allforcnm

My husband went through the Rapid Detox Procedure your talking about. He was under general anesthesia during the process which lasted several hours, and then he was sedated for a longer period. I don’t regret giving him that option, although yes it was expensive. We paid even more than what you quoted, and insurance did not pay for it because in his case it was not medically necessary.

I should say that this was my husbands first time to go through detox, and he is now in a rehab center in his second month. He is doing very well. I personally don’t think that he needed to experience the pain of withdrawals to make a mental connection to stop using. There are plenty of other reminders in his case.

I also read where you said you daughter tried to stop on her own, and said she couldn’t do it because it was too painful. So to some extent she already does know the withdrawal experience.

I think its more a personal choice, than one that will significantly alter a persons desire to use drugs. In fact, after reading here it seems lots of people went the straight at-home, or medical assistance route to detox and that still didn’t stop them from using again.

That’s about all I can add, except I do not share the opinion that addiction is a lifelong disease, and now she has been sucked in and there is no going back for her. My husband also got hooked on opiates; pain meds in his case after injury/surgery. He acquired an addiction to the drugs, but under our treatment protocol he is not considered an addict. That too is a personal choice. Having said that however, yes your family must learn to respect the power of these drugs and be diligent in long term care.

LoveMeNow

This poem left me speechless! My husband says it is "dead on." He read it over and over and over again....and finally started to get help in NA....a program he used to laugh at. (He is a high functioning perocet (opiate) DRUG ADDICT and I had no idea and/or was in deep, deep denial. As with any addiction, it progressed and his life, our life came crashing down). My husband attends 2 meetings a day and has friends from all walks of life there...from extremely wealthy to homeless. He says "everyone has something to offer his recovery." Also, I am attending Alanon so I can get MY life back too...as a wife and a mother...it became too easy for me to put everyone's needs first and lose our who I was!! Addiction made is beyond IMPOSSIBLE without help.

I AM YOUR DISEASE

You know who I am, you’ve called me your friend
Wishes of misery and heartache I send
I want only to see that you’re brought to your knees
I’m the devil inside you, I am your disease.

I’ll invade all your thoughts, I’ll take hostage your soul
I’ll become your new master, in total control
I’ll maim your emotions, I’ll run the whole game
Till your entire existence is crippled with shame

When you call me I come, sometimes in disguise
Quite often I’ll take you by total surprise
But take you I will, and just as you’ve feared
I’ll want only to hurt you, with no mercy spared

If you have your own family, Ill see its destroyed
I’ll steal every pleasure in life you’ve enjoyed
I’ll not only hurt you, I’ll kill if I please
I’m your worst living nightmare, I am your disease

I bring self destruction, but still you can’t tell
I’ll sweep you through heaven, then drop you in hell
I’ll chase you forever, wherever you go
And then when I catch you, you won’t even know

I’ll sometimes lay silent, just waiting to strike
What’s yours becomes mine, cuz I take what I like
I’ll take all you own and I won’t care who sees
I’m your constant companion… I am your disease

If you have any honor, I’ll strip it away
You’ll lose all your hope and forget how to pray
I’ll leave you in darkness, while blindly you stare
I’ll reduce you to nothing, and won’t even care

So, don’t take for granted my powers sublime
I’ll bend and I’ll break you, time after time
I’ll crumble your world with the greatest of ease
I’m that madman inside you…I am your disease

But today I’m real angry…you want to know why?
I let all in recovery, entirely slip by
How did I lose you? Where did I go wrong?

One minute I had you…then next you were gone

You just can’t dismiss all the good times we’ve shared
When you were alone…wasn’t it I who appeared?
When you sold those possessions you knew you would need
Wasn’t I the first one who stepped in and agreed

Now look at you bastards, you’re all thinking clear
You escaped with your lives when you found your way here
Only fools think they’re winners when admitting defeat
It’s what you must say when you’re claiming that seat

Go ahead and surrender, if that’s what you choose
But, I’m not giving up. cuz I can’t stand to lose
So stand in your groups and support hand in hand
Better choices will save you…leaving me to be damned

Well, be damned all you people seeking treatment each week
Be damned inner strength, however unique
Be damned all your sayings, be damned your cliches
Be damned every addict, who back to me strays

For I know it will happen, I’ve seen it before
Those who love misery will crawl back for more
So take comfort in knowing, I’m waiting right here
But next time around, you’d just better beware

You think that you’re stronger or smarter this time’
There isn’t a mountain or hill you can’t climb
Well if that’s what you’re thinkin, you ain’t learned a thing
I’ll still knock you silly if you step back in my ring

But you say you’ve surrendered, so what can I do?
It’s so sad in a way, I had big plans for you
Creating your nightmare for me was a dream
I’m sure gonna miss you…we made quite a team

So please don’t forget me, I won’t forget you
I’ll stand by your side watching all that you do
I’m ready and waiting, so call if you please
I won’t let you forget me…I am your disease

SadHeart

Nope. In fact, the less effort she has to put in, the less sacrifice she has to make for it, the more likely she is to take it for granted and be contemptuous of the program. She has to want RECOVERY, not just want rehab. And she has to want it badly enough to go out of state for it, go into debt for it, be sick for it, etc...

