?
I couldn't work in cold hard profit and finance type job (I'm too thick haha). And no way any job that kills the soul..slowly 😢
What do you fancy doing next?
I couldn't work in cold hard profit and finance type job (I'm too thick haha). And no way any job that kills the soul..slowly 😢
I would love to freely express my true opinion about things. I hate the polarisation that occurs on every topic at the moment, but I also think it's arrogant of many so-called 'business leaders' not to bother to look into what ordinary folk are increasingly believing. They don't have to buy into all of it, but surely there's a responsibility to understand where folk are coming from. I'd love to have a role in presenting controversial topics in a balanced way. For example, sit a bunch of suits down and say to them, this is what you need to know about Topic X if you are going to be a decision-maker. It's not about you believing it, it's about recognising that a growing number of your employees, your customers and your community believes it. And there's a huge risk for you if you think it's just stuff you can ignore.
I don't know beyond that idea. I have registered a domain name and started working on some content as a hobby. I actually wanted to take time off to plan it properly, prepare a website and come up with other ideas. I wouldn't need to maintain the same level of income, because my expenses are pretty low right now and the payout will allow me to extinguish some debt.
Originally Posted by Aellyce2
I wish you all the best for finding what inspires you next and I also admire you for being able to hold a job you hated - I know I would not be able to do that as I am so self-motivated, if that's lacking, nothing works and my so-called sense of responsibility goes out of the window. I had a job like that a long time ago for a couple years and everything went downhill pretty fast, including that was also the time when my drinking escalated to alcoholic levels. Of course the job was not to blame, but it contributed to it because I had little healthy stimulation in my life during that time.
I have been walking around celebrating my freedom knowing it's going to be over soon!
I'll get onto your other question about the last drink in another post Doriss, because this one has gone too long already.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,499
Originally Posted by Doriss
As you Miss P. Aellyce and Binimi Have stopped drinking, for what seems to me like eons, a week in. Would you say you went out with a bang with the last drink/drunk or sort of peter out?
I always thought I would stop because of some ultra bad thing happening. Or some big health crisis. Waiting for a bolt of lighting from the Gods to bring me to my senses.
I always thought I would stop because of some ultra bad thing happening. Or some big health crisis. Waiting for a bolt of lighting from the Gods to bring me to my senses.
The weekend I decided to quit I was engaging in a series of epic text rants with my boyfriend. He was overseas in a different time zone and I was sending him 10-12 angry texts at a time which he would see when he awoke. I was very angry about a particular issue which we had not resolved and probably never could have. On the Saturday, I would have drunk over 2 bottles of wine and I sent him my volley of texts before basically passing out. The final text I sent I said to him: I need to break this off and clean myself up. So I already knew.
The next day being a Sunday I socialised a bit. I had Christmas drinks in the afternoon at a friend's house but couldn't face the mulled wine. That night I had the remnants of the last bottle of wine, so perhaps about 2 glasses.
The next day I went to see a doctor and confessed my drinking and did clean up. I also broke up with the boyfriend by phone which we both knew was coming. When he did finish his trip, we had a final goodbye in person and he agreed at my request not to contact me for 6 months. I'm glad he kept his word because I needed that 6 months to focus exclusively on my sobriety. We are still friends.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Miss P - what you describe about the things you would like to do (and started doing, i.e. building a website) could be very compatible with some kind of consulting business, if you have specific areas of expertise. That could also integrate your background in finance well as there is a lot of necessity to deal with finances when running a private business. I just brought this up because consulting is what I do besides my other job, started a bit over 2 years ago, and find it very interesting and rewarding, a lot more now than my other job. Mine is always centered around science but a lot of it is also about strategy, how to create viable and productive projects, how to make decisions that will serve the purpose etc. I know many people who run similar businesses but in areas and in a manner that are more humanistic. The nature of starting something like that is also that it won't be very lucrative at the beginning, but there is ample freedom to take it anywhere you like.
One of my favorites is a friend who is a lawyer who had a corporate job for many years that she grew to dislike more and more. She eventually quit that world and now provides legal advice for people who experienced various kinds of abuse and traumas. My friend experienced a lot of abuse herself early in her life so she has that sort of subjective motivation to help as well, which is always good IMO. My research and consulting is centered a lot around addiction and treatment development - obviously a lot of personal inspiration there.
