catlovermi

Already, you underestimate addiction.

How did she finance her illegal dope, and needles, I ask?

She is much more resourceful than you think, as all addicts are.

The same amount of resourcefulness should be applied by the addict for their own recovery. Every ounce of her earned consequences (i.e. - the pains of her situation she has created) that you take away or ease is an ounce more likelihood that she will not have the desperation to do whatever it takes to recover and stay clean.

Addicts do what it takes to get clean when they are in extreme pain due to their using and the pain of continuing to use begins to outweigh the pain of stopping. That is pretty much the only logical formula that applies to addiction.

It doesn't work any other way, because addiction is a formidable foe that will hold on for any opening to re-start. Successful recovering addicts are scared to death of relapse because they know the pain that will come.

And they decide the pain of relapse isn't worth the high.

CLMI

walktheline1

1. Being around other addicts in a rehab situation will help your daughter. Just because someone is an addict does not mean they are the scum of the earth. They can relate to her and help her more on the addiction than you ever could because they have been there and experienced what she is going through.

2. You can play warden all you want, but you're wasting your time. If she wants sobriety she has to do it on her own. You can't babysit her the rest of her life.

3. Do everything you can to help her get a degree without supporting her addiction. If she doesn't finish now she has a low chance of going back.

4. You may want to consider letting her go through the pain of withdraw. Going through semi-extreme withdrawals is the only thing keeping me sober. I didn't really screw my life up or do anything bad. If I didn't go to hell and back during withdraw I'd probably be drinking again right now cause there would be no real consequences for me.

5. Your 13 year old probably already knows what's going on. And if he sees her withdrawing he will probably stay away from the stuff forever. Don't shelter him or he may make the same mistakes.


I know I'm coming off harsh, but I've watched my best friends cycle through all the opiates and end up on IV heroin. I've had multiple friends OD, I've watched the withdraws, I've seen their pain. The only way they've gotten better is through hitting their rock bottom and wanting sobriety. It seems like your daughter wants it, but you have to give her her space or she'll turn around and relapse as soon as you're gone.

This is just my 2 cents so take it for what it's worth. I'm a 24 year old recovering alcoholic. I have a degree in engineering from a prestigious university, a wonderful job, a house, and more money in the bank than I know what to do with . But my alcohol addiction flipped my world upside down. Luckily I caught it in time and didn't lose anything besides some sleep and a little sanity. Addiction affects people from all walks of life. But your daughter can recover.

Anyways, welcome to SR and I encourage you to keep reading. There is so much to learn on this website. Good luck.

Ilovemysonjj

Hello, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Shooting drugs is the third step in opiate addiction. They usually start popping pills or snorting, then move to smoking and (from my own experience with my son) the shooting starts. Shooting opiates is WAY more powerful high and the compulsion to use is much stronger. There is a ritual that goes along with the actual using of the drug, which many addicts find as pleasurable as the actual high.
PLEASE don't be in denial about how serious this is. I am a caring, loving mother who is right now without my oldest son (he disappeared after rehab and SLE) and I wish I had been more knowledgeable about the length/depth of this addiction. My son graduated from oxy and benzos to heroin without a blink of an eye. There is no stigma with our kids on Heroin like we had growing up. I would NEVER had done heroin when I was in my late teens and early 20's, it was considered a loser drug. Now it is simply a cheaper way to get the oxy high. My son had done detox at home with a cocktail of non opiate pills that helped him with the symptoms. He has also detoxed inpatient and they put him on suboxone. That was not the desired method since suboxone only prevents the real withdrawals. There is a lot of counseling she will need once she detoxes. This is not a one time shot, this will be a lifetime of her temptation to do it "one more time" which will lead to many more times. It is well worth the inpatient rehab which they enter SOBER after the detox to be able to adjust to life without this high that robs them of their own will and humanity.
Hugs and prayers,
Teresa

cangel2

IV drug use is definately a well formed addiction. This is very serious and you should not be taking this lightly. A couple of additional observations:

