Alcoholic Wife Claims Abuse - Falsely
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Originally Posted by Oclaf 
Hey... A little bit late to the thread. Anyways I would like to state that children have no business discussing the issues of marriag . Actions speak louder than words and your doing a fine job portraying yourself to your son. Unless he asks you specific questions I would not weigh him down with thoughts that could put him into a negative space about his parents (lying, alcohol, abuse). Honestly children are extremely perceptive and he probably knows deep down that what his mother said doesn't match your actions. Even if he doesn't pick up on it, keeping your side clean will eventually pay off. He may ask certain questions when he is older to clarify the situation. It is irritating because you just want him to know the truth! It is a hard space to be in. Although I think your doing a great job! I hope I wasn't too blunt with my point, but I feel very strongly after being raised in a very supportive family and watching my nephews grow up with an addict mother. Your child might even ask why you didn't tell him before when he finds out. Just let him know that you wanted him to have a childhood and not grow up to fast. All and all though your doing a very fine job I would be happy to have a father like yourself.
I need to add that I did indeed express to my son only a couple weeks back exactly what youy said in te beginning: "Son, this is between me and your mother and does not involve you - and that is how it SHOULD be". He was insulted and I think felt kinda put out (LEFT out, actually), as our family is just us three, so most matters are out in the open. I too grew up with parents that kept their issues to themselves. I do have to wonder tho, if given our situation - just being us 3 and no real extended family around - if we aren't better being a little more open about these things.
Pretty torn here, but going on my gut for now. I guess since my son bristles at the idea of hearing about "Mom/Dad issues", maybe its better we keep them separate (or who knows, maybe he bristles BECAUSE I told him recently it was not his concern.... agh!
Thankfully things are calm right now so I can get some work done, deal with other life issues that happen regardless of all this, and maybe gain some clarity - - - praying I navigate my 'everyday days' with some wisdom and can keep the normal train on track...
God bless.
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Bob, you have stumbled on the analysis paralysis recovery site, lol.
We all tend to have lots of thoughts, and are willing to discuss them ad-infinitum.
As always, every man is his own prophet, every prophet just a man.
Life. It's pretty complicated.
Here's a puppy. Have a great day.
We all tend to have lots of thoughts, and are willing to discuss them ad-infinitum.
As always, every man is his own prophet, every prophet just a man.
Life. It's pretty complicated.
Here's a puppy. Have a great day.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
We DO truly wish you well Bob, even differing opinions here come from a place of love & sharing our truths. So glad you're going to seek out meetings. I'm not suggesting you do anything you aren't comfortable with. We all get there in our own way, in our own time & you will too.
It already IS a central issue in your lives, ignoring it will not create a solution. Nothing changes if nothing changes. You can only ignore the elephant in the room for so long.
Please be careful with ultimatums like the "tipping point" you refer to - it isn't the same thing as boundaries. Please also be careful not to minimize things - looking at it as "less than" another's poster's experience doesn't make it better, more manageable or ok. That's one of the traps that delays the process & keeps you thinking your situation isn't "so bad"; you invalidate yourself with that kind of thinking.
I think that the more subtle situations are so damaging over the long term because it's harder to identify the damage done. I wasn't physically or verbally abused & my AF was very high functioning; it took me YEARS to grasp the unhealthy behaviors I had learned as a child of an alcoholic & to recognize how I had applied them to every other relationship in my life. I thought of them as personality traits, even strengths. Recovery widened my perspective & I could see that those same traits might have actually started in an effort to self-preserve. Developed in REACTION to my environment rather than a part of who I was inherently. Huge identity crisis in my late 30's - You mean I don't HAVE to be this person?? ugh.
I was 15 when my AF finally achieved sobriety. I was relieved to finally have a name for the thing we'd been battling all those years because no one had ever used the words alcoholic or addict. It had been like fighting ghosts, never sure what was wrong but knowing something always was. But by then all I wanted was away, his sobriety no longer mattered. For too long I had been focused on simply getting through whatever was directly in front of me & "playing the game" that made up our lives. I couldn't relate to my parents when he got sober, I didn't really know them any longer & we never sat down & acclimated ourselves with all the changes as a family & I felt completely disassociated. I didn't know what I DID want, but I knew I had to be far away from my entire family to try to figure it all out. Even as the "sober" parent, my mother was not at all prepared or able to help me & I had as much, if not more, resentment toward her as I did him. While I could find empathy for his addiction, I could not understand one bit of her enabling, enmeshed ways. I resented her for not standing up for herself, for accepting crap behavior, for never ever ever ever talking to us about the things we saw with our own eyes. I was determined to never marry & never have children.
Just sharing my experience here, no judgment against your own. Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. Keep reading (not just this thread/this forum), keep posting!