One of my favorites is a friend who is a lawyer who had a corporate job for many years that she grew to dislike more and more. She eventually quit that world and now provides legal advice for people who experienced various kinds of abuse and traumas. My friend experienced a lot of abuse herself early in her life so she has that sort of subjective motivation to help as well, which is always good IMO. My research and consulting is centered a lot around addiction and treatment development - obviously a lot of personal inspiration there.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
The Quit.
I had previously been sober many years so when my second drinking career started reminding me of my first (in my twenties) I knew I couldn't continue down that path in my fifties. So I cut way back, to one or two a day. But there were still some times that I wanted to drink and I did, I just did it in a safer manner - at home. I started buying handles of hard liquor and the drinking escalated from the one or two per day to now-and-then-12. Then those 12-a-days became more frequent, as they do.
So I cut back and started up, over and over.
One morning I woke after drinking too much and rolled out of bed and directly onto my knees. I cried out, "Help me."
That was in March of 2014. I hadn't made any kind of decision to quit again, but there it was. I had one last beer because I was really shaky, then the following day I had a half shot of rum. I threw everything away. I was done.
I had previously been sober many years so when my second drinking career started reminding me of my first (in my twenties) I knew I couldn't continue down that path in my fifties. So I cut way back, to one or two a day. But there were still some times that I wanted to drink and I did, I just did it in a safer manner - at home. I started buying handles of hard liquor and the drinking escalated from the one or two per day to now-and-then-12. Then those 12-a-days became more frequent, as they do.
So I cut back and started up, over and over.
One morning I woke after drinking too much and rolled out of bed and directly onto my knees. I cried out, "Help me."
That was in March of 2014. I hadn't made any kind of decision to quit again, but there it was. I had one last beer because I was really shaky, then the following day I had a half shot of rum. I threw everything away. I was done.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Miss P, awesome to hear your enthusiasm at the better opportunity to start your new venture and see a good opportunity come out of bad, so to speak.
Doriss, as to last drinks , big bangs vs petering out: i don't remember the actual last drinking. i do know i often tried the "last time,so need bigger bang" crazy attempts, though in general i pretty much drank the same amount each time.
the day i actually quit was not a planned one. i just kinda woke up to reality in a different way from before one morning and haven't drank since.
Doriss, as to last drinks , big bangs vs petering out: i don't remember the actual last drinking. i do know i often tried the "last time,so need bigger bang" crazy attempts, though in general i pretty much drank the same amount each time.
the day i actually quit was not a planned one. i just kinda woke up to reality in a different way from before one morning and haven't drank since.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: England
Posts: 315
Thank you Aellyce, Miss P, Bimini and fini for taking the trouble to tell of your last entanglement with the drink.
I have had plenty of horror stories myself, but as with what was said, my progression with the drink wasn't linear.
About 18 years ago I went to a few meetings. But it seemed everyone there had given up having reached some "bottom" or some "epiphany". I've hit plenty of desperate "never again" states, including hospital and nights in a police cell,injuries, health scares, relationships of every kind trouble, but seems I was falling down a bottomless pit!
Going out on that last whimper seems a good way to end it to me
I haven't lost my self to the drink, but it was getting there.
I have had help of all kinds, doctor, counselors, support groups, but again as was said, wasn't prepared to do it for myself. I thought I was, but all I had to do was not drink and I wasn't prepared to put up with the discomfort. Always finding "triggers" and other AV nonsense.
Thank you all again, those stories have been most helpful in changing the brainwashing of " final bottoms" I seemed to have succumbed to. Which I suppose sell the addiction memoirs better. The story always ends in a dramatic catastrophic bottom. Suppose it wouldn't be as exciting if it just ended with "I got sick of it, didn't like what it was turning me into or how it was making me feel and stopped doing it to myself"
Not that I'm taking away from the work you all must have put in to actually DO it and stick to it. Quite the opposite, I think it takes more gumption to take a hold of yourself and say "enough is enough" I want a different way of living. Than it does to be forced to stop by some catastrophic event
I have had plenty of horror stories myself, but as with what was said, my progression with the drink wasn't linear.
About 18 years ago I went to a few meetings. But it seemed everyone there had given up having reached some "bottom" or some "epiphany". I've hit plenty of desperate "never again" states, including hospital and nights in a police cell,injuries, health scares, relationships of every kind trouble, but seems I was falling down a bottomless pit!
