Narcissistic Entitlement

Old 09-13-2012, 08:07 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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About a month ago, someone posted the name of a riveting book about narcissism that was an absolute eye-opener for me. If you weren't on the forum at that time, it is: The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists. I don't remember the author, but you can get it on Amazon. I should have ordered an under-liner pen with it; it was as if the author had lived in my house, perhaps in my soul.

I felt so much better knowing that someone could write a whole book about this, and it wasn't just me in my lonely house.

There is another new book called Almost A Psychopath that was written by a Harvard psychiatrist and a criminal attorney based on research and observation at McClean Hospital, Harvard's psychiatric hospital. Its thesis is that there is a class of people whose personality and character disorder are so severe that they are way beyond normal personality disorders, but not quite to the level of a psychopath. It fits so many of the A descriptions I read on this forum. It also was very freeing to me to read.

I agree with L2L and other posters. It has been profoundly important to me to figure out what I caused with my own behavior, and what I endured because of my A's behavior.

It's like the shoreline and the sea - the line where they meet is definite, but ever shifting. I need to know where my OWN line is in order to stop reacting. When I can't figure that out, I am at a loss for understanding what actions I can take, and then I just drift with the tide. That, I think, is where we all suffer.

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Old 09-13-2012, 09:23 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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L2L, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind elaborating more on this? When my STBXAH were first dating, he pursued me like crazy too. I never realized it could be considered aggression till you mentioned it. We got along great, made each other laugh etc. but, Even when I told him I can't handle a serious relationship and explained all my very legitimate reasons, he did not back off; he called me everyday, changed his Facebook to in a relationship with me, etc.



Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post

You know, it doesn't matter whether or not you are the one to have done the chasing. Their M.O. is the same as so many hundreds of stories I have read h AXBF pursued me like MAD. He just would not let me be. I've learned from Dr. Simon's book that this is called "Aggression." I never understood it or put this word to his behavior, but once I did, I understood. And now reading about Narcissists, it is beginning to make more sense. It's like a fricking GAME to them, and they don't give a rat's ass who gets hurt.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mmk11 View Post
L2L, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind elaborating more on this? When my STBXAH were first dating, he pursued me like crazy too. I never realized it could be considered aggression till you mentioned it. We got along great, made each other laugh etc. but, Even when I told him I can't handle a serious relationship and explained all my very legitimate reasons, he did not back off; he called me everyday, changed his Facebook to in a relationship with me, etc.
I didn't realize it was aggression when it was happening, either. But after reading Dr. Simon's book, "In Sheep's Clothing," I was able to put a name to his behavior. I think Dr. Simon would characterize AXBF's behavior as "Covert Aggression." Here is a link to his book I've found: http://www.galaksija.com/literatura/...s_Clothing.pdf. If you just read the Introduction to the book, you'll get a grasp on the concept of Aggression and how people use it to manipulate others.

It's all about Control.

And I know for certain that while we codies run around like crazy, exhausting ourselves putting out their fires or trying to accommodate or make things easier for them, screaming and yelling at them in reaction to their bad behaviors, we THINK we are controlling them but in reality THEY are controlling US. I think that's why we get so sick and they just go on with their happy little lives doing whatever they damn well please.

As for my situation, in the beginning, and for a very long time, AXBF was just all OVER and ABOUT me. He talked about me constantly, to me, to his parents, to his siblings, to other people. He practically worshipped me. He cleaned out my basement, took my car for an oil change, organized my paperwork, helped me around the house, was at my every beck and call. He did the grocery shopping, vacuumed the house, helped me do the laundry, scrubbed the bathtub, you name it, if I asked, he did it. And often, I didn't even have to ask. He was the absolute BEST BF I have ever had! He called and texted me constantly whenever we were apart, and always wanted to be with me. He Facebooked me all day and night. I literally thought he was on Facebook ONLY to talk to me. He ignored everyone else. It was all VERY flattering and I believed it was because he loved me so much. I am still very confused about it. But, and this is a BIG "but," I had been VERY clear several times that I did not want to live together, and he moved in anyway. I was so excited, happy, and distracted by all the "loving" things AXBF was doing, all the attention he paid me, and how he was treating me, that I did not even notice he had moved in until AFTER he had moved in. What I had said to him, what MY needs were, simply did not matter. And once I realized he was in, I just shrugged my shoulders and let it go. Who wouldn't, with a live-in worshiper???

