Five Years Here, So Sad to Still Be Here
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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I feel your pain, I really do. We are going through the same thing here it's been horrible. There is nothing you can do till he contacts someone for real help. Try and get your mind busy with other stuff, I know it's hard but stay strong.
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My dad's wife's son, let's call him J, was only 33. He had an extensive history of drug abuse. In fact, his story is almost identical to B's. At one point during the funeral, I turned to one of my aunt's and said that the hardest part of this was that could easily be B right there now in the coffin. The son's girlfriend has claimed that J was not alone when he was hit by the train. She was not with them, so who knows what she knows or does not know. We think she has said this to try to alleviate some of the guilt J's father might have about kicking his son out of the house and this happening right after. If someone was with him, which is doubtful, then it may not have been suicide. Being the lawyer I am, I asked about whether there is an investigation, but that idea was shrugged off. No one cares about another dead junkie in the ghetto. I'm generally speaking about our society and the police, not J's family. As far as they are concerned, they care of course but they care most of all that he is finally at peace and, sad to say, so is the family.
My dad updated me about B who was in another hospital the other day after leaving the shelter. The social worker was able to get insurance to approve a 28 day rehab. The program has follow up transitional support with a halfway house and vocational counseling which can last up to 3 months, from what I understand. My aunt (the one closest to my dad, whose son went through Caron FL) was pessimistic about it, saying that a month "is nothing" and "won't do any good" and "needs something long term, at least six months preferably a year", etc. She wants to "try to get him into a better place." We are lucky we have him agreeing to this place, as he does not want dad paying for him to go anywhere. Anyway, at least I have a month of peace.
My dad updated me about B who was in another hospital the other day after leaving the shelter. The social worker was able to get insurance to approve a 28 day rehab. The program has follow up transitional support with a halfway house and vocational counseling which can last up to 3 months, from what I understand. My aunt (the one closest to my dad, whose son went through Caron FL) was pessimistic about it, saying that a month "is nothing" and "won't do any good" and "needs something long term, at least six months preferably a year", etc. She wants to "try to get him into a better place." We are lucky we have him agreeing to this place, as he does not want dad paying for him to go anywhere. Anyway, at least I have a month of peace.
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Letter I will be sending
Dear B,
You probably don’t know this but I stay in touch with your mom and had been staying in touch with C. It’s a shame that things did not get better for you and have begun to reach new lows. The drugs that you have been addicted to are very serious business, as I have said before, so I really hope that you advocate for yourself to get treatment and assistance as much as possible. The only way out of this alive (prison=death in a sense, and if it comes that that, i.e. if you continue down this path of self destruction and wind up in prison, I won’t be able to handle it so I will have to completely detach) is to be open and honest with yourself and your team (probation officer, social workers, doctors, etc) about your feelings, etc. The truth always comes out in the end one way or another. I know jail has taught you to be a better criminal than when you got in, but it doesn’t matter because that way of life ALWAYS winds up in death or prison.
As you probably know, S’s son J killed himself last week. At the funeral, all I could think about is how much that could have been you in that coffin. I don’t know if you have any idea how much pain it gives me and the rest of the family, especially Dad, to see how little you care about yourself.
B, I never would have gotten my life together if I had continued using drugs when I was in my late 20s. It took me four years being “clean” before I really had my act together and was able to go to law school. I enrolled when I around age 33. Most people go to law school right out of college in their early 20s. My late 20s, after years of partying, I was such a mess. I struggled so much to have a roof over my head and food to eat. At a couple points, I had nowhere to go as Dad had “kicked me out” of his house (which was terrible for you because I was always there to help you out at that difficult time of you being bounced around between ----- and ------without any structure). It hurt at the time but in all honesty, it was the best thing to happen because it lit a fire under my ass to become independent, to be an adult.
You may feel very hurt or betrayed right now but sometimes “tough love” is the right love. A momma bird might be very anxious to see her baby bird throw itself out of the nest for its first time, but after it falls to the ground, it learns how to fly. The rescuing and “enabling” has engendered way too much dependency, B, and I know you know it because you are such a smart man. Please use that intelligence for positive change in your life!