It already IS a central issue in your lives, ignoring it will not create a solution. Nothing changes if nothing changes. You can only ignore the elephant in the room for so long.
Please be careful with ultimatums like the "tipping point" you refer to - it isn't the same thing as boundaries. Please also be careful not to minimize things - looking at it as "less than" another's poster's experience doesn't make it better, more manageable or ok. That's one of the traps that delays the process & keeps you thinking your situation isn't "so bad"; you invalidate yourself with that kind of thinking.
I think that the more subtle situations are so damaging over the long term because it's harder to identify the damage done. I wasn't physically or verbally abused & my AF was very high functioning; it took me YEARS to grasp the unhealthy behaviors I had learned as a child of an alcoholic & to recognize how I had applied them to every other relationship in my life. I thought of them as personality traits, even strengths. Recovery widened my perspective & I could see that those same traits might have actually started in an effort to self-preserve. Developed in REACTION to my environment rather than a part of who I was inherently. Huge identity crisis in my late 30's - You mean I don't HAVE to be this person?? ugh.
I was 15 when my AF finally achieved sobriety. I was relieved to finally have a name for the thing we'd been battling all those years because no one had ever used the words alcoholic or addict. It had been like fighting ghosts, never sure what was wrong but knowing something always was. But by then all I wanted was away, his sobriety no longer mattered. For too long I had been focused on simply getting through whatever was directly in front of me & "playing the game" that made up our lives. I couldn't relate to my parents when he got sober, I didn't really know them any longer & we never sat down & acclimated ourselves with all the changes as a family & I felt completely disassociated. I didn't know what I DID want, but I knew I had to be far away from my entire family to try to figure it all out. Even as the "sober" parent, my mother was not at all prepared or able to help me & I had as much, if not more, resentment toward her as I did him. While I could find empathy for his addiction, I could not understand one bit of her enabling, enmeshed ways. I resented her for not standing up for herself, for accepting crap behavior, for never ever ever ever talking to us about the things we saw with our own eyes. I was determined to never marry & never have children.
Just sharing my experience here, no judgment against your own. Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. Keep reading (not just this thread/this forum), keep posting!
Wow, someone turned on the fire hose again - LOL! Hey, inspired words, for sure. If I can cherry pick from your post just a bit, I will say that unlike many wives may do with a drinking husband, I step in if there is poor behavior from my wife directed at our son. That's when I get all the attitude and, "You are too nice, too permissive, etc." and "Why must you always be dismissive of me?" blah blah blah. Oftentimes I have felt like my son's protector IN MY HOME, and no, its not right to feel like you have to protect your own son from the wrath of his own mother!!! But we are married and we know we are very different as parents, so that is something I have had to deal with, alcohol or not.
I think she is too harsh, even when sober; She is not the sweetest, kindest, most nurturing of Moms, but not an awful witch either. I am pretty sure this tough-Mom, semi-removed nature passes down from her Mom (military wife, kids, moving all over, strict rules and deadlines and such). All that to say its not JUST the alcohol, so addressing our issues as solely alcohol-related would be incorrect, which is another reason I am a little tentative about proceeding full-on with blaming anything negative in our lives on alcohol.
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Originally Posted by biminiblue
Bob, you have stumbled on the analysis paralysis recovery site, lol.
We all tend to have lots of thoughts, and are willing to discuss them ad-infinitum.
As always, every man is his own prophet, every prophet just a man.
Life. It's pretty complicated.
Here's a puppy. Have a great day.
We all tend to have lots of thoughts, and are willing to discuss them ad-infinitum.
As always, every man is his own prophet, every prophet just a man.
Life. It's pretty complicated.
Here's a puppy. Have a great day.
And how fitting a 'gift'. Dogs are the example we all need to live by, aren't they? So few needs: Love, sleep, love, food, love, play, love, repeat...
The biggest complication leading to analysis paralysis my dog experiences lasts about 3 seconds when he is faced with the choice of going inside to be fed or going with me and my son for a walk
Life is tough all over
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Since things have gotten a little philosophical here, how about a touch of drama? When we had the big blowup during which she made thinly veiled threats to accuse me of being an "abuser", she also said she "might just go ahead" and show our son some emails I had sent her. You see, since we have little or no time to talk when she is 100% sober, I decided to write what was on my mind and send it to her if she was not available to listen. Well, she took my sending emails as "hate mail", even though most of it was constructive, some critical, and most addressing aspects of our unpleasant life together in recent times. Okay, so she threatened to show our son emails of a personal nature between husband and wife; Emails that would surely be upsetting or at least confusing to a child. Basically sh-- that a child need not know, see, or hear. So the next day I deleted her inbox contents beyond a week or so.
