My Awakening - Very sudden today!
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I have often found there is a lot information to be gleaned when I stop listening to what someone is saying and solely pay attention to what they are/have been doing. Actions, not words, will tell you the truth of who someone is.
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I just found a receipt for the LCBO for a mickey of smirnoff dated yesterday at 5:31pm!! An hour before our big talk and his big apology and promises!!!! So there you go - you guys were right! Now I need to find the new hiding spot and build up a case quietly.
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Steph......what is this going to prove? He knows that he is drinking (and hiding it). You know that he is drinking (and hiding it). It is known by both of you.
Your therapist has told you to feel free to ignore your parents' denial.
Finding the stash or not finding the stash doesn't change anything. It just drives you Krazy.
Your therapist has told you to feel free to ignore your parents' denial.
Finding the stash or not finding the stash doesn't change anything. It just drives you Krazy.
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Originally Posted by StephEgan 
I just found a receipt for the LCBO for a mickey of smirnoff dated yesterday at 5:31pm!! An hour before our big talk and his big apology and promises!!!! So there you go - you guys were right! Now I need to find the new hiding spot and build up a case quietly.
As Dandylion says, this will just drive you crazy. You need to step away. Please, look after your own mental health.
Take care.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Steph......what is this going to prove? He knows that he is drinking (and hiding it). You know that he is drinking (and hiding it). It is known by both of you.
Your therapist has told you to feel free to ignore your parents' denial.
Finding the stash or not finding the stash doesn't change anything. It just drives you Krazy.
Your therapist has told you to feel free to ignore your parents' denial.
Finding the stash or not finding the stash doesn't change anything. It just drives you Krazy.
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He went on and on and on to me last night - he even said I could have the bank cards so he wouldn't have any money to buy booze?! I said I'm not going to be your booze police - I'll see what the lawyer recommends to do to build the best case possible. They do give custody to boozers in Ontario and that is my worry.
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I would think the receipt would be enough but I haven't been in your situation. Checking with the lawyer is a good idea. I had to detach from my AH's drinking at a certain point because it was driving me crazy. I knew I wasn't going to be able to control it so trying to monitor it was futile and it did nothing but get me worked up. He wasn't concerned in the least. I just don't want you to go through what I did, it did affect my health and that was my reason for leaving ultimately. You need to stay healthy for your precious daughter, she needs you more than ever. The ongoing stress of living with an alcoholic will take its toll, one way or another.
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Thanksladies. I'm just struggling to understand what the magnitude of theproblem is at this point. I think it is going to take a while for me to figure out what I think about it all. The fact he spoke with such feeling saying he would not drink vodka in secret anymore, only 1 hour after he had purchased a small bottle of it is upsetting and confusing. The hiding of booze is weird if it is such a small volume - 12 ounces? I guess he did that thining it would be his last yet again. He isn't drunk today that's for sure - he's been outside keeping busy building a fire pit and installing a new hot water tank with my dad. No matter the quantity, the lies are awful andthe idea that this may be the health issue is really bad but then I have no idea if it is or not. The unknown about this situation is driving me insane!
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Steph.....I am a medical professional and have worked with alcoholics for many years, in my career. I have supervised the detox of hundreds of alcoholics. From what you have shared, it sounds like he has spiraled pretty far along into his addiction.
I don't think that you can apply YOUR logic to his recent actions and draw conclusions. Such things as his intense feeling when speaking....the amount of the booze....that he may seem sober for one day.....Alcoholics do not behave in any logical way when they are drunk or when they are in a short period of not being intoxicated. Even so, he iwill be fighting the oncoming withdrawl symptoms, inside of himself.
****I suggest a word of warning, here, for you. Within hours the withdrawl symptoms will begin---even if you can't see any outward signs. They are extremely--extremly uncomfortable. They will get so bad that a person will do just about anything to get a drink. If they can't get a drink---they could well go into some very serious withdrawl symptoms---even deleroum tremens. The discomfort and the dangers become vvery high. You, as a non alcoholc cannot be able to appreciate how horrible this is for the alcoholic.******
I, as someonw who is experienced with alcoholics in withdrawl would never---never--want an alcoholic to go "cold turkey" around me. (cold turkey means to abrupt ly stop drinking). I would not want anyone to have a withdrawl siezure or blatant deleroum tremens on my watch. I qould want them in a medical facility for a managed and humane detox---or, just allow them to continue drinking until they could be safely detoxed by a doctor or in a suitable facility.