One more thing, and it’s very important. You are on Dad’s insurance until December 31st. When it expires, you are eligible for Medicaid. Apparently, it is very easy to sign up for it at www.healthcare.gov/ . Because, I believe, Blue Cross/Blue Shield cannot be extended any further out, it is so extremely critical for you to make sure there is continuity of insurance coverage and, if necessary, continuity of care at the rehab you are at if you need longer than 28 days. I personally believe 28 days is not enough and that you need at least six months.
What I am saying is, it is of utmost importance in order for you to take care of yourself, that you advocate for your medical needs so the treatment team (I suppose the social workers are the point people) can make sure that insurance covers these needs. Obviously, payment by insurance is the #1 key to care. Otherwise, without insurance, the only medical care you will be eligible for is in emergency rooms for maximum of 72 hours, but most likely sooner and not overnight if clearly not a medical emergency, and then you get discharged.
Please take care of yourself.
Love,
You probably don’t know this but I stay in touch with your mom and had been staying in touch with C. It’s a shame that things did not get better for you and have begun to reach new lows. The drugs that you have been addicted to are very serious business, as I have said before, so I really hope that you advocate for yourself to get treatment and assistance as much as possible. The only way out of this alive (prison=death in a sense, and if it comes that that, i.e. if you continue down this path of self destruction and wind up in prison, I won’t be able to handle it so I will have to completely detach) is to be open and honest with yourself and your team (probation officer, social workers, doctors, etc) about your feelings, etc. The truth always comes out in the end one way or another. I know jail has taught you to be a better criminal than when you got in, but it doesn’t matter because that way of life ALWAYS winds up in death or prison.
As you probably know, S’s son J killed himself last week. At the funeral, all I could think about is how much that could have been you in that coffin. I don’t know if you have any idea how much pain it gives me and the rest of the family, especially Dad, to see how little you care about yourself.
B, I never would have gotten my life together if I had continued using drugs when I was in my late 20s. It took me four years being “clean” before I really had my act together and was able to go to law school. I enrolled when I around age 33. Most people go to law school right out of college in their early 20s. My late 20s, after years of partying, I was such a mess. I struggled so much to have a roof over my head and food to eat. At a couple points, I had nowhere to go as Dad had “kicked me out” of his house (which was terrible for you because I was always there to help you out at that difficult time of you being bounced around between ----- and ------without any structure). It hurt at the time but in all honesty, it was the best thing to happen because it lit a fire under my ass to become independent, to be an adult.
You may feel very hurt or betrayed right now but sometimes “tough love” is the right love. A momma bird might be very anxious to see her baby bird throw itself out of the nest for its first time, but after it falls to the ground, it learns how to fly. The rescuing and “enabling” has engendered way too much dependency, B, and I know you know it because you are such a smart man. Please use that intelligence for positive change in your life!
One more thing, and it’s very important. You are on Dad’s insurance until December 31st. When it expires, you are eligible for Medicaid. Apparently, it is very easy to sign up for it at www.healthcare.gov/ . Because, I believe, Blue Cross/Blue Shield cannot be extended any further out, it is so extremely critical for you to make sure there is continuity of insurance coverage and, if necessary, continuity of care at the rehab you are at if you need longer than 28 days. I personally believe 28 days is not enough and that you need at least six months.
What I am saying is, it is of utmost importance in order for you to take care of yourself, that you advocate for your medical needs so the treatment team (I suppose the social workers are the point people) can make sure that insurance covers these needs. Obviously, payment by insurance is the #1 key to care. Otherwise, without insurance, the only medical care you will be eligible for is in emergency rooms for maximum of 72 hours, but most likely sooner and not overnight if clearly not a medical emergency, and then you get discharged.
Please take care of yourself.
Love,
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Many hugs my dear friend. A month is a month, and you never know when or if it will sink in. It only takes a moment for that to happen, you never know when that will be.
Get some good rest and take good care of yourself. You are doing and have done all you can. Rest easy in knowing that.
Tight Hugs.
Get some good rest and take good care of yourself. You are doing and have done all you can. Rest easy in knowing that.