Going out on that last whimper seems a good way to end it to me
I haven't lost my self to the drink, but it was getting there.
I have had help of all kinds, doctor, counselors, support groups, but again as was said, wasn't prepared to do it for myself. I thought I was, but all I had to do was not drink and I wasn't prepared to put up with the discomfort. Always finding "triggers" and other AV nonsense.
Thank you all again, those stories have been most helpful in changing the brainwashing of " final bottoms" I seemed to have succumbed to. Which I suppose sell the addiction memoirs better. The story always ends in a dramatic catastrophic bottom. Suppose it wouldn't be as exciting if it just ended with "I got sick of it, didn't like what it was turning me into or how it was making me feel and stopped doing it to myself"
Not that I'm taking away from the work you all must have put in to actually DO it and stick to it. Quite the opposite, I think it takes more gumption to take a hold of yourself and say "enough is enough" I want a different way of living. Than it does to be forced to stop by some catastrophic event
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: England
Posts: 315
Miss P turning something that you enjoy as a hobby into a career sounds good to me. Aellyce makes some good suggestions there too.
It's no good doing something you have no heart in. I cannot give any views on any career wise thing, because I've never had one!
I couldn't work where I wouldn't be able to work with people. I couldn't for instance work with just dealing in ideas and business strategies etc.
I think whatever profession you work in these days you are not allowed to speak your mind on anything. You must always follow the official line. Even in the caring professions. Seems common sense, being a grown up and being able to blend different points of views and ideas are not the done thing now.
Being your own boss, would at least give you a chance to show some individuality
It's no good doing something you have no heart in. I cannot give any views on any career wise thing, because I've never had one!
I couldn't work where I wouldn't be able to work with people. I couldn't for instance work with just dealing in ideas and business strategies etc.
I think whatever profession you work in these days you are not allowed to speak your mind on anything. You must always follow the official line. Even in the caring professions. Seems common sense, being a grown up and being able to blend different points of views and ideas are not the done thing now.
Being your own boss, would at least give you a chance to show some individuality
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I personally never find it very useful to compare the quantity we drank as tolerance and other things involved in how our bodies and minds deal with the alcohol varies greatly depending on individual physiology and many other things. There have been various threads here on SR where people were curious as to how much and how frequently everyone had drunk. It can be interesting to see that, but can also create a lot of misperceptions if not taken with a critical mind.
For example, based on what I did, I can't conclude anything else but that I must have a really high level of biological resilience. That pattern of binge drinking I did for about 8 years in my 30s (and relapse in my early 40s)... of course it had built up gradually but for many years I would polish off easily and routinely within a few hours (<a day) at least a fifth of vodka/rum 2-3-4 times a week, and often more than that, about a liter or even a bit more during one bender (which, for me, was usually 1-2 days in a row). Considering my size - I was and still am around 130 lbs for a 5'8" height, so quite slim - that amount of alcohol could potentially have killed many others during a short period of acute consumption. I did experience many, many horrible hangovers, many that went way beyond the shakes and not showing up at work, many occasions where I was quite convinced of being at the verge of a seizure, DTs, had really weird symptoms and I was praying for my life... but not really. I would just white-knuckle that first day and then...as we know, bounced back a bit, rinse repeat. Just saying this to illustrate that the amount of alcohol consumed may not be very meaningful here, I think it is more the complex effects of whatever kind of drinking we had done and how it impacted our lives. Again, every single day is good enough to stop it!
For example, based on what I did, I can't conclude anything else but that I must have a really high level of biological resilience. That pattern of binge drinking I did for about 8 years in my 30s (and relapse in my early 40s)... of course it had built up gradually but for many years I would polish off easily and routinely within a few hours (<a day) at least a fifth of vodka/rum 2-3-4 times a week, and often more than that, about a liter or even a bit more during one bender (which, for me, was usually 1-2 days in a row). Considering my size - I was and still am around 130 lbs for a 5'8" height, so quite slim - that amount of alcohol could potentially have killed many others during a short period of acute consumption. I did experience many, many horrible hangovers, many that went way beyond the shakes and not showing up at work, many occasions where I was quite convinced of being at the verge of a seizure, DTs, had really weird symptoms and I was praying for my life... but not really. I would just white-knuckle that first day and then...as we know, bounced back a bit, rinse repeat. Just saying this to illustrate that the amount of alcohol consumed may not be very meaningful here, I think it is more the complex effects of whatever kind of drinking we had done and how it impacted our lives. Again, every single day is good enough to stop it!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: England
Posts: 315
Yes, also the amount of damage done by years of previous drinking. My liver function tests are shocking. But a doctor once made the fatal mistake of telling me a liver function test will always come out with bad results a day after drinking. He told me a lot of other stuff, about the steady damage being done. But I am very selective in my hearing when it comes to doctors.
