Philemon

Thanks Surrender, I think I have just become one lazy person and sitting around waiting, is an excuse for a lazy person too feel like they are actually doing something!
I agree, counting they days has become a countdown to the next drink basically.
I have filled my world and mind with dark things and thoughts, all thanks to the drink and then wonder why I can't find any peace and beauty in anything. We really do make our own reality.

Aellyce

I don't count sober time either - it can become an obsession on its own. I did count when ventured into recovery for the very first time in 2014 and got a sense of accomplishment from it for a while. But not after a relapse - I just felt I knew so much about addiction and recovery and still relapsed, it just made me more depressed to track the time. I also don't think that people who have fought this for a long time and tried many things go back to square one. I think even the fear of relapse can contribute to precipitating one.

I agree that sitting and waiting is not a good idea. You said that you lost your job during the pandemic - do you want to find a new one or are you looking? That can perhaps give some purpose beyond just thinking about the addiction all day. Or if not that, maybe pick another area of your life you would like to improve and set a couple small goals. Doing some cleaning in the house and yard are definitely good ones, maybe schedule something similar for every day? Maybe some online meetings as well. I liked SMART, too. Recently, I have been looking at a 12-step program for another problem behavior and it's interesting to learn about and hearing others even just against boredom.

Philemon

Yes Aellyce2 , good idea, I aim to set small goals for everyday. I think at this stage in my drinking, where I have tried every method, my biggest enemy is just plain discouragement.
Throwing my obsessive self into just one method or one solution just hasn't worked. So I'm going to just pick the best bits out of each that helps, but actually focus on the fact that the most important thing is to NOT DRINK, not the semantics of the method.
I'm ready to have another crack at it anyway.
I will look for another job when things open up a bit more. Public transport still very limited where I am and still a lot of places closed.
I will go back to SMART and join some online meetings, sometimes they are awkward UK time wise though and last time I looked there were none being held on UK site. No chance of a F2F one for the next goodness knows how long!
I fancy looking into the Jainism religion, that would be interesting. I did have a couple of hobbies I can do from home I could take up again.
Could come up with things to keep me occupied if I tried hard enough And stop watching the news and morbid youtube channels haha

MissPerfumado

Hi Doriss, I came late to the thread and read through it as you progressed from despair and self-loathing to developing a plan to stop and tackle a couple jobs that will improve things. It was great to see. Tidying cupboards where junk went to die was something I did in early sobriety too, it is very satisfying.

You have a lot of tools, this is evident. These tools will be instrumental in helping you stop.

I know you're unhappy it was only 8 days, but it was 8 sober days and you learned something about what your major weakness is: having no defences against the AV's temptation. For me, the obvious answer would be that, in addition to weeding the garden and sorting that cupboard, you could write a list headed:

"Things I will do when I get the urge to drink"

Those sorts of lists were in my recovery plan.

I still have my recovery plan, by the way. I found it the other day - a small pink spiral notebook with a plan full of lists that I wrote and re-wrote about 5 times.

Also, I'm a big one for joining the July class. That helped me immensely.

Philemon

Thanks MissP, yes, I felt certainly felt better after the replies I got, instead of sitting beating myself over the head with a big stick (with a nail in it).
I do that often and I can't say it has ever done a scrap of good, just makes me feel tired and hopeless.

You are right, my big trip up point is having no defences against the AV, except, you are also right, I do have lots of tools I have picked up over the years, I just don't use them. They are rusting in the toolbox. This is typical of me, the other day I knocked a nail in the wall with a wrench because I was too lazy to go and find the hammer, which I had left somewhere because I was too lazy to put it back into the toolbox after I had used it! I amaze myself sometimes with just how lazy I have become.
I haven't seen anyone stay stopped drinking by saying "I can't be arsed to do such and such" Yet, I have still been trying to get away with doing that.

You have done really well, but you have put the work in and utilised everything you have at your disposal, all respect to you for that.
I will give the July class a go, don't know why I'm so reluctant.
Thank you for your advice and ideas

MaximusD

Come on over to the July class Doriss. There are plenty of us who just quit in there and we support each other. A few of us were in the June class then graduated....or....well yeah we are in the July class now.

Philemon

Have done thanks
I am determined to sticking to doing what I say I'm going to do this time. In everything. Although I really really do not want to open that cupboard door fully and see how much sheer junk is in there. I'm sure some therapist would have a field day with the interpretation of that resistance

Kaily

I think another thing to do is savour the disappointment/regret you felt by drinking the other day, and call on it when the next urge comes along.

My life hasn't changed massively since I stopped drinking. I am still very lonely and isolated but I live with it rather than blotting it out. And I am a very much I will do it tomorrow kinda girl. I thought sobriety would somehow magically come and find me if my life got better. No. I worked like hell for it and am I am very proud that I did. I was almost sunk without trace.

