Narcissistic Entitlement
To thine own self be true.
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Originally Posted by Buffalo66 
He is so controlling and narcissistic that he has panic attacks and fearful episodes when things are not within his control. Narcissism in a pathological sense arises oout of a severe lack of sense of self. For my exAH this comes out of a terribly abusive and dysfunctional childhood.
Its as if he is extrememly insecure, and he compensates.
Its as if he is extrememly insecure, and he compensates.
NO excuse, though.
I came from a terirbly abusive and dysfunctional FOO, also.
I am not a narcissist.
I came from a terirbly abusive and dysfunctional FOO, also.
I am not a narcissist.
But this leads to the question of why we as CoDependents are drawn to such narcissitic folks.
There is much to be read about how these two fit together.
For myself, t has been about changing my tapes and my plugs to not fit into that dance anymore.
I do not want to attract yet another Narcissist in sheeps clothing, and that condition is in no way exclusive to addicts.
Thank you for posting Buffalo66, I REALLY needed to read your words today.
To thine own self be true.
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Originally Posted by Hypatia
What I find interesting is the split between professional scientists/doctors/researchers and the public. A majority of professionals view the disease concept of alcoholism as only one of many unproven theories. Meanwhile, the majority of the American public believe in the disease concept and accept it as a fact rather than as a hypothesis still being researched.
The problem is that addiction does not behave like a disease. There has not yet been any specific gene found that can be pointed at to say "this child is almost certain to develop the disease." There is no test that can be done to diagnose the disease either. Even a post-mortem examination is not able to show specific evidence pointing to the "disease" of alcoholism.
The problem inherent in classifying alcoholism as a disease becomes easier to show when we use the example of cigarette smoking. How many people view smoking as a disease?
So we either have to change the medical definition of "disease", or change the popular definition of alcoholism. Otherwise the split in opinion between the public, (which includes self-help groups), and the professionals will continue.
The problem is that addiction does not behave like a disease. There has not yet been any specific gene found that can be pointed at to say "this child is almost certain to develop the disease." There is no test that can be done to diagnose the disease either. Even a post-mortem examination is not able to show specific evidence pointing to the "disease" of alcoholism.
The problem inherent in classifying alcoholism as a disease becomes easier to show when we use the example of cigarette smoking. How many people view smoking as a disease?
So we either have to change the medical definition of "disease", or change the popular definition of alcoholism. Otherwise the split in opinion between the public, (which includes self-help groups), and the professionals will continue.
I personally have found that many people misunderstand the disease concept of alcoholism and use it in their minds and thinking as an excuse for an alcoholic or addict's behavior. They also use it to feel sorry for the alcoholic or addict, and to justify their own caretaking and codependent behavior.
My opinion is, an ass is an ass whether he or she drinks or drugs, or not. To attribute selfish, assinine, or abusive behavior to the drink or the drug, or the disease, is fallacious.
People who cannot stop smoking are addicted to the nicotine. Nicotine changes the brain, just as all other drugs do. Drugs change the neurotransmitter receptor sites in the brain, which keeps the brain addicted to that substance until the owner of that brain can get themselves through the withdrawal long enough for the brain to repair itself. The rest, IMO, is habit, lifestyle, and choices.
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Originally Posted by BothSidesNow
What an incisive thread, L2L. It has started me to thinking out loud.
I wonder if we want to rescue THEM (our adult narcissist partners), because we identify with the "victimhood" we are perceiving them to suffer, because that is what WE suffered as children. .
Does this make any sense?
I wonder if we want to rescue THEM (our adult narcissist partners), because we identify with the "victimhood" we are perceiving them to suffer, because that is what WE suffered as children. .
Does this make any sense?
and we do learn from the behavours of what WE GREW up in....my mom and i where just talking about this the other day....its part of the dysfunction of the FAMILIES
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There are several disease models of alcoholism and scientists have indeed found a genetic link to alcoholism and addiction in general.
Not to mention actual brain damage that can be clearly seen on brain SPECT imaging. Why is easy for us to admit that some people have the mental health disease of bi-polar, or clinical depressions, or post-partum depressions . . . and yet sometimes find the label that addiction is a mental disorder hard to take? Is it because drinking is so "normal". Most people do it without the ramifications?
Personally, I think most people who have lived with someone through the 3rd and 4th stage of addiction, have zero doubts that the person suffering with addiction has a mental disease. In the earlier stages it is perhaps not easy to see.
