trailmix

I'm really glad to hear that, this is a great thing to decide, that you don't want to ever allow someone to treat you with anything less than respect and kindness. Yes, sometimes we argue with people or disagree, but still, it doesn't need to be abusive. There is a line. That is a boundary.

Imagine if you were in a relationship with someone who wasn't combative, who appreciated that you were sensitive and sensitive to them. Who enjoyed doing things other than getting drunk, who wasn't sneaky or dishonest, who understood themselves well and got to know you well.

To live with an addict (that truly isn't interested in quitting) you have two choices unless you want to drive yourself (and them) bonkers. Accept the drinking/drugging, or leave. That's about it.

Beachn

Well EZ see you trying hard to manage the conflict between accepting the cold hard facts and wanting to keep your head in the sand of wishful thinking. After all romanticizing a drunk takes effort, lies and lots of denial about things. Mostly self.

You cannot change the situation by thinking about it, talking about it, wondering about it. Why why why will drive you nuts. Trust me on this one. You’ll never understand and you don’t need to.

There is nothing to do but accept.

Sucks to high heaven but that’s the facts. I know how disorienting it can be, and how far one will go to not deal with the elephant in the room. However, once you truly accept you are powerless over her, alcohol, and pretty much everything else, is the beginning of the end of your pain. At least it was for me.

As an important aside.. brother you are not a victim. Not even a little. You could have checked out at any time yet you stayed and endured because you were getting something out of it. Which means you’re not a martyr either.

There is nothing noble about sacrificing yourself on the altar of alcoholism and codependency. “I gave her so much and look what she did to me” is typical nice guy mentality when the wheels fall off. I know because I was there and it takes one to know one.

There’s a book called “No More Mr. Nice guy”that I suggest you read. It will help YOU understand yourself better, which is far far more important right now than trying to understand why an alcoholic does what alcoholics do. The former will change your life, the latter will keep you trapped.

Unless of course you’re enjoying wallowing in your misery. Then by all means keep it up.

Indisposed

That's why in my gut I never wanted to move in with her, or entertain having kids while the addiction was going on because I knew at the snap of the finger that something bad could happen, and it would be destructive to me.

There were multiple times in our relationship where I said to myself and her - "I feel like I'm battling the addiction" because it involved me so much, both in negative abuse ways and the reliance on me to be a "distraction" when she craved. She never really tried to get help until this summer, even though it wasn't something she fully wanted (and still probably doesn't).

Indisposed

I get what you're saying. The last thing I'm trying to do is come off like a victim in the whole ordeal. I do understand that no matter what - I could've checked out multiple times and refused to do so because I blamed the mental illness and addiction and thought things would get better with treatment.

I also realize I had no control over the situation, no matter how good my intentions were. It's a harsh reality, but something I need to realize that I was in denial because still to this day I thought I knew her better than I did.

What did you mean that I "was getting something out of it" when you mentioned I could've checked out at any time? Just curious.

trailmix

Yes you were battling the addiction and that was never your fight. You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it. If you could will or love addiction away, there wouldn't be very many addicts around and this forum would be a ghost town.

Really "more" destructive - it was already destructive.

But what did happen, happened. Nothing you can say or do will change that, it's historical fact now.

When we talk about focusing back on yourself, that's really to help you, so you will feel less hopeless and unhappy. Not that you don't have some grieving to go through, you do and you are and it could take months (or not everyone is different). There will be a moment or moments when you do accept she is who she is and those kinds of moments might be a bit scary but also freeing.

We talk about FOG here, Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

Accepting she is who she is and she did what she did is scary.

I'm sure you have seen talk around the forum of Trauma bonding, that's something you might want to look at. You mention there were good times, which you haven't talked about here. Thing is, we all know about that. Very few go in to a relationship like that when it's all bad, there have to be highlights and alcoholics are just people - they can have great attributes, they can be very nice people, in general, just like everyone else. Doesn't mean the alcoholism (which is progressive) won't diminish all of that.

advbike

It can happen with non-alcoholics too. My last GF was just kinda crazy - super intense, aggressive, sexy, loud, thrill-seeking.. She used no drugs and didn't drink, yet I experienced all sorts of trauma and codependency from her behavior. I need to look into trauma bonding apparently. One more dysfunctional relationship dynamic on my plate, lol.