My suggestion would be to leave the man alone, at this point. Stop checking for his bottles. And, keep on making the plans for YOUR own welfare and that of your daughters. You have your therapist to lean on. It is going to take a medical professional and a mental health professional to evaluate your husband for the kind of answers that you are seeking. If he doesn't want to co-operate with such evaluations---you may just have to step back and leave the man alone, You can only force him to do so much. You can lead a horse to water and even put salt in it's oats---but, that is about as much as anyone can do.
Steph----I am giving you my impressions from what you have shared. They are suggestions. I hope you will take this post in that vein.
I don't think that you can apply YOUR logic to his recent actions and draw conclusions. Such things as his intense feeling when speaking....the amount of the booze....that he may seem sober for one day.....Alcoholics do not behave in any logical way when they are drunk or when they are in a short period of not being intoxicated. Even so, he iwill be fighting the oncoming withdrawl symptoms, inside of himself.
****I suggest a word of warning, here, for you. Within hours the withdrawl symptoms will begin---even if you can't see any outward signs. They are extremely--extremly uncomfortable. They will get so bad that a person will do just about anything to get a drink. If they can't get a drink---they could well go into some very serious withdrawl symptoms---even deleroum tremens. The discomfort and the dangers become vvery high. You, as a non alcoholc cannot be able to appreciate how horrible this is for the alcoholic.******
I, as someonw who is experienced with alcoholics in withdrawl would never---never--want an alcoholic to go "cold turkey" around me. (cold turkey means to abrupt ly stop drinking). I would not want anyone to have a withdrawl siezure or blatant deleroum tremens on my watch. I qould want them in a medical facility for a managed and humane detox---or, just allow them to continue drinking until they could be safely detoxed by a doctor or in a suitable facility.
My suggestion would be to leave the man alone, at this point. Stop checking for his bottles. And, keep on making the plans for YOUR own welfare and that of your daughters. You have your therapist to lean on. It is going to take a medical professional and a mental health professional to evaluate your husband for the kind of answers that you are seeking. If he doesn't want to co-operate with such evaluations---you may just have to step back and leave the man alone, You can only force him to do so much. You can lead a horse to water and even put salt in it's oats---but, that is about as much as anyone can do.
Steph----I am giving you my impressions from what you have shared. They are suggestions. I hope you will take this post in that vein.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Steph.....I am a medical professional and have worked with alcoholics for many years, in my career. I have supervised the detox of hundreds of alcoholics. From what you have shared, it sounds like he has spiraled pretty far along into his addiction.
I don't think that you can apply YOUR logic to his recent actions and draw conclusions. Such things as his intense feeling when speaking....the amount of the booze....that he may seem sober for one day.....Alcoholics do not behave in any logical way when they are drunk or when they are in a short period of not being intoxicated. Even so, he iwill be fighting the oncoming withdrawl symptoms, inside of himself.
****I suggest a word of warning, here, for you. Within hours the withdrawl symptoms will begin---even if you can't see any outward signs. They are extremely--extremly uncomfortable. They will get so bad that a person will do just about anything to get a drink. If they can't get a drink---they could well go into some very serious withdrawl symptoms---even deleroum tremens. The discomfort and the dangers become vvery high. You, as a non alcoholc cannot be able to appreciate how horrible this is for the alcoholic.******
I, as someonw who is experienced with alcoholics in withdrawl would never---never--want an alcoholic to go "cold turkey" around me. (cold turkey means to abrupt ly stop drinking). I would not want anyone to have a withdrawl siezure or blatant deleroum tremens on my watch. I qould want them in a medical facility for a managed and humane detox---or, just allow them to continue drinking until they could be safely detoxed by a doctor or in a suitable facility.
My suggestion would be to leave the man alone, at this point. Stop checking for his bottles. And, keep on making the plans for YOUR own welfare and that of your daughters. You have your therapist to lean on. It is going to take a medical professional and a mental health professional to evaluate your husband for the kind of answers that you are seeking. If he doesn't want to co-operate with such evaluations---you may just have to step back and leave the man alone, You can only force him to do so much. You can lead a horse to water and even put salt in it's oats---but, that is about as much as anyone can do.
Steph----I am giving you my impressions from what you have shared. They are suggestions. I hope you will take this post in that vein.
