Terminally Unique

Once again, AVRT is not the same thing as REBT, and Rational Recovery no longer uses REBT. Neither do any rehabs or addictions counselors teach AVRT. As for the notion that removing the addiction may 'solve all of your problems', that is simply absurd. When I quit getting drunk, I didn't magically get my old job back, for example. Who comes up with this stuff?

DayTrader

I've leafed through this thread and came across some "interesting" opinions of what AA is, recommends, stands for, "believes" and so forth. I'm not going to point fingers or call out specific posts because it's not worth derailing the thread over but suffice it to say, there are some rather misconstrued ideas of what AA is and isn't.

What I WILL say is this.... if someone's interested in AA.....successful AA.......the AA that's survived for all these decades......I'd highly HIGHLY recommend you post any questions or concerns about AA in the 12-Step section of this forum. Down there, you'll find many dozens of folks who found REAL AA, not some convoluted / watered down "I heard this at an AA meeting so it must be AA" sort of stuff I come across all too often in these Newcomer's threads.

desertsong

I agree completely. While I've only been in AA a few months, one of the most valuable things I've learned is that if it's not in the Big Book, it's not AA. There are a lot of personalities in the rooms and a lot of them try to tell you that their opinions/perceptions are the "right" way. Thank God I have a sponsor who made it clear from the beginning that the Big Book is the AA "Bible" and to not pay attention to things people say that go contrary to what is in the book. Not that the folks in the rooms don't have anything valuable to contribute from their own experience, but the BB is what the AA program is all about.

Terminally Unique

This notion of 'stages of alcoholism' is meaningless within AVRT. Either the Beast has been 'born', and you want to quit but cannot, or you don't want to quit. This is not necessarily a good thing, but the more beaten down from drinking you are, the easier it will be to accept what AVRT proposes (lifetime abstinence). As long as you think you can 'get away with it' some more, you aren't going to like what AVRT has to say. I would also note that AVRT was designed with people who did not respond to addiction treatment in mind, and indeed, a large number of people who end up at RR's door have already gone through rehab multiple times -- the (presumably) 'hopeless' cases.

Terminally Unique

You'll find this everywhere, DayTrader, hence my remark about the 98% relapse club. I have to keep telling people that AVRT is not "think through the drink" (which comes from REBT), or "I choose not to drink today," for example. People seem to instinctively want to water things down, and the sloganeers certainly don't help things.

DayTrader

^^^ I love the "personal responsibility" aspect of what I believe I see is part of the AVRT deal. I may not have many choices once I start drinking but I damn sure have some choices now.......today........to keep myself on the path of sobriety vs that worn out $hit-path of booze.

I'm also surprised, very pleasantly, at how similar AA and AVRT seem to be from reading your posts and from some of the side conversations we've shared. Both programs seem to "require" some damn big changing of attitudes (both "opinions" and "angles of approach" definitions of attitude seem to apply here) and a pretty good heaping spoonful of action.

--ah, action......that was a 4-letter-word to me when I was thinking about getting sober -- ......read that correctly "thinking" about getting sober. Not surprisingly, thinking myself sober never worked for long. Acting myself sober.......that's worked for almost 5 years now.

Terminally Unique

DayTrader,

If AA hadn't mutated over the years, ignored its traditions, and given rise to the addiction treatment industry, I very much doubt that AVRT would be necessary, or that Rational Recovery would even exist. You guys are now paying the price, though, since rehab tips and tricks (such as REBT) and pop psychology appear to be quite common in the rooms these days.

stugotz

Some will always drift towards the "Easier, softer way" Thats human nature. I think there is even a DVD you can buy now that will "cure" you. Ill wait for the app. Just sayin.....

soberlicious

human nature or the nature of the beast? LOL another zen riddle.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, it is an inspirational thread, MemphisBlues. You made an awesome contribution too. I can't generalize as much as you, but I like where you're coming from and where you're going, and how you shared honestly and authentically.

I hope you don't stay stalled in either RR or AA. Stalled is no safe place to rest as you probably already know, right? I've experienced being stalled. Its lousy and worse. And that's a good thing, it gets us going again.

I really like and agree with your bringing of the Ghandi quote. The complete quote is:

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -- Mahatma Ghandi

Awesome words from Ghandi. Brings it all home for me as a Christian. Seriously.

Zencat

LOL...For me that was drinking/drugging and pretending I was in recovery.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, so true. heh heh.
Awesome, Zencat.

stugotz

"Too thine own self be true"

DayTrader

onlythetruth

Just the first 164 pages, or the whole book, including the stories?

If the stories too, ALL the stories from all the editions, or just some?

How about the 12 & 12? Is that AA, or not?

DayTrader

Stir the pot much ^^^^^^^^^?

......try letting it go sometime. (or start another thread.....or send a pm)

soberlicious

Valid questions.

DayTrader

ah...... sorry, don't see it that way. There's the AA program and everything else......it's simple and obvious. Leading questions meant to question that.....and, more importantly......to derail an already excellent thread.....need not be answered. If it's a valid question......start a thread about it in the 12-steps section or ask that person personally. My guess, it's not an answer that's being sought so much as an opportunity to take a jab at AA........ and that comes from a lot of experience watching doooozens of posts just like that.

soberlicious

Well, I can't speak for OTT, but as a newcomer to AA, I would want to know the answers to those questions. My sponsor gave me "A Woman's Way Through the Twelve Steps". She also did a sort of gestalt twist on working some of the steps. It was difficult to sort out exactly what was "real AA" or not. I'm not being facetious here. I sincerely think they are valid questions.

ReadyAndAble

Um, did a newcomer to AA ask the questions?

I like your style, soberlicious, but that's a stretch...