Tight Hugs.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 2,684
I am sorry for the loss of your family member.
Wishes for peace and comfort for your family and you during this difficult time and also that your brother might find his way to a healthier and stable life; hopeful4 says it best in above post.
Wishes for peace and comfort for your family and you during this difficult time and also that your brother might find his way to a healthier and stable life; hopeful4 says it best in above post.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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I listened to an episode of OnPoint (with Tom Ashbrook, on WBUR) today about extreme do-gooding. The self sacrifice of the examples the woman he interviewed reminded me very much of codependent loved ones. Us, here, basically. She spoke about the "theory of parentified children." A child who grows up in a house with at least one parent who is not functioning as a normal parent, whether due to alcoholism, etc., will grow up with a feeling of a need to fix his family, take care of siblings, and will feel like it is his/her responsibility. These children will likely retain this extreme moral duty throughout life and grow up to feel the same way about the rest of the world. Wow. This totally describes me.
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I got a phone call yesterday that caused me to have a great deal of anxiety. The first thing that scared me was the phone caller's, "Can I speak with B?" without any greeting or introduction. That reminded me of the phone calls I had gotten a couple of years ago when drug dealers he had "jackked" (sic.) were looking for him. So, my first reaction was to think, "Oh god, what has he done now?"
I asked who was calling and it was a police officer from the town where he was living with caretaker. He falsely claimed that when he had spoken with B a couple of weeks ago B had given him my number as a number where he could be reached in the future. That could not be true because I have never given my B my cell phone number and I am almost positive he did not have it because he has been very respectful of my need to detach from him and not be called upon by him. I also do not believe that my B had spoken to police, but I am not certain at all about that.
I told the police officer that I am not in communication with B and that he should try speaking with C (caretaker). Police officer asked me if I had another phone number for C as he has been unsuccessful in getting in touch with her. I do not so told him that I do not. I explained that that was all I could recommend and the conversation ended.
I do not know what is going on. I think that if C is not getting back to the police, it is because she does not want to press charges. If she does not cooperate, then they don't have a case. Maybe they want to squeeze a confession out of him. I don't know. Nor do I really care to know, to be honest. All I know is that he is in rehab and hopefully it will help.
I asked who was calling and it was a police officer from the town where he was living with caretaker. He falsely claimed that when he had spoken with B a couple of weeks ago B had given him my number as a number where he could be reached in the future. That could not be true because I have never given my B my cell phone number and I am almost positive he did not have it because he has been very respectful of my need to detach from him and not be called upon by him. I also do not believe that my B had spoken to police, but I am not certain at all about that.
I told the police officer that I am not in communication with B and that he should try speaking with C (caretaker). Police officer asked me if I had another phone number for C as he has been unsuccessful in getting in touch with her. I do not so told him that I do not. I explained that that was all I could recommend and the conversation ended.
I do not know what is going on. I think that if C is not getting back to the police, it is because she does not want to press charges. If she does not cooperate, then they don't have a case. Maybe they want to squeeze a confession out of him. I don't know. Nor do I really care to know, to be honest. All I know is that he is in rehab and hopefully it will help.
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It's been 28 days and my B is moving into the halfway house that is connected to the rehab. I haven't spoken to anyone in the family about him in a while except to hear from our dad the other day. Dad, sis, and B's mother went to a family Christmas gathering event at the rehab. Dad said it "went well." I wrote him another letter and will be sending it out shortly:
I hope you got through the holidays okay without too much loneliness. I don’t know if you know, but Aunt cancelled Christmas this year (first time in over 20 years!) because of all the stress and craziness in the family of late. I was thankful to get a break and just spent the day with [husband] and J (our dog). I made green bean casserole to go with our dinner. I have never made it before but because it reminds me of you, I felt that it was very important to make it. Do you remember how much you love green beans?
Anyway….of course I have been thinking of you constantly and hoping your recovery is going well so far. I have to say, because Dad certainly seems clueless, that you have a very long road ahead of you. Everything that I have learned about meth/amphetamine (yes, you had that in your system, so whether you are aware of it or not, you had been using it) is just so scary.
