Blogs


Notices

Advice needed- what to say, if anything, to kids?

Old 11-27-2016, 12:49 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Advice needed- what to say, if anything, to kids?

My question for you all is how could or should I have handled this differently? I truly am at the end of my rope w how to deal with insane xAH

So, XAH saw the kids briefly on Fri and texted DD 11 and DD 8 after his visit to say he would sign them up to do a winter sport that I had told them I was unlikely to be able to afford to do. I had explained this privately to XAH and told him to NOT make false promises to them to do it bc I would NOT be able to scramble and pay for it myself if he backed out.

The deadline to sign up/pay is today. The kids and I logged in to see if they are registered so they know whether or not to pack gear for said sport for tomorrow and OF COURSE they are not. I again explained to them that I CAN NOT afford it and that I was sorry they were disappointed etc...

They called XAH (I said it was ok) and asked him if he was going to sign them up (I said that was fine for them to call but told them that they shouldn't get their hopes up).

He told them that he would "look into it" (knowing that today is the deadline) and told them that I am a "bad mother" for "involving them" in an adult issue that is between he and I. He also told them that they need to learn "what no means" and that they are "spoiled brats" for always asking for something. This was all recorded bc whenever they call him it is on speaker at the instruction of the therapist.

I told them to end the call and they left the room crying. He insisted on talking to me and I continued to record it.

He told me that I should not have had the kids call, that it was inappropriate, etc.... I said nothing during his rant except to reiterate that he was the one who had told the kids he would sign them up, that they wanted an answer and that he could simply say yes or no to them.

I thought that having them call was appropriate. Maybe not?

I know in my mind that he is doing this to them to get a reaction from me-- he is hurting them in order to see if he can get a rise out of me-- and it is nearly about to work.

I don't know which end is up anymore and I am at the end of my rope...

Advice?
wanttobehealthy is offline  
Old 11-27-2016, 12:56 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
A work in progress
 
LexieCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, it seems to me that they are within their rights to ask either one of you for whatever they want. You made it clear all along that you couldn't afford it, their dad had hinted that he would, and they needed to find out what his decision was.

It's too bad he was such a jerk (thank goodness your kids are getting counseling), but I don't see that you did anything wrong. It's not as if you said, "Ask your deadbeat dad"--he set up this situation, so he's got nothing to complain about.

I think you're reading it right--he's trying to get a rise out of you. Don't take the bait. You can't have a reasonable discussion with him about it. Rant about it here, document it for court, and hug the kiddos. You can share their disappointment without making it a bigger deal than it has to be. Lots of people can't afford to do everything they'd like to.

Hugs,
LexieCat is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to LexieCat For This Useful Post:
AnvilheadII (11-27-2016), Ariesagain (11-27-2016), sauerkraut (11-28-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 01:00 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 767
Wanttobehealthy - sorry you are going through this.

I would keep the kids out of it for a while since he has a track record of false promises, and talk to them about how when dad says things - sometimes he means them and other times he does not - and that it has nothing to do with them.

He is probably doing it to get a rise out of you so that he can sit around and pontificate about your behavior being wrong. My RXAH is doing exactly the same thing. Protect the kiddies and do not engage.
Nata1980 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Nata1980 For This Useful Post:
sauerkraut (11-28-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 01:39 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
AnvilheadII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,590
texted DD 11 and DD 8 after his visit to say he would sign them up to do a winter sport

He told them that he would "look into it" (knowing that today is the deadline) and told them that I am a "bad mother" for "involving them" in an adult issue that is between he and I. He also told them that they need to learn "what no means" and that they are "spoiled brats" for always asking for something. This was all recorded bc whenever they call him it is on speaker at the instruction of the therapist.