Does that justify their behavior of not getting the treatment they need? No. Does it justify their continuing to drink? No. Does it help explain the ongoing internal battle they live with? Yes.
Look at anorexia, has anyone ever studied that? Humans become grossly underweight and still look in the mirror and see only fat. Do we think at this point that starving themselves literally to death is just a choice they're making from a healthy, normal brain?
And when we say To attribute selfish, assinine, or abusive behavior to the drink or the drug, or the disease, is fallacious. I have to wonder at this. Has everyone here never been drunk and never done anything really assinine while drinking? Or selfish? I find that hard to believe. I have!
We all change when we over consume the chemical of alcohol. Right? Isn't that almost the very definition of being drunk?
drunk
[druhngk] Show IPA
adjective
1.
being in a temporary state in which one's physical and mental faculties are impaired by an excess of alcoholic drink; intoxicated:
Not to mention actual brain damage that can be clearly seen on brain SPECT imaging. Why is easy for us to admit that some people have the mental health disease of bi-polar, or clinical depressions, or post-partum depressions . . . and yet sometimes find the label that addiction is a mental disorder hard to take? Is it because drinking is so "normal". Most people do it without the ramifications?
Personally, I think most people who have lived with someone through the 3rd and 4th stage of addiction, have zero doubts that the person suffering with addiction has a mental disease. In the earlier stages it is perhaps not easy to see.
Does that justify their behavior of not getting the treatment they need? No. Does it justify their continuing to drink? No. Does it help explain the ongoing internal battle they live with? Yes.
Look at anorexia, has anyone ever studied that? Humans become grossly underweight and still look in the mirror and see only fat. Do we think at this point that starving themselves literally to death is just a choice they're making from a healthy, normal brain?
And when we say To attribute selfish, assinine, or abusive behavior to the drink or the drug, or the disease, is fallacious. I have to wonder at this. Has everyone here never been drunk and never done anything really assinine while drinking? Or selfish? I find that hard to believe. I have!
We all change when we over consume the chemical of alcohol. Right? Isn't that almost the very definition of being drunk?
drunk
[druhngk] Show IPA
adjective
1.
being in a temporary state in which one's physical and mental faculties are impaired by an excess of alcoholic drink; intoxicated:
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First, Learn2Live, I was cracking uo when I read your line:
This is such an interesting and thought-provoking thread. Thanks!
When I was growing up, they showed us these reels of 8mm film about drinking and its effects on driving and the brain. They took one of these freshly dead alcoholic's brain and sliced it like a loaf of bread. They did the same to a normal brain. The "wet brain" was so systemically different than the healthy brain. Holes, mushy parts and blood leaking lightly everywhere. None of that in the healthy brain. The "disease" was obvious even to this third grader! No different than seeing cancerous skin and healthy skin. They showed us film about that too, probably sponsored by Coppertone! Right.
Coppertone girl advert.jpg
Genetics plays a part (but not in all alcoholics). Genes have been identified but what triggers them in some people (STB alcoholics) and not in others is still being researched. The same goes for recovery.
Not all Narcissists are alcoholics/addicts or cigarette smokers.
Not all alcoholics/addicts or cigarette smokers are Narcissists (or narcissistic). But a high percentage of alcoholics/addicts are. There is no demand for a Big Book with a whole self-centeredness section for cigarette smokers, is there?!
[That] would require some effort on his part, and he can't do effort.
When I was growing up, they showed us these reels of 8mm film about drinking and its effects on driving and the brain. They took one of these freshly dead alcoholic's brain and sliced it like a loaf of bread. They did the same to a normal brain. The "wet brain" was so systemically different than the healthy brain. Holes, mushy parts and blood leaking lightly everywhere. None of that in the healthy brain. The "disease" was obvious even to this third grader! No different than seeing cancerous skin and healthy skin. They showed us film about that too, probably sponsored by Coppertone! Right.
Coppertone girl advert.jpg
Genetics plays a part (but not in all alcoholics). Genes have been identified but what triggers them in some people (STB alcoholics) and not in others is still being researched. The same goes for recovery.
Not all Narcissists are alcoholics/addicts or cigarette smokers.
Not all alcoholics/addicts or cigarette smokers are Narcissists (or narcissistic). But a high percentage of alcoholics/addicts are. There is no demand for a Big Book with a whole self-centeredness section for cigarette smokers, is there?!
