AA vs. RR/AVRT
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
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Today is Day 6 for the umpteenth time.
I've been attending AA for a couple of months
I've been attending AA for a couple of months
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
Um, did a newcomer to AA ask the questions?
I like your style, soberlicious,
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This is why appreciate the sharp, clearly defined, and merciless focus of AVRT. Like a heat-seeking missile, it will necessarily identify and expose the Addictive Voice — "any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or drugs, ever" — wherever it exists, regardless of the source. It doesn't matter if it comes from the television, people 'in recovery', one's sponsor, Internet forums, addictions counselors, the Surgeon General, or even Charlie Sheen. 
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth 
Just the first 164 pages, or the whole book, including the stories?
If the stories too, ALL the stories from all the editions, or just some?
How about the 12 & 12? Is that AA, or not?
If the stories too, ALL the stories from all the editions, or just some?
How about the 12 & 12? Is that AA, or not?
Yeah, the first 164 pages are known as the basic text ie the nuts n' bolts of AA recovery shared in detail and an absolute required read to grasp and embrace the AA experience, imo. The complete and total book is the heart and head of AA. All the rest included in the book -- stories, Spiritual Experiences, Doctors Nightmare, etc... compliments and enhances the BB, imo. The 12x12 is a separate book. All the other editions have the same message told in a bit of a different "voice", imo.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
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Originally Posted by stugotz
Some will always drift towards the "Easier, softer way" Thats human nature.
Originally Posted by Zencat
LOL...For me that was drinking/drugging and pretending I was in recovery.
Originally Posted by stugotz
"Too thine own self be true"
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Originally Posted by zencat
Truth is the way out of self-deception. As it is most certainly 'not the easier softer way'.
Choosing Life
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"It doesn't matter if it comes from the television, people 'in recovery', one's sponsor, Internet forums, addictions counselors, the Surgeon General, or even Charlie Sheen."
Now THAT's funny.
Now THAT's funny.
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Let's all have a kumbaya moment : Jack Nicholson - You can't handle the truth - YouTube
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth
Just the first 164 pages, or the whole book, including the stories?
If the stories too, ALL the stories from all the editions, or just some?
How about the 12 & 12? Is that AA, or not?
If the stories too, ALL the stories from all the editions, or just some?
How about the 12 & 12? Is that AA, or not?
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Yeah, the first 164 pages are known as the basic text ie the nuts n' bolts of AA recovery shared in detail and an absolute required read to grasp and embrace the AA experience, imo. The complete and total book is the heart and head of AA. All the rest included in the book -- stories, Spiritual Experiences, Doctors Nightmare, etc... compliments and enhances the BB, imo. The 12x12 is a separate book. All the other editions have the same message told in a bit of a different "voice", imo.
But it doesn't really answer the question I had, which really comes down to whether AA literature other than the Big Book "is" AA. I think that's a valid question, given the oft-repeated statement that "if it isn't in the Big Book, it isn't AA". I read this statement a lot, and I genuinely want to know what it means to people. AA has a lot of Conference Approved literature, far more than just the one book, after all.
Maybe it would be easier to keep the question to one book: the 12 & 12, which, like the BB, was written by Bill W., and forms the basis for many AA meetings ("step" meetings or "12 & 12" formats).
Is the 12 & 12 AA?
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It's odd to me, this desire to say what is or isn't AA. Not just here in the thread, but the pronouncements desertsong and others are given in meetings. Listen to this, don't pay attention to that. Ignore that, but follow this to the letter. Aren't those the kinds of decisions that should be made by the individual? Shouldn't desertsong be the ultimate arbiter of what's right for desertsong?
PS: I'm not in AA, so I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about. Just like to consider myself intellectually curious and think that when it comes to info and ideas, the more, the better....
PS: I'm not in AA, so I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about. Just like to consider myself intellectually curious and think that when it comes to info and ideas, the more, the better....
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
All the other editions have the same message told in a bit of a different "voice", imo.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Originally Posted by Sapling
They haven't changed the basic text since the first edition...Each new edition has only added and dropped stories in the back. And added a new forward with each new edition.
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Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
It's odd to me, this desire to say what is or isn't AA. Not just here in the thread, but the pronouncements desertsong and others are given in meetings. Listen to this, don't pay attention to that. Ignore that, but follow this to the letter. Aren't those the kinds of decisions that should be made by the individual? Shouldn't desertsong be the ultimate arbiter of what's right for desertsong?
PS: I'm not in AA, so I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about. Just like to consider myself intellectually curious and think that when it comes to info and ideas, the more, the better....
PS: I'm not in AA, so I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about. Just like to consider myself intellectually curious and think that when it comes to info and ideas, the more, the better....
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
That path is the 12 steps of AA....The directions are laid out in the first 103 pages of the Big Book...If you are doing the steps right...Thoroughly following the path...Out of the book...That is AA...If you want to do them your way..or not at all...I'd say your chances aren't that good.
quote from BB first edition
Choosing Life
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,435
Originally Posted by Sapling
It's a manual of what the first 100 or so drunks did to to stop drinking for good...They were kind enough to put it into a book which has saved millions of people's lives from alcohol..Mine included...The most important line in the book for me is the first line of chapter 5...How It Works...
