FireSprite

Hi Bob, you've gotten really amazing advice already so I don't want to step in & repeat stuff.

Reading the above quoted section from one of your posts put me in mind of 2 classic threads on this forum: The Chicken & The Frog. If you haven't read them yet, you might get a lot out of them:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...you-dee74.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-chick-en.html

TheBob1

Great analogies (minus the social agenda/lecture inserted near the end of "Frog").

Thanks for sharing. Definite keepers and spot-on re. the quote you pulled from my dialogue.

TheBob1

For all the thoughtful souls who have been so kind as to offer me advice and well wishes, as well as those who may be here in silence, here is an update as many of you have requested:

Nothing earth shattering, but it felt good to unload and to get some resources I will get in touch with tomorrow. Am hoping the local shelter will have someone who knows about "reverse" abuse, false allegations and the like. Will see how to protect myself legally from this as well. Wife is pissed that I have been so quiet and solemn this week, or as she puts it, "In a weird mood". Yeah whatever honey...

The most important victim in this, my son, id feeling stressed about it but stared hatefully at me for a couple minutes when me and "Mom" started to exchange some words. God, it is so hard to stay silent... My blood boils. I have to learn how to leave the room - especially when she shouts at me as I go with as provocative and insult or accusations as possible.

I'm in counselor's 1st available time slot Monday and she gave me extra time today - even with a client waiting. I am in knots, which doesn't help me deal effectively with any of this, not that there is a prescribed "effective" method.

Here's a 'fun' thought, speaking of needing restraint: Sunday is MOTHER'S DAY. O - - M - - G ! (and I don't just say that about anything - h aha). But really, its hard enough to not explode in anger at the sight of this woman. How on earth could I pretend to want to make this person happy on "her" day?????????? "Thank you for giving me a beautiful son so we could wreck his life before it even gets started". Hmm, maybe I could find better words. How about a shoebox with the note, "I followed our dog for 2 hours to get this fresh for you". No? I'll keep trying then.

***Sense of humor getting a little warped - - TGTF! ***

healthyagain

It is great that you are reaching out and looking for resources. Hope you find out more tomorrow! And the best feeling is when you know that you are not alone in all this. There are people who understand you and who will support you.
Now about your blood boiling. Please understand that she might try to make you mad on purpose. Do not give her that pleasure. My husband feeds on my negative reactions. They justify his reactions. This is what alcoholics do sometimes. They bait you into fights, and they know exactly which button to push. Stay solemn, my friend. Act like the Queen of England. It does not matter. Do not do anything or say anything you might regret later.
PS
If you really have to, pretend that you are not feeling well (and it is not even a lie, she does make you feel sick, soooo . . .)

LexieCat

Glad you're hooking up with some resources. Some of what you hear may be conflicting. Remember, no major decisions have to be made immediately. Let things sink in, digest, roll around in your head what will ultimately be best for you and your son.

Now, Mothers Day. I really pretty much hate these "mandatory" holidays that do nothing more than add an "obligation" to do certain things. That said, she IS your son's mom. Maybe discuss with your son what he'd like to do for her. Maybe he wants to take her out for brunch or something. Keep it low key, but consider it as something you're doing for your son, not for her.

ladyscribbler

I agree with all of this. I know you feel like you have to do something RIGHT NOW, but that pressure is internal and it isn't real. Your frustrations have been building for years. You've had a couple of "aha" moments, but that doesn't mean your path is entirely illuminated yet.
As for Mother's Day, your son is old enough to take the lead. Offer to take him out to at least get her a card or some flowers. He can pay for them. You may also get an opportunity to start a dialogue with him. It sounds like your wife is already putting pressure on him to "choose sides" (my dad did the same thing, divide and conquer is a common tactic of alcoholics to protect their drinking and maintain the status quo, which sadly often means pitting the children against the sober parent).
If you have the opportunity, let him know that you and mom both love him and want what's best for him. Your wife is a very sick woman, but she's not a monster, and blaming and shaming her, while temporarily satisfying, will ultimately backfire.

TheBob1

Lady, Lexie, Healthy - - -

OKay, this just isn't fair - - its like you know me and what I am thinking and doing. You haven't seen or been through this before, have you? (haha)

Bless you for being here and speaking up. Words can't describe my gratitude . . .

LexieCat

Nope, just a random shot in the dark.

healthyagain

We kinda have these mind-reading skills. And yes involving your son for Mother's Day and buying some flowers and a card is a great gesture. And wise on so many levels.


I'm getting ready to move out these days, so my defensive reaction is playing dead, like a possum, and not making any waves. But what the ladies suggested above is much more mature and nicer.

redatlanta

Hi and sorry for what you are going through. Here is a link to a recent post - this is a very long post that started last year. If you will look on page 9 I believe it will pick up in April of this year. This male member here at SR was also accused falsely of Domestic Violence among some other horrible things by his wife.