The withdrawals and cravings for it must be intense and you’ll probably be wanting to substitute with anything that is going to release dopamine (sugar, caffeine, etc) to even get a tiny effect on the “pleasure” receptors of the brain that are largely affected by meth/coke/all drugs basically. It takes an average of 18-24 months before the brain returns to normal. 1 out of 4 of meth users attempt suicide. Meth users commit murder and aggression is one of the common side effects (I saw it when I was there with you in NJ this summer. You weren’t just “mean” to me but scared the **** out of me.)…. Etc etc etc…. Needless to say, that K2/spice **** is just as bad. One guy on it strangled his dog and ate it.
Listen, Dad is clueless and I really hope that he stops “enabling” you. I know that you have been caring enough to respect my wishes about keeping detached because (I hope) you understand that it is for my own peace of mind and mental health. I don’t think Dad has the wherewithal to set boundaries with you that will help you become as independent as you really need to be. Do you get what I am saying? Dad obviously does not handle things in a healthy manner, with his alcoholism and all, and I am really afraid that any more trauma is going to give him a massive heart attack. In a nutshell, I am asking you to step up here and do whatever you are able to do to stay away from the old patterns, for yourself of course and for him.
Lastly, I know that meth/heroin/etc withdrawal can be very painful and long lasting. I hope you can take advantage of everything that the program you are at can offer you. I think it is especially important to use the help of the social workers. I hope you are thinking long term (housing, health insurance, etc.) as that is essential to survival.
Anyway, you know I love you, as does Dad and the rest of the family. We are rooting for you and will never stop.
Love,
I hope you got through the holidays okay without too much loneliness. I don’t know if you know, but Aunt cancelled Christmas this year (first time in over 20 years!) because of all the stress and craziness in the family of late. I was thankful to get a break and just spent the day with [husband] and J (our dog). I made green bean casserole to go with our dinner. I have never made it before but because it reminds me of you, I felt that it was very important to make it. Do you remember how much you love green beans?
Anyway….of course I have been thinking of you constantly and hoping your recovery is going well so far. I have to say, because Dad certainly seems clueless, that you have a very long road ahead of you. Everything that I have learned about meth/amphetamine (yes, you had that in your system, so whether you are aware of it or not, you had been using it) is just so scary.
The withdrawals and cravings for it must be intense and you’ll probably be wanting to substitute with anything that is going to release dopamine (sugar, caffeine, etc) to even get a tiny effect on the “pleasure” receptors of the brain that are largely affected by meth/coke/all drugs basically. It takes an average of 18-24 months before the brain returns to normal. 1 out of 4 of meth users attempt suicide. Meth users commit murder and aggression is one of the common side effects (I saw it when I was there with you in NJ this summer. You weren’t just “mean” to me but scared the **** out of me.)…. Etc etc etc…. Needless to say, that K2/spice **** is just as bad. One guy on it strangled his dog and ate it.
Listen, Dad is clueless and I really hope that he stops “enabling” you. I know that you have been caring enough to respect my wishes about keeping detached because (I hope) you understand that it is for my own peace of mind and mental health. I don’t think Dad has the wherewithal to set boundaries with you that will help you become as independent as you really need to be. Do you get what I am saying? Dad obviously does not handle things in a healthy manner, with his alcoholism and all, and I am really afraid that any more trauma is going to give him a massive heart attack. In a nutshell, I am asking you to step up here and do whatever you are able to do to stay away from the old patterns, for yourself of course and for him.
Lastly, I know that meth/heroin/etc withdrawal can be very painful and long lasting. I hope you can take advantage of everything that the program you are at can offer you. I think it is especially important to use the help of the social workers. I hope you are thinking long term (housing, health insurance, etc.) as that is essential to survival.
Anyway, you know I love you, as does Dad and the rest of the family. We are rooting for you and will never stop.
Love,
●▬๑۩۩๑▬●
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,405
If your intention is to be the fuel for a huge relapse, anger, severe depression, shame, resentment, and complete loss of hope...you will accomplish it well with that letter.