I don't think that you can apply YOUR logic to his recent actions and draw conclusions. Such things as his intense feeling when speaking....the amount of the booze....that he may seem sober for one day.....Alcoholics do not behave in any logical way when they are drunk or when they are in a short period of not being intoxicated. Even so, he iwill be fighting the oncoming withdrawl symptoms, inside of himself.
****I suggest a word of warning, here, for you. Within hours the withdrawl symptoms will begin---even if you can't see any outward signs. They are extremely--extremly uncomfortable. They will get so bad that a person will do just about anything to get a drink. If they can't get a drink---they could well go into some very serious withdrawl symptoms---even deleroum tremens. The discomfort and the dangers become vvery high. You, as a non alcoholc cannot be able to appreciate how horrible this is for the alcoholic.******
I, as someonw who is experienced with alcoholics in withdrawl would never---never--want an alcoholic to go "cold turkey" around me. (cold turkey means to abrupt ly stop drinking). I would not want anyone to have a withdrawl siezure or blatant deleroum tremens on my watch. I qould want them in a medical facility for a managed and humane detox---or, just allow them to continue drinking until they could be safely detoxed by a doctor or in a suitable facility.
My suggestion would be to leave the man alone, at this point. Stop checking for his bottles. And, keep on making the plans for YOUR own welfare and that of your daughters. You have your therapist to lean on. It is going to take a medical professional and a mental health professional to evaluate your husband for the kind of answers that you are seeking. If he doesn't want to co-operate with such evaluations---you may just have to step back and leave the man alone, You can only force him to do so much. You can lead a horse to water and even put salt in it's oats---but, that is about as much as anyone can do.
Steph----I am giving you my impressions from what you have shared. They are suggestions. I hope you will take this post in that vein.
He has had many flareups of what I thought was this illness which were significant illness - lasted 3-4 days and were always preluded by him in a TERRIBLE grumpy mood for a day then this would hit him in the night and he would be bedbound for 3-4 days with the nausea dizziness significant tremor in his hands and face vomiting diarrhea unable to eat for a few days. It would happen every 2-3 wks for quite a while but has not happened in like 5 months now so I guess he has been keeping his intake at enough to not go into that withdrawal. I think he bought that vodka to use "just a little bit" in his head as a way to stop - a final bottle so it was a tiny one.
I'm trying to understand all of this, and won't be stopping doing that until I decide what I think is going on. This is my life and the life of my child's and I need to do the right thing here. I'm not bothering him at all - he has no idea that I'm being a detective in my brain right now - around him I'm behaving perfectly normally while I observe and post here trying to figure this all out. I don't think it's straight forward?
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I hear you. I think the thing is, what are you trying to see? If there is hope for this relationship? If he's really an alcoholic? Both those things? When is enough data enough?
Only he can decide if he is an alcoholic, you can observe it, make your own decisions, of course. From the outside, honestly, there isn't a question. People who post here, generally, have years of experience with alcoholics. Nothing you have said so far, to me, has been out of character for a classic alcoholic. From the anger, the withdrawal and holding on to a bottle of vodka while professing "trying" and "what have I done". And the lying about it all.
He may well try to quit on his own, millions have tried, his words may even be true to him in the moment, but it doesn't usually work out that way. Really hard to tell with him so firmly in denial.
Also, I don't think anyone is worried about him being annoyed by your detective work, concern is for you. You can handle this, that's not in question at all, but no one likes to see someone suffer and everyone knows how hard this is for you.
Only he can decide if he is an alcoholic, you can observe it, make your own decisions, of course. From the outside, honestly, there isn't a question. People who post here, generally, have years of experience with alcoholics. Nothing you have said so far, to me, has been out of character for a classic alcoholic. From the anger, the withdrawal and holding on to a bottle of vodka while professing "trying" and "what have I done". And the lying about it all.
He may well try to quit on his own, millions have tried, his words may even be true to him in the moment, but it doesn't usually work out that way. Really hard to tell with him so firmly in denial.
Also, I don't think anyone is worried about him being annoyed by your detective work, concern is for you. You can handle this, that's not in question at all, but no one likes to see someone suffer and everyone knows how hard this is for you.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I hear you. I think the thing is, what are you trying to see? If there is hope for this relationship? If he's really an alcoholic? Both those things? When is enough data enough?
