Why?

Old 02-14-2006, 11:07 AM
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Judy, that is ace.

I ask the same questions that you do when I read a lot of the posts on here. I don't judge, I am just curious.

Loving the person they were before the drinking started is all well and good, but doesn't really achieve an awful lot if there is no sign of change. It's like bumping into the guy I went out with when I was 16, who I haven't seen in 15 years, and him saying "I love you". That is in no way realistic because I am not that person anymore and no amount of begging, pleading or shouting is going to change that fact. I can never go back, only forward. And neither can any of these partners. If they do get into recovery, they won't be the same person that they were back then.

As I have heard said on these boards - living in the past and in the future just means we are pi$$ing all over today.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:08 AM
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They sound like great boys Patty! You done good.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:08 AM
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that no one says "why" they do and I'd like to know if anyone feels they want to share.
I believe I have shared - frequently, but I must admit the best summary was just after D had lapsed. I wrote this on the 11th of August, life was far from smooth yet my feelings hadn't changed - they were never based on that.

I see you…

I see you, the whole of you with an addiction but not summed up as an addict, no more than blonde, or clever or funny.

I tell you I’m proud of you but you say not yet. You don’t understand my pride isn’t based on tomorrow or some great thing you might or might not achieve. My pride is that I know you, my pride is in your smile, it’s in who you already are. I see you.

You say I’m deranged to see what I see but I’m not alone, friends have never wished I had a different husband, your mother, father and brother’s eyes say the same thing, old Matt and Mac see you too, I’m so proud to be with you in your home place. They see you too.

You’re beautiful, you’re handsome too but handsome doesn’t describe the beauty of a rare human being, beauty isn’t hips or hair, or even your beard, beauty is your heart. You’re beautiful when you care for your dog, you’re beautiful when you open a door and let people pass, you’re beautiful when you share your exquisite mind without arrogance, you’re you and you is beautiful.

You feel the guilt for tears people have shed, never realising they cried mostly because something so beautiful could be lost. You’re irreplaceable, unique like every person, you can’t go and that gap get filled. Life would go on and other gaps would be filled but a human being, THAT human being can’t be replaced. The tears aren’t because you failed, the tears are because we see you – all of you, complete, not just an addict.

I feel proud of myself, seeing you like noticing the colour purple in a field, I might have missed you if I wasn’t looking, I might have summed you up as an addict if I hadn’t looked. I’m proud of myself today, not waiting for you to achieve some future goal, I’m proud I noticed something so rare, I’m proud that I see you, I’m lucky but more than luck – I saw you.

You are loved and rightly so. Look into our hearts and you can’t find a lie, we love you now, we loved you yesterday, we want you here to love tomorrow. Open your eyes my best friend, my lover, my husband.

To SR,
Apologies for the mush. I know I'm not alone - I'm sending this to him but that's 'cos I'm odd and mushy, I know there are many family and friends feel the same way.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:11 AM
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I loved the way she held my hand, I loved the way she kissed my lips, i loved the way she looked into my eyes. I loved the way she cared for my children, I loved the way all the kids in my neighborhood like to be with us.......I loved being married, I loved my family. I made a vow.....

Just hard to let go of that......is she beyond redemption, is this new life what she really wants, or is she just lost.....can't see through the wine.

No answers.....never will be.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:11 AM
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Thanks Judy, they really are. In the scheme of things
my life isn't really that bad when you look at that.
Now had I raised them around my ex I can't say
how things may have turned out. I am greatful....
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:12 AM
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Guy...you are still missing the mark on what Judy was asking.....
maybe you don't have an answer.......
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:14 AM
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Yes Minnie, I agree about living in the past or future LOL.

equus, you are indeed special ....... so you love what you know, what you feel in D's soul in his being. You don't just love the "dressing", you love very deeply and openly. It seems to me you love D because he makes you a better person, in your soul. He touches you is how I'd put it ...... not many people can say that about their marriage ..... but I can :-)
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:14 AM
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pmaslan, my boys dad is all that you described your boys to be! Many do wonder why I ever divorced him, LOL. Only difference is, my boys are young and I don't think they'd make it out of this as your boys did. their dad, although as much a part of their life as he can be, is states away and unable to make a much needed, daily impression.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:21 AM
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This is very difficult to answer .... it requires some soul searching and honesty on the part of the person answering the question. It also may be very "personal" for some folks and of course no one is required to answer. Believe it or not, I won't even argue with anyone (well wahoo ..... it must be a HOLIDAY or something LOL)

There is no right or wrong answer, but I hope that everyone can truly look at love and answer the "why?" about that person in your life. Perhaps it's more than one. But I know that I have recently learned the difference between Love and deeply caring for someone. I'm ashamed to admit how many folks "I've deeply" cared about :-o
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:21 AM
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all the more reason to move out of state sunshine........keep the focus
your kids are depending on you to make the right choice for them.....
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:21 AM
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Wow... how beautiful is that Equus...

I stand in awe
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Cynay
Wow... how beautiful is that Equus...

I stand in awe
Don't be, it was easy to write. I think sometimes people don't realise how we see them and there can be a place for simply saying it!!

Judy you're right, I learn a lot from D - I also have a lot of respect for his courage in his own fight. People do fail but people are not failures, understanding that helped me lots.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:53 AM
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I can find traits that I love about my H. But I think loving something about someone and loving someone are two different things. Agree?

Honest answer? I love my husband, even in the midst of drinking, because I am supposed to.