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I've been thinking about this debate - is it a disease or isn't it.
Does it really matter?
The medical profession, scientists across the globe don't even have all the answers after all this time and effort.
The bottom line is that some people have cravings that they cannot control. Cravings and additions that destroy their lives. Whether it's alcohol, food, drugs, cigarettes, gambling, shopping and on and on and on.
Look at all the over-weight people in America?! Is addiction narcissistic? Probably, yes. But it comes from an incredibly deep well of pain. Most people don't really want to hurt themselves and die from the horrors of an addiction.
Can't that be enough for us to understand?
Does it really matter?
The medical profession, scientists across the globe don't even have all the answers after all this time and effort.
The bottom line is that some people have cravings that they cannot control. Cravings and additions that destroy their lives. Whether it's alcohol, food, drugs, cigarettes, gambling, shopping and on and on and on.
Look at all the over-weight people in America?! Is addiction narcissistic? Probably, yes. But it comes from an incredibly deep well of pain. Most people don't really want to hurt themselves and die from the horrors of an addiction.
Can't that be enough for us to understand?
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Whether it is viewed as a disease, a disorder, or a lifestyle choice matters a lot.
It matters in terms of what things are covered by health insurance, what kind of research gets more funding, what sorts of hospitals and clinics get built and how they are equipped, the type and length of treatment recommended by doctors, how business like pharma concerns act in order to maximize their profit, how legislation is worded, how the legal system decides incapacity along with resulting jail terms and/or court required treatment, how judges might rule in divorce and custody cases, and how disability insurance decides which claims to pay.
It matters in terms of what things are covered by health insurance, what kind of research gets more funding, what sorts of hospitals and clinics get built and how they are equipped, the type and length of treatment recommended by doctors, how business like pharma concerns act in order to maximize their profit, how legislation is worded, how the legal system decides incapacity along with resulting jail terms and/or court required treatment, how judges might rule in divorce and custody cases, and how disability insurance decides which claims to pay.
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Originally Posted by Hypatia
Whether it is viewed as a disease, a disorder, or a lifestyle choice matters a lot.
It matters in terms of what things are covered by health insurance, what kind of research gets more funding, what sorts of hospitals and clinics get built and how they are equipped, the type and length of treatment recommended by doctors, how business like pharma concerns act in order to maximize their profit, how legislation is worded, how the legal system decides incapacity along with resulting jail terms and/or court required treatment, how judges might rule in divorce and custody cases, and how disability insurance decides which claims to pay.
It matters in terms of what things are covered by health insurance, what kind of research gets more funding, what sorts of hospitals and clinics get built and how they are equipped, the type and length of treatment recommended by doctors, how business like pharma concerns act in order to maximize their profit, how legislation is worded, how the legal system decides incapacity along with resulting jail terms and/or court required treatment, how judges might rule in divorce and custody cases, and how disability insurance decides which claims to pay.
Secondly, the next important thing is what the alcoholic believes and acts upon to treat his condition and while he may not know for a fact whether it is legally a disease he should be aware of the wreckage he creating in his family and society and it is his responsibility to seek out his own path to recovery.
Several years ago I embarked on a journey of discovery about alcoholism and was on top of all the latest research including the brain imaging, and visual stimulation tests as well as drugs being developed to treat addiction.
While my XA became very knowlegable and he actually got directly involved with many of the latest treatment modalities and for significant periods of times achieved sobriety and authentic recovery he always ...always... eventually would pick up a drink and unravel it all.
So... they are two sides of the coin. We can clinically, logically understand and debate the huge subject of addiction and alcoholism and we can even get alcoholics and addicts sober... but at some point they have to fight this battle of the MIND, SPIRIT and BODY all by themselves without anyone, any drug or crutch to force them to sobriety each day.
It is not stopping drinking that is the issue... it is the rare alcoholic that cannot stop drinking... it is the staying stopped and that is a battle that each alcoholic has to fight and find their own way out of addiction.
I have come to the conclusion after living my life continuously with a parent who died from alcohollism, marrying a man who developed a cocaine addiction, my brother being a stone cold alkie and my greatest love of my life is now my XA since Feb of this year...my conclusion is that they simply want to drink. period.
They want to drink more than they want to stay sober and fix all the problems their drinking creates and they are unwilling to do the HARD work that recovery requires every day of their life.