And then, without warning, it all seemed to change. No longer did I have a live-in worshiper. The true person started to reveal himself. And I was thoroughly hurt and confused. I wanted it to go back to the way it was but it never did, and I just kept thinking that it must be me, that I'm not this and I'm not that, and that is why he no longer treated me the same, and was no longer interested in me.

But now, after reading a few of these Narcissism books, I am beginning to better understand. Apparently, what a Narcissist will do is appeal to your weaknesses and exploit you for what it is THEY want or need, without any regard to what YOU want or need. Regardless of whether you have stated what you want or need, or not.

Narcissists apparently have weak or non-existent boundaries. As Sandy Hotchkiss says in this book I am reading, "The Narcissist suffers from a deep character flaw in the development of sense of Self. This flaw prevents such individuals from being able to recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who offer the possibility of some sort of gratification will be treated as if they are a part of the Narcissist and will be expected, automatically, to live up to that person's expectations... there is no boundary between Self and other."

I'm still piecing all this information together and figuring out how it applies to me. I am searching for my vulnerabilities that he appealed to and want to strengthen myself in whatever way I need to so that I do not fall in this trap yet again. I know that self-esteem has something to do with it. And I also know my upbringing and the horrid lack of boundaries that existed in my FOO and with others have affected me. I just need to figure out how to address these things.

Hope something here is helpful.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:01 AM
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Here also is a link to one of Dr. Simon's articles on covert aggression:
Beware the Covert-Aggressive Personality

The covert-aggressive personality employs a potent one-two punch: the covert-aggressive conceals aggressive intent to ensure you never really see what’s coming; and he or she exploits your normal sensitivities, conscientiousness and other vulnerabilities to manipulate you into succumbing.

Covert-Aggressive Personalities are the archetypal wolves in sheep’s clothing that I introduced in my first book, In Sheep’s Clothing. These individuals are not openly aggressive in their interpersonal style. In fact, they do their best to keep their aggressive intentions and behaviors carefully masked. They can often appear quite charming and amiable, but underneath their civil facade they are just as ruthless as any other aggressive personality. They are devious, underhanded, and subtle in the ways they abuse and exploit others. They have usually amassed an arsenal of interpersonal maneuvers and tactics that have enabled them to effectively manipulate and control those in relationships with them. The tactics they use are effective because they simultaneously accomplish two objectives very effectively:

◦The tactics conceal obvious aggressive intent. When the covert-aggressive is using the tactics, the other person has little objective reason to suspect that he is simply attempting to gain advantage over them.
The tactics covert-aggressive personalities use effectively play on the sensitivity, conscientiousness, and other vulnerabilities of most persons — especially neurotic individuals (MY NOTE: By "neurotic individuals" Dr. Simon means US, people who are conscientious and caring, etc)— and therefore effectively quash any resistance another person might have to giving-in to the demands of the aggressor. So, it’s this one-two punch of the tactics: never really seeing what’s coming, and being vulnerable to succumbing to them, that’s at the heart of why most people get manipulated by them.

