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Old 07-15-2020, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Aellyce2 View Post
Dosiss - have you explored H.G. Tudor's website? It's not for the faint of heart and probably not for early sobriety, but definitely about one aspect you shared about yourself. Can be better than alcohol, if you are committed and daring. I was there for a few months because I identified with the owner of the blog... sadly.

The blogger is one of the deepest introspective person I've met, who makes a business out of it and still does it - it is ridiculous but can be irresistible if you have that "predisposition". As I said, not for the faint of heart, and *addiction warning*.
"the deepest introspective person I've met" also gets more and more superficial and shallow as you progress trying to get to know him... that was a major way I learned I didn't have this personality disorder, in the end.

They don't want and perhaps really can't change. We can!
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Doriss View Post
Hi Miss P thanks for posting. The age thing, as long as I don't look in the mirror, I am 25 like I feel in my mind haha. Marathons? And weight training? Walking a bit fast with my shopping bags is as much as I can manage, admire you for that!
Relationships with men, to tell you the truth I gave up a long time ago.
I am a narcissist magnet, I'm not talking vain type narcissist here but clinical narcissistic personality disorder type narcissist. Even before I started drinking. I am a bonafide nutter magnet, romantic wise or just random stranger wise.. If you ever get the chance to hear comedian Jasper Carrott and his "nutter on the bus" routine, that's my life that is. I can't imagine you being any sort of deranged banshee, shows you the delights drink can bestow on a person!
Mentioning blackouts, I had loads, they always scared the life out of me, then they became "normal" which is even more scary. I even had blackouts where one minute I'm in one place and the next minute in another entirely different one. Madness!
I had to go check out Jasper Carrott's routine and it was very funny. It reminds me of a trip I took to the Isle of Wight one time when I was living in the UK and took a bus from Ryde to Yarmouth. Every time a particularly colourful local got off the bus, he or she would be promptly replaced by another eccentric individual, which made me wonder if it was a rule on the Isle of Wight that every bus must have one aboard to operate.

Your story of the bank queue also brought back memories of inordinately polite, non-grumbling British people. It made me think of the ubiquitous 'polite notice'. Written pronouncements stipulating that the public do or not do something would be apologetically prefaced by the words: 'polite notice'. Just like hearing the words 'I'm so sorry...' from a stranger often meant I'd done something utterly embarrassing and I was the one who should apologise. I could go on and on. I really loved it.

I also agree with Bimini (hi Bimini and thanks for the call-out!) that the thoughts will get less obsessive with sobriety. I had terrible anxiety and paranoia when I was drinking and I am quite a trusting person in general. So much of the mental stuff turns around. I had quite a pink cloud when I sobered up and was generally in great spirits, but the anxiety would come and go for a few months. When having to speak in public, I was still getting the odd panic attack for up to 2 years after I got sober. Oh the alcohol truly messes up the wiring. Well and truly. Which is why I think it might be good to give it a bit of time before working on whatever dynamics might be affecting the relationship with your daughter.
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:28 AM
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Aellyce hi I had a quick look over that website, It's definitely the sort of thing I am interested in. I'm going to go and have a proper read in a minute.
It will be useful too, because the ex, who I haven't heard from in years, he did a really good discard job on me, just emailed me a few days ago.
I knew he would be in touch at sometime over this lockdown situation because those kinds of people cannot be alone.
So from being ghosted a couple of years ago when I tried to find out what the heck had happened to him, I'm now " the best mate he's ever had" 😂
Thank you for telling me about that, could come in handy. Although, will come in handy for myself too, I think all drinkers display NPD traits, whether they have the disorder or not
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:34 AM
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Starting day 17 here. Been a year since I seriously started getting sober. It’s not easy. Keep trying it’s worth it.
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Old 07-15-2020, 04:03 AM
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Miss P just lost the post I have written to you, internet went down as I pressed send!! Bloody annoying! Hi Khorhey, good going Thanks for the encouragement
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Old 07-15-2020, 06:22 AM
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Hi (again) Miss P. I really like Jasper Carrot. I pulled a muscle laughing at him once.
The Isle of Wight is a lovely place. David Icke lives there. Some would call him a nutter but he researches his stuff soundly and a lot of what he says makes sense to me!
Yeah sometimes people are too polite. I can’t tolerate queue jumpers but I’ve seenp stand and say nothing when someone pushes in front of them.
The nutter on the bus is very common here, sometimes it’s the driver 😂
I know that “apology” where they are implying that you need to apologise,
I’m glad you agree with Bimini that the mental stuff calms down a bit as time goes on.
Things are less fraught with my daughter so I’m not going to be doing anything to rock the boat. She told me some very painful truths yesterday. Not to be mean, just stuff that I would rather not hear. But some other stuff that was really useful.