Sometimes it helps to know you aren't the only one dealing with this kind of malicious, vindictive BS and that the Courts can recognize that.

I do think you need to consult an attorney ASAP. Doesn't mean you have to leave if you don't want to but will help you navigate IF she does accuse you of DV.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...son-car-9.html

TheBob1

BIG thanks, redatlanta. I'm on it.

(looking at link title, I am already feeling "lucky" by comparison.)

hopeful4

I am so glad for all you are doing. I know it's a really hard process. I can tell you as time goes on and you come to more of an acceptance of who she is, the anger does get better for you. You will come to realize it hurts one person, you.

Your doing all the right things. It's not surprising she thinks you are in a weird mood. I know it messed w/my X's head when my attitude changed. I got a kick out of that LOL.

Hugs to you. Keep on working on you, that is the most important thing I learned. Sort of like the air mask on the plane, put it on yourself first so you can help others, ie, your son. Actions speak much louder than words, and your son will see that in time.

Many hugs to you. Keep up the good work!

TheBob1

After misreading your point of reference and reading a lot of the "preamble" to what you wanted me to see, I did find the point of the thread that showed all too well the potential horrors of false accusations. GIves real teeth to your advice of getting legal input. POINT WELL TAKEN.

Need to say here, lest I drum up or imply too much drama, that after all these years, I just don't see my wife doing something like that, but people do change, don't they? We've been together almost 20 years and I've never had the slightest thought she had "sinister" in her blood... but I never thought she would hint at blackmail/extortion (or whatever name you put to 'manipulation via threat of harmful lies') either. No history of erratic behavior, addictions, etc... both having "life resumes" that could put a reader to sleep in 60 seconds flat. Pretty much drama-free here. But...

Nothing like a real-life tale of horror to make me wonder - or be aware of - what someone COULD be capable of, no matter how unlikely I may think it to be.

Doesn't mean sh-- can't happen - and I am taking steps to get the proper advice after the recommendations here - but I don't want to cause the proverbial self-fulfilling prophesy either.

Since I am most impatient once I decide to attack a problem, anyone have advice for how much I say to my wife going fwd.? I KNOW she wants to just pretend nothing happened and go back to just coping with the doldrums of day to day life. I suppose I await further instructions (advice) from counsel may be good for now. I am chomping at the bit to ask just how much she "remembers" saying and just exactly how we, as a couple, might deal with that and the one who is suffering from it most - that 13 year old with his head buried in the laptop or TV. Antagonistic? With her, yes. So I bring it up whenever I can see the local expert on whose waiting list we sit? (looking for the 'primal scream therapy' emoticon...)

TheBob1

Don't want this to get old, but...

Mega thanks! (and the oxygen mask analogy was dead-on perfect).

You know, I did feel a smirk coming on when she started looking all insecure and asking about my demeanor. Isn't there a quip that goes something like, "Smile! Make people wonder what you are up to."?

Hanging tough for the pending excitement here (Mother's Day - woohoo!)

LexieCat

Bob, one of the things you will need to learn if you are going to continue sharing a household with your wife is to detach. And to set good boundaries.

Let me explain, because those concepts are often misunderstood. Detachment doesn't mean ignoring someone or giving them the silent treatment. It means detaching emotionally from their behavior. You walk away from provocation. You don't argue with someone who is drunk. You don't take the quacking personally. You don't bother "correcting" them when they make insane statements. You learn to use neutral responses such as, "Oh, really?" "I'm sorry you feel that way." "Hm, I'll have to think about that." "Let's talk about this later." The point is not to ENGAGE with the crazy.

Boundaries are often misunderstood as "rules" for the alcoholic. They aren't. Boundaries are for YOU, not for her. A boundary might be, "I'm not going to be with a drunk in public." She is free to drink her brains out at a party. YOU are free to leave, and by doing so, you are enforcing your own boundary. It isn't intended to "punish" the alcoholic for bad behavior, it is to protect YOU from specific effects of her drinking. Another boundary might be that you aren't going to be sucked into arguments with her when she's drinking. You enforce that boundary by refusing to do it, whatever she says.

It's kind of tricky in the beginning, but if you practice that sort of thing you will get much better at it and it can spare you some of the more unpleasant effects of living with an alcoholic. I'm not suggesting these are a good long-term solution, but they can make life more bearable while you are considering what your next move should be.

TheBob1

PS - I can't tell if these posts are referencing those to whom I am responding -- but you know who you are, so that's what natters most . . . . .

But I just came back a moment to express how grateful I am to have found this place and the outstanding people who have... who ARE helping me start this seemingly insurmountable and frankly unpleasant journey. I hope and pray your kindness comes back to you in every way possible.

TheBob1

Lexie - How boringly sensible and pragmatic!

Words to live by, all kidding aside. Points taken too. I only wish I had come here a few YEARS ago, as I am finding as many faults in my own behaviors as I have referenced about my wife, e.g. - I could have handled a lot of this much better than I have. But I am here now...

