minnie

One of the big thoughts that went through my mind when I split up with my ex was that I just could not see myself walking down the aisle with him at the other end. That was one time when projection helped me out.

Anyway, back to love. If I think back, I don't think I ever mentioned on here that I loved my ex. And part of that is because I began to realise that I didn't know him, so how on earth could I love him? Perhaps my situation is different because I know now that he is not "just" an alcoholic, but also a con-artist, in colloquial terms. I think I struggle to understand some of the posts you refer to because I see my situation so clearly in them. Perhaps projection letting me down in that situation.

I guess I don't think love of another is enough without love for myself.

sunshine003

Speaking of "love" it is strange what gives us that gooey feeling for some and not for others, those with whom we shoudl feel it for. I do not like to compare past relationships to my present one but I"m going to for a second.

My first husband is a kind man. He is smart, funny, responsible, stable, a good listner...he has a gentle and wonderful personality. He is trust worthy and never did a single thing to earn anything other than my trust. He was safe and always had our familys well being at heart. He was my friend. I'm not putting him on a pedistol or trying to relive my past with him. This is the truth and who he is. I do not believe we could ever "be together" again in that way, I do not love him that way. But I wonder why I lost that for him or if I ever had it. I respect him. Maybe he was the great love of my life and I let it slip. Why? Perhaps it's because he was normal or too safe. Maybe him being so nice wasn't comfortable.

I didn't know or think I came from dysfunction until I began the divorce process from my first husband.

With him my world was safe but that boredom was so unfamiliar that I mistook it for "not loving him."

Many nights I wished for that boring life again, LOL.

ASpouse

That's very interesting sunshine ........ almost like "the grass is greener on the other side" type of thinking.

paula a.

I don't know if love is an issue by the time you figure out that you are in an abusive relationship...by the time you realize that the abuse is going to continue, you are mired in the whole "it'll be better tomorrow" and I did say "for better or worse", didn't I? Because you have to give it a chance, marriage isn't supposed to be all easy, right? So you go on with life, and try to keep things as calm and normal as you can for the kids sake. I didn't want to lose that financial security, for their sake. I think it's a matter of being caught up in the "what if I go and it's worse out there?" scenario.
So, if you are asking if love kept me with him, I'd have to say no. Fear did.

sunshine003

maybe it's that type of thinking. I think it's more, the grass was greener, he is a good catch....why didnt I love myself enough? Sometimes, some of us think that when the spark is gone, so is the love. It got to the point that he and I just co-existed in the same house and that spark seemed impossible (on my end) to get back. The thought of making love to him felt wrong, as if he was my brother. We got divorced. Looking back, what happened there happens to lots of people. I should have realized that the "spark" was in all his qualities.

I don't know where I'm going with that, it's over, we are good friends and I'm happy with that. I wouldn't trade my time with him for anything.

Sometimes I think that with my ah now, I have the spark but not the things I mention I had with my first husband. yet, I'd give anything to be able to work this out but I didn't give that to my first marriage...kinda sick.

Cynay

I dont know if its sick or we just grow and mature.

Im not the same person now that I was in my 20s... hence my needs and wants will have changed. Not to mention Im much more mature, and have some life to reference from now.

minnie

The spark goes - it's a chemical trick on our brains. It's what happens afterwards that counts. The Road Less Travelled is a very interesting read on this topic.

Lack of drama isn't boring, although it may seem like that, especially if we were raised in a drama-filled household. Security isn't boring, solidity isn't boring. Drama is certainly exciting, having someone who is screwing up all the time (in our mind) is certainly useful for deflecting us from our own issues as is the fact that there is just always something going on in an alcoholic household to take our minds off what is really going on deep within us. I definitely sought that out - the reason I was with someone who needed rescuing was partly so that I could bury myself in his problems rather than face my own.

Anway, Love. I think I took the easy way and substituted the word love in place of so many different emotions - fear and neediness being the main ones. "But I love him" was not expressed outwardly very often, but it was a continual tape in my head. The reality was more like "I love the idea of what he can be", "I don't want to be alone", "My body-clock's ticking, this is my last chance", "I can't start over again", "It's no wonder he drinks, given his background" etc etc ad nauseum. To me, that is where the real honesty comes in. Stripping away the easy words and really delve into my psyche.