Indisposed

I'll be honest - I just never really knew that alcoholics were so selfish. It makes sense, but the addiction is what I always blamed.

I know MY recovery is going to be a walk, not a sprint. As much as I still worry about her well being, I have to remind myself that it's out of my hands, and to focus on myself now. That is going to be very difficult for me because I've always put others first in my life. Whether it was with her, family, or even work - I always tried to help others before I helped myself. I'm a very prideful person, and don't want to come off weak in admitting I need help.

Even going through this - I feel like talking with those around me about the situation is bothering them, and I should be able to handle this myself. I know that's my anxiety speaking, but it still eats at me.

I'm just very thankful I found this forum, and have people who can understand what I'm going through. Even last night, my sister said "it's been 2 weeks, you should be getting a little better by now." It was so upsetting to hear that - she has NO idea what it's like to deal with an addict. It's not as black and white as someone cheating on you, like she likes to think it is.

Beachn

EZ,

To one degree or another the relationship filled certain needs. I have no idea what yours were but it’s obvious due to your distress it was significant.

When I started working on myself it became very clear what mine were. An example is I was sober, she wasn’t. This filled my need to be a good/better father than a drunk. It fed my ego. Sick crap like that I wasn’t consciously aware of. And there were many like that.

We know you’re in pain but you have to stop making it about her. Your choices are what led you here, not hers. Get that? Your choices.

That’s something you can fix.

trailmix

I wouldn't worry about her (personally), she has a team of people supporting her right now. She had these issues before she met you, while you were with her and she has them now and she gets along just fine. It's also not helping you (or her for that matter).

It's not a good idea to always put everyone else first, in fact it's damaging. If you are looking out for them and they are looking out for them, who's looking after you?

Never set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.

Whenever someone is telling us how we should feel - you can generally ignore it. We feel what we feel. We can help ourselves feel better (or worse), but no one gets to judge really. When someone else pipes up with something like that it might be genuine like, wow you should feel happy about that promotion! That's harmless chit chat. Otherwise what they are telling you is this is how I WANT you to feel. For them, not for you (necessarily).

I just heard someone on TV say "rehab is for people who want it, not people who need it", which has nothing to do with this conversation but I think it's a good way to look at it.

Indisposed

I know I need to concentrate on myself, and will try my best. All I know is that this has severely damaged me, and I'm going to have trouble letting anyone else in for a really long time (relationship or friendship). The only person I can trust is myself, and that is a very tough pill to swallow.

Thanks for continuing to reply, and give perspective. I appreciate it more than you'll ever know.

Cyranoak

As Yoda said, we do, or we do not. Please do Alanon a few times-- just to see how it feels. She is swinging the axe, but you are the one that keeps putting your neck on the chopping block, over and over again, voluntarily. Alanon will help you with this.

Indisposed

Yeah, I know I can blame myself for continuing to put up with it. I blamed the addiction and mental illness, but like others have said, have to take a deep look at myself for why I continued to put myself in that situation. Thank you for reaching out as well.

Bekindalways

Heya EZ, so so glad you didn't let her move in with you or worse, have children with her. Whatever mistakes you made along the way, you did this one right thing. Give yourself credit for this.

Like Beachn, I have found there is a certain arrogance/pride in my codependency. On some level I want to think I am better than others and if I am with really messed up people, I get to feel a bit superior. This certainly wasn't front and center but below the surface in my psyche. I still struggle with this but work for more humility in myself.

Many people have horrific problems like your Ex. I have no experience with dealing with being Bipolar and alcoholic. I am no more qualified to advise people in such things than I am to do heart surgery. These people need professionals and/or people like themselves who struggle with this. My qualifier was from an alcoholic family and had a fair amount of trauma. Trying to "help" him was really insulting. He was/is a smart person who needed to figure his life out on his own. Having someone along to act out a disrespect for his abilities was, on my part, inappropriate to the extreme.