TheBob1

'morning. I chickened out of hitting the first al-anon mtg. yesterday - turned around halfway there and read everyone's input here instead (brought laptop in car). Just not "feeling it" and a little worn out and fuzzy. Son was home sick from school too. Diarrhea. Worry affects his gut - I know this; wonder if that is the cause this time. Would not be surprised.
Made an appt. w/ an atty. who has also been a social worker - ref'd by a counselor I have seen a few times over 2-3 years. (Is it normal to pay $275 for an initial legal consultation???). After that call, I lost my desire to try out a first al-anon mtg.

I also chickened out of calling the shelter, realizing how many people my wife and I know that probably volunteer there - - this after the embarrassing episode of having to explain to a stranger at the atty's ofc why I wanted to make an appt. Questions like "name of the opposing party" and other such questions with inherent implications made me feel ill. Remember, I am trying not to create a self-fufiling prophesy.

As I said, I was kinda tired and foggy. Only realized later I could simply call a shelter in another town (duh). As for the atty., I have an appt., but am unsure after the rather cold "intake interview". This is all so new and feels slimy to me. But, I'll do what I must - - I'm just venting.

I MADE my son spend a little time with me yesterday - went out for Thai pick-up. He wanted to stay home (as he does a lot these days). We live in a rural area, so its a 30 min round trip. He won't (ever?) speak of parent issues that were thrust in front of him - and I didn't ask this time. We had a nice ride and things seemed to normalize with us again - I think. He asked me to join him in the basement later for gaming (this is a sign I am 'back in'). But I woke up a little sad when I thought of something he said before bedtime last night:

He asked me to help him wake our family dog (best dog on planet earth, no offense to other dog owners - LOL), and call him into his bedroom to be there while he went to sleep. I did, and sat in the dark room a while with the dog and my son. Son spoke up and said that it was "just so nice" to have the dog there, hearing him breathe and feeling his love nearby. It kinda hit me this morning and I awoke almost in tears. I had wanted to say, "Son, you know I love you too", but for some reason I didn't. Didn't want to make it about ME and I think he may have seen it that way if I had piped up.

Dogs quietly and unconditionally give love. I suppose that is what he needs sometimes; not a parent squawking about it to him or making him engage where he feels pressure to respond in like-kind. Just a quiet presence. Probably going on when he asks me to join him in a room but then he just wants to play games online. "Just be here Dad", he is probably 'saying'. Lessons...

Credit one to Mom here actually - she insisted we get a dog about 5 years ago not long after our last pet had died (we've had a couple dogs and cats). She argued it would be good for our son (she wanted one too). I love dogs but was enjoying the freedom of not having pets to look after and our son being out of the house during the day. Well, the floppy-eared ball-o-love can really make some things more difficult, but he makes up for it by gushing affection at us every waking moment.

Overcast Saturday. Headed to play xbox with my boy (and maybe plan something for mother's day - gag). Holding pattern for now - hoping for a peaceful weekend.

Refiner

Bob you crack me up!!! I'm glad your boy is letting you back in and you are enjoying each other's presence. And yes, dogs do TOTALLY rock!!'

LexieCat

Different lawyers have different policies for initial consultations. Some charge, and some offer a free consult.

Lawyers are NOT "counselors" (even though they are referred to that way--they counsel you on LEGAL issues, not emotional ones, not "is this marriage worth saving"). Trust me, a highly qualified therapist is a LOT cheaper by the hour than most lawyers. So don't expect a warm and fuzzy, nurturing experience. They have to elicit the name of the "opposing party" due to conflict of interest issues. If you have consulted with them, she can't, and vice versa.

With the lawyers, this is a fact-finding mission, that's all. You want to know how a case will proceed through the system, what the likelihood is of having to pay spousal support, the possibilities in terms of property division, how you can protect yourself from irresponsible actions by your wife (drunk driving, running up credit card bills, cleaning out the joint accounts), how child custody/visitation is normally viewed/handled in your jurisdiction, etc. Knowledge is power, and the more you know about how things MIGHT shake out in a divorce, the better you can plan in the event it should come to that.

Anything you communicate to the attorney's office, or to an advocate, will be held to be confidential. If you have any concerns about the shelter, just ask. Because information getting out could be quite literally fatal to some shelter clients, information is guarded very carefully.

There is nothing "slimy" about protecting yourself legally, physically, emotionally, or financially. I don't get the sense that you are the kind of guy out to screw his wife over in a divorce. I get the sense that you are a fair person and have no desire to leave her without resources or a fair share of what you own jointly. I get the sense you don't want to destroy her relationship with your son.

So. Maybe next week you will feel more up to things. And with Al-Anon, no worries there. You don't HAVE to say anything. You can sit there and just listen. It's perfectly acceptable, even if they are sharing around the room, to just say, "I'm just here to listen today."