You can do it too.

Aellyce

You can figuratively sort out many areas of your life similarly to that cupboard, just need to schedule and get started. I am pretty sure it will feel very rewarding - both the actual cupboard and the other domains. Like you say, it is usually just hard to begin, but it's better not to wait for inspiration before starting, I think we get much more easily motivated once a bit in the zone and see some result

Philemon

Hi Kaily and Aellyce, thanks for your posts.
I'm looking at this recovery as a multi layered sort of thing.
First and foremost, don't drink. I like AVRT for that. Any thoughts or feelings that support the use of alcohol are just ignored. I've already done this sort of thing with by OCD in the past and ignoring a compulsion, no matter how strong, is not impossible and gets easier the more you do it. OCD doesn't bother me that much now, hasn't for years. I didn't argue with the compulsion in my head, I didn't try to talk myself out of it, I just ignored it.
No the wonder AVRT appeals to me, although until very recently (yesterday) I never put the compulsion to drink and the OCD together. And yes, AVRT method of ignoring the "bark of theBeast" is exactly the same as I did for years with other things.
The trick is though, not to go and agree with the AV (the bark of the Beast) and when I want escape, I do go along with it. Add to that the actual physical desire to drink (the Beast itself) it ends up twice as hard to ignore than a "normal" compulsive thought.
That added physical compulsion to the mental one, is what made me not recognise what this is!

SMART helps a lot with my anxiety which is a massive part of my excuse to throw in the towel and not just ignore the AV. But I used CBT for my anxiety before I even started using drink.
So I do have other things I can use apart from alcohol.
The physical cravings, I have sat through those numerous times, very bad ones, when I've been coming down from the drink and my body physically needs it but I cannot afford anymore. So they are not insurmountable either.

I haven't just been stuck in a cycle of days on and off the drink. I've been in a cycle of use the drink for my anxiety and emotional pain, stop the drink, anxiety etc gets is worse because of the drink and because I make more strife for myself, use the drink again. Never giving myself a chance to get other methods of coping in place, or even enough time between binges to even begin to right the wonky brain chemistry drink has caused.

I never have given enough time for my relationships with family and friends to heal either.
So I'm just thinking now, I'm living in a life with very damaged relationships I have left in my wake. Uncontrolled anxiety and wonky brain chemistry between binges. Having to suffer the physical cravings when I'm coming down anyway. But with it continuing forever if I don't stop drinking.
So why am I not just enduring these things I am anyway and not drinking so things at least have a chance to heal?

I'm glad there are people on here like you Kaily and Alleyce, and others. To show it can be done, but not without any work

Philemon

Well, didn't do what I said I was going to do..surprise!!
The grandkids came so I spent the afternoon playing computer games.
I was still up for doing the chores I had set. But then my daughter who lives away phoned. She has been offhand with me for ages, we had a fight last week because she blamed me for something I simply wasn't to blame for.
Actually, pathetic as it sounds, that's the "reason" (excuse) I drank last week. I know kids have to break away and live their own lives, but I'm finding her, my only daughter and my youngest really hard to lose.
We used to be very close. I did used to binge drink when she was younger, not as bad as I have when left to my own devices, but still bad for a child.
She has never seemed to hold a grudge, which I was grateful for. But I think now, it was because she was young and naive. Now she's an ultra responsible adult, I think she just looks at me with disdain.
The phone call ended when her fiance came in. As we hadn't been on the phone long and I hate talking to someone on the phone with other people there I asked if she would give me a ring today (I haven't spoken to her for a week while she was working and she has 5 days off). She said "I'm not going to ring you every day I am off" (I didn't ask her to). And called me NEEDY!!! wth??
So I didn't feel like doing anything chore wise because I go all lethargic when I'm rejected (not needy AT ALL haha)

Think I've left it too late to give up the drink to salvage a lot of my relationships. Not that people are holding grudges about one particular incident, just think I have worn people down with all that goes with binge drinking and they have just withdrawn

Philemon

Do you know, a couple of friends have gotton in touch since I wrote the last post and one of my other kids sent me a funny video of one of my grandchildren and my mood has entirely lifted.
My moods are entirely dependant on the people around me, which is not good.
There are SMART tools for this. I'm going to have to go and practice these

MissPerfumado

Hi Doriss, I actually thought when I read your prior post that you were being a bit over-reactive to your daughter and perceiving as rejection what might just be annoyance on her part. Her irritation may not even have much to do with you - perhaps she was tired from work.

I think many of us do this however - you're definitely not alone. But it's the next few steps that matter, like whether we can then soothe ourselves and talk ourselves out of a bad place emotionally.

There are also CBT techniques that can help with smoothing over negative feelings.

You do a lot of processing through your writing here. It seems to have positive results. You are actually really quite good at it. I'd encourage it, even if sometimes you don't get an immediate reply from the SR community, it does seem to lead you to a much better place in just a few posts.