1. You laughed at the notion that your daughter should bear some financial responsibility for her recovery. I think that is essential to her ability to feel that she has some control over her life - that is a skill that will help her remain sober.
2. I seriously think that expecting her to detox and then go back to school is fantasy. My son took a quarter off from school and it was too soon for him to go back (his take on this not mine); even after 30 day rehab. But school was part of his recovery plan -he counts that first quarter back as a complete waste from an academic standpoint but useful from a life lessons standpoint. He also took out loans himself for all additional college to minimize our expense since we are helping offset the difference between insurance and his continued therapy work.
3. My son "hates" being financially dependent on us....he wants to be able to do everything for himself and this motivates him to stay sober, finish school, work a part time job and live as inexpensively as he can. That is recovery!
4. Many things he needed to do and many things he still needs to do are inconvenient and got in the way of his having a good time and having things the way he wanted them to be. Now he has to make an effort, do the work, do things he doesn't want to because he has to - basically he had to start growing up and stop expecting his parents to take care of everything. (His parents in turn had to detach and allow him to be responsible for himself).

Just sharing my experience and observations - I will mention that my son is 22 so very close in age to your daughter.

Another poster mentioned this but PLEASE be hyper aware Sunday and learn about overdose between now and then. I have heard many stories about the night before - or even hour before checking in to a program since my son went to rehab that if I had known would have prepared me better. Many addicts need to say good-bye - they are morning the loss of something that has been very important to them for a long time and sometimes it gets out of control. My son decided to shoot heroin just before I picked him up to drive him in......just because he thought if he got clean he wouldn't have the chance to try it after. Logical right?

Take care and keep posting. You have received some excellent support and people with a lot of experience have shared with you to try to help. We have all been there in some form and care.

amaslow

My 22 year old daughter has been an opiate addict for over 2 years..Prior to this addiction she was a cheerleader,( school and competitive) Homecoming court, great athlete, voted class favorite and was planning on getting a degree in journalism... This addiction stuff is serioius business!!
Like your daughter, she came to me after some initial discovery on my part and admitted the addiction... she was getting dope sick.. She went to 3 days detox and them went into an oupatient program.. she dropped out of that program ( she didn't like the people.. very depressing)....keep reading
Within 2 months she was using again and didn't want help.. I kicked her out of my house.. But by this time she had a boyfriend to take her in.. Yes, he was using too..( The son of a very prominent university professor,,, parents in bad denial over this kid)...It's all kind of a blurr, but sometime after this,,,we reconciled somewhat ( I think this was before I knew boyfriend was using and she told me she wasn't ) . Found out she was using again and she went to another outpatient treatment, but dropped out.. Boyfriend did not want her going to inpatient... ( Withing a few months I found a needle ( yes... she had progressed to IV use with Phd's son) and called boyfreind's parents. They were not sure he was an addict and took him to their family Dr., who was a good friend, to make that call,...

.Then , BF and my daugter thought the Suboxone program would cure them... BF parents liked this idea... so.. they were on Suboxone for 6 months ( probably still using too) and decided to detox from that... By this time BF parents had built a beautiful second home on the lake out of state .. a perfect place to detox...Of course , they got some Rx from physician friend to help with that.. an oh yes.. BF ( who likes to drink too) consumed wine ( of course it was "good" wine) to take the edge off...

Back home after the detox spa.... 2 weeks and back using again....my daughter stoled money from me ( not the first time)and I told her treatment or jail.... Now we get a real in-patient treatment center for 6 wks.... insurance covered 3 wks... by this time my daughter has the veil lifted enough to dump boyfriend,,,, from here we go to a "free" half way house ... but she didn't like it there and wanted to go back to school so she shows up with all her stuff at my door.....We agreed on a plan and of course in no time she is off course and using again....

back to inpatient, relapse prevention treatment for 4 weeks.. still insurance won't pay for residential, but this time I pay the treatment center half way house...for 2 months.. She gets sick while she is there.. LIVER FAILURE... talk of transplant.. she is seriously ill.. Find out that she has Hep C, but that is not the cause of the liver failure... They find a low level of plain tylenol in her blood and believe that is the problem. She responds to treatment and recovers..