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
That path is the 12 steps of AA....The directions are laid out in the first 103 pages of the Big Book...If you are doing the steps right...Thoroughly following the path...Out of the book...That is AA...If you want to do them your way..or not at all...I'd say your chances aren't that good.
quote from BB first edition
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
That path is the 12 steps of AA....The directions are laid out in the first 103 pages of the Big Book...If you are doing the steps right...Thoroughly following the path...Out of the book...That is AA...If you want to do them your way..or not at all...I'd say your chances aren't that good.
quote from BB first edition
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Originally Posted by desertsong
The people who say this the most forcefully in my group, Sapling, are the old-timers ... the folks with 20+ years of sobriety. They must know what they're talking about.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by onlythetruth
Thanks....that's helpful.
But it doesn't really answer the question I had, which really comes down to whether AA literature other than the Big Book "is" AA. I think that's a valid question, given the oft-repeated statement that "if it isn't in the Big Book, it isn't AA". I read this statement a lot, and I genuinely want to know what it means to people. AA has a lot of Conference Approved literature, far more than just the one book, after all.
Maybe it would be easier to keep the question to one book: the 12 & 12, which, like the BB, was written by Bill W., and forms the basis for many AA meetings ("step" meetings or "12 & 12" formats).
Is the 12 & 12 AA?
But it doesn't really answer the question I had, which really comes down to whether AA literature other than the Big Book "is" AA. I think that's a valid question, given the oft-repeated statement that "if it isn't in the Big Book, it isn't AA". I read this statement a lot, and I genuinely want to know what it means to people. AA has a lot of Conference Approved literature, far more than just the one book, after all.
Maybe it would be easier to keep the question to one book: the 12 & 12, which, like the BB, was written by Bill W., and forms the basis for many AA meetings ("step" meetings or "12 & 12" formats).
Is the 12 & 12 AA?
It's like any other major work which is offered to the masses of humanity and yet can be personally interpreted for individual experience: Respective religious and philosophical institutions of course are highly interpreted and yet still organised with a surety of design dictated by general consensus worldwide, and maintained and embraced by billions of people....
AA is within that vast melting pot of human experience....
So, AA General World Services gives its blessing approval for whatever it decides and we then have AA legally and logically defined. As well, liberal personal definition is totally allowed within AA as long as the essential Twelve Steps are being shared amongst those that call themselves AA members.
For me, AA program is found and explained / discovered within the Big Book; and the 12x12 organizes the format for the meetings and fellowship and etc.
And now, that's all I'll be saying about this.
I don't speak for AA.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
Aren't those the kinds of decisions that should be made by the individual? Shouldn't desertsong be the ultimate arbiter of what's right for desertsong?
Member
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Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
I just wasnted to touch on one thing that I've noticed here on this thread, and on some others.....I've read the following, and others, regarding AA's literature, and for some, there seems to be some misunderstanding.
"...AA has a lot of Conference Approved literature, far more than just the one book, after all..."
"...So, AA General World Services gives its blessing approval for whatever it decides and we then have AA legally and logically defined..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not sure if that second statement was referring to AA literature, but......AA does NOT approve or disapprove literature, as to what may or may not be read....I've even heard in meetings things like, "You can't read from that book in an AA meeting; it's not Conference Approved."
'Conference Approved' literature, and GSO's WSO's blessing approval does not mean that at all. What it does mean is that they have approved the literature for their publishing house/printing office to print/publish these books........thas allll.
(o:
NoelleR
P.S. See this link to AA's document on exactly what Conference Approved literature means and/or doesn't mean......:
http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-29_en.pdf
"...AA has a lot of Conference Approved literature, far more than just the one book, after all..."
"...So, AA General World Services gives its blessing approval for whatever it decides and we then have AA legally and logically defined..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not sure if that second statement was referring to AA literature, but......AA does NOT approve or disapprove literature, as to what may or may not be read....I've even heard in meetings things like, "You can't read from that book in an AA meeting; it's not Conference Approved."
'Conference Approved' literature, and GSO's WSO's blessing approval does not mean that at all. What it does mean is that they have approved the literature for their publishing house/printing office to print/publish these books........thas allll.
(o:
NoelleR
P.S. See this link to AA's document on exactly what Conference Approved literature means and/or doesn't mean......:
http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-29_en.pdf
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by NoelleR
I just wasnted to touch on one thing that I've noticed here on this thread, and on some others.....I've read the following, and others, regarding AA's literature, and for some, there seems to be some misunderstanding.
"...AA has a lot of Conference Approved literature, far more than just the one book, after all..."
"...So, AA General World Services gives its blessing approval for whatever it decides and we then have AA legally and logically defined..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not sure if that second statement was referring to AA literature, but......AA does NOT approve or disapprove literature, as to what may or may not be read....I've even heard in meetings things like, "You can't read from that book in an AA meeting; it's not Conference Approved."
'Conference Approved' literature, and GSO's WSO's blessing approval does not mean that at all. What it does mean is that they have approved the literature for their publishing house/printing office to print/publish these books........thas allll.
(o:
NoelleR
"...AA has a lot of Conference Approved literature, far more than just the one book, after all..."
"...So, AA General World Services gives its blessing approval for whatever it decides and we then have AA legally and logically defined..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not sure if that second statement was referring to AA literature, but......AA does NOT approve or disapprove literature, as to what may or may not be read....I've even heard in meetings things like, "You can't read from that book in an AA meeting; it's not Conference Approved."
'Conference Approved' literature, and GSO's WSO's blessing approval does not mean that at all. What it does mean is that they have approved the literature for their publishing house/printing office to print/publish these books........thas allll.
(o:
NoelleR
I meant it as in legal copyright (and logical). Thanks for the clarifications.
Member
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Originally Posted by Sapling
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.
quote from BB first edition
quote from BB first edition
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