Philemon

Thanks Miss P You are very perceptive. I do process my thoughts and feelings better by getting them out of my head, writing them down and trying to look objectively at them. Even if sometimes I do have a bit of a convoluted route from A to B haha

SMART does use CBT and REBT (and a few new things once I've gone back and had a look ).

The added bonus of writing this out here is that people can point things out I may have missed.
And like you, point out things from a different perspective, that I am too emotionally involved and over sensitive to see, like my daughter might just have been tired and grumpy herself Thanks x

biminiblue

I feel like alcohol destroys healthy boundaries between people. I'm not sure how it happens, but perhaps it is due to the increased sensitivity of the nervous system that occurs with heavy drinking. It could also be that alcohol just creates delusional thinking in general and close personal relationships are where that is most evident.

Most alcoholics also need help with codependency and enmeshed relationships. I would recommend doing some reading about that - it was hugely important to me that I got a grip on my over-involvement with other people.

I really liked the older book, "The Dance of Anger."

Philemon

I'll have a look at that biminiblue thanks.
I did a lot of work in therapy years ago on boundries and relationships. I don't know what's wrong with me with my daughter. Just having a lot of trouble letting this last chick fly, maybe because we were so close.
Of course she doesn't want to be hanging on my apron strings when she's about to get married and have her own family, it would be unhealthy if she did.
She says I need a man to occupy me (I'll forgive her for saying that as she's young and in love). But I won't forgive her for saying I need to join a local "knit and natter" group because I'm "at that age" I'm 52, knit and natter? Knit and natter? What she means is I need a life and I'd agree with that.
But I do agree the drink does mess with the nervous system and emotions and does have a lot to do with this situation between me and her.
I know she has a lot of anger towards me under the surface, but don't know how to broach it with her as she shuts down if I try.

biminiblue

As that daughter with that mother myself?

Let go.

Don't broach it. She has anger and it's hers. It's not unusual between mothers and daughters. Especially daughters of a certain age, yeah?

I told my mom the same thing. I was right and she did remarry but it was years later after she worked out her own issues. For most of my teen years she was angry herself due to two failed marriages - and drinking alone in front of the TV on the weekends. It wasn't healthy for her or for me that she had no social life. It was really uncomfortable for me to have so much attention focused on my every word and action. She tried so hard to control everything about me. I was so glad to be away at 18 and I pretty much stayed away from her as much as possible. She wasn't a falling down "drunk" or mean physically - just emotionally draining.

Philemon

Up until a few years ago, I was in a relationship. I wouldn't say I was angry at anything or anybody, as I said, I had intensive long term therapy and have learnt to recognise and deal with my anger more healthily. I don't drink from anger, infact I would say that is the emotion I know how to deal with and have resolved the most, it's the rest of them I have trouble with haha

You are right though, there is no way I could get involved in a relationship while I am drinking, unless it was an extremely unhealthy one.
You are right too, it's not my place to dictate when and if she wishes to express her own emotions to me. I never thought of it that way.
I do know it's painful letting go of "my girl" and standing back while she becomes her own woman.
But if I carry on like this, I know I will lose her altogether. Who wants a clingy nagging witch of a mother hanging around their necks? I certainly would't have either.
You've given me food for thought here biminiblue, thanks

Philemon

I'm starting to see things from another angle now. Yesterday I was upset because my daughter set down perfectly healthy boundaries with me. She has every right to manage her own life and not let me and my insecurities dictate what she does.
I always taught her to know her own mind, trust her own feelings, set her own boundaries, not let anyone railroad her into meeting their needs at the expense of her own.
She is making the life she wants for herself. She has a good career and is about to be married to a truly lovely man.

It is about time I looked to my own life and sorted myself out, instead of trying to hang on like death to hers.
If I pull myself together with the drink and let go of the mother smothering, she might actually want to spend some time with me now and again, because it is enjoyable!
But I do draw the line at knit and natter, c'mon, knit and natter?? 😒

biminiblue

Hey, I wouldn't sneer at the knit and natter!

I'm assuming that would be a group of women who get together to do handicrafts? Some of the stuff they make is really incredible. I go to the Fair and see the stuff and the camaraderie and it really seems like a good idea to me. Plus making friends and learning a skill that's saleable. One of the groups I visited was a stained glass group. They made some beautiful stained glass things, ornaments to jewelry boxes, glass in curio cabinets to windows for houses. All women. Ages 25-70. It's not all old ladies. They sold their stuff for big money and it wasn't that hard to learn.

I think she just wanted to encourage you to plug in somewhere with women who could offer companionship and fun. A book club or a women's league of volunteers would be the same thing. A Bible study, a womens' AA meeting - volunteering at the animal shelter...

It doesn't sound half bad to me.