This may cause all sorts of reaction here, but I knew one thing and one thing only: She was suggesting she would use the contents of these emails as a weapon with which to torment me via hitting our son with their content. My reaction was simply, "No, that can't happen; Enough is enough already", so I made sure it indeed would not happen. You might say I Hillary'd her email (lol). Right or wrong (BTW: she does not have important or business matters documented there), I dumped all received messages but for the last week or two.
I only bring this up now b/c she only just mentioned it tonight. I thought she hadn't noticed and honestly I had forgotten about it. She was missing a sleeping pill tonight that had been on her nightstand (last one she had, it would seem) and asked if I had "done something" with it b/c I had emailed her a website about possible dangers of Ambien and she thought maybe I had gotten rid of or hidden it. When I explained I would never mess with someone's food or medication as a matter of decency, she brought up what I did with her email as if to say I WOULD. I just said, "You weren't threatening our son with your sleeping pill, just your email. Now if you had threatened to use the pills to harm our son, yes, I would have made them disappear as well.". Actually, if she threatened to use pills on our son, she would be in JAIL, but this was my analogous reply to her suspicion.
Alright, sacred property advocates give me your best shot! I was so steamed about her threats - and believing them - I took action. Sue me. Part of that action was coming here in desperation too. I regret neither and would do both again.
'Night lovely people!
This may cause all sorts of reaction here, but I knew one thing and one thing only: She was suggesting she would use the contents of these emails as a weapon with which to torment me via hitting our son with their content. My reaction was simply, "No, that can't happen; Enough is enough already", so I made sure it indeed would not happen. You might say I Hillary'd her email (lol). Right or wrong (BTW: she does not have important or business matters documented there), I dumped all received messages but for the last week or two.
I only bring this up now b/c she only just mentioned it tonight. I thought she hadn't noticed and honestly I had forgotten about it. She was missing a sleeping pill tonight that had been on her nightstand (last one she had, it would seem) and asked if I had "done something" with it b/c I had emailed her a website about possible dangers of Ambien and she thought maybe I had gotten rid of or hidden it. When I explained I would never mess with someone's food or medication as a matter of decency, she brought up what I did with her email as if to say I WOULD. I just said, "You weren't threatening our son with your sleeping pill, just your email. Now if you had threatened to use the pills to harm our son, yes, I would have made them disappear as well.". Actually, if she threatened to use pills on our son, she would be in JAIL, but this was my analogous reply to her suspicion.
Alright, sacred property advocates give me your best shot! I was so steamed about her threats - and believing them - I took action. Sue me. Part of that action was coming here in desperation too. I regret neither and would do both again.
'Night lovely people!
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Hahaha I love your positive energy although you are dealing with a lot on your plate. I'm glad everyone comes to give their opinions on the subject, as this is a very dynamic problem it has no one fit solution. I'm glad you were able to delete the emails, as I'm sure it could of been very hurtful for your image to your son! Try to avoid giving her any sort of ammunition (hard evidence) that would give her leverage to controlling you.
Keep at finding the right solutions and some trail and error might have to happen, but I know you'll do the right combination to success. Maybe you could of worded to your son differently about the situation. Instead of making him feel left out you state that your wife and you love him very much and want him to put together his own life and not have to worry about what's going on in yours. Try not to label that you guys are having problems. I wouldn't dewl on it he will be fine, so only if he brings up anything you could restate that to him. Isn't walking on egg shells fun?
Keep at finding the right solutions and some trail and error might have to happen, but I know you'll do the right combination to success. Maybe you could of worded to your son differently about the situation. Instead of making him feel left out you state that your wife and you love him very much and want him to put together his own life and not have to worry about what's going on in yours. Try not to label that you guys are having problems. I wouldn't dewl on it he will be fine, so only if he brings up anything you could restate that to him. Isn't walking on egg shells fun?
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Originally Posted by Oclaf
Hahaha I love your positive energy although you are dealing with a lot on your plate. I'm glad everyone comes to give their opinions on the subject, as this is a very dynamic problem it has no one fit solution. I'm glad you were able to delete the emails, as I'm sure it could of been very hurtful for your image to your son! Try to avoid giving her any sort of ammunition (hard evidence) that would give her leverage to controlling you.
Keep at finding the right solutions and some trail and error might have to happen, but I know you'll do the right combination to success. Maybe you could of worded to your son differently about the situation. Instead of making him feel left out you state that your wife and you love him very much and want him to put together his own life and not have to worry about what's going on in yours. Try not to label that you guys are having problems. I wouldn't dewl on it he will be fine, so only if he brings up anything you could restate that to him. Isn't walking on egg shells fun?