Back to halfway house Much progress is made here,.. then she breaks a rule, taking a girl from there to meet a boy.... and is kicked out....back home, going to meetings,working a program, gets certified as a personal trainer, has 2 jobs.... attitude gets bad.. know it all...then relapse.. tries to destox herseslf and stay clean for 2 weeks.. failing...

She sees a psychiatrist who says she may have a low level bi=polar disorder and puts her on a med, but he wants her in treatment immediatly... and reccomends what he says is the best treatment center in country...This is where she is today...In 2 days she is leaving this place and flying to California.. for an all womens residential treatment center,, that is costing me a lot of money ( thought it is in the average range when I researched ) my net work is in the negative now, as you can imagine, I am a single parent with no financial help from her father.

This is so long.. I will stop and let you digest this... I will post again on my hindsight..

allthatsgood

So much knowledge and wisdom on this site. Wish I would have known about it when I first began my journey with my 22 year old AS 2 years ago. I was just totally uneducated about the depth of heroin addiction. I learned the hard way. I thought detoxing would put an end to it and it would all be over. how wrong I was.

tjp613

What is she shooting? Nevermind...it doesn't matter.

I'm sorry, but I see so many red flags in your posts that I don't even know where to begin. And I promise I am not saying these things to belittle you, shame you, or anything like that. I just want you and your HUSBAND (!) to be made aware of the reality of what you are facing.

You admit you know nothing about addiction and that seems very clear because it sounds as if you think all she needs is the desire and a $10K detox and all will be back to normal. You are so wrong and you all are in for a world of hurt and financial devastation if you don't get educated QUICKLY.

The other thing that keeps popping out in your posts is that "We don't WANT this or that." "She doesn't WANT this or that..." To be frank, none of that matters. It doesn't matter that you don't "want" her college education disrupted....that is already done! And if you waste your money on a fancy detox, you won't have money for the treatment she is surely going to need down the road. I would find the best INPATIENT rehab you can afford and it will cost about $15-20,000 for a 30-40 day treatment. 90 days is even better if you can afford it. The rehab will include a 5-6 day medically supervised detox and they will make her as comfortable as possible... meds to help her sleep and meds to ease her physical symptoms. It's like the flu but nothing like detoxing at home, cold turkey. And I whole-heartedly agree that she needs to feel sick like a dog so she won't want to go thru it again!!! Believe me, if she doesn't feel the physical consequences of detox, she'll be back using again within a week. And you'll be out $10,000. Use that $10K toward a good treatment center.

[by the way, my 21 year old son is in his THIRD rehab and FIFTH detox for opiate addiction... and fortunately insurance has paid the bulk of it -- probably about $75,000 so far....and we're not done by any stretch. After he started shooting a year ago, his life has gone downhill exponentially fast.]

I have to say I am a bit offended by the tone of your posts when you say you don't want your daughter around all those drug addicts!! LOL.... guess what??! Your daughter is one of 'em! And so is my precious beloved son. He wasn't always one....opiates did it to him. And opiates have done it to your daughter, too. Get it through your skull -- your daughter is NOT SPECIAL. I'm so sorry to say it. Really, I am! My son comes from a good family and he has never wanted for anything....which is part of the problem. ONLY when he began to DIRECTLY experience the consequences of his choices (hunger & homelessness) has he even had a fighting chance at real recovery. We've been fighting this demon for 6 years now. Outside of rehab he's only managed to string together about 20 days. THAT is the power of opiate addiction. I love my son every bit as much as you love your child....and I've made ALL the mistakes you are making now.

Again, I apologize if my tone has offended you. It is not my intention at all! I want you to wake up and wake up quickly so that the resources you have are not mis-spent and your good intentions don't end up hurting all of you rather than helping any of you.

kmangel

As much as you and your husband want to protect your daughter, there is no easy way through detox but for her to suck it up and do it. This is one thing you can not do for her. We as parents try to help our kids in many other ways, often only hurting our kids more than helping them. My husband has said in the past about the car we gave our son--that he would lose his job without a car. I stopped caving in to my husband's enabling our son and demanded the car keys from our son. He now takes the bus. He still has his job, too! I am prepared to give the car back to our son at some point in the future but when I brought it up, he said he was going to buy a scooter instead to save money on gas and insurance. He is showing maturity IMO. Don't be afraid to be tough with your daughter--she may just surprise you.