Girlfriend

Then, .......why did you stay with him while he was drinking?



I loved my xabf because of what I knew of him from the past, when we were in junior high and high school together (sober, funny, charming, handsome, popular, athletic) and my hopeful perception of him in the future.


But, especially now that he totally said "I don't have anymore to say to you" a month ago for no reason (none that I provoked) other than he wrecked his knee and was in pain...I realize that he lied his way through our whole relationship and kept me stringing along.

So, that's not love. It's not love when only one person is doing the loving part. The active A (and/or dry drunk) doesn't love anything but getting loaded or running away from life in their own head. It's only true love when you both work at it, not just say it.

ASpouse

Because I went to Al Anon and a therapist and starting peeling away the layers of crap that hid me. I was in no shape to be by myself with two kids, not financially speaking, but I needed to get "me" back before I could make a decision. I was not going to run off helter skelter with two small kids when I didn't even have a sense of me. Our relationship was not abusive, he was drunk, I wasn't. It was easy to live with him, drunk or not! Girlfriend, don't get me wrong, I've lamented "but I know he loves me, I know what he can be, I know he's wonderful without booze" .... believe me I've said those words many many many times ...... and you know what, none of those words, none of my begging & pleading, crying and threatening sent him to recovery. He went on his own and will readily tell anyone that he went for himself, not for me or our kids because he knew if he took care of himself, the rest would fall into place (meaning me, the kids, our finances) and it did.

Paula at least you're honest and that I admire and respect ..... calling a spade a spade. I'm sure it wasn't easy, but I could see myself doing something just like you did.

By the time I was coming through the peels, we were getting along, he was in recovery, I was in recovery and comfortable in my own skin. We just grew from there and the love we have for each other just took on a life of it's own, the love part was nothing we had to work at, it was there. It was all the other things that go along with love, truth, honesty and everything else that needed work and still does. I would never be so naieve to think we're done working on ourselves, I feel we are a work in progress and will be until one of us passes on! I don't think we will ever be so complacent to think we're done in our relationship, it takes a lot of work and a lot of compromise.

L8YNRED

We love them because we love them. We love them in spite of themselves. That doesn't mean we have to live with them or their disease or the consequences of it if they choose to stay sick. We can love them from somewhere else while allowing them to choose the course of their own lives - as difficult as that can be. I struggle with it all the time - letting go IS love. It is loving them enough to allow them to live their own lives, even if it isn't what we would want for them. They have their own higher power and we are not it. If we love them enough to let go of them then maybe they will connect with their higher power because we are no longer in the way. I still love him. I can't be around him because I can't get well while he is still active, but I still love him and I know God loves him, too. I pray for him every day. But I don't want to be around him. I guess I love me more than I love him and that's ok too.

ASpouse

I understand this .... but my question is why? You seem to have a handle on your love for a man that is mentally incapable of loving you back in the way you deserve.

As I said, I think co-dependents put too much emphasis/importance on love .... sort of like "love should prevent this, should help this" and from my experience anyway, it simply isn't so.

Jazzman

Judy, I had to run out so I couldn't respond earlier, but wanted to. I didn't stay w/ M for long after the drinking was obviously out of control. We were a blended family and I had my own kids I was responsible for. I would be curious to read more responses to your original question because I have struggled with that myself.

Love? I use to think M was the only woman I loved that ever loved me back.
Now I'm thinking I don't know shyte about love.

ASpouse

I think we all have the "fantasized" version of love (what we learn from TV, movies etc) and what loving someone truly means and feels like. I know I sure did and I think co-dependents place far too much "emphasis" on love .... sort of like "love cures all". Then of course there is "tough love" like what Minnie refers to along with a few other posters. Personally for me practicing "tough love" is really hard! It's probably one of the most difficult things I've ever "tried" to do, it really goes against my nature.

I'm still trying to figure out what love in it's purest form is ..... I think seeing a newborn baby & mother/father bonding in those initial first days is love in it's purest form. We are told to "love our fellow man", but it escapes me how to do that exactly! So we are all learning together.