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Old 07-15-2020, 06:23 AM
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Hi (again) Miss P. I really like Jasper Carrot. I pulled a muscle laughing at him once.
The Isle of Wight is a lovely place. David Icke lives there. Some would call him a nutter but he researches his stuff soundly and a lot of what he says makes sense to me!
Yeah sometimes people are too polite. I can’t tolerate queue jumpers but I’ve seen people stand and say nothing when someone pushes in front of them.
The nutter on the bus is very common here, sometimes it’s the driver 😂
I know that “apology” where they are implying that you need to apologise,
I’m glad you agree with Bimini that the mental stuff calms down a bit as time goes on.
Things are less fraught with my daughter so I’m not going to be doing anything to rock the boat. She told me some very painful truths yesterday. Not to be mean, just stuff that I would rather not hear. But some other stuff that was really useful.



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Old 07-15-2020, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Aellyce2 View Post
"the deepest introspective person I've met" also gets more and more superficial and shallow as you progress trying to get to know him... that was a major way I learned I didn't have this personality disorder, in the end.

They don't want and perhaps really can't change. We can!
You like that guy's blog? Did you previously think you might be a narcissist or the empath?

That guy is creepy, to me.

Been with a couple narcs. Not going there again, even though they are fun for a minute. They're pretty easy to spot!

To be fair though - in America these guys are everywhere so dodging them is a bit problematic.
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Old 07-15-2020, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by biminiblue View Post
You like that guy's blog? Did you previously think you might be a narcissist or the empath?

That guy is creepy, to me.

Been with a couple narcs. Not going there again, even though they are fun for a minute. They're pretty easy to spot!

To be fair though - in America these guys are everywhere so dodging them is a bit problematic.
I didn't like the blog, but I was drawn to it for a while because some personality evaluations gave me hints that I might have psychopathic traits. So, not from the empath (that I could never fake, another sign I didn't have disorders like NPD or borderline... I cannot fake that even with all the cognitive) side but from his. I kept reading, even participated for a while, and discovered many similarities between him and myself, which I also sometimes shared on the blog. In the end though, it pulled together better and I confidently concluded I was not that similar and don't have this life-long issue. Some traits, yes, but not NPD or ASPD. I do still think I have some psychopathic traits. You can tell me all the way you want how horrible some motives are, and abused people can share, and I still don't feel it... but I know it is wrong and that perception will stop me cognitively. Like the discussion on my thread the other day. I don't act out as he does, including in this business of his. When I was on the blog, I constantly wanted to scream to the empaths there "don't you see where you are? what you are reinforcing? education and all...that it is the same cycle?" But then just lost interest after a while. It was useful though because I could easily identify in his system as a "normal" with some narcissistic/psychopathic traits. I think he is very smart and does some good and very accurate things but, as said before, not for the faint of heart learning experience. I think his brain works in a particular way and does not see a version of the same cycle in this business, which may be because of how he is... his brain, genetics, epigenetics, whatever.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:33 PM
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Interesting site. I have quite a few books on the NPD person. I used to like Lisa E Scotts website and I have read all of Sam Vaknins stuff.
One thing I have learnt is that the psychopath/sociopath (not sure which one of these my ex was, hard to tell apart) is not capable of feeling real emotions, apart from anger. They are a mirage of what they think you want them to be, in the beginning. They mimic normal emotions so you don't realize that they can't feel them.
They are empty shells of human beings who use other people only for their "narcissistic supply"
There is no cure for it, infact they wouldn't want to be cured because they think they are superior to us wretched mortals who let our emotions "rule" us. We are vastly inferior to their good selves. Could go on and on.
Pity I only started to read what I had been dealing with after the last one I split with