HE told them HE would sign them up. then comes the deadline and now he says that his kids are spoiled brats for asking too much.

dude is psycho. you simply cannot trust a word he says or a promise he makes. he uses his own children for his sick manipulations. same ole same ole.

you did nothing wrong. except perhaps to think for one second he cared about his children.
AnvilheadII is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to AnvilheadII For This Useful Post:
sauerkraut (11-28-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 01:48 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
A work in progress
 
LexieCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Oh, and in terms of what to say to the kids NOW, I think all you have to say is that their dad sometimes says things without thinking it through, so they should try not to take those things as promises. If they cry and say he's horrible, you don't have to defend him, but you can acknowledge how disappointed they are and let them work it through. Unfortunately, this is a pattern with him and they have to be allowed to draw their own conclusions.
LexieCat is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to LexieCat For This Useful Post:
August252015 (11-28-2016), sauerkraut (11-28-2016), Thumper (11-29-2016), wanttobehealthy (11-28-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 02:05 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
 
Maudcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 6,943
Hey, wantobe, he's mad because you and the kids called him on his irresponsible behavior. Alcoholics hate that. I wouldn't feel bad about it. You and they were just trying to get an answer so they could plan accordingly. As to what you should say, they already know a lot about promises not kept, and will continue to learn more as they get older. Unless, of course, your ex gets sober. Agree with above posters that you just say that their dad doesn't always keep his promises. Peace.
Maudcat is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Maudcat For This Useful Post:
sauerkraut (11-28-2016), wanttobehealthy (11-27-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 03:38 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
So, XAH saw the kids briefly on Fri and texted DD 11 and DD 8 after his visit to say he would sign them up to do a winter sport that I had told them I was unlikely to be able to afford to do.

They called XAH

He told them that he would "look into it" and told them that I am a "bad mother" for "involving them" in an adult issue that is between he and I. He also told them that they need to learn "what no means" and that they are "spoiled brats" for always asking for something
Yeah, unless there's something missing in the story and he told them at some point in the past that he changed his mind, he's trying to find a way to avoid seeing his own shortcomings by projecting them onto others. If I tell somebody I will do ________, but then I change my mind without telling them, it is only expected that they would come back and ask me, "Hey, are you still going to do ________ like you said you would?"

In other words:
He's getting mad because you didn't shelter him from having his children hold him accountable to his word.

This is alcoholic logic.
Thomas45 is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Thomas45 For This Useful Post:
Katchie (11-27-2016), Ladybird579 (12-20-2016), Maudcat (11-27-2016), sauerkraut (11-28-2016), wanttobehealthy (11-27-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 03:45 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
Katchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Central USA
Posts: 1,478
Yep, what Thomas45 said!
Katchie is offline  
Old 11-27-2016, 03:47 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
It just got a WHOLE lot worse.

He called DD11 back and I have decided to record EVERYTHING from now on and he told her she's a "f'ing bitch like her psycho mother and that he's DONE with her being a c _ _ _ and that he's DONE with her"

I ended the call and took her phone.

He has continued to text her incessantly, much the same things he said on the phone.

I replied once to say "this is notice that your contact is to CEASE and further contact will constitute harassment and involve the police."

It continued and the police were called by me and they are on their way to review the messages and possibly pursue this as a matter of harassment.

He is out of his god damned mind and the fact that he's raging at his CHILD for expressing to him that he has let her down, is a whole new level of psycho.

Jesus Christ.
wanttobehealthy is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wanttobehealthy For This Useful Post:
Ariesagain (11-27-2016), sauerkraut (11-28-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 03:59 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
 
Katchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Central USA
Posts: 1,478
I am SO VERY SORRY, but I'm glad you stood up for your children alerting the police to his over the top verbal abuse and harassment of your child. How sad. I pray that your daughter is alright. Its a good thing she has you!
Katchie is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Katchie For This Useful Post:
sauerkraut (11-28-2016), wanttobehealthy (11-27-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 04:12 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
He is out of his god damned mind and the fact that he's raging at his CHILD for expressing to him that he has let her down, is a whole new level of psycho.
Never underestimate an alcoholic's ability to lose sanity when they are confronted about letting others down for failing to live up to their own word.