LaTeeDa

As Minnie pointed out earlier, The Road Less Traveled presents an interesting perspective on love. One that I tend to agree with. Basically, it says that "falling in love" isn't really love. Genuine love is the willingness to extend yourself for spiritual growth. (yours or another's) I think that we, as codependents, take this concept too far. We believe that we are extending ourselves for someone else's good, but really we are neglecting ourselves and helping to perpetuate negative behaviors in the other person. I believe our "intention" to love is there, but what we are really seeking is "to be loved." And this can only happen when we truly love ourselves. (see above)



L

ASpouse

Very well put and I totally 1000% agree with you!

StandingStrong

I love my ah because he listens to me. He remembers names of my friends, coworkers, details about my job, etc.
I can talk to him. He doesn't ridicule me for my thoughts, my ideas, etc.
He always made me feel safe when he hugged me. The only other person to have ever made me feel that way was my father.
He knows me for me - has seen me at my worst and at my best - and accepts me for who and how I am.
He doesn't throw past mistakes in my face. (Sadly, I admit I do this to him)
He forgives my mistakes. (Again, I don't always do this for him)

And while you may not want to hear it - I have to add:
That I've known ah since I was in the first grade. So part of the "I knew who he was and who he could be" does play into my love for him. We have a long history together. He's always been a part of my life and I thought he always would be. I still have a hard time now imagining my life with him not in it - though I also have a hard time imagining my life with him in it as well.

Also in a weird twisted way (I maybe shouldn't post this but I'll be honest).....
Though in many ways ah has disrespected me, treated me horribly, been verbally abusive, etc.
There are also ways in which he has respected me, treated me kindly, and complimented me which made me feel good about me. There are even ways in which ah looks up to me with respect (Like, for having my life together when his is not).
While some of it may have been results of what is known as the "honeymoon phase" or "suck up mode" as I call it, some of those were not during those times. I would assume that many from this site may associate that with the Stockholm Syndrome - and that may very well be to a point - but again, we have a history together so it's hard to distinguish them apart.

There is a connection between ah and myself that I've not experienced with anyone else. I've had relationships where a man treated me wonderfully, even better than I deserved in the situation, and that connection was just not there with that person.

Love is an action (In my opinion). Or to put it better - Love is shown through action. This is one of the areas that I have issues with concerning ah. Though he does not drink now, he is not working a program. There are behaviors that he still exhibits that are of the same nature. Dry drunk or personality flaws? I don't know. But at the same time - there is still times where he does show that love through action.
I think that ah and I have a different kind of relationship/situation than many do here.

I do love my husband. I love him for who he is. (And that does include who he was and who he can be) I love him for making me feel comforted as no one else has ever been able too (Even though he hasn't always been there when I needed him to be, the times that he was are the ones I'm talking about). And as sick and twisted as it sounds - there is a part of me that loves him for humbling himself (when I never thought the day would come that I'd see it)

Love is confusing. I question what love really is. I dont have the answers. I'm just trying to explain how I feel.

JessicaNAJ

haha...lol

I dare not answer this question....but once again Judy...You got me thinking.

JessicaNAJ

You know what....I take that back. I just read SS's post and that could have been mine-minus the part about him humbling himself. (I'm not just saying that either). But its pretty bad that I couldn't come up with it on my own.

Pick-a-name

I'm with Jess and SS......very much the same.

ASpouse

That's exactly right Jessica .... it's very hard and hopefully I have managed to get the "love" barrier out of the way for some folks, or at least get them thinking about it.

I found for me in my recovery, I had to remove that very big wall. I had to accept what was with no conditions, no terms, no limit(whether it was love or hate) Then I had to decide over time if I wanted to live with it or not. It's all about choices and all about love.

Personally I think LaTeeDa summed it up perfectly ....... we love our alcoholic spouses so much, to an obsessive degree some of us, because we really don't love ourselves. This is why working on ourselves through a program of some sort, doing for us because we love ourselves is so important. How can we expect someone else to treat us fairly and decently when we can't even treat ourselves that way?

We emulate what we see, an alcoholic spouse is no different in that regard.