What you said about helping others first and putting other before yourself sounds good; however for codependents this is the heart of our addiction/toxic-nature. Too many times this "helping" is really having bad boundaries and not staying on your side of the street. A rule of thumb is to never do something for someone that they can do for themselves.

It may have only been two weeks EZ but you are putting in some good work. Keep it up. Unfortunately, contrary to your sister's opinion, this takes a lot longer than two weeks for most of us true codependents.

Indisposed

Thank you for everything you just said, and I am really proud of myself for making it this far without caving in and trying to contact her. I'm still struggling to to find the reasons why I stuck with her so long besides obviously loving her and hoping for the potential we could have if she was sober.

I do know that I was scared of letting her go at times because I didn't want to be like everyone else in her life and think she was a lost cause. There were times where I felt like if I left, she would go WAY over the edge and hurt herself because of her addiction and mental illness. There were multiple times where she said she had suicidal thoughts, and I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if I was part of the reason she took her own life.

I learned the three C's though, and have to keep telling myself that.

dandylion

Ez........specifically, about your sister. I am the older of two sisters. In the "older sister" role, I was, naturally, protective of them, and they frequently came to me for support and to help them out when they got into scrapes, etc.
When we became adults, they were surprised when they discovered that I was not all powerful, and, sometimes had needs for support and help, myself. In fact, they seemed shocked and disappointed in me, and even critical! I felt hurt about their lack of reciprocity.
That was my first learnig that, many people who are used to being in the recieving end of a relationship, resent it when they are asked for help.

In a similar vein, my parents always talked to me when they were "worried" about my sisters. Once, I asked them if they ever worried about me---and they said "Oh, no. We don't have to because you are a survivor type...we know that you will always be o.k"..

I remember reading, in "Co-dependent No More"., I believe----about the fact that "The rescuer will, inevitably, become the victim-----IF we rescue a victim from something that they CAN and should be doing for themselves. Because, they will over-rely on you and will blame you whenever things go wrong. Eventually, we grow tired of this and start to feel resentful and put upon. Thus we have gone from rescuer to victim, ourselves.

I think that many men feel the same way---that expressing the need for help makes them appear to be "weak". I blame this on the way our culture raises and reain our male children. They are often taught to just "sck it up" and deny their painful emotiions. Men "should always have all the answers and be exclusively problem solvers.
I think this is a crime!! ...

Indisposed

As a man, I'm guilty of thinking that way too. A lot of the time in my relationship, my problems got ignored because I always said, "I got this". Her issues were always bigger than mine I thought, and looking back it's a horrible way to look at things.

Both halves of the relationship are entitled to have personal problems, and both are equally as imporant. I think I always made her problems seem more important than mine, because they seemed bigger and more threatening. I'm guilty of trying to play hero, and be her knight in shining armor.

The three C's is something I wish I learned a long time ago.

Bekindalways

Well said here Dandy. I hate the way our culture subtly pushes men into this impossible position. It has taken me a long time to get a glimmer (I'm sure I will never completely understand) of some of the suffering that is particular to men.

EZ, there is a book Codependent No More that is a bit of a bible around here; however I hesitate to recommend it to men as the author is a woman. You, and the other guys here on Friends and Family. can no doubt get something out of it but I wish a man would write about overcoming codependency. There must be some elements of being in a relationship with an addict that are specific for men .

Indisposed

I always knew we were codependent on eachother, but it wasn't until all this happened that I realized how that is a bad thing. It might be normal to be codependent to a degree, but my relationship there was way too much of it.

I know realize that you shouldn't rely on one person to make you happy. Should your partner add to your happiness? Of course. But they shouldn't be the only avenue of happiness. Live and learn, I guess.

dandylion

There are soo many definitions of co-dependency around...but, the one that I like the best is this one-------"Co-dependency is not as much about the relationship to another as it is about the lack of relationship with one's self"

Indisposed

Yeah, that's a great way to describe it to me. I understand why she was and still is codependent on others because of her mental illness.

I lacked self respect and self love, which is why I probably became codependent on her because I did feel special to her at points of our relationship. It wasn't until I was cheated on and the trust went out the window where it became really bad codependency wise.