A good example might be the case in which a wife confronts her husband about not spending as much time as she would like him to with the family. He might retort that he constantly feels as if unreasonable demands are being placed on him by her (casting himself as the “victim”), that he works hard to provide for his family but no one seems to appreciate it (casting himself as the suffering, under-valued servant), and that she never has anything good to say about him and is always complaining (using the techniques of shaming and guilt-tripping). Within moments, the woman’s good intention to correct a problem in family relationships is now framed as a heartless attack on an unappreciated devoted husband and father. If the wife buys into the tactics, she will be successfully manipulated. She won’t see the situation as one in which she is in a relationship with a person who puts his own desires and his career first and his family second. In fact, she might not view him as an aggressor at all and may even come to believe that she is the unjust attacker. She’ll probably relent and remain under her partner’s dominance and control.

Now, as you can see from the preceding example, aggressive personalities that use such tactics to bring potential adversaries to submission are anything but passive in their interpersonal styles. Yet for years many have erroneously applied the label “passive-aggressive” to such behaviors. I wrote about this in a prior post: “When Passive-Aggression isn’t Very Passive”. Furthermore, personalities such as the husband described in the example above are very different from the kind of personalities that are appropriately labeled passive-aggressive personalities. The eminent researcher Dr. Theodore Millon describes passive-aggressive personalities as having an “active-ambivalent” pattern of relating to others. That is, they are very ambivalent about whether to adhere primarily to a staunchly independent mode of conduct or to rely primarily on others to tend to their emotional needs. As a result, they engage in a continuous pattern of vacillation between the two extremes. Ask them where they want to go for dinner and they will tell you to decide. Pick a place and they will complain that they don’t really like it that well and don’t want to go there. Invite them to pick a place of their own liking and they will complain that they asked you to decide. Tell them of another preference and they will be lukewarm to your suggestion. It goes on and on. Therapists who treat passive-aggressive personalities know this kind of scenario well. Their client will pelt them with pleas for assistance. But when the therapist recommends a course of action, the client will come up with ten reasons why he or she can’t do what the therapist prescribes. When the therapist throws up his or her hands in exasperation, the client will wail and complain that nobody cares. It’s a horribly self-defeating vicious circle of ambivalence.

As you can see, covert-aggressive personalities are very different from passive-aggressive personalities, and they are anything but passive. They are very actively aggressive personalities who know how to keep their aggressive agendas carefully cloaked. Dealing with them is like getting whiplash. You don’t know how badly you’ve been taken advantage of until long after the damage is done. They are, perhaps, the most manipulative of all personalities with the possible exception of the psychopathic (alt: sociopathic) personality — the subject of an upcoming post.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by trublnshangrila View Post
I was so addicted to the drama, the highs and extreme lows, the ambiguity & unhealthiness of being with him that I mistook for passion and love...
And I ask myself the same questions as you! For me, I didn't love myself enough to think that I deserved better and run! I saw his issues, thought I could save him from drinking himself to death, when I should have been saving myself. If loving him meant I couldn't love myself (which it did because i would have had to heavily compromise my values ), I chose me. And every day that I'm away from him I choose me. Love is not pain, it's just pain.
Ya' know, this really has me thinking Shangrila. I have read so often that we choose the people we choose because we are trying to re-create the problems of our childhood so that we finally have the opportunity to resolve them. And Dr. Simon and these Narcissist authors keep saying how these character-disordered people target our vulnerabilities. Something is starting to click in my head, and that is that for some reason we feel we want to rescue THEM, or that we can help THEM, and we neglect ourselves. And of course it's obvious we should be devoting the resources and energy we give to these other people, directly to ourselves, but I wonder why we don't just do that automatically? I wonder why we feel we have to fix someone else? I just don't get that. I wish I knew and I wish I could fix this about myself!!!
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:45 PM
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L2L, I have also racked my brain...here's my personal conclusion. See if you can relate...my parents weren't drinkers/druggers but they had volatile, loud arguments, screaming, yelling, throwing things, tons of drama. I was the one who comforted my mother as she lay on the living room floor, sobbing in the dark, curled in the fetal position, after my father left the house in a rage. She would tell me she was trapped, wanted to leave, him, had nowhere to go and I would sit beside her, trying to say and do things to help.
It upset me so much to see her in that state but I felt needed. Somewhere deep in my psyche registered: So men leave you when you don't conform to their wishes and I am useful when I am helping others. With the AM I've been referring to here, I became a walking, talking, man-pleasing doormat. And we know how well that worked out. He walked over me & out the door.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:34 PM
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What an incisive thread, L2L. It has started me to thinking out loud.