I can't recall if I ever went into specific detail about one of my own conversations of this nature with the ex A, but what came up during that conversation was that we were trying to save money for plane tickets to go visit her home country to attend the 1 year anniversary of her father passing away. I was carrying a tremendous amount of debt from our wedding, truck purchase, and multiple previous trips to her home country, so our agreement was that I would focus on paying those debts down and she would be able to save her income to afford our plane tickets. Then after the trip, we'd both double down on paying our debt off that was mostly in my name. The gist of the celebration is that the immediate funeral lasts for almost a full month of mourning, and then after a certain amount of time has passed they throw a celebration of the person's life, hire entertainers, etc. so that the deceased can 'pass over' to the next life. It's expected that all family members attend.

Anywho, she promised her mother that if her mother hired an expensive group of concert entertainers, she would pay her mother back to split the concert bill 50/50. Problem is, she developed an online shopping obsession on top of her partying habits and ended up asking to borrow money from her mother so that she could afford the plane tickets - after her mother booked the entertainers to put on a concert. So at that point she's putting the entire bill on her mother, as well as half the plane tickets for us to get there. In the meantime, I'm doing everything I possibly can to come up with the money to keep our debts under control while still paying my half of the immediate house expenses, including selling some of my personal possessions that were gifts from my own deceased grandmother in order to keep the household together, while she buys 5-10 articles of clothing/handbags per week through online shopping.

I was the jerk for bringing up the point that she was letting me and her mother down.

Addictions will do everything they possibly can to prevent an addict from feeling like they're responsible for anything that goes wrong in their life. That includes tearing down relationships with family members.
Thomas45 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Thomas45 For This Useful Post:
Ladybird579 (12-20-2016), Maudcat (11-27-2016), sauerkraut (11-28-2016), wanttobehealthy (11-27-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 04:17 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
 
Maudcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 6,943
Oh, Thomas. That's awful. So sorry.
Maudcat is offline  
Old 11-27-2016, 04:30 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 333
I appreciate the thought Maud, though I only brought it up to help explain the point I was trying to make. My ex blamed me for telling her that she let me down, just like WTBH's ex is blaming her for her children telling their father that he let them down.
Thomas45 is offline  
Old 11-27-2016, 04:38 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Police came and went. They were extremely nice, told DD11 to NEVER allow anyone, even her dad to treat her that way and that she is right to have told him she doesn't want to hear from him.

To me they advised to go to the court in the morning and seek a temp RO on behalf of the kids...

I truly don't know that I will.

A 10 day order, that allows him a day in court to rant and make allegations is not particularly worth it to me.

I think a better use of my time is to contact my lawyer tonight and ask her to draw up a motion for supervised visits. This ranting on record, and in writing, shows he can't handle behaving sane with our kids and I seriously hope the court imposes supervised visits asap.
wanttobehealthy is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to wanttobehealthy For This Useful Post:
LexieCat (11-27-2016), sauerkraut (11-28-2016), Thumper (11-29-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 04:57 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
To me they advised to go to the court in the morning and seek a temp RO on behalf of the kids...

I truly don't know that I will.

A 10 day order, that allows him a day in court to rant and make allegations is not particularly worth it to me.
Sleep on it and give it some thought. I won't push you in one way or another, but I would suggest you take into account how DD11 will feel about this going forward. What he said to her was extremely abusive, and even if you get supervised visits set up, his right to supervised visits may supersede your daughter's wishes to not see him if that's her request. And in the meantime, if he has any sort of visitation rights he could choose to exercise them while you're drawing up plans with your lawyer, which may further harm your daughter emotionally and hurt your case if you attempt to deny him any legal visitation rights he currently holds on the basis that your daughter 'doesn't want to.'
Thomas45 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Thomas45 For This Useful Post:
August252015 (11-28-2016), sauerkraut (11-28-2016), wanttobehealthy (11-27-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 05:18 PM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Thomas45 View Post
Sleep on it and give it some thought. I won't push you in one way or another, but I would suggest you take into account how DD11 will feel about this going forward. What he said to her was extremely abusive, and even if you get supervised visits set up, his right to supervised visits may supersede your daughter's wishes to not see him if that's her request. And in the meantime, if he has any sort of visitation rights he could choose to exercise them while you're drawing up plans with your lawyer, which may further harm your daughter emotionally and hurt your case if you attempt to deny him any legal visitation rights he currently holds on the basis that your daughter 'doesn't want to.'
Sleeping on it for sure is what I need to do-- I am just worried that a temporary restraining order will just fuel his psychotic belief he is being wrongly persecuted and make him more vengeful... I spent 4+ years in court trying to just divorce him and have some semblance of safety for the kids and I am deathly afraid of going back to court given how capricious and arbitrary but long lasting, the court orders can be.

