Dee74

It was a general request
back to the thread...

D

Stevie1

Somebody needs to write an essay on the myth of the "high-functioning alcoholic."

I thought I was one, for a very long time. My father was one. And other people I have known, who have not ended up drinking 24/7, did not lose homes, jobs, end up in jail, etc.

I've said it here before...the biggest harm is the slow erosion of your soul and your capabilities. The not acheiving, the multiple "small" public embarrasments, the shame, guilt, hiding, the comparing yourself to non-alcoholics and falling short, all of that catches up after a while. Not everyone has a spectacular slide into tabloid-worthy fail. Cumulatively the little stuff can end up hugely destructive.

Anyway DB - I don't have much time in AA but I'd definitely give little credence to someone like that - sounds like he hasn't learned much in all those years!

Pete55

Right on the button.

When I had that Step 1 expirience, I did not know it "happened".
It was a home group member who asked me "what happened to you!?
I told what some of us did that weekend, ( crash course on the steps weekend, as it was done in the 40's in Cleveland method etc etc)
They ( guest hosts) spent one whole day on those pages keithj mentions about Step 1, and man oh man, it just blew away the cobwebs, the doubts and then it was shear clarity of where EXACTLY to look in the BB, AND, and the Hope!

I think what the old timer was getting at, was probably the "dilution" factor over time. But yes, intimidating at first, but once ya have the Step 1 expirience, an old timer will see it and probably won't ask the same type of questions. He/She will "know".

Anna

DB,

I have been and continue to be careful about who I listen to for advice in recovery. I am so thankful that when I came to SR years ago, I met a few really amazing women who helped me a lot. Since then, I been fortunate enough to have a few trusted friends here who I know I can talk to anytime. Bottom line, is be careful who you listen to and you'll be fine.

Boleo

Me to. However, that did not get me into any kind of program, just hundreds of controlled drinking experiments. Eventually I did enough "research" to qualify as the real deal. Not the smartest move I ever made LOL!

DrunkenBasement

Thanks, Anna.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what some of the others are saying here. I thought I made it clear that I don't question who or what I am as far as my relationship with alcohol is concerned. I am an alcoholic. I know that. No one can or will tell me otherwise. I really didn't have a question at all. I was concerned about the person who might be in a more fragile and impressionable state, unable to brush something like that off. It was something I experienced and I wanted to share it and see what others thought. Simple as that.

LexieCat

Nah, I get what you're saying, DB. I also get what the other people are saying. It was somewhat ignorant of him, IMO, to toss that off at a meeting without any further explanation on his part. If you were in a deep conversation, and he followed up with explaining why he was asking, that would have been different. As it was, it was a throwaway that could have really confused someone with less knowledge than you.

Not everyone in AA carries the message effectively.

DrunkenBasement

What I absolutely cannot express on SR is the look on his face or the tone of his voice. All I can say is that it was not one of concern!!!

keithj

I thought everyone was on the same page. This guy was doing a dis-service to the newcomer, and, despite his 31 years of sobriety, doesn't sound like he has a clue about what defines an alcoholic in AA.

That's no surprise either though. Plenty of what I hear in meetings has no basis on the experience gained from the BB.

Stevie1

I thought I got it.

Old dude was wrong.

Someone who was scared off by a dismissal of their problem and therefore continues drinking: definitely not well-educated on the issue, or not ready to quit, in either case will be back or won't - but if one old dude with a dismissive attitude isx enough to hurl someone back into active drinking, then that attempt at sobriety wasn't going to stick anyway.

IOW, someone fragile and impressionable enough to run back to the bottle because of what one person said to them at an AA meeting is fragile and impressionable, period, and is not ready to stop drinking. So, I wouldn't worry about it on other peoples' account.

Also: Needs more cowbell.

EmeraldRose

Wale...I think....that just maybe if he got such a rise out of you the ol' guy was put there for a reason -you will gain knowledge from this thought.
An ol' timer runs our AA and although he's a sweetie and would give you the shirt off his back sometimes I wish he'd shut up and let someone else tell a story! LMAO
BUT on the other hand, something he says may affect someone at some point and get them thinking, too!
What did your sponser say about this situation?