To be really honest, the day we got married, I did not want to go through with it. Not to the point that I was ready to be the runaway bride, but I had the most unsettled feeling in my gut ever. But I wrote it off as nerves, and the fact that family had flown in from around the nation didn't help either. When we left for our honeymoon, I wasn't the joyous bride. I felt a quiet alarm in me. But as time passed, I got used to my role as his wife. I'm not sure what any of this has to do with anything, but it just kind of "spilled out" of my fingers. I may add more later...this prompts a lot of thoughts.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasGirl
I can find traits that I love about my H. But I think loving something about someone and loving someone are two different things. Agree?

Honest answer? I love my husband, even in the midst of drinking, because I am supposed to.

To be really honest, the day we got married, I did not want to go through with it. Not to the point that I was ready to be the runaway bride, but I had the most unsettled feeling in my gut ever. But I wrote it off as nerves, and the fact that family had flown in from around the nation didn't help either. When we left for our honeymoon, I wasn't the joyous bride. I felt a quiet alarm in me. But as time passed, I got used to my role as his wife. I'm not sure what any of this has to do with anything, but it just kind of "spilled out" of my fingers. I may add more later...this prompts a lot of thoughts.
Yes I would agree ....... I love things/traits/characteristics about a lot of people I know and even a few I don't know.

I don't agree with loving someone (especially a husband) because "you're supposed to" ...... who says so?

I have an older brother and I can honestly say here that I do not love him and I'm supposed to because he's my brother. He is the type of person who does not have a "good heart" and I do not love him. Although my mom and my siblings tell me I'm supposed to, I just don't. However, I do not feel guilty about it or agonize over it. It is what it is.

Yes, this is very thought provoking ..... which is exactly what I wanted it to be.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:06 PM
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I guess then, maybe I don't know! So what does that mean? Does that mean I have no reason to hang on and detachment should be easy?

Maybe I am a fool....
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:11 PM
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Guy, you are no fool ...... you are hurt and men and women view this entire topic on two entirely different levels.

I think as you progress through your recovery, the answer to these types of questions, at least in your mind, will become clearer.

You are seeing the love you hold for your wife as physical things, things you can see, things that cause your memories. As you recover, the memories will become faded and the love you share/had with your wife will take on an entirely different meaning.

It's a tough question to answer and it does require a lot of thought and soul searching.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:22 PM
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You know, there are many different types of love. There's the deep, amazed love that Equus feels for D that is the envy of many of us. There's a love that is fueled by passion (think that really hot man or woman that might not last forever). There's a love that is based in stability (think marrying the not-so-cute guy who you know will provide for you forever). There's a love that is formed in familiarity. We see this historically in arranged marriages. Despite the fact that they never knew each other, they fall in love because they are joined in law, they share a family, they learn each others' nuances, etc. Of course there were arranged marriages where hidden affairs took them away from their spouse too. There's a love that grows and changes over time to be something completely different, stronger or weaker. There's a love that was made with a commitment, originally based on passion or loneliness or whatever, that you don't give up on no matter what happens, even if you don't stay married. And one type of love doesn't fit every couple or every situation.

Sorry...more ramblings...
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasGirl
You know, there are many different types of love. There's the deep, amazed love that Equus feels for D that is the envy of many of us. There's a love that is fueled by passion (think that really hot man or woman that might not last forever). There's a love that is based in stability (think marrying the not-so-cute guy who you know will provide for you forever). There's a love that is formed in familiarity. We see this historically in arranged marriages. Despite the fact that they never knew each other, they fall in love because they are joined in law, they share a family, they learn each others' nuances, etc. Of course there were arranged marriages where hidden affairs took them away from their spouse too. There's a love that grows and changes over time to be something completely different, stronger or weaker. And one type of love doesn't fit every couple or every situation.

Sorry...more ramblings...
........ but TG, that is not the point to the thread. I asked if anyone wanted to share why they "love" their alcoholic significant other or spouse, while living in an abusive or neglectful relationship. It's not a criticism of anyones choices, I would just like to know why? and I've gotten some very good feedback and understanding. Thank you all.

I did not mean to have this turned into a debate about the types of love that are out there. I'm smiling because reading your post above the first thought that popped into my head was "her co-dependency" is showing. Making excuses and trying to "fit" your love for your husband into a category or a compartment, what some therapists might call "compartmentalizing".

For my husband and myself, first it was that deep passionate can't get enough of each other type of love, then it changed yet again, then it was a love based on stability & trust (most recently) and so on and so forth. Love is ever evolving, ever fine tuning itself and forever growing. What I read here is people stuck in that "I love him/her ...... why is he/she ruining what we had". This to me is not a love that is forever evolving and growing ........ it is a love that is stuck in a rut.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ASpouse
I did not mean to have this turned into a debate about the types of love that are out there. I'm smiling because reading your post above the first thought that popped into my head was "her co-dependency" is showing. Making excuses and trying to "fit" your love for your husband into a category or a compartment, what some therapists might call "compartmentalizing".
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:47 PM
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No need to blush, I've been guilty of that many many many many times myself! I understand your thought process and completely understand what you are saying and trying to get across to everyone.

You know TG, my best friend married a jerk about 20 years ago. For months before her wedding she said she didn't want to do it. I begged her not to (he was a jerk too), but she went ahead and did it anyway. She is divorced now and remarried (not sure how happy she is) her ex was an alcoholic/addict ....... this guy is also an alcoholic I think.

She always told me she should have followed her instinct those many years ago .....
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