Bad day today, my cheque cleared at the bank and I have spent the whole day ignoring cravings. Finished off the front garden, picked my grandson up from school, played and got beat at Fortnite on computer by him, going to bed to watch a film even though it's only 8.30pm
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:46 PM
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Ignoring cravings is par for the course in the beginning. If you didn't drink, I'm going to call that a good (but somewhat annoying chatter-head) day.

8:30 is about my bedtime every day!
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:47 PM
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Oh yeah, funniest thing, the ex emailed again even though I didn't answer his last one.
Just his phone number. This same man who just pissed off and sent me a text, along the lines of "do not try to find me, I am changing my phone number and email, I am staying with a friend for a while, I am thinking of moving abroad"😂 Funny now.
He can go and bloody hoover one of his other ex's. Actually probably is, probably just wrote a generic hoover letter and copied and pasted onto the emails to all his ex's 😂
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Doriss View Post
No biminblue there isn't. And yes, it's worrying things have gotton so bad death is the lesser of two evils
Hi Doriss -- I've missed a lot of this thread and am going back and reading through it. I met that point and still drank for years. Pretended to cut back a little by watering my drinks lol!

Some of us here have had a lot of family members die of drink. Those can be long, slow, extremely painful deaths. Don't kid yourself that that door is the pleasanter choice.

Back to reading!
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:38 PM
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:54 PM
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Sorry for the empty space -- story of my life

Have read through the thread, seems like you're no longer in that "death behind one door, which oh which should I choose" state -- good thing!

Personally, I didn't find so-called deep introspection into psychology did me any good in early recovery, or really, at any time. It was like a red herring. Leading me away from the top priority, which was stop drinking, lead a decent life. I'd get myself all convinced that some other person had insight into all my problems, or the problems of those around me, and forget that insight wasn't what I needed.

You're sounding much healthier.
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Old 07-15-2020, 02:31 PM
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Hi Courage, thanks for your post. I LOVE deep introspection Human psychology has been my hobby for about 30 years. I find it fascinating. I like to see other peoples perspectives on things too. Fascinating. It doesn't take away from my not drinking priorities. Or my ability to try and lead a decent life
I don't need insight to stop drinking, but insight into some of the things that bother me while not drinking, makes me more comfortable in my own head. And I like the insights other people have too. Not as a solution to fixing my problems, but because I like looking at things from all angles.
Yes, my family is wracked with alcoholism too. Both my parents, one set of grandparents, my grandmother, countless uncles, one aunt and one of my sons. Of course I wouldn't choose to die of it. I was being melodramatic and self-pitying haha
Horses for courses and all that
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:40 PM
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I hung around sites that discussed NPD for quite a while after my longest relationship, with someone who had a lot of narcissistic traits. That relationship did not help my alcoholism, though it wasn't to blame. He was self-aggrandising, cultivated an air of mystery, had loads of bogus charm (which I fell for) and could be loving one minute then witheringly critical the next. Looking back, I don't know how I could have been so taken in by his fakeness, but it was the 'love' that he offered that sucked me in. When one is immature and relies on external validation like I did, that kind of 'love' is completely captivating. I think that's what narcissists identify and take immediate advantage of. Eight years of that ... it really put me off relationships for a long time.

Ever since I've had a mental checklist of NPD in my head and I test out all romantic interests against it. What I found is that most people can display some narcissistic traits if you look hard enough but once you've spent enough time with a true narcissist, you have a pretty good barometer.

Doriss, I have time for Icke (in doses) - he's extremely controversial of course but he was a trailblazer and I admire his courage. I'll just leave that there and not say further.

Stay close and think of something else you can put that money towards. Think of how wretched you will feel if you go out and buy and drink booze. Play the tape forward. It will be misery.