I wonder if we want to rescue THEM (our adult narcissist partners), because we identify with the "victimhood" we are perceiving them to suffer, because that is what WE suffered as children. So, we are trying to re-parent ourselves by acting as the parent, or fixer, for our partner in the same way we wished our parents had taken care of us when we were children.

If this is right, it is a very complex set of shifting identifications. Our narcissistic partner represents us as children; that might be true, because narcissism for a child wouldn't need to be the same as narcissism for an adult. Children NEED to be self-centered; they need to be taken care of; they are not expected to take care of others. So some of our unmet needs as children with lousy parents might resemble the demands and needs of a narcissist.

We were "trained" in our dysfunctional households to be the parent even though we were the child. At least, I certainly was. So it was normal to me to take the responsible role when my parents wanted to act like children.

So,when we meet an adult narcissist who presents us with an opportunity to fix the very needs we had as children that didn't get fixed as children - - this must seem like an emotional golden opportunity to do for someone else what we desperately needed and didn't get.

Does this make any sense?

BothSidesNow
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:41 PM
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I feel like I should be awarded a diploma for all I am learning here. This thread in particular. Deep, analytical, introspective. WOW.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:22 PM
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Yes, BSN, that makes a lot of sense. But my brain is fried for the day so I will comment tomorrow.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:00 PM
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Enoughenough: mumble, mumble, TWINKIES, mumble ...

ROFLMAO!
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:21 PM
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The A's terminally unique views, ever the exception, play right into the N type.
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Titanic View Post
The A's terminally unique views, ever the exception, play right into the N type.
I'm beginning to wonder, though, what came first, the N or the A?
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BothSidesNow View Post
What an incisive thread, L2L. It has started me to thinking out loud.

I wonder if we want to rescue THEM (our adult narcissist partners), because we identify with the "victimhood" we are perceiving them to suffer, because that is what WE suffered as children. So, we are trying to re-parent ourselves by acting as the parent, or fixer, for our partner in the same way we wished our parents had taken care of us when we were children.

If this is right, it is a very complex set of shifting identifications. Our narcissistic partner represents us as children; that might be true, because narcissism for a child wouldn't need to be the same as narcissism for an adult. Children NEED to be self-centered; they need to be taken care of; they are not expected to take care of others. So some of our unmet needs as children with lousy parents might resemble the demands and needs of a narcissist.

We were "trained" in our dysfunctional households to be the parent even though we were the child. At least, I certainly was. So it was normal to me to take the responsible role when my parents wanted to act like children.

So,when we meet an adult narcissist who presents us with an opportunity to fix the very needs we had as children that didn't get fixed as children - - this must seem like an emotional golden opportunity to do for someone else what we desperately needed and didn't get.

Does this make any sense?

BothSidesNow
My parents were extremely dysfunctional but high functioning in that they did not require caretaking but my father was highly dangerous when drunk and was completely emotional unavailable when sober or drunk.

I have found that I seek out his personality type (very charismatic, attractive, manipulative and alcoholic) and have a deep need to "fix" the broken man and I now completely understand the psychological connection now.

Understanding it and changing the very real chemical and hormonal response of my hardwired brain responses is the challenge. Casper Milktoast... Mr. Nice Guy NEVER held any interst for me...ever. The man who made my heart skip a beat was a complicated person who was extremely nice, successful, talented, good looking, smart charming but ... dangerous... alcoholic.... usually in recovery but of course...that wouldn't take long before that would change. It usually does without fail. Alcoholics drink... not drinking was usuallly temporary!