Any program (post detox) she doesn't want desperately is not likely to work.

Addicts have no trouble spending other people's money. Many, many families have been ground into poverty paying for rehab. The average times a substance abuser goes into rehab before making a meaningful recovery is SEVEN (as far as anyone can manage these things).

Salvation Army has an EXCELLENT program. I understand your daughter wants the spa treatment, and I would too (on someone else's dime). But the chances of your daughter going into any program and coming out and staying clean for the rest of her life is not good. It happens, but it is as likely as people who relapse 15 times.

Depending on how long your daughter has been using and how often and her own biology and psychology, you may have a long road ahead of you.

It would be prudent for you and your husband to sit down and figure out exactly how much money in total you are willing to spend on your daughter's treatment. It's very individual depending on your resources, income, age, health other children, etc... I know one family who said, they would spend only as much as was in that child's college fund--when that was gone, they would spend nothing more. Other families will use vacation money, take out equity loans, hit retirement accounts. But it's something that should be discussed now.

Spending money on your child for rehab is not wrong, but understand the true cost and what a gamble it is.

Addicts will take you down the drain with them. Even your darling daughter. Just be aware of this.

And good luck to you.

itsthepop

Thank you everyone for all the information. It has been very helpful. Keep it coming.

Back from initial meetings with several therapists. They all have similar but different views. Leads to more confusion.

Only one advised against the ROD method. He didn’t feel that our daughter needed it because of what she is taking and the dose she says she takes. He tried to encourage her to do it only under doctor supervision, and possibly even at home. The others all felt ROD method was effective and not detrimental.

Oh she did not like the doc who told her to detox at home at all. And she did not like it when I asked each doctor their opinion about if it was better to experience some of the symptoms in order to help prevent relapse. She b*tched me out in the car but good for even suggesting that to the doctor because she said we promised it to her. And then came the tears and asking me if I wanted to see her vomiting, shaking, and pacing the floors. She wants her dad back home and for me to let him take care of it and for me to leave her the he** alone. Then she changed her tune when she wanted to order take out and pick it up on the way home. She said she was upset and scared.

All but one therapist did suggest at least a 30 day rehab and then follow that up with them for weekly therapy sessions. He tried to tell her how she would meet people and become involved in NA and it would support her gong forward. He did make it sound beneficial. So Im not there yet with her socializing with other addicts, but my resistance weakened a little after talking with him in detail. My daughter did not like the idea and said she would not do that.

I am at a loss completely. She does not seem willing to do anything for treatment, but she wants what her friend did and says it worked. According to that girls parents it did work so far, and their daughter is clean, didn’t miss any school, sees a therapist .

Is it possible that some of your experiences are extreme and they are not the norm? No offense to anyone. I do appreciate your help so very much, but there are many decisions to make and not much time on our part. Still the ROD is scheduled for Monday.


I never heard of the salvation Army having free treatment. Has anyone used it? are they local in all areas? I don’t think my daughter would go for it, she wouldn’t go near a salvation army store, so I cant imagine her agreeing to go into a treatment center, and when I think about it; she might not be a good fit there with other participants. Thoughts ?

Chino

If the friend is truly honestly clean after her first detox, then she's the exception to the rule.

As far as it 'working'? Of course it works. It's detox, not a treatment. It speeds up healing the brain damage by about 6 months. Getting clean is the easy part; staying clean is the hard part.

Your daughter's attitude of entitlement, combined with yours and your husbands severe codependency, doesn't give me a good feeling about her staying clean.

Your story is so similar to mine.

I have something I want to leave with you. This was shared with all the loved ones during family week, when my daughter finally went to inpatient rehab:

If you can't say NO, you have no business dating, getting married, having children.

itsthepop

We have said no to plenty things in time, but so far the professionals are not saying the ROD treatment is anything but good, they are not condemming her to years of rehabs and treatment either. They seem optimistic for her future and her return to school in the fall.