Keep at finding the right solutions and some trail and error might have to happen, but I know you'll do the right combination to success. Maybe you could of worded to your son differently about the situation. Instead of making him feel left out you state that your wife and you love him very much and want him to put together his own life and not have to worry about what's going on in yours. Try not to label that you guys are having problems. I wouldn't dewl on it he will be fine, so only if he brings up anything you could restate that to him. Isn't walking on egg shells fun?
Thank you for the kind praise and thought-filled encouragement. If I am not drowning in sorrow or stressed to the max, I try and keep some levity to it all. Must come from my mother; She would sometimes laugh at the absolute most inappropriate times (funny in hindsight) - but it was her way of coping with difficult or seemingly hopeless situations.
You mentioned 'hard evidence". Funny thing is, those emails make an excellent chronology of her bad behavior, as most are responses to things she has said or done that I felt needed addressing. Maybe some day I will be the one to show our son, but in a very different context. (No, I have no intention of doing that, but they could serve as reference in the future if needed).
Like the other threats, I think the one about the emails was probably an empty one, made as a spontaneous "counter-offensive" tactic in anger and desperation (mostly the latter). Pretty sure she senses my tolerance is coming to an end, and when people feel their back is against the wall (or their addiction is at risk of being exposed, or worse, dealt with), they will do desperate things, i.e. - up the drama.
And, like the other threats, I'm pretty sure the reason they were done IN FRONT OF OUR SON was to create the image in his mind that I have done something awful (like when she ran out to the family room saying I had "charged at" and threatened her in the bathroom. Seems she uses him like a judge and jury for our bad fights.
(CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHY? POSTURING FOR DIVORCE TESTIMONY? HURTING ME BY MAKING MY SON THINK LESS OF ME??? SHE SAYS SHE FEELS "SAFER" HITTING ME WITH THESE THINGS IN FRONT OF MY SON - - WHAT - AM I GOING TO "ATTACK" HER IF HE IS NOT THERE? SHE KNOWS ME WELL ENOUGH TO KNOW I WOULD NOT. SO WHY WHY WHY??!!). Sorry, had to get that out and I do hope someone posts a good explanation.
Its very upsetting to think my son probably believes I actually have done what she has charged, including having sent her all kinds of "hate mail" (I do have the emails I sent, if I ever need to prove they were NOT hate-mail). She is frighteningly slick when it comes to portraying an image of herself or someone else, effectively adding spin to a situation (she watches and apparently learns too much from political news sources!). She really should be one of those Image Consultants for a sleazy, high-level politician. She would be great at it... Not a 'talent' I respect or admire in the least, by the way.
FYI anyone here who is pondering "why on earth are you still there?".
We have a son, a house, a life. The thought of tearing that apart is worse than the reality I have to live with something I am not happy with "for better or for worse". Pretty simple. I don't know what the tipping point could be for me, but it was close last week. I still need to try and have a chat about that, as we have not sat down and referenced what she did/said that day. I have referenced it and she just wants to put it in the past like it didn't happen, and has said once or twice,"It was not THAT bad" as if I am blowing it out of proportion and should drop it - - which is certainly what she wants and is hoping the passage of time will make happen. NOt any more - - I've got you guys on my side now - ha-HAAAA!!!! (said like a confident storybook swordsman about to pull out his best fencing moves).
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A general comment here (looking at the forest instead of just the trees).
Things got so bad in my life that I came here where I have received incredible support. I am now in a position of wondering how isolated this was, and not happy knowing it could have ever happened at all. I don't want to make our issues the focus of our lives - especially with an 'only child' situation in which he would be living thru it with us. But I don't necessarily think "moving forward" without some sort of "closure", putting what has happened into proper perspective. That's my quandary now, and there are clearly two sides to that here - - - and I am planted squarely in the middle, right on the fence line. I tend to go toward not saying anything unless it is brought up or seems relevant to a conversation. But that may never happen. I worry 5 years from now my son will have been thinking I am a monster behind closed doors, "Why did Dad to those things back then?", but is it not almost as bad that he may be thinking, "Why did my Mom say that stuff about Dad?". (Latter, I hear some voices here saying 'that is why you tell him'. Others saying 'he doesn't need this, just let him make his own bservations'. Problem with the latter - she is The Spin Doctor and probably has a lot of influence on his perception of things - - or maybe not?????? She sure tries, and from what I can tell, does a good job of it - - but with all the clamming up, I honestly don't know what he thinks.