I just now "see" the whole picture so clearly. As a child I could not "rescue" anyone... not me... not my parents...not my siblings. I subconsciously still try to go back and rescue my childhood and keep looking for love from my dad who never gave it. I am attracted to men like dear old dad who was an amazing man sober... that ended about noon everyday of my life!

We are all different and respond differently to the challenges of dysfunctional childhood. I am survivor and highly successful in other areas of life... relationships are disastrous choices on my part. I have had opportunities galore with wonderful, safe, successful, easy men and always passed. No chemistry...none.

I now know that my brain had so much fear as a chld that it cannabalized and destroyed parts of my brain that produce a fear response. This is how the body and brain protect those who are in constantly fearful situations.

I do not feel fear in situations that shoud produce fear. I once sank an airboat in a lake infested with large alligators and when the men wouldn't swim to shore and get help I jumped in and swam all the way to the shore. These men still share this story around my hometown... they think I am crazy. They are probably right.

Our brains are altered. Our chemical responses are different. We need to understand that connection to keep us working on the logical side of things instead of the "feelings" side because I know my "feelings" are way broken!

My question is can I ever be attracted to a normal nice guy???? I just connected that I never have been recently. One date and I am yawning...sigh.

I am old enough that I no longer care about dating or a relationship but it interests me in a scientific sort of way.

Anyone else drawn to the tall, dark, handsome guy that has a capital T on his forehead?
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
I'm beginning to wonder, though, what came first, the N or the A?
Either or neither.

An N can be a non-alcoholic/addict (though the risk of A is higher). Classic Narcissus.

An A can be a non-N (though the risk of N is higher). Classic depressed, self-loathing or situation-hating A.

Addiction can be a secondary result of Narcissism. Likewise, Narcissism can be a secondary result of Addiction.

I don't think self-centerdness or selfishness equates with Narcissism or NPD.

What do you think?
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopeworks View Post
My parents were extremely dysfunctional but high functioning in that they did not require caretaking but my father was highly dangerous when drunk and was completely emotionally unavailable when sober or drunk. ...

I just now "see" the whole picture so clearly. As a child I could not "rescue" anyone... not me... not my parents...not my siblings. I subconsciously still try to go back and rescue my childhood and keep looking for love from my dad who never gave it. ...

We are all different and respond differently to the challenges of dysfunctional childhood. I am survivor and highly successful in other areas of life... relationships are disastrous choices on my part. ...

I now know that my brain had so much fear as a chld that it cannabalized and destroyed parts of my brain that produce a fear response. ...

Our brains are altered. Our chemical responses are different. We need to understand that connection to keep us working on the logical side of things instead of the "feelings" side because I know my "feelings" are way broken! ...

Anyone else drawn to the tall, dark, handsome guy that has a capital T on his forehead?
From http://www.adultchildren.org/lit/Laundry_List.php:

The Laundry List.jpg

Also check out The Solution link (on the Home page), which references not only alcoholic but also other dysfunctional upbringing.

And "T" means what?
Mr. T as in the A-Team?
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Titanic View Post
I don't think self-centerdness or selfishness equates with Narcissism or NPD.

What do you think?
Oh, I absolutely believe Narcissism and NPD = self-centeredness and selfishness. That's what makes a Narcissist narcissistic. But no, you're right, just because someone is self-centered or selfish does not mean they are a Narcissist or have NPD.

I also believe that all alcoholics and addicts are narcissistic, but don't necessarily have NPD.

I do agree with you that not all Narcissists are alcoholic or addicted.