That is why I asked if some of you could be the exception. There are always exceptions and cases where standard treatment does not work.

tjp613

Actually, it's quite the opposite... your 'daughter's friend' is the exception to the rule and our experiences are the 'norm'. It's almost impossible to research recovery rates, but I think it is generally accepted that 10-15% are still clean a year after treatment....and that is probably a generous figure. [SR Family - correct me if I'm wrong!]

One thing I would like to ask you, please!.... Let us know how this detox works. If it's successful with your daughter then we certainly want to know about it and would appreciate your sharing your experience with us over the next 6 months or longer.

EJG123

Have you contacted your insurance provider? They should be able to help you understand what services/treatments are available and covered by your plan.

I looked into a rapid detox program in Michigan at one time and did not like what I heard. Pretty much you spend a few hours being detoxed under sedation and then they put you up in a local hotel and a nurse stops by to check on you once. I got the impression that it was still possible to feel sick and be withdrawing after the "procedure" was over.

Alternatively, there are regular and specialized hospitals that handle inpatient detoxifications. It takes a few days- maybe 3-5. Then recommendations are made for follow-up which can be anything from an intensive outpatient program (several weekly group therapy sessions for 3 or more months) to an inpatient residential program
(30/60/90/+ days depending on needs and ability to pay). Almost all will recommend support meetings like AA or NA on a regular basis. Many rehab programs will require AA/NA as a condition of continuing treatment. Your D will know and assoicate with other addicts for support in AA/NA and from group therapy.

My husband had to have counseling to deal with our D's addiction. He is doing better now but it was hard on him.

LoveMeNow

Well, some people believe their addicts are "special" and their choice of treatment is "special." In fact, many of us thought that at one time or another but life experiences with dealing with addiction has taught us differently.

Some even believe you can acquire an addiction for drugsa nd it's not a life long disease. However, that is just not a popular theory. Personally, I would trust a recovery addicts opinion over and Dr's or some one who just started to be educated in addiction.

I would caution you about what some rehabs and Doctors have to say.....addiction is big money. For $100,000 plus, you can be told whatever you want to hear.

Money doesn't buy better treatment..if it did - the Charlie Sheen's and Lindsay Lohan's would be clean and sober. Just something for you to think about.

Again, I am sorry you have to experience the world of addiction. I pray your daughter is ready for a clean and sober life or you (SHE) will have a long, scary, stressful road ahead of you. There is NOTHING good about addiction.

Chino

tjp, it very easily and successfully detoxed my then 20 year old IV opiate addict daughter (the place she went to in CA is where all the stars go). The addictionologist STRONGLY suggested inpatient rehab but she didn't want to and I didn't insist.

My daughter let go of her commitment to aftercare (the alternate treatment plan they sent her home with) right around 6 months. She relapsed.

itsthepop

I have talked to the insurance people several times. They wont pay for the ROD. But they will pay for medical detox in a hospital.

She will undergo the ROD procedure in the hospital. The clinics doctors have priveledges there. Like the other person who posted said, you get admitted to the hospital, go under sedation, they give medications, stay under sedattion about 8 hours I think, then she will be in the hospital for they say about 3 days and then released. We talkd to them in detail about the procedure, and I feel that it is safe.

Please dont misunderstand, I do see the point you are all making about her needing to feel the consequences of her actions. My daughters life has so far not been devestated by the drugs.

She has not been using but for a few months. That is when her friend entered her life. She was already hooked on these drugs. My daughter did not progress from pill popping, snorting to injecting.

She said she started injecting first. I think this is true because she has familiarity with needles as she was a diabetic. Her condition no longer requires medication, but she did for a few years. Possibly this drew her to trying the drug, and not feearing the needle.

My daughter has been in school, has made good grades. It hasnt affected most of her life so she is like someone said not suffering from the use. But she says she wants to stop but the withdrawls are too bad.

In a way I would like to see her enter a rehab after talkign with you all, and the doctors today. I think it would do her good to be required to submit to rules and regulations, have drug test, and feel some of the dark side of addiction. Maybe not dark to what some of you have seen, but dark to her is what is important.

Salvation Army I looked it up requires 6 months anyway, so she cant do that.
But they do require service or work for part of the treatment and maybe that would be good for her.

I know she would view it as punishment, and I have trouble with that.

Can anyone suggest what they would REQUIRE from a rehab in order to possibly help my daughter the most? Some do not require NA snd some do. She does not want this, but maybe it would be good for her. Participation is mandatory in some of them or she could be asked to leave.
Some require work, but she will only have 30 - 45 days if she makes it back to school for Fall term.

Im sorry to be all over the place, but I feel so rushed in time. I have days literally to put this together.

I am going to talk to her father tonight and tell him abotu the therapy visits today, her attitude toward me and treatment, and the concept of knocking her down to reality a bit by making this more uncomfortable for her.