Only he can decide if he is an alcoholic, you can observe it, make your own decisions, of course. From the outside, honestly, there isn't a question. People who post here, generally, have years of experience with alcoholics. Nothing you have said so far, to me, has been out of character for a classic alcoholic. From the anger, the withdrawal and holding on to a bottle of vodka while professing "trying" and "what have I done". And the lying about it all.
He may well try to quit on his own, millions have tried, his words may even be true to him in the moment, but it doesn't usually work out that way. Really hard to tell with him so firmly in denial.
Also, I don't think anyone is worried about him being annoyed by your detective work, concern is for you. You can handle this, that's not in question at all, but no one likes to see someone suffer and everyone knows how hard this is for you.
Only he can decide if he is an alcoholic, you can observe it, make your own decisions, of course. From the outside, honestly, there isn't a question. People who post here, generally, have years of experience with alcoholics. Nothing you have said so far, to me, has been out of character for a classic alcoholic. From the anger, the withdrawal and holding on to a bottle of vodka while professing "trying" and "what have I done". And the lying about it all.
He may well try to quit on his own, millions have tried, his words may even be true to him in the moment, but it doesn't usually work out that way. Really hard to tell with him so firmly in denial.
Also, I don't think anyone is worried about him being annoyed by your detective work, concern is for you. You can handle this, that's not in question at all, but no one likes to see someone suffer and everyone knows how hard this is for you.
Thank you for your kind words. I worry for my daughter who is so fragile
But I' m starting to think she has a "trauma bond"with him - I will speak to the therapist about this more. I'm also worried he could get partial custody and hope the lawyer will help with that tomorrow. This is all so confusing and I think I'm suffering from cognitive dissonance trying to understand how he can be so nice and loving but also be an abuser and whether he realises he is doing this or not.
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He also claims to have a high tolerance and needs more than the rest of us to keep up pace...
An alcoholic acquires a high tolerance from drinking a lot over a long period of time. That he doesn't look or act drunk doesn't mean he isn't drinking - for precisely the reason he stated. He has to drink constantly to keep from having tremors or seizures from withdrawal. An alcoholic can probably drink several drinks without looking or acting drunk at all. It will take far more alcohol than normal for an addict to act drunk.
Some years ago, a young man showing off for his friends while drunk decided to impress them by doing cartwheels...and ended up going off the end of an unfinished bridge. He died. His blood alcohol was high, like over .25. If a normal person had that high a BAC they'd probably have passed out. He was accustomed to drinking that much, which was why he was still trying to do acrobatics at midnight.
An alcoholic acquires a high tolerance from drinking a lot over a long period of time. That he doesn't look or act drunk doesn't mean he isn't drinking - for precisely the reason he stated. He has to drink constantly to keep from having tremors or seizures from withdrawal. An alcoholic can probably drink several drinks without looking or acting drunk at all. It will take far more alcohol than normal for an addict to act drunk.
Some years ago, a young man showing off for his friends while drunk decided to impress them by doing cartwheels...and ended up going off the end of an unfinished bridge. He died. His blood alcohol was high, like over .25. If a normal person had that high a BAC they'd probably have passed out. He was accustomed to drinking that much, which was why he was still trying to do acrobatics at midnight.
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Well my husband was out golfing today - I got a call an hour ago that he had crashed his car. Of course since the revelation of information over the past week, I thought he was drunk. The OPP came and breathalised him - "blew well under" - so out on the golf course all day and had 1 beer ... see I think I've cracked it then I find out I'm wrong. Rear wheel drive on new tarmac and the tires just spun him around apparently. This is all very confusing I don't know what to think or believe but I know he wasn't driving drunk after golfing all day now.
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It's entirely possible he doesn't drive drunk or is careful about how much he drinks, only 1 or 2 before driving. If he was gone several hours he might have had a drink every hour and still managed to be under the limit. Sorry that happened though!
Then again I wouldn't believe it until I saw the police report at this point.
Then again I wouldn't believe it until I saw the police report at this point.
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Originally Posted by StephEgan
Thank you for your message Dandylion. I've been thinking back, and there is no way he is frequently drunk. He may be going out there to take a few sips to get to sleep (he seems to htink it helps his insomnia) or having a glug when he loses his temper thinking it will calm him down, then the odd time geting hammered basically. He isn't hammered every day that's for sure! He isn't going into withdrawal because he is still drinking - because he doesn't get drunk on that vodka every day, he thinks he can now just drink like a "normal" person and as it is the weekend, we are all having drinks. He had quite a lot to drink last night - openly more than usual and didn't seem drunk so I guess his tolerance is high from his intake.