Sandy Hotchkiss, the author of this book I'm reading goes into great detail about how a person develops NPD, from childhood onward. She explains that the people with actual NPD have the selfishness and self-centeredness of a toddler. She explains that they do not even KNOW they are being selfish or self-centered, and are completely oblivious to how their actions affect other people. This explains to me why and how AXBF, and so many others people describe here on SR, could continually and brutally act in his own self-interest without regard to me, my life, my needs, or my feelings, from the very beginning. This is a grown man, nearly 50 years old, who lived in my home for years, and acted like and said we were building a home and a family, whose stated intentions were that we were going to grow old together and take care of eachother, all the way up until the moment he walked out on me with no warning or true explanation (he had MANY excuses but could give no valid reason). This book and my new understanding of narcissism explains to me how he can be so very hurtful and destructive but then can turn around and call me on the phone acting like NOTHING has happened, wanting to be "friends," joyful and carefree, smiling and happy, while I sit here dumbfounded and in shock, crying all day every day for months; my life, my heart, and my soul completely destroyed ... and he doesn't even blink an eye. It's business and life as usual for him, and I'm left here to pick up the pieces.

If THAT's not Narcissism, I don't know what is. Scary thing is, I believe there are many more people like this out there than there are people NOT like this. And I seem to attract them like a ten-ton magnet.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopeworks View Post
My parents were extremely dysfunctional but high functioning in that they did not require caretaking but my father was highly dangerous when drunk and was completely emotional unavailable when sober or drunk.

I have found that I seek out his personality type (very charismatic, attractive, manipulative and alcoholic) and have a deep need to "fix" the broken man and I now completely understand the psychological connection now.

Understanding it and changing the very real chemical and hormonal response of my hardwired brain responses is the challenge. Casper Milktoast... Mr. Nice Guy NEVER held any interst for me...ever. The man who made my heart skip a beat was a complicated person who was extremely nice, successful, talented, good looking, smart charming but ... dangerous... alcoholic.... usually in recovery but of course...that wouldn't take long before that would change. It usually does without fail. Alcoholics drink... not drinking was usuallly temporary!

I just now "see" the whole picture so clearly. As a child I could not "rescue" anyone... not me... not my parents...not my siblings. I subconsciously still try to go back and rescue my childhood and keep looking for love from my dad who never gave it. I am attracted to men like dear old dad who was an amazing man sober... that ended about noon everyday of my life!

We are all different and respond differently to the challenges of dysfunctional childhood. I am survivor and highly successful in other areas of life... relationships are disastrous choices on my part. I have had opportunities galore with wonderful, safe, successful, easy men and always passed. No chemistry...none.

I now know that my brain had so much fear as a chld that it cannabalized and destroyed parts of my brain that produce a fear response. This is how the body and brain protect those who are in constantly fearful situations.

I do not feel fear in situations that shoud produce fear. I once sank an airboat in a lake infested with large alligators and when the men wouldn't swim to shore and get help I jumped in and swam all the way to the shore. These men still share this story around my hometown... they think I am crazy. They are probably right.

Our brains are altered. Our chemical responses are different. We need to understand that connection to keep us working on the logical side of things instead of the "feelings" side because I know my "feelings" are way broken!

My question is can I ever be attracted to a normal nice guy???? I just connected that I never have been recently. One date and I am yawning...sigh.

I am old enough that I no longer care about dating or a relationship but it interests me in a scientific sort of way.

Anyone else drawn to the tall, dark, handsome guy that has a capital T on his forehead?
Ever watch "Secret Window"?
YOU STOLE MY STORY!

Only man that ever rocked my world was the A...the rest, yup...yawn...had plenty of chances with "nice" guys...they seem too simple, don't they? Not complex enough, not enough of an enigma, too easy to read...loved the A partially because he was the only man I could never read...now that's a challenge...only man who's feathers I couldn't ruffle...only man that I didn't have the upper hand with...only man that had dad's determination...seemed to have dad's superior intelligence...the list goes on and on. I loved the challenge but it damn near destroyed me...and I won't give in, ever.