Things got so bad in my life that I came here where I have received incredible support. I am now in a position of wondering how isolated this was, and not happy knowing it could have ever happened at all. I don't want to make our issues the focus of our lives - especially with an 'only child' situation in which he would be living thru it with us. But I don't necessarily think "moving forward" without some sort of "closure", putting what has happened into proper perspective. That's my quandary now, and there are clearly two sides to that here - - - and I am planted squarely in the middle, right on the fence line. I tend to go toward not saying anything unless it is brought up or seems relevant to a conversation. But that may never happen. I worry 5 years from now my son will have been thinking I am a monster behind closed doors, "Why did Dad to those things back then?", but is it not almost as bad that he may be thinking, "Why did my Mom say that stuff about Dad?". (Latter, I hear some voices here saying 'that is why you tell him'. Others saying 'he doesn't need this, just let him make his own bservations'. Problem with the latter - she is The Spin Doctor and probably has a lot of influence on his perception of things - - or maybe not?????? She sure tries, and from what I can tell, does a good job of it - - but with all the clamming up, I honestly don't know what he thinks.
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Psychoanalysing your wife and her motivations is fruitless. She is an alcoholic determined to protect her right and ability to drink. She is using your son (which I find despicable) to put you on the defensive so that the elephant in the room (her drinking) can get ignored for one more day. Pretty much all of her behavior right now revolves around protecting her drinking.
You said you don't want your son exposed to adult/ marriage issues. I agree with that wholeheartedly. However, her alcoholism is not only an adult issue. It does not only impact your marriage. Now that you've shared a bit more about the family dynamic and her behavior deliberately putting your son in the middle, I'm even more concerned for him than I was before.
Of course he spends all his time hiding in his room losing himself in a virtual world. His parents are NUTS! Your wife with her drinking and you with your belief that this is somehow going to magically work out if you keep spinning reality to try to make everything look OK and get a bunch of strangers from the Internet to take your side.
I was a lot like him. Very shy, very little interaction with other people (I was constantly terrified of doing or saying the wrong thing), hiding in fantasy (mine was books rather than games). But I was quiet, generally well behaved (I was too afraid not to be) got good grades, so on the surface everything was "fine" because I didn't make any waves.
Yes you have us for support (I abhor the idea of "taking sides" because of how I grew up), but who does your son have? Two parents who are using him like a rope in their marriage tug of war.
None of that was intended to be harsh, and I know that you're new to all this. Good luck.
You said you don't want your son exposed to adult/ marriage issues. I agree with that wholeheartedly. However, her alcoholism is not only an adult issue. It does not only impact your marriage. Now that you've shared a bit more about the family dynamic and her behavior deliberately putting your son in the middle, I'm even more concerned for him than I was before.
Of course he spends all his time hiding in his room losing himself in a virtual world. His parents are NUTS! Your wife with her drinking and you with your belief that this is somehow going to magically work out if you keep spinning reality to try to make everything look OK and get a bunch of strangers from the Internet to take your side.
I was a lot like him. Very shy, very little interaction with other people (I was constantly terrified of doing or saying the wrong thing), hiding in fantasy (mine was books rather than games). But I was quiet, generally well behaved (I was too afraid not to be) got good grades, so on the surface everything was "fine" because I didn't make any waves.
Yes you have us for support (I abhor the idea of "taking sides" because of how I grew up), but who does your son have? Two parents who are using him like a rope in their marriage tug of war.
None of that was intended to be harsh, and I know that you're new to all this. Good luck.
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Sigh....
I know that breaking up a marriage seems awful. I stayed for years and years beyond what I should have for that same reason. Thing is, kids have an entire thought process going on about all of this that you cannot even touch on. I hope your child is in counseling, mine are. It has helped them very very much, it has helped me too. I communicate so much better with my kids now, and they are much more open with me.
I think she is trying to manipulate things to use as evidence against you in the future. She may have it planned, she may not, who knows. I have years worth of documentation that I kept during my marriage because I knew it could not last forever. I also knew if my X was going to try to fight me for custody, I would need to prove what I was saying. That being said, I am not the addict, I was not using it for manipulation, it is just cold, hard facts. And I would NEVER show anything to my children. Nor do I speak about their father in a negative way at all to them.
I am so sorry you are having to deal with all of this. I hope you are putting plans in place to protect you and your son in the future.
XXX
I know that breaking up a marriage seems awful. I stayed for years and years beyond what I should have for that same reason. Thing is, kids have an entire thought process going on about all of this that you cannot even touch on. I hope your child is in counseling, mine are. It has helped them very very much, it has helped me too. I communicate so much better with my kids now, and they are much more open with me.
I think she is trying to manipulate things to use as evidence against you in the future. She may have it planned, she may not, who knows. I have years worth of documentation that I kept during my marriage because I knew it could not last forever. I also knew if my X was going to try to fight me for custody, I would need to prove what I was saying. That being said, I am not the addict, I was not using it for manipulation, it is just cold, hard facts. And I would NEVER show anything to my children. Nor do I speak about their father in a negative way at all to them.