He has had many flareups of what I thought was this illness which were significant illness - lasted 3-4 days and were always preluded by him in a TERRIBLE grumpy mood for a day then this would hit him in the night and he would be bedbound for 3-4 days with the nausea dizziness significant tremor in his hands and face vomiting diarrhea unable to eat for a few days. It would happen every 2-3 wks for quite a while but has not happened in like 5 months now so I guess he has been keeping his intake at enough to not go into that withdrawal. I think he bought that vodka to use "just a little bit" in his head as a way to stop - a final bottle so it was a tiny one.
I'm trying to understand all of this, and won't be stopping doing that until I decide what I think is going on. This is my life and the life of my child's and I need to do the right thing here. I'm not bothering him at all - he has no idea that I'm being a detective in my brain right now - around him I'm behaving perfectly normally while I observe and post here trying to figure this all out. I don't think it's straight forward?
He has had many flareups of what I thought was this illness which were significant illness - lasted 3-4 days and were always preluded by him in a TERRIBLE grumpy mood for a day then this would hit him in the night and he would be bedbound for 3-4 days with the nausea dizziness significant tremor in his hands and face vomiting diarrhea unable to eat for a few days. It would happen every 2-3 wks for quite a while but has not happened in like 5 months now so I guess he has been keeping his intake at enough to not go into that withdrawal. I think he bought that vodka to use "just a little bit" in his head as a way to stop - a final bottle so it was a tiny one.
I'm trying to understand all of this, and won't be stopping doing that until I decide what I think is going on. This is my life and the life of my child's and I need to do the right thing here. I'm not bothering him at all - he has no idea that I'm being a detective in my brain right now - around him I'm behaving perfectly normally while I observe and post here trying to figure this all out. I don't think it's straight forward?
hi there. I don’t post much because point, eight months after the death of my AXH my life isn’t controlled by alcohol or an alcoholic. I just wanted to tell you, your story sounds very familiar, I didn’t start posting until after I left my ex-husband but let me tell you I heard every single line you have heard. He is an addict. He drinks more than even now you can imagine. The symptoms are describing aren’t just symptoms of withdrawal, they are also potentially symptoms of liver failure. You are describing multiple days of episodes that I guess could be consistent with withdrawal, I didn’t see much of that because my ex was always drinking, which I didn’t find out until after the fact, but also can be consistent with very advanced liver disease.
The fact he doesn’t seem like he’s been drunk every day of his life doesn’t mean he hasn’t been. Eventually my ex admitted that he was drinking constantly, for years, he didn’t seem hammered to me all the time, but that’s only because he drank so much it wasn’t obvious. he seemed like a normal person when he’d blow a .20. I promise you did not find the only cache of bottles.
I know the promises and the lies are destabilizing. I’m sure he seems very sincere when he tells you he’s going to get better, and it’s not that bad, and you just happen to find the only stash of bottles, and he’s admitting the things that you have proven you know about, and exactly nothing else. And if you happen to have proof of one more thing, he would admit to that, and deny everything else.
Be strong, I know how hard it is to parent while you are dealing with this, but you and your daughter will be better for facing it head on. Feel free to send me a message if you want to, but I would recommend searching my name and reading my threads and I will tell you that everything you have said, I could have said, and three years later mine was dead, and every worst case thought I ever had about what he was doing or how bad things were, all of it was confirmed by a third-party after he died.
Of course yours could be the unicorn where all these arrows are pointing in one direction and reality is something else, but your gut is not wrong here. The doubts are normal, even with someone who treats you like garbage. It just means you’re human and you are married. But your instincts are guiding you true here. Even if he wasn’t an addict, he’s awful to you and your sick child. You deserve better than that. When he tries to spin some tale about how he’s not an addict, does it really even matter if he’s awful to you? You deserve better. I don’t even know you and I know that.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
If he was gone several hours he might have had a drink every hour and still managed to be under the limit...Then again I wouldn't believe it until I saw the police report at this point.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
It's entirely possible he doesn't drive drunk or is careful about how much he drinks, only 1 or 2 before driving. If he was gone several hours he might have had a drink every hour and still managed to be under the limit. Sorry that happened though!
Then again I wouldn't believe it until I saw the police report at this point.
Then again I wouldn't believe it until I saw the police report at this point.
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