FrothyJay

If the guy was trying to provoke you into really considering your 1st step, there are better ways to do it. But AA is a cross-section of society, so you're going to get different approaches and experiences. As some have said here, make sure you get enough data points before you draw a conclusion about AA.

I once spoke at a meeting with about three months sober and was berated by several "old timers" who told me I probably needed two sponsors, and shouldn't be sharing, etc. I called my sponsor afterwards and we talked it through and agreed that I wouldn't be going back to that meeting. But, importantly, it did not shake my faith in AA or my understanding that I was an alcoholic.

But-- to Keith's point-- we should qualify the alcoholic-- not for ourselves, but for them. The essence of AA is admitting powerlessness, and if there are reservations about that, they should be talked through. If there are still reservations after a thorough discussion of the elements of alcoholism-- the physical allergy, the mental obsession, the spiritual malady that underlies it all-- then there is no need to proceed with the program (the steps of AA).

AAers are generally afraid to scare off the newcomer-- we believe that anything more than getting them a cup of coffee and a seat is liable to chase them off. Yet I believe we've taken that fear too far, and are losing people who come to AA and feel there's no real message of urgency and recovery. The trick is in finding the right way to do it, and in the section "Working With Others" the Big Book shows us exactly how to do it.

coffeenut

I so get this.

When I was a newbie to SR I had something very similar happen to me, here. Something about being a 'real' alcoholic. I was so mad. But then I was scared, maybe I really wasn't an alcoholic, maybe I should test the fact. Glad I didn't.

Guess it goes back to we have to be so very careful of what we say (that one is hard for me).

I'm glad you're here, DB!

Rickie

Dislikable people are prevalent everywhere. Take it as one of life's idiots. Personally I wouldn't get touchy about what a stranger said, he no doubt comes from a different walk for life. To some people, talk of where you went to school and what degree you have would probably irritate people. In fact I know it would. I imagine it was a bitter, sarcastic response.

Anyhow, I must say I feel no sympathy for someone who'd get "frightened off" by such a remark. The worlds a mean, brutal place and if someone's that cowardly, sheltered and fragile to run at the first sign of discomfort, it reflects how well they're going to do at an attempt sobriety.

G'night all

artsoul

JMO - I can see why it bothered you DB and why you think newcomers might be shaken by it. I've seen a few old-timers who are used to things being a certain way and it's almost like they think they represent AA. And some people may say things without realizing the impact they have on others. It seems that every meeting has it's "cast of characters."

If someone ever says that to you in the future, just tell them that maybe it's not the best thing to say to a newbie who might be struggling just to be there.

I never did quite get the "real alcoholic" thing anyway. I was probably a wimp, though -

Danae

Thanks Stevie, I really like your point here. The damage that alcoholism does is not always visible to others. But it is real. ---"the slow erosion of your soul and your capabilities". Yup!

Pilgrim

If you go again, ask him to re-read the first paragraph of Chapter 4 of the Big Book. There are two questions which we ask ourselves if we want to know we are alcoholic or not. Maybe he hasn't read it!? lol

gerryP

I get what you are saying DB.

"IF" you had been a newcomer questioning whether you were alcoholic, it could have sent you running for the door. I hear you.

I stopped going to meetings after 2 1/2 years because I got sick of hearing stupid comments. Still sober, but the meetings stopped working for me.

Bamboozle

That's exactly why I get upset when people question another person's alcoholism.

This is no contest or a joke--this is serious. No one gets a nice prize for being the worst off.

Bamboozle

I'm that person. There are many like me. I'm sensitive and feel out of place...I don't like most people because I find that the majority are insensitive and thoughtless.

I consider myself to be very fortunate that I'm coming up on two years sober. I stuck close to the sensitive types at SR...and because they actually gave a crap about me I found it within myself to finally get some help.