My state is INSANE in its emphasis on fathers rights and anytime I have sought to limit his visits, ie: supervised visits and RO's in the past- even when he has been arrested for violent crimes in front of the girls, the court is more concerned with HIS rights than the kids well being...

So I guess Im hoping my lawyer can look at this (as you all can too) much more objectively than I am able to right now and advise me as to what is best...

Thank you for your compassion and support... both girls are asleep now and I am a puddle of tears due to frustration and hurt for my poor kids
wanttobehealthy is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to wanttobehealthy For This Useful Post:
sauerkraut (11-28-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 05:27 PM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,099
Sending you a big hug...what a terrible thing. If a stranger treated your child this way, he'd be arrested.

Thank goodness your children know you always, always have their back.
Ariesagain is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ariesagain For This Useful Post:
sauerkraut (11-28-2016), wanttobehealthy (11-27-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 05:29 PM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Ariesagain View Post
Sending you a big hug...what a terrible thing.If a stranger treated your child this way he'd be arrested
EXACTLY. Evidently, in families, as the awesome cop told me tonight, "it's not illegal to be a complete *******".

I started to cry at that point.

Like I said, Im completely at my breaking point now.
wanttobehealthy is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to wanttobehealthy For This Useful Post:
sauerkraut (11-28-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 05:58 PM
  # 19 (permalink)  
A work in progress
 
LexieCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I'm glad you called the police and got this all on the record. That is potentially child abuse, depending on the law in your state--this is way more than bad parenting. For a father to use that language directly to his daughter is shocking to anyone. Remember the fuss when Alec Baldwin called his daughter a "pig"? This is that times 10.

I don't know how successful you'd be at getting a protective order for them. In most places, children can only be covered under an order that the parent has. Find out before you pursue one--no point in letting him feel an unwarranted sense of victory.

I think even a "father's rights" judge might have something to say about this. At 11, the judge might weigh her wishes heavily under the circumstances and allow her to forego visits for as long as she is uncomfortable.

I'm so sorry for you and the kiddos.
LexieCat is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LexieCat For This Useful Post:
sauerkraut (11-28-2016), wanttobehealthy (11-27-2016)
Old 11-27-2016, 07:50 PM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
I'm glad you called the police and got this all on the record. That is potentially child abuse, depending on the law in your state--this is way more than bad parenting. For a father to use that language directly to his daughter is shocking to anyone.
Thankfully he was drunk enough or just plain insane enough to say it all on record and text a lot of it-- lots and lots of proof

Remember the fuss when Alec Baldwin called his daughter a "pig"? This is that times 10.

I actually referenced that to the cop (who was stunningly nice and super sympathetic and wished he could do more and actually took xAH's number and tried to call him from his phone but in front of me and said maybe giving him a jolt would get him to stop...) And he said that if I were a celebrity, my concerns would probably merit a LOT more attention than they do as a mere citizen and I totally agreed... He pointed to the Brad Pitt nonsense going on and said that what he read that XAH said to DD11 was way worse than what the tabloids were reporting about the Brangelina nonsense and that he felt for me and he wished he could find a way to say that the texts were criminal but he did not see it....

I don't know how successful you'd be at getting a protective order for them. In most places, children can only be covered under an order that the parent has. Find out before you pursue one--no point in letting him feel an unwarranted sense of victory.
Totally true-- that's the last thing I want...

I think even a "father's rights" judge might have something to say about this. At 11, the judge might weigh her wishes heavily under the circumstances and allow her to forego visits for as long as she is uncomfortable.
Yeah, I think we are at Guardian Ad Lidem time and that DD11's wishes need to count...

I'm so sorry for you and the kiddos.
Thank you... me too-- my heart hurts so much for them...
wanttobehealthy is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to wanttobehealthy For This Useful Post:
sauerkraut (11-28-2016)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:45 AM.