Why that took me a lifetime to figure out I have no idea... I had to give up the fantasy and that had to do with my dad and his miserable life and death.
My opinion... science will not come up with a magic bullet, psychiatrists and psychologists will not suddenly find some new therapy that will make it easy, the drug companies are desperately trying to find some super formula combining baclofen with something else so they can patent it (baclofen is out of patent and "cheap") and definations will not solve the age old problem of addiction and character defects.
Trying everything on the planet for four years including every single drug on the planet via India and other countries the solution that worked for my XA was simply doing the 12 steps every day and a spiritual solution through AA.
Simple but not easy and he chose to drink. It's what they do.
This was just my experience... it gave me strength and hope for MY FUTURE. He has to find his own way out without me helicoptering.
Thanks for reading... it's helps me put my own past in perspective when I share it on the various subjects we discuss on here.
To thine own self be true.
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Location: U.S.A.
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Originally Posted by Titanic
First, Learn2Live, I was cracking uo when I read your line:
This is such an interesting and thought-provoking thread. Thanks!
When I was growing up, they showed us these reels of 8mm film about drinking and its effects on driving and the brain. They took one of these freshly dead alcoholic's brain and sliced it like a loaf of bread. They did the same to a normal brain. The "wet brain" was so systemically different than the healthy brain. Holes, mushy parts and blood leaking lightly everywhere. None of that in the healthy brain. The "disease" was obvious even to this third grader! No different than seeing cancerous skin and healthy skin. They showed us film about that too, probably sponsored by Coppertone! Right.
Genetics plays a part (but not in all alcoholics). Genes have been identified but what triggers them in some people (STB alcoholics) and not in others is still being researched.
Not all Narcissists are alcoholics/addicts or cigarette smokers.
Which I think is what you were saying here?:
Not all alcoholics/addicts or cigarette smokers are Narcissists (or narcissistic). But a high percentage of alcoholics/addicts are. There is no demand for a Big Book with a whole self-centeredness section for cigarette smokers, is there?!
To thine own self be true.
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Join Date: May 2009
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Originally Posted by WishingWell
I've been thinking about this debate - is it a disease or isn't it.
Does it really matter?
The medical profession, scientists across the globe don't even have all the answers after all this time and effort.
The bottom line is that some people have cravings that they cannot control. Cravings and additions that destroy their lives. Whether it's alcohol, food, drugs, cigarettes, gambling, shopping and on and on and on.
Look at all the over-weight people in America?! Is addiction narcissistic? Probably, yes. But it comes from an incredibly deep well of pain. Most people don't really want to hurt themselves and die from the horrors of an addiction.
Can't that be enough for us to understand?
Does it really matter?
The medical profession, scientists across the globe don't even have all the answers after all this time and effort.
The bottom line is that some people have cravings that they cannot control. Cravings and additions that destroy their lives. Whether it's alcohol, food, drugs, cigarettes, gambling, shopping and on and on and on.
Look at all the over-weight people in America?! Is addiction narcissistic? Probably, yes. But it comes from an incredibly deep well of pain. Most people don't really want to hurt themselves and die from the horrors of an addiction.
Can't that be enough for us to understand?
I personally do not care how much pain the alcoholic or addict is in. THEIR pain is THEIR problem. They often use it as an excuse for why they do what they do and for continuing to do what they do. I've heard it all and I can recognize it for what it is when it is coming from sickness...sooner or later.
Most people don't really want to hurt themselves and die from the horrors of an addiction.
To thine own self be true.
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Originally Posted by Hypatia
Whether it is viewed as a disease, a disorder, or a lifestyle choice matters a lot.
It matters in terms of what things are covered by health insurance, what kind of research gets more funding, what sorts of hospitals and clinics get built and how they are equipped, the type and length of treatment recommended by doctors, how business like pharma concerns act in order to maximize their profit, how legislation is worded, how the legal system decides incapacity along with resulting jail terms and/or court required treatment, how judges might rule in divorce and custody cases, and how disability insurance decides which claims to pay.
It matters in terms of what things are covered by health insurance, what kind of research gets more funding, what sorts of hospitals and clinics get built and how they are equipped, the type and length of treatment recommended by doctors, how business like pharma concerns act in order to maximize their profit, how legislation is worded, how the legal system decides incapacity along with resulting jail terms and/or court required treatment, how judges might rule in divorce and custody cases, and how disability insurance decides which claims to pay.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
It is not stopping drinking that is the issue... it is the rare alcoholic that cannot stop drinking... it is the staying stopped and that is a battle that each alcoholic has to fight and find their own way out of addiction.