I am so sorry you are having to deal with all of this. I hope you are putting plans in place to protect you and your son in the future.
XXX
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I think there's a difference between involving your son in the arguments you're having with his mother, on the one hand, and educating your son about his mother's alcoholism, on the other. And I think that's at the heart of the divide you're perceiving in the advice you're getting. My read of this (and I've read the whole thread now) is that generally posters on here tend to encourage parents to provide age-appropriate guidance about alcoholism to their children, and that generally posters here also recommend avoiding putting children in the middle of marital arguments. It's unfortunate that your wife talks badly about you to your son, but trying to refute the nasty things his Mom says only puts him in the middle of the argument. If you want him to perceive you as a good father, the best thing you can do is make every effort to be a good father. One thing that might really help you to be the best father you can be is to seek help for yourself. You could set a good example for your son by going to counseling, going to Al-Anon, and showing him that there's no shame in reaching out for help when help is needed, and maybe he will learn that the best thing is not to clam up. And by all means, explain to him that his mother is an alcoholic and that if he wants to go to Alateen, you think he might find it a good place to get some support. This will be more persuasive if you are already seeking help for yourself and can share with him some of what you've learned. Offering him a safe place to talk to his peers in Alateen is not the same as putting him in the middle of your fights with his mom (and right now talking to you is not a neutral, supportive space for him, as he no doubt realizes you are upset by the things his Mom says.) I can tell that you're trying very hard to do the right thing. I wish you luck!
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Exactly. You seem to equate educating your son about his mother's alcoholism, and offering him help for coping with the fallout from it, with "badmouthing" his mother or turning him against her. Educating him about it can actually increase his compassion for her. Nobody WANTS to be an alcoholic. It's a horrible disease that causes suffering for everyone close to it--not least, the alcoholic herself. It doesn't mean her antics/abuse are excusable, but it can make some of it more understandable. Moreover, if he is in Alateen, he has a safe place to talk about his feelings about the whole dynamic--you, her, the family. He doesn't have to "take sides."
Sounds like the kiddo can use all the help/support he can get--and you aren't necessarily in the best position right now to be the sole (or maybe even the primary) source of that.
Sounds like the kiddo can use all the help/support he can get--and you aren't necessarily in the best position right now to be the sole (or maybe even the primary) source of that.
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Wow, four insightful responses, all with enough for me to ponder deeply and at great length. Thank goodness its a weekend and my son has a buddy coming over. LexieCat, ladyscribbler hopeful4 - so grateful for your hanging in here with me and your incredible insight and candor. jjj111, many many thanks for reading this whole thread (wow) and offering some additional input.
Before saying any more here, much to ponder and sleep on.
Before saying any more here, much to ponder and sleep on.
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omg
OMG
!! OMG !!
I JUST SPENT AN HOUR POURING MY HEART OUT HERE AND IT DIDN'T POST. THE ONE TIME I NEGLECTED TO SAVE ELSEWHERE JUST IN CASE, AND ITS ALL GONE.
NO TIME TO TRY AND RECOUNT ALL I DISCLOSED.
OMG....
OMG
!! OMG !!
I JUST SPENT AN HOUR POURING MY HEART OUT HERE AND IT DIDN'T POST. THE ONE TIME I NEGLECTED TO SAVE ELSEWHERE JUST IN CASE, AND ITS ALL GONE.
NO TIME TO TRY AND RECOUNT ALL I DISCLOSED.
OMG....
Not waving, but drowning
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Hi Bob,
Read the entire thread and had a few thoughts. You seem very articulate and thoughtful, and like you are taking on board the variety of opinions being shared. For that, I salute you!
I have some personal experience with these issues, both as a child of an alcoholic, and as a parent who had to divorce a spouse with mental issues (not an A) and ended up single parenting a son.
1) Don't think about what will be best for your son tomorrow. Obviously a divorce will be an upset to his immediate life (and yours), and if asked I'm sure he'd say he doesn't want that. In the short term no doubt it is easier for both of you if there isn't a separation or divorce.
Instead, think about him as a 25 year-old. Will having had one parent speak the truth and act on it give him courage to do the same? Or if you stay in a marriage with these issues, will that be what he looks for for himself?
I can say, looking back, that my divorce is one of the reasons my son is such a great person. If I had stayed, my presence would have been an endorsement of a bad marriage and sick relationship.
2) If you even think you may ever want to divorce please be very careful about what you say, do and put in print. Texts, emails, phone calls can all be used against you and distorted. Be circumspect in your actions. Think how something you do can be twisted. You must rise above the actions you'd like to take, which may be momentarily more gratifying. (But do keep notes of her actions which are problematic, and be accurate with dates and times).
