StephEgan

So a little update - husband has messaged:

"I heard back from your therapist on Wednesday. He can't take me but directed me to a website that you filter by specialty area etc. He also suggested a technique he thinks sounds suitable which sounded interesting. I looked at the website last night but didn't contact anyone. I'll do it tonight though. I will also make an appointment to try the CPAP machine again"

trailmix

Oh well, hmm. There are AA meetings every day and evening of the week, but let's take this slow lol.

Now is a really good time to start focusing back on yourself perhaps, never hurts to keep learning about addiction (for you, not for him) but you can't help him and you can't really know how he thinks about any of this either. Is he serious? Time will tell but I wouldn't hold out for it.

You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it.

He is pretty much on his own now, he will either do this or he won't, that's his path. A lot of focus in your life has been him and all his troubles. Now focus is on his alcoholism. That's not really your life though and it can be incredibly stressful for you.

While you can't go camping this weekend, maybe there are other adventures you and your little one can do together? Even shopping (if that's something you like) or a manicure or a movie? Whatever would make you two happy.

StephEgan

Well yes I agree - I responded to him and asked what specialty of therapy he is searching for and asked him "what exactly do you think your issue is that you are seeking help for?". I'll be interested to see his response - no response yet. Unless he says it's for the booze, then obviously he hasn't understood what's wrong yet. He is going to be in for a shock when he sees the cost of a therpist as well and he'll never pay for it!

I have a consult with a lawyer to the tune of $750 on Monday to get things rolling in case he doesn't make any proper changes. I'm sort of playing both sides right now and preparing for either outcome, but deep down, I don't think he'll be able to recover from this and even if he claims he isn't drinking, I won't be able to believe him. He needs to do this for himself and his child, not for me.

My daughter has had a rough week - her mental health is fragile with her Dysautonomia/POTS. She was having adrenaline dumps today and really bad headaches so I'm in her room comforting her and trying to cheer her up. I feel like there's nothing left for ME anymore. Going out isn't enjoyable here now with covid, masks, vaccine passports coming etc but we can do stuff in the house and likely her BFF will come here or she will go to her BFF which would be good for her to get out of the house as she is doing virtual school each am. Life is really very hard to be honest.

trailmix

Yes, that's a lot of care you are giving. Of course your Daughter is your priority and that's normal. You very much don't need someone else to look after! If you think of whatever he is getting up to as his side of the street and everything for you and your Daughter as your side of the street, that's a good way to try to separate yourself emotionally from all his struggles.

The money for the lawyer on Monday will probably be well spent, to answer your questions and start to make a plan, when you are ready.

StephEgan

Well nice groveling husband is here and seems very genuine. I'msure you've all experienced that and I know you have warned me about it. Time will tell I guess.

StephEgan

I guess this is typical for everyone but my husband and I just had a big talk. He is adamant that the drinknig isn't as bad as I think it is - that it took since May for those bottles to build up. Now I know - denial - but sometimes can they not be telling the truth? I told him he has been emotionally abusing my daughter and I for years and he was shocked at his behaviour - this is the first time he has ever admitted that he has been being this verbally abusive and genuinely seems utterly ashamed of himself.
The sleep **** he hsa has been going on since he was a child - the sleep walking and talking so is it not possible that it is a sleep issue?? Has been happening since young childhood now....
He is utterly anal about drinking and driving and won't even have 1 beer then drive - he has been like this since we met 17 yrs ago - so I do not believe he would do that. He is adamant that some of the stories I'm talking about how he looked drunk when he wasn't, that he was not drunk. He has admitted in a few stories that yes he was drunk and others says absolutely he was not drunk and isn't understanding what I'm talking about at all when I describe these stories.
I guess only time will tell but he seems genuinely ashamed at his behaviour and tormenting of us for years and that he wants to change with the help of a therapist. Before if I mentioned a therapist, he would refuse - now he's actively looking for one for himself and doesn't want to live in such an angry state and hurt his loved ones anymore.
Maybe there is a sliver of hope here ... but I dunno

trailmix

So he tells you to **** off, tells your dad to **** off but he's genuinely ashamed now? What about in the years prior?

Why would he be shocked at his behaviour? Does he not see himself? Hear himself? Maybe I'm missing something here.

StephEgan

I dunno - I guess he was in denial about how ridiculous he had become? I think he likely hates himself deep down for his behaviour but really, how does someone like this manage to change?

trailmix

With (probably years) of help, professional help.

There are only two ways he meant that. He's lying and this is his manipulative way of getting back in your "good books". Or he's not lying and has just been a jerk for years. Either way isn't good. Either way is denial in some form.

And yes, to answer your question, the big - I have been a fool, I'm either not drinking or you are blowing it all out of proportion - talk - is not rare.

StephEgan

I have no idea what to believe because i know this is typical **** "they' can say - but at the same time, i don't know for sure what he has been drinking.

He said he loves us blah blah we are the most important things to him so i said "well then why are you mean to us"?. No answer there

trailmix

Why would anyone who is drinking rather normally, hide it in their golf bag? Why would they cry and confess to drinking vodka?

None of this adds up.