I have come to the conclusion after living my life continuously with a parent who died from alcohollism, marrying a man who developed a cocaine addiction, my brother being a stone cold alkie and my greatest love of my life is now my XA since Feb of this year...my conclusion is that they simply want to drink. period.
They want to drink more than they want to stay sober and fix all the problems their drinking creates and they are unwilling to do the HARD work that recovery requires every day of their life.
Why that took me a lifetime to figure out I have no idea... I had to give up the fantasy and that had to do with my dad and his miserable life and death.
My opinion... science will not come up with a magic bullet, psychiatrists and psychologists will not suddenly find some new therapy that will make it easy, the drug companies are desperately trying to find some super formula combining baclofen with something else so they can patent it (baclofen is out of patent and "cheap") and definations will not solve the age old problem of addiction and character defects.
Trying everything on the planet for four years including every single drug on the planet via India and other countries the solution that worked for my XA was simply doing the 12 steps every day and a spiritual solution through AA.
Simple but not easy and he chose to drink. It's what they do.
I have come to the conclusion after living my life continuously with a parent who died from alcohollism, marrying a man who developed a cocaine addiction, my brother being a stone cold alkie and my greatest love of my life is now my XA since Feb of this year...my conclusion is that they simply want to drink. period.
They want to drink more than they want to stay sober and fix all the problems their drinking creates and they are unwilling to do the HARD work that recovery requires every day of their life.
Why that took me a lifetime to figure out I have no idea... I had to give up the fantasy and that had to do with my dad and his miserable life and death.
My opinion... science will not come up with a magic bullet, psychiatrists and psychologists will not suddenly find some new therapy that will make it easy, the drug companies are desperately trying to find some super formula combining baclofen with something else so they can patent it (baclofen is out of patent and "cheap") and definations will not solve the age old problem of addiction and character defects.
Trying everything on the planet for four years including every single drug on the planet via India and other countries the solution that worked for my XA was simply doing the 12 steps every day and a spiritual solution through AA.
Simple but not easy and he chose to drink. It's what they do.
This was just my experience... it gave me strength and hope for MY FUTURE. He has to find his own way out without me helicoptering.
Thanks for reading... it's helps me put my own past in perspective when I share it on the various subjects we discuss on here.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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This website is like a public "journal" where we write for ourselves therapeutically and others read it and weigh it... we are trying to claw our way back to being "normies" with normal human responses instead of our warped views that compel us to "fix and rescue".
As I look back on my early posts still in blatent denial and wishful thinking I am amazed at how gentle everyone was with my myopic silly optimism about my own A and our relationship.
Not only was he was terminally unique I was his biggest cheerleader and believer!
I have taken the red pill and come out of the Alcoholic Matrix! Free at last but always having to be vigilent so I do not fall back into the rabbit hole...
As I look back on my early posts still in blatent denial and wishful thinking I am amazed at how gentle everyone was with my myopic silly optimism about my own A and our relationship.
Not only was he was terminally unique I was his biggest cheerleader and believer!
I have taken the red pill and come out of the Alcoholic Matrix! Free at last but always having to be vigilent so I do not fall back into the rabbit hole...
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Of course it matters if addiction is a disease in the big picture. I personally believe that it is. Of course it matters across the world as far as science, medicine, funding. That's a given.
I was referring to this board - does it matter here? People can go around and around debating whether they themselves think it is a "disease" or simply a choice. Either way, the result is the same. That person who in our lives has an addiction. And with that addiction many at this point are not stopping and/or are unable to stop.
Given that - where do WE/I go from here.
Most people don't really want to hurt themselves and die from the horrors of an addiction.
I don't think this is a dangerous assumption, I think it's the truth. People live in a high degree of denial. They deny that they are hurting themselves, they don't want to die from addiction, (unless of course they are suicidal, which is another topic) and feel somewhere in themselves that they will beat it. Read "Catch 22" on this board. Here is a man in the very last stages of addiction, he is dying and in his brain he is going to make it and go live on a boat.
One of the reasons that hitting the bottom - coming to a point of actually dying sends many people into rehab and stopping. They can't run from the truth anymore that it will kill them.