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Old 07-15-2020, 10:34 PM
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Hi Miss P Yes, if I knew in the past what I know now, I could have saved myself a lot of trouble.
I think my father had NPD, I used to think it was the drink that made him act like he did. But then as I got older he had some pretty long stints off it, due to his health. His behaviour was the same basically. He saw us all as HIS possessions, wanted to control everything about us, even our thoughts. Which ended in me being very rebellious, leaving home young and having problems with any "authority" figures.

And yet? I ended up with most controlling men possible. Being brought up by someone with NPD I think disables your psychic alarm system. You don't realise they are acting abnormally, you believe what they say about you, that you have all of this grief brought down upon your head because of the way YOU act. When with hindsight, you are just trying to set up healthy normal boundaries. They don't like this. You have no boundaries in their mind, you are just an extension of them, you only exist to serve their need for narcissistic supply, positive or negative, doesn't matter.
I have a narcissistic playlist in my head now, bit late!
I think everyone has some narcissistic traits, personality disorders are just normal human personality traits and emotions taken to the extreme, to the exclusion of other normal personality traits and emotions.
Yes, love doesn't exist for a these people, only supply. Faking love is just a way to get the fish on the line.

And never never admit to any of your faults to one haha. They suck information from you about yourself in the guise of getting to know each other and turn it into bullets to use against you at a later date. As in, they do something mean and cruel, you protest and to minimize their action and make you feel you are over blowing things they will say stuff like "you said yourself you are sometimes over sensitive about ......"

Yes that money is earmarked, not that that ever stopped me in the past. I have to watch today, in the past I have gone through a none drinking pay day struggling not to drink, then drank the next day.
Today though am going to be busy. Have my oldest grandchild to babysit (his school hasn't reopened) and my littler one to pick up from school.
Also, my landlady is coming tomorrow, so have to scrub this house to within an inch of it's life and clear some bush cuttings out of the garden that I was too tired (lazy) to bag up yesterday. And it has been pouring with rain all night, so that will be a joy

I went to bed early last night, but went to sleep late and up at 5 so a bit tired.

Yes, David Icke has been censored all over the internet now. I buy his books though, so enjoy rereading those as they are a lot to take in first read.

Enjoy your day Miss P
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:59 AM
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Teabreak... So tired today, like a wrung out dishrag. I'm halfway through the housework. What's the saying? Feel the tiredness and do it anyway? I'm usually ok once I actually start a job, pick up more energy as I go. I think cutting down those bushes yesterday, did me in!
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:59 AM
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From all I know, being highly introspective is not so much a choice, more a trait in some people. Then it's just something that goes on in one's mind regularly and, at least for me, it is very interesting and rewarding. I think the kind of introspection when someone is very prone to dwelling on negative things and insecurities, a lot of self-flagellation, can be stressful, but that's not what I do personally. It's just one of the most interesting things to understand psychological mechanisms and the brain - that's why I also do that as a job. I don't think it has to compete with constructive action and be either or. Of course if it is, that's a problem. But I personally don't think I would have been able to stay sober without understanding my triggers, what I needed to deal with differently, and how.

I've never been in a relationship with very narcissistic people but from the encounters I had with some that definitely qualified for NPD, I learned I was a very bad combo with them. I don't tolerate manipulation from anyone. A few times I had to deal with such people in professional contexts, it didn't end well, they can really bring out my ugly side. One of them was a psychotherapist I saw for a while and we ended up in some of the worst conflicts and fights I've ever had with anyone. I should have just left without fighting with him as it was completely pointless, his behavior was also very chaotic and self-centered, that "therapy" was everything but healing. He also had amazingly little self-awareness for a therapist that I could not even believe at the time and thought he was consciously manipulative, but what I learned from HG Tudor later confirmed that many of these guys are not that smart at all and they don't truly know what they are doing and are more just acting in the moment for the instant gratification they get from their "supply" (HG calls that "fuel"). Hard to understand for someone who is not that way but it is very similar to an addiction, except that most of them never want to quit.

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