Get counseling for you and your husband. Learn all you can about enabling. Set boundaries for while your daughter is living at home. Go to Al-Anon or some other group for friends and family of addicts. You need to prepare yourselves to live with a recovering addict. Your daughter has learned how to live as an addict and her relating to you has changed from before she began using drugs.

My son became addicted to opiates and later heroin while living in another state. We were blissfully unaware for four years. When heroin entered the picture is when we finally learned how serious a problem with drugs he had. Our son was ordered by a judge to rehab. My husband and I thought that we could trust our son after he came out of rehab but we soon came to learn that he could still string us along. It takes time for the recovering addict to earn back trust. They have to work at it.

What you want or expect from your daughter may not be what she is ready or willing to give you and your husband. In time you both will know. Be prepared. Know what your boundaries are and stick by them.

amaslow

Well said tjp 613

Ilovemysonjj

Agree with TJP

crazybabie

Please get educated ASAP I can tell you about overdose my son was in the local police cadet program and also the youngest in our county to be allowed to enter the Sheriffs reserve. I was defiantly one proud mama I get a phone call one night from a girl he knew telling me the shape he was in and where he was I called an ambulance and my hubby and I ran out the door. When we got there he was alert enough to refuse the ambulance. I talked with the paramedics and told them we, were taking him home with us and asked what to do we, were advised to keep him awake for several hours we lived about 15 minutes from where he was.

He kept falling asleep in hubbys truck (I drove sons car home) it took me and hubby to get him in the house we sit him on the couch and he kept falling asleep I didn't know what too do. I took a wet washrag and was ringing it all over him then I hear a snoring sound I then nothing hubby calls 911 I am checking for a pulse and there is NONE 911 is telling hubby for us to lay him in the floor and telling him to start CPR, hubby hands me the phone and I listen and start CPR. Trust me no one wants to ever have to do this especially to their precious child. He was at this time 21.

The paramedics came and took over at first they were gonna have med flight come out then they decided to take him by ambulance I was reliever I THOUGHT that meant he was OK. I rode in the front of the ambulance they ran no siren's, stopped at all traffic lights and had no lights going on the ambulance.

I once again thought everything was OK. I was WRONG, once I was allowed to go back where he was at the hospital my son was on life support first thing I saw was a breathing tube.

I thank God daily for saving my sons life...
Just a side note often when they seem to be snoring they are actually choking on their own aspiration my son was doing this and I know of another boy that died because his parents thought he was snoring. ( I am by no means saying he would have survied if they knew just that maybe they could have gotten help and seen what happened it is NOT their fault )

I am not in your shoes and can not tell you what to do of course with that said if it was my son he would be going to a rehab where he was detoxing with professional help and feeling some consequence not for punishment but because I love him and would want him to have that memory to possibly give him a second thought if he was considering doing it again and many do.

Trust me I love my son as much as you love your daughter.

itsthepop

Thank you everyone for taking the time to share with us. I have let my husband read all of your posts last night. We continued to do more research online, and talked in length about the options given to us by the doctor. My poor husband had to leave for his business trip this morning, so I am alone to hold down the fort. My daughter and I have appointments with a couple of individual counselors today. We are trying to find a good match and have it set up before she comes home from detox.

We have given a lot of thought about your experiences. I think at some point last night we both agreed that maybe we are taking too much control of this situation, because our daughter is a responsible adult, and she did get herself into this mess. He was frustrated to come home from work yesterday and find that UPS had left a box on the porch. My daughter has been shopping online while we are working so hard to find her help. That drove home the point that maybe we are letting her take the easy way out.