There is not a healthy brain on this planet who wishes to die from the horrific death of addiction. By the time death comes for many addicts they have lost everything.
Different strokes and opinions, which is just life. I do think addiction is a brain disorder, it is a disease - it is called addiction.
People become physically addicted to a chemical substance. For many, to try to stop sends the body into physical detox. One of the most physically, dangerous withdrawals that there is.
I was referring to this board - does it matter here? People can go around and around debating whether they themselves think it is a "disease" or simply a choice. Either way, the result is the same. That person who in our lives has an addiction. And with that addiction many at this point are not stopping and/or are unable to stop.
Given that - where do WE/I go from here.
Most people don't really want to hurt themselves and die from the horrors of an addiction.
I don't think this is a dangerous assumption, I think it's the truth. People live in a high degree of denial. They deny that they are hurting themselves, they don't want to die from addiction, (unless of course they are suicidal, which is another topic) and feel somewhere in themselves that they will beat it. Read "Catch 22" on this board. Here is a man in the very last stages of addiction, he is dying and in his brain he is going to make it and go live on a boat.
One of the reasons that hitting the bottom - coming to a point of actually dying sends many people into rehab and stopping. They can't run from the truth anymore that it will kill them.
There is not a healthy brain on this planet who wishes to die from the horrific death of addiction. By the time death comes for many addicts they have lost everything.
Different strokes and opinions, which is just life. I do think addiction is a brain disorder, it is a disease - it is called addiction.
People become physically addicted to a chemical substance. For many, to try to stop sends the body into physical detox. One of the most physically, dangerous withdrawals that there is.
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Originally Posted by WishingWell
I was referring to this board - does it matter here? People can go around and around debating whether they themselves think it is a "disease" or simply a choice. Either way, the result is the same.
The difference is observed the moment that an addict decides to seek treatment.
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There is more to that sentence >
Either way, the result is the same. That person who in our lives has an addiction. And with that addiction many at this point are not stopping and/or are unable to stop.
Whether they seek treatment or not, the result is the same in that they have an addiction. They will, for most, always have a chemical addiction to this substance.
Another thought about this conversation . . .
Alcoholism's called an addiction for a reason. An addiction is different than a "choice". If they simply could choose to stop, they wouldn't be addicted, correct? Do people see that differently? If so, how?
Definition: Choice > the right, the power, or opportunity to choose
Definition: Addiction > the condition of being abnormally dependent on some habit, esp compulsive dependency on a substance
Either way, the result is the same. That person who in our lives has an addiction. And with that addiction many at this point are not stopping and/or are unable to stop.
Whether they seek treatment or not, the result is the same in that they have an addiction. They will, for most, always have a chemical addiction to this substance.
Another thought about this conversation . . .
Alcoholism's called an addiction for a reason. An addiction is different than a "choice". If they simply could choose to stop, they wouldn't be addicted, correct? Do people see that differently? If so, how?
Definition: Choice > the right, the power, or opportunity to choose
Definition: Addiction > the condition of being abnormally dependent on some habit, esp compulsive dependency on a substance
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You have forgotten about the choice to start in the first place.
One of the biggest problems with labelling alcoholism as a disease is that if a person never has a single sip of alcohol in his life then he will never get sick with alcoholism.
One of the biggest problems with labelling alcoholism as a disease is that if a person never has a single sip of alcohol in his life then he will never get sick with alcoholism.
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Well, that's true but in the real world - it is a world where alcohol is everywhere.
How many people do you know who have never had a sip of alcohol? I know none.
OK, and with no sip, we know that people with highly addicted brains supplement one addiction for another. Many times when they give up alcohol or drugs they turn to another addiction to try to find the same brain stimulant, the same feeling - gambling (as someone just posted here), sex addiction, porn, drugs . . . etc.
Same goes for every addiction. It's one of tenants of recovery, deal with the addicted brain before it turns to yet another vice.
How many people do you know who have never had a sip of alcohol? I know none.
OK, and with no sip, we know that people with highly addicted brains supplement one addiction for another. Many times when they give up alcohol or drugs they turn to another addiction to try to find the same brain stimulant, the same feeling - gambling (as someone just posted here), sex addiction, porn, drugs . . . etc.
Same goes for every addiction. It's one of tenants of recovery, deal with the addicted brain before it turns to yet another vice.
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