StephEgan

I know right? In the psat, I didn't like when he poured strong drinks and if he put back the vodka and he didn't like my comments so started hiding it I think. He also claims to hve a high tolerance and needs more than the rest of us to keep up pace but if he didn't drink much, then why would that be is what I said and he had no answer for that....

trailmix

"One of the most damaging interpersonal scenarios occurs when the addict, usually as the consequence of some unforeseen crisis directly stemming from his addiction, promises with all of the sincerity at his command to stop his addictive behavior and never under any circumstances to resume it again.

"I promise," the addict pleads, sometimes with tears in his eyes. "I know I have been wrong, and this time I have learned my lesson. You'll never have to worry about me again. It will never happen again!"

But it does happen again and again, and again, and again. Each time the promises, each time their breaking. Those who first responded to his sincere sounding promises of reform with relief, hope and at times even joy soon become disillusioned and bitter.

Spouses and other family members begin to ask a perfectly logical question: "If you really love and care about me, why do you keep doing what you know hurts me so badly?" To this the addict has no answer except to promise once again to do better, "this time for real, you'll see!" or to respond with grievances and complaints of his own. The question of fairness arises as the addict attempts to extenuate his own admitted transgressions by repeated references to what he considers the equal or greater faults of those who complain of his addictive behavior. This natural defensive maneuver of "the best defense is a good offense" variety can be the first step on a slippery slope that leads to the paranoid demonization of the very people the addict cares about the most. Unable any longer to carry the burden of his own transgressions he begins to think of himself as the victim of the unfairness and unreasonableness of others who are forever harping on his addiction and the consequences that flow from it. "Leave me alone," he may snap. "I'm not hurting anybody but myself!" He has become almost totally blind to how his addictive behavior does in fact harm those around him who care about him; and he has grown so confused that hurting only himself has begun to sound like a rational, even a virtuous thing to do"!

Addiction, Lies and Relationships

StephEgan

My therapist:It will be interesting to note how you feel after you read that book. If we combine Eric Berne's insights with those of IFS, we may be able to acknowledge that some part of him is sincerely shocked at his behaviour and feeling repentant. But as long as the other part of him (the one that hid the vodka in the golf bag) is still promoting alcohol as a strategy, sooner or later that part will surface again and the whole sequence runs again. Dealing just with the repentant part feels hopeful, but if the alcohol part (and the lying part) are not actually addressed and healed, nothing is really solved. So the temporary retreat of the offending parts does not necessarily signal or predict change. The repentant part is literally designed to repair the damage temporarily before the next round of drinking.

Lots to think about,

Funny - just today my mum said "it's like he has multiple personalities" and I agreed!

Spiderweb

Just catching up on your situation and I can very much relate. A’s will do and say anything to keep you around and in the dance. He knows exactly what to say to guilt/shame/manipulate you. Even though you disagree with his drinking, you staying allows him to keep you and your DD close, look like a nice family from the outside, and continue to drink. Who does that benefit? My therapist told me that you will never be 100% ready to leave. I think I was at 80% and that is bad enough. Also, base this decision on previous behavior, not hopes for the future. I’m sure your folks are lovely people but remember that only you and your daughter are living this - trust your gut.

StephEgan

my gut is keeping me on the fence - moving ahead with my plan to speak to legal next week and start getting anything required into place quietly in the background while I assess what he is up to for a little while. I thinkthe therapist is right though and this is a repeating pattern - i told my husband just that tonight! I said this is a cycle I've watched for a decade now without knowing the cuase in the background was vodka! You are mean and nasty for months, I blow up, you repent and are nice for a month or 2 then it starts again over and over again!! So I fully expect that will happen but really in the grand scheme of things, I should wait a couple of months to see what he does, while getting my ducks in a row in the background.

You are right about looking like a nice family from the outside! But I think the cracks are showing! My dad said today "this isn't a very happy household" to me. i was devastated because I am a happy cheerful person and I try to keep my daughter motivated and cheerful as best I can!

StephEgan

He was trying to hug me and tell me he loves me - I stood frozen like a statue with my arms straight down and walked away. I'm sure that sent a message! My 9 yo does the same thing when he tries to hug her and say he loves her - she just sort of smiles while not looking at him and sits frozen and does not reciprocate. I tell him "you need to earn it" and I do think he realised that tonight and just how the 2 of us are falling out of love with him. It's like he thought we would alway slove him no matter what he did to us?

trailmix

I think you give him too much credit perhaps for considering any of you in any of this. Addiction is a selfish pursuit. Can't stress that enough.

StephEgan

Yes I totally get that - just still trying to figure out if he definitely is an addict or not. This is all very sudden I'm sure people understand. I'll be getting everything lined up legally to protect myself and my daughter. I presume it could be a good month of things I can be gathering up before I need to tell him about it ... his parents are coming in 3 wks for a visit and my daughter has a really strong bond with his mum who she hasn't seen in 2 yrs. The focus for me now is on her having a nice visit with her gran. She broke down in tears when I told her about the visit today She misses her gran so much! So it wil lbe 5 wks til the visit is done (I just hope Covid doesn't mess that up for her!!). I probably need to get evidence together and in order etc in the background while waiting to see what he ends up actually doing about all of this, if anything at all.

trailmix

I do understand and understand that you have taken on a lot of information in a short time and now need to look at how it applies and to come to your own conclusions.