Suggested edit:
I hope you got through the holidays okay. I just spent the day with [husband] and J (our dog). I made green bean casserole to go with our dinner. Do you remember how much you love green beans?
Anyway….of course I have been thinking of you and hoping your recovery is going well so far.
I hope you can take advantage of everything that the program you are at can offer you.
Anyway, you know I love you, as does Dad and the rest of the family. We are rooting for you and will never stop.
Love,
Suggested edit:
I hope you got through the holidays okay. I just spent the day with [husband] and J (our dog). I made green bean casserole to go with our dinner. Do you remember how much you love green beans?
Anyway….of course I have been thinking of you and hoping your recovery is going well so far.
I hope you can take advantage of everything that the program you are at can offer you.
Anyway, you know I love you, as does Dad and the rest of the family. We are rooting for you and will never stop.
Love,
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by cynical one 
If your intention is to be the fuel for a huge relapse, anger, severe depression, shame, resentment, and complete loss of hope...you will accomplish it well with that letter.
Suggested edit:
I hope you got through the holidays okay. I just spent the day with [husband] and J (our dog). I made green bean casserole to go with our dinner. Do you remember how much you love green beans?
Anyway….of course I have been thinking of you and hoping your recovery is going well so far.
I hope you can take advantage of everything that the program you are at can offer you.
Anyway, you know I love you, as does Dad and the rest of the family. We are rooting for you and will never stop.
Love,
Suggested edit:
I hope you got through the holidays okay. I just spent the day with [husband] and J (our dog). I made green bean casserole to go with our dinner. Do you remember how much you love green beans?
Anyway….of course I have been thinking of you and hoping your recovery is going well so far.
I hope you can take advantage of everything that the program you are at can offer you.
Anyway, you know I love you, as does Dad and the rest of the family. We are rooting for you and will never stop.
Love,
That makes me feel quite uncomfortable - I think I have sent similar letters to my XAH in the past.
I would like to forgive myself for this as I know I was never intentionally trying to make things worse - Being close to an addict was very much like fumbling round in the dark to me, not having a CLUE what would make it worse or better.
I thought we couldn't 'cause it, cure it or control it' - so how could a letter cause all those things you said?
I can see how a letter that could come across as 'preachy' or someone knowing best and also paints a very gloomy picture, from the perspective of the person writing it, could be less than productive, however it feels kind of scary to hear that it would 'fuel a huge relapse" etc!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,405
Originally Posted by CarmenLove
Can I ask why you think it would cause such an extreme reaction? I'm genuinely curious.
In this case the son/brother is in very very early recovery. He has a long history of substance abuse and is now finally in treatment again. At this point in his recovery he is fragile physically, mentally, and emotionally. If he were to receive a manipulative letter such as this, it would most likely trigger a case of the *f*-its. From his mindset he is sacrificing everything to do the right thing, and now along with a long lecture on the evils of drugs, he’s being blamed for causing every dysfunction and health scare in the family. There is a time and a place (under the guidance of professionals) to do a debriefing. Now is far from the time. This letter made me want to go out and use, and I’m not an addict.
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Originally Posted by cynical one
I’ve always kept my thoughts to myself on causing (it wouldn’t be too popular), but there’s a rarely talked about fourth C = contribute. And, yes we can and do.
In this case the son/brother is in very very early recovery. He has a long history of substance abuse and is now finally in treatment again. At this point in his recovery he is fragile physically, mentally, and emotionally. If he were to receive a manipulative letter such as this, it would most likely trigger a case of the *f*-its. From his mindset he is sacrificing everything to do the right thing, and now along with a long lecture on the evils of drugs, he’s being blamed for causing every dysfunction and health scare in the family. There is a time and a place (under the guidance of professionals) to do a debriefing. Now is far from the time. This letter made me want to go out and use, and I’m not an addict.