We are now seriously considering withdrawing from the ROD that was set up for Monday, and instead having her admitted so she can undergo supervised detox, which would allow her to experience more of the consequences of her actions. We have not made the final decision because it is so hard to let your child experience pain when you know you can do something to prevent it. I plan to discuss this with the counselors we meet today and get their opinions.

We are also now wondering if a full rehab would be better for her. Our insurance wants to only pay for outpatient I think because she has had no drug problems in the past and they say that treatment is provided on an escalating basis. If this doesn’t work, then go to the next step. We could pay for the full rehab ourselves if it comes to it. Again that takes away our daughters responsibility, but she cannot afford rehab, and its not free!

All three of us hope that she will be able to start the Fall term at school as normal. But I am going to discuss with her today the idea that maybe she should accept the possibility that it may not happen depending on how things go the next couple months. Her health has to come first.

I also guess I am weakening a little on accepting her attitude is somewhat shaped by ours. We have been thinking, based on what the doctors tell us, that this can be over and done with . But what all of you are saying is that she really needs is to accept that she cannot control it and show some signs of submission to treatment and humility. This is very difficult to accept that the problem may be bigger than what we can handle on our own.

Also, after your comments on how she could go on a binge Sunday before detox, do you have any advice on how to prevent this, or how to monitor her?

Any thoughts. You were all very helpful yesterday even though some of your comments were a bit harsh in my opinion.

BeavsDad

Any harshness you sensed was purely based on concern.
"Take what you want and leave the rest."

Her "potential" binge could be anytime this weekend. Short of tieing her up or distributing doses to her yourself, there's not much you can do.

Glad to hear that you're becoming aware that there is a very real possibility that this can be a long term issue.
It is not like an unwanted pregnancy that can be "taken care of".

You've already keyed in on something. Her attitude and willingness to do whatever is necessary, no matter what, to start fighting this is crucial.

Try to take your "wants" out of it and gauge where she's at by her actions and not her words.

Although I hope it does, prepare for the very real possibility that whatever treatment she gets may not stick the first time.

Ilovemysonjj

Dear Pop, when my son first admitted to heroin (in March 2010), we did the at home detox and followed up with IOP in our insurance. Since we knew absolutely nothing about heroin, we thought this was a "blip" and our son would never do it again. We had about 4 good weeks, then a meltdown occured and the relapses started. He escalated to stealing things from us and even went to jail for it. Our BIGGEST mistake was acting like the first time was the last time. It changes the entire dynamic of your family and your interaction. I pray that your daughter embraces recovery, but if she faces no consequences, then she hasn't really seen the dark side of addiction.
Good luck, be strong and keep coming here for help. I come here every day for my strength and peace of mind
Hugs,
Teresa

kmangel

Opiate addiction is serious business. I'm glad you are starting to realize this will not be an easy fix. It depends on how motivated your daughter is to recover. If she has not experienced enough unpleasantness (using is more painful than not using in regards to the mess she has made of her life), then she may not be ready to embrace all you are offering her in the way of recovery. I hope so for all of your sakes. It wasn't until my son graduated to heroin that he began to sense he was in over his head. He lost his job, his girlfriend, his home, his car, pawning meaningful things to him like his guitar, and winded up in jail, etc. Up until that point in time he was just having a good time--he was still fairly functional. Friends dying right and and left from drug abuse didn't cause him to evaluate what he was doing with his life. He must have thought he had it under control. Addicts lie to themselves. You and I look at their lives and think how did they get so entrenched? If they do see it they ignore it. Drug addiction is all encompassing. It totally dictates their life choices. Now my son on the other side of addiction can see things more like you and I do. He has regrets, but he's also beginning to like himself again--is not ashamed any longer because he is not the person he was then.

Elphie

itsthepop....

Have you read the sticky post up there ^^^ called "What addicts do"....if not, read it, remember it...written by an addict and it hurts as a parent to think our own flesh and blood would do that to us...but, it's what addicts do.

They will lie, use our love for them against us, steal and use any means neccessary to pull the wool over our eyes...and USE. Until they submit to treatment, whatever treatment is offered, not their version of treatment, not their choice of ways/places, whatever is offered...then they are NOT really likely to improve.