3) I'm not sure if it is possible, but is there a school counselor, or a therapist your son could talk with? I agree that he probably won't open up to you. Kids are usually wary (and rightly so) about choosing sides. My father tried to persuade me my mom was mentally ill--and he was the alcoholic! It would have been nice to have a confidential place to discuss this with a safe adult.
4) Looking back on things you've posted here may be useful over time. Often when folks first post they aren't ready to take action. Things aren't "bad" enough yet. They don't want to upset the status quo. And then later they return. The posts are a good benchmark for how things may decline, and remind you of how long the problem has been evident.
5) The male-female dynamic may make it more difficult for you to see how bad things are. I know other posters have mentioned this, but it bears repeating. My brother recently divorced (but only after the family staged an intervention) from a wife who was verbally abusing him. I know, sounds strange. But abuse doesn't have to be physical. Threats such as the ones your wife have made about showing things to your son are real, and have damaging effects on you and your ability to make choices. They may erode your ability to act, over time. Please do not discount this!!
6) Parental alienation is a real thing. One parent trying to turn a child against the other is looked on quite harshly by judges. So do keep records if you feel your wife is doing this sort of thing. It may be ammunition if the situation becomes worse and you need it.
Overall, good for you for posting, and thinking this through.
These situations, especially for the spouse who isn't self-medicating, are heart wrenching. But ignoring them, or minimizing them, doesn't make them go away.
Danae
Read the entire thread and had a few thoughts. You seem very articulate and thoughtful, and like you are taking on board the variety of opinions being shared. For that, I salute you!
I have some personal experience with these issues, both as a child of an alcoholic, and as a parent who had to divorce a spouse with mental issues (not an A) and ended up single parenting a son.
1) Don't think about what will be best for your son tomorrow. Obviously a divorce will be an upset to his immediate life (and yours), and if asked I'm sure he'd say he doesn't want that. In the short term no doubt it is easier for both of you if there isn't a separation or divorce.
Instead, think about him as a 25 year-old. Will having had one parent speak the truth and act on it give him courage to do the same? Or if you stay in a marriage with these issues, will that be what he looks for for himself?
I can say, looking back, that my divorce is one of the reasons my son is such a great person. If I had stayed, my presence would have been an endorsement of a bad marriage and sick relationship.
2) If you even think you may ever want to divorce please be very careful about what you say, do and put in print. Texts, emails, phone calls can all be used against you and distorted. Be circumspect in your actions. Think how something you do can be twisted. You must rise above the actions you'd like to take, which may be momentarily more gratifying. (But do keep notes of her actions which are problematic, and be accurate with dates and times).
3) I'm not sure if it is possible, but is there a school counselor, or a therapist your son could talk with? I agree that he probably won't open up to you. Kids are usually wary (and rightly so) about choosing sides. My father tried to persuade me my mom was mentally ill--and he was the alcoholic! It would have been nice to have a confidential place to discuss this with a safe adult.
4) Looking back on things you've posted here may be useful over time. Often when folks first post they aren't ready to take action. Things aren't "bad" enough yet. They don't want to upset the status quo. And then later they return. The posts are a good benchmark for how things may decline, and remind you of how long the problem has been evident.
5) The male-female dynamic may make it more difficult for you to see how bad things are. I know other posters have mentioned this, but it bears repeating. My brother recently divorced (but only after the family staged an intervention) from a wife who was verbally abusing him. I know, sounds strange. But abuse doesn't have to be physical. Threats such as the ones your wife have made about showing things to your son are real, and have damaging effects on you and your ability to make choices. They may erode your ability to act, over time. Please do not discount this!!
6) Parental alienation is a real thing. One parent trying to turn a child against the other is looked on quite harshly by judges. So do keep records if you feel your wife is doing this sort of thing. It may be ammunition if the situation becomes worse and you need it.
Overall, good for you for posting, and thinking this through.
These situations, especially for the spouse who isn't self-medicating, are heart wrenching. But ignoring them, or minimizing them, doesn't make them go away.
Danae
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,254
Originally Posted by LexieCat
.......
There ARE some people who are simply "hard drinkers" but not alcoholics. When they have a good reason to quit or cut down they do. No probs. But alcoholics obsess about alcohol, and find it difficult or impossible to quit once they've started. Most of them will rationalize their drinking as a "lifestyle choice." That's because it's to scary to think about having to admit that their lives have become unmanageable--because that means they might have to QUIT. And think of themselves as ALCOHOLICS--someone who ISN'T NORMAL. All of that is very scary. Or so it seems. Once I admitted the true nature of my problem and accepted my alcoholism, it was a huge burden off me. I had a lot of work to do, but at least I was no longer hiding from the problem or trying to "fight" it.