I do not mean to insult anyone by my comments about maybe your the exception. But I have to ask, please understand.

itsthepop

thank you for sharing about your experience with ROD. Im glad to hear your husband is doing well. Bless.

itsthepop

thank you for sharing your experinece with ROD. Im trying to find the best aftercare which is why Im asking so many questions.

I never suggested to do ROD and that was all, They told us follow up care was necessary and gave us lots of options. In her case, they are open to outpatient follow up, or inpatient.

Maybe this is because of the duration of her use, and the amount she says she takes. They say it is a small dose. And it is hydrocodone.

Sasha4

I probably should not be posting here but wondered if my experience would help you.

I became addicted to benzodiazepine sleeping tablets. They were LEGALLY prescribed to me by a doctor after a hospital specialist became involved and they believed the risk of addiction outweighed the state i was in that led them to be prescribed.

Fast forward a few years and I decided for a number of reasons I had to stop taking them.
I did it on my own, which I would not recommend. I should have had medical assistance but did not realise at the time. Reading here, I do now.

I had two weeks of withdrawals.
The first week I took as holiday from work. I had every symptom known to man. Restless legs, like I had flu, aches, shivers and pain.
The second week I felt nervous, tired, bit achy but I still worked full time.

The memory of what I went through mad me never ever want to take one of those tablets again. I went through so much, and it such hard work. I will never put myself in that situation again - even if legally prescribed.

I think if I could have 'slept it away' I might have been tempted to take the odd one again............every now and then.
I made myself work hard and set myself a goal.
And reaching my goal makes me still feel proud of myself...but I will never, ever, ever go back for more.

IT IS SOMETHING I WILL NEVER FORGET IN A HURRY!!
I KNOW NOW I CAN NEVER TAKE THOSE TABLETS AGAIN.

I wish you and your husband all the best.
I hope your daughter gets well soon.

itsthepop

As I said, I do believe she started by injecting because of her familiarity of needles due to her prior use on insulin. I dont think it escalated from pill popping. I also know the timeframe when all this started and I have nailed it down to be truth.

What I dont understand is if the pain of experienceing withdrawl is so beneficial then why is no one here saying that stopped their addict love one from going back. I dont hear that from anyone.

itsthepop

thank you for sharing

Chino

Did she have bariatric surgery? Regardless, she had to learn how to manage her diabetes. Well, she has to learn how to manage this disease and rehab is a great place for that. They'll give her tools and coping skills that will always stay with her.

I can't tell you how many times I quit, then picked back up smoking cigarettes, and it's nothing compared to sticking needles in the arms and shooting up opiates.

My daughter is 24 now and has been in recovery for two years. She uses what she learned in rehab every day. I use what I learned at her rehab every day, too.

dollydo

Your daughter is an addict and a hard core one. She will be an addict all her life, it is just
a matter of whether she is clean and working a strong recovery program or not. There
is no cure for her disease.

IMO detox is just the beginning of her journey, a mere drop in the bucket. You can
spend thousands on her recovery, however, it will all be a waste of money unless she
is ready to recover and work a strong recovery program for life...not my rules...just how it works.

You, too, are on a journey, to recover from codependency and enabling. Unless, you and your husband get healthy, nothing will change. I suggest that you both get to Naranon meetings and read Codependency No More.

This is a disease that has tenacles that affect everything and everyone that it comes into contact with.

I am sorry that you are having to deal with this disease, knowledge is power, learn all you can about this disease and keep posting and reading it will help.

LoveMeNow

itsapop - I hope your daughter is being truthful about her usage. Addicts usually lie and down play it. I think it is said - to multiply it (the usage, the length of time, etc) by at least 10 times. Based on my experience, I believe that to be a fair number.

You do realize in any treatment program, she will be with other addicts, right?? (like NA)

Also, do you believe an alcoholic can just stop drinking? Do you believe they can never have another drink again? Do you believe that they can do this on their own?

Lastly, without the proper treatment, education, and tools..it is very likely your daughter can go from one addiction to another.

outtolunch

Detox does not cure addiction.
Rehabs do not cure addiction.
Therapy does not cure addiction.

Very best case, a rehab and/or therapy is an opportunity to teach highly motivated guests/patients some of the tools of recovery. Failure to apply those lessons means relapse.

Like you, I came to this forum with the belief my daughter was different from other addicts who fiended and slammed dope. I was obsessed with supporting and protecting her and was determined to beat my daughter's demon. I was mistaken.

Your daughter is not motivated to do much of anything, right now. Who knows, despite the odds, maybe she will be the one in 10 million that is able to walk away from all substances, going forward. I wish you peace.