My daughter "self detoxed" last weekend, she did self medicate using pot and prescribed xanex to get through it (which is still such b.s) but, she spent 4-5 days completely sick, in pain, in bed, and feeling pretty awful. I hope she learned something from it, but, i doubt it since she is still refusing to submit to treatment. She wants an easy out, a quick fix to a HUGE problem....do i think the lesson was learned? NOPE...it is easy to forget being sick, once you feel better.

I love my daughter, I do NOT love the addict she has become. She has nearly destroyed everyone's lives with her addiction, she has completely destroyed any trust i had and right now I don't believe ONE WORD she says to me or others about wanting to get better. I called the cops a week ago when she said if i made her go to rehab she would kill herself, i hoped that being pulled out of the house by the cops, brought to the ER and drug tested would be a big wake up call, not sure it worked, she is still refusing treatment.

NEVER underestimate an addicts need for the drugs, or what it will take to get them clean. Your daughter will likely be fighting this addiction for a very long time, there is no magic cure, no quick fix...the sooner you and your H face the seriousness of what addiction really does to people, the sooner you may be able to really help your daughter.

Keep reading, keep researching....this road is not easy...and it is LONG....

outtolunch

There is no such thing as addiction being over and done with. If ROD were the magic bullet it is purported to be by some MDs and other "professionals" who financially benefit from referring and selling the product, insurance would pay for it. Heck, Governments would pay for it. The cost is a drop in the bucket compared to the financial toll opiates takes out of society. I cannot stress enough how " recovery" is business, big business. So many of these places will encourage/guilt parents to take out a home equity loan or withdraw funds from their 401K to save their child. If all it took was money, the opiate pandemic would be solved.

A medically assisted detox is uncomfortable, like the flu according to my daughter. We are not talking about natural child birth, here. On a scale of 1-10, detox likely does not register as 1 in terms of long-term recovery. Recovery from opiate addiction is not a summer project. There is no magic bullet.

Back when I was in your shoes, I used every bit of leverage to get help for my daughter. Yeah, she wanted to be clean. She did not however want to put any effort into it. She, like your daughter, wanted a magic bullet solution. If only ......

Your daughter puts her life on the line every time she shoots dope. Many parents, adult children, siblings, spouces and significant others, here, have lost loved ones to OD. That she is doing so under your roof, suggests how much you don't know.

And in the meantime, she is shopping online....living a life without consequences while her mom and dad are loosing their minds, consumed and obsessed with fixing their adult child- the tail is wagging the dog.

LoveMeNow

What you perceive as harsh is only because so many here KNOW about addiction and to help you come out denial. I know, I was once there too. Heck, many of us have been.

Please know this....your (addict) daughter is not special, your love is not special, and you can not love her clean and sober.

The 3 C's of addiction are - you didn't cause this, you can't control it and you can't cure it.

Hard stuff to accept but FACTUAL!

My prayers are with you!!

Chino

Your daughter has a disease now and it's forever. Not only has she damaged her brain (hopefully temporary), she's also changed her brain forever. Her brain grew extra opiate receptors to handle the abuse, and they'll never ever go away. Those extra receptors are like a sleeping beast. Once they're woken up, all hell will break loose again.

Your daughter needs to learn everything possible about her disease and how to treat it. She needs to study addiction, brain chemistry, and behavior modification. She needs professional help and guidance from knowledgeable people.

She has to own her disease and you have to let her, or it will continue to own all of you.

crazybabie

I know it is hard too think about your daughter experiencing pain after all as mothers we kiss their boo boos, scare away the boogie man, keep them safe however she is now an adult kissing the boo boo will simply not work. Have you thought about what if something happened to you and/or your husband? I hope you choose the supervised detox IMO it is her best chance.

When I first joined here I also felt people were harsh and still sometimes do when what is said I am not ready to hear. What I have learned from this, is the harshness was reality things I needed to see experience from others that knew so much more than I do. As, someone else said take what you want and leave the rest.