The alkie here complains the bars & alcohol aren't as cheap as where he moved from frequently talking about how they miss their old bars/haunts & prices. Even there they seemed to have little problem drinking themselves into the poor house.
I still have problems with enablers writing off those with an obvious problem as hard drinkers or my favorite-they're just having fun. Sorry, middle aged gray haired adults being drop dead, staggering, slushy drunks in front of family or in public settings is not acceptable. Especially if it is known they've had documented problems in the past.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by biminiblue
lol. I hate that. I don't know why the site does that - it's supah annoying.
I've gotten in the habit of clicking Ctrl + C before I post here.
I'll answer anyway.
Good job. Keep it up
I've gotten in the habit of clicking Ctrl + C before I post here.
I'll answer anyway.
Good job. Keep it up
Ha!... no.
"Control C". Mac "copy" function? I was copying and then pasting back if text disappeared but forgot this time.
Naturally this last deleted post was my most lucid, profound, and amazing commentary of all (okay, maybe not, but it was long and had some useful info for me and my 'helpers' here to advance my cause, so to speak.
Oh well, thx for the levity and while I am here, thx to those who posted since my "OMG's". I even have a new numbered list to add to my... well... list! All crowding into my head, competing for space and awaiting sorting/analysis. Getting a bit punchy here - its late... or the alcohol deprivation!
I know I'll be back again soon, but please wish me luck/prayers for the coming week. Death in the family (in-law) bringing in some company, wife's birthday (as if Mother's Day so soon wasn't 'bad' enough!!!) during all this, and in-laws visiting - plus some other lovely surprises. Did I mention I was on a crash diet to lose 25-30# over the next 2 months in addition to stopping ALL alcohol intake? Thank God I have some "stress pills"!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
I have two seemingly wise bits of wisdom and advice rolling around in my head right now. Okay. lots more than that, but as for actions regarding my son, one conflict causing 'analysis paralysis' is with me in particular.
One poster said,
"Actions speak louder than words and you're doing a fine job portraying yourself to your son. Unless he asks you specific questions I would not weigh him down with thoughts that could put him into a negative space about his parents (lying, alcohol, abuse). Honestly children are extremely perceptive and he probably knows deep down that what his mother said doesn't match your actions. Even if he doesn't pick up on it, keeping your side clean will eventually pay off. He may ask certain questions when he is older to clarify the situation. It is irritating because you just want him to know the truth! It is a hard space to be in. Although I think your doing a great job! I hope I wasn't too blunt with my point, but I feel very strongly after being raised in a very supportive family and watching my nephews grow up with an addict mother. Your child might even ask why you didn't tell him before when he finds out. Just let him know that you wanted him to have a childhood and not grow up too fast."
Another said,
"the damage is being done" (lost cut/paste so verbatim) and that I need to give my son a way of putting Mom's behavior in perspective, etc...
After reading the latter and others similar to it, I have to say that as much sense as it makes, I think it makes sense more from the perspective of Mom going nuts all the time. Well, Mom "goes nuts" once in a great while, checks in and out in evenings (is scarce or sometimes hyper-involved), and otherwise her demeanor (like it or not) is not terribly erratic.
I am leaning toward "slow and cautious". I feel like making my wife's drinking a focal point in our lives might cause an undue downer environment. Lots of reasons but I inconveniently but quickly need to depart right now - - - (to be continued).
One poster said,
"Actions speak louder than words and you're doing a fine job portraying yourself to your son. Unless he asks you specific questions I would not weigh him down with thoughts that could put him into a negative space about his parents (lying, alcohol, abuse). Honestly children are extremely perceptive and he probably knows deep down that what his mother said doesn't match your actions. Even if he doesn't pick up on it, keeping your side clean will eventually pay off. He may ask certain questions when he is older to clarify the situation. It is irritating because you just want him to know the truth! It is a hard space to be in. Although I think your doing a great job! I hope I wasn't too blunt with my point, but I feel very strongly after being raised in a very supportive family and watching my nephews grow up with an addict mother. Your child might even ask why you didn't tell him before when he finds out. Just let him know that you wanted him to have a childhood and not grow up too fast."
Another said,
"the damage is being done" (lost cut/paste so verbatim) and that I need to give my son a way of putting Mom's behavior in perspective, etc...
After reading the latter and others similar to it, I have to say that as much sense as it makes, I think it makes sense more from the perspective of Mom going nuts all the time. Well, Mom "goes nuts" once in a great while, checks in and out in evenings (is scarce or sometimes hyper-involved), and otherwise her demeanor (like it or not) is not terribly erratic.
I am leaning toward "slow and cautious". I feel like making my wife's drinking a focal point in our lives might cause an undue downer environment. Lots of reasons but I inconveniently but quickly need to depart right now - - - (to be continued).
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