I didn't used to believe in kindling, still don't know if it's true, but it takes less drinks now that it used to to set off withdrawals that used to only come with mega binges. Especially the doomsday anxiety and agitation, can sometimes last for days.
I agree, comparing yourself to other drinkers, is not a good idea. For one thing I only compared myself to the drinkers "worse" than me, ie drank more, so I could make myself not feel the "worst" drinker in the world. I skipped the people having problems with drink but still drank much less than me,
I worked in pubs a lot when I was younger and everyone had their "I am not as bad as such and such" person. It's the AV at work.
You will only see in someone else's story what you want to find, to justify your own drinking if you don't want to stop
I didn't used to believe in kindling, still don't know if it's true, but it takes less drinks now that it used to to set off withdrawals that used to only come with mega binges. Especially the doomsday anxiety and agitation, can sometimes last for days.
I agree, comparing yourself to other drinkers, is not a good idea. For one thing I only compared myself to the drinkers "worse" than me, ie drank more, so I could make myself not feel the "worst" drinker in the world. I skipped the people having problems with drink but still drank much less than me,
I worked in pubs a lot when I was younger and everyone had their "I am not as bad as such and such" person. It's the AV at work.
You will only see in someone else's story what you want to find, to justify your own drinking if you don't want to stop
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,499
Everyone who has quit and tells their story about quitting would also invariably leave out numerous incidents of embarrassment, damage and sickness leading up to the final drink. There are too many. A few people on SR have mentioned that they wrote down all they could remember about their drunkenness, and I think that's one good way to demonstrate the toll to yourself and the AV.
Thank you Aellyce and all who chimed in with suggestions and good wishes. I am quite sure I will indeed create a form of work / consultancy out of my passion. I really cannot work for anothercult large business again and feel muzzled and like I have to march in step to some brand and corporate mission. In my 30s, when I was still drinking, I left a job that was actually more awful and soul-destroying than my current one, based in the City of London and very, very prestigious in a school ties and boys' clubs way. I was out of the workforce for 18 months, and because I had money saved up and some freelance work through a wealthy client managed to survive.
I could write a neat list of how my drinking led to terrible choices that time and caused such waste. The only good thing that came out of it was the lesson that I can survive on my own and maybe that I know the basic steps of working for myself, which I'll use now. But ... I spent money irresponsibly that I couldn't afford to, had no discipline to build a proper foundation for myself and did not look after my health at all. It's quite different now.
The lesson for me is that big life changes like this cannot be properly navigated without sobriety!
Thank you Aellyce and all who chimed in with suggestions and good wishes. I am quite sure I will indeed create a form of work / consultancy out of my passion. I really cannot work for another
I could write a neat list of how my drinking led to terrible choices that time and caused such waste. The only good thing that came out of it was the lesson that I can survive on my own and maybe that I know the basic steps of working for myself, which I'll use now. But ... I spent money irresponsibly that I couldn't afford to, had no discipline to build a proper foundation for myself and did not look after my health at all. It's quite different now.
The lesson for me is that big life changes like this cannot be properly navigated without sobriety!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Have any of you guys had dreams involving this thread, or sort of (projections, obviously). I don't usually engage this much in any SR thread these days,but do tend to have very vivid dreams in general. I did last night and it was seemingly all-night and epic. Wont say anything more unless you guys want to hear.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,499
Originally Posted by Aellyce2
Have any of you guys had dreams involving this thread, or sort of (projections, obviously). I don't usually engage this much in any SR thread these days,but do tend to have very vivid dreams in general. I did last night and it was seemingly all-night and epic. Wont say anything more unless you guys want to hear.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