In this case the son/brother is in very very early recovery. He has a long history of substance abuse and is now finally in treatment again. At this point in his recovery he is fragile physically, mentally, and emotionally. If he were to receive a manipulative letter such as this, it would most likely trigger a case of the *f*-its. From his mindset he is sacrificing everything to do the right thing, and now along with a long lecture on the evils of drugs, he’s being blamed for causing every dysfunction and health scare in the family. There is a time and a place (under the guidance of professionals) to do a debriefing. Now is far from the time. This letter made me want to go out and use, and I’m not an addict.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 214
This is a excellent point. The 4th C contribute is equal to what other recovery programs like Smart call "our ability to influence". And we can influence recovery or contribute to recovery in both positive and negative ways. This is the first Ive heard of the 4th C in AA.
As for the letter, I went through treatment myself years ago and will say I feel the letter is fine. He will be hearing the same concepts about urges and dopamine while he learns about his addiction. If the letter does trigger him it can be positive because he can talk about it, and use it for positive learning on how to manage his thoughts and feelings. When he leaves the safe environment he will need to have defenses built up to protect himself.
Because of this, its my opinion the letter is appropriate and taking the time to write and let him know you are thinking of him, remembering past shared memories will be encouraging.
As for the letter, I went through treatment myself years ago and will say I feel the letter is fine. He will be hearing the same concepts about urges and dopamine while he learns about his addiction. If the letter does trigger him it can be positive because he can talk about it, and use it for positive learning on how to manage his thoughts and feelings. When he leaves the safe environment he will need to have defenses built up to protect himself.
Because of this, its my opinion the letter is appropriate and taking the time to write and let him know you are thinking of him, remembering past shared memories will be encouraging.
Originally Posted by cynical one
I’ve always kept my thoughts to myself on causing (it wouldn’t be too popular), but there’s a rarely talked about fourth C = contribute. And, yes we can and do.
In this case the son/brother is in very very early recovery. He has a long history of substance abuse and is now finally in treatment again. At this point in his recovery he is fragile physically, mentally, and emotionally. If he were to receive a manipulative letter such as this, it would most likely trigger a case of the *f*-its. From his mindset he is sacrificing everything to do the right thing, and now along with a long lecture on the evils of drugs, he’s being blamed for causing every dysfunction and health scare in the family. There is a time and a place (under the guidance of professionals) to do a debriefing. Now is far from the time. This letter made me want to go out and use, and I’m not an addict.
In this case the son/brother is in very very early recovery. He has a long history of substance abuse and is now finally in treatment again. At this point in his recovery he is fragile physically, mentally, and emotionally. If he were to receive a manipulative letter such as this, it would most likely trigger a case of the *f*-its. From his mindset he is sacrificing everything to do the right thing, and now along with a long lecture on the evils of drugs, he’s being blamed for causing every dysfunction and health scare in the family. There is a time and a place (under the guidance of professionals) to do a debriefing. Now is far from the time. This letter made me want to go out and use, and I’m not an addict.
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Agree with cynical one on this topic.
Rushing to send a letter in early recovery without checking with the less emotionally involved professionals if it is helpful for my loved one, says that it is all about me and my need to control the situation, whether I have the honesty to admit it or not. Which is fine, but then , why do i bother to share with others if I already know what I am going to do?
Rushing to send a letter in early recovery without checking with the less emotionally involved professionals if it is helpful for my loved one, says that it is all about me and my need to control the situation, whether I have the honesty to admit it or not. Which is fine, but then , why do i bother to share with others if I already know what I am going to do?
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Originally Posted by piove
Agree with cynical one on this topic.
Rushing to send a letter in early recovery without checking with the less emotionally involved professionals if it is helpful for my loved one, says that it is all about me and my need to control the situation, whether I have the honesty to admit it or not. Which is fine, but then , why do i bother to share with others if I already know what I am going to do?
Rushing to send a letter in early recovery without checking with the less emotionally involved professionals if it is helpful for my loved one, says that it is all about me and my need to control the situation, whether I have the honesty to admit it or not. Which is fine, but then , why do i bother to share with others if I already know what I am going to do?
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
Good grief, that MAN has been trying to get "recovered" for years and years now. Alt has been thru recovery herself and knows this person better than any of us. He's been babied and enabled his whole adult life and we see how that's worked out for him. I agree with Alt, but we're all entitled to our own opinions.
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