Keep insisting to finally get it right and win.
Who says only the A's are stubborn? Ha!
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopeworks View Post
My parents were extremely dysfunctional but high functioning in that they did not require caretaking but my father was highly dangerous when drunk and was completely emotional unavailable when sober or drunk.

I have found that I seek out his personality type (very charismatic, attractive, manipulative and alcoholic) and have a deep need to "fix" the broken man and I now completely understand the psychological connection now.

Understanding it and changing the very real chemical and hormonal response of my hardwired brain responses is the challenge. Casper Milktoast... Mr. Nice Guy NEVER held any interst for me...ever. The man who made my heart skip a beat was a complicated person who was extremely nice, successful, talented, good looking, smart charming but ... dangerous... alcoholic.... usually in recovery but of course...that wouldn't take long before that would change. It usually does without fail. Alcoholics drink... not drinking was usuallly temporary!

I just now "see" the whole picture so clearly. As a child I could not "rescue" anyone... not me... not my parents...not my siblings. I subconsciously still try to go back and rescue my childhood and keep looking for love from my dad who never gave it. I am attracted to men like dear old dad who was an amazing man sober... that ended about noon everyday of my life!

We are all different and respond differently to the challenges of dysfunctional childhood. I am survivor and highly successful in other areas of life... relationships are disastrous choices on my part. I have had opportunities galore with wonderful, safe, successful, easy men and always passed. No chemistry...none.

I now know that my brain had so much fear as a chld that it cannabalized and destroyed parts of my brain that produce a fear response. This is how the body and brain protect those who are in constantly fearful situations.

I do not feel fear in situations that shoud produce fear. I once sank an airboat in a lake infested with large alligators and when the men wouldn't swim to shore and get help I jumped in and swam all the way to the shore. These men still share this story around my hometown... they think I am crazy. They are probably right.

Our brains are altered. Our chemical responses are different. We need to understand that connection to keep us working on the logical side of things instead of the "feelings" side because I know my "feelings" are way broken!

My question is can I ever be attracted to a normal nice guy???? I just connected that I never have been recently. One date and I am yawning...sigh.

I am old enough that I no longer care about dating or a relationship but it interests me in a scientific sort of way.

Anyone else drawn to the tall, dark, handsome guy that has a capital T on his forehead?
Thank you for putting my relationship problem into words, Hopeworks. I don't care for the boring, hum-drum, ordinary. Not attracted to it, no chemistry, etc., just like you said. I feel I am forever dysfunctional in this way and honestly am just so tired of trying. So many relationships over so many years and still I cannot find normalcy, despite all the work I have done on myself, and all the changes I have made. Each time I find "Love" and I think, "This guy is it, this is the person I can finally settle down with," and each time, that just does not happen. There is no one to blame for this, but I sure wish people would not have children with alcoholics and addicts, because those children, I'm afraid, grow up to be just like me. It is sad.
Learn2Live is offline  
Old 09-14-2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Thank you for putting my relationship problem into words, Hopeworks. I don't care for the boring, hum-drum, ordinary. Not attracted to it, no chemistry, etc., just like you said. I feel I am forever dysfunctional in this way and honestly am just so tired of trying. So many relationships over so many years and still I cannot find normalcy, despite all the work I have done on myself, and all the changes I have made. Each time I find "Love" and I think, "This guy is it, this is the person I can finally settle down with," and each time, that just does not happen. There is no one to blame for this, but I sure wish people would not have children with alcoholics and addicts, because those children, I'm afraid, grow up to be just like me. It is sad.
There is nothing sad about being you.
You are beautiful.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:21 AM
  # 60 (permalink)  
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You aren't defeated, you are now empowered with knowledge so you can make choices for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Many of us come here to SR after reading a description of Narcissism and say it sounds just like the alcoholic spouse or significant other. This excerpt from, "Why Is It Always About You?" by Sandy Hotchkiss, seems to describe AXBF perfectly. It is bringing me peace and serenity today to read this book. I am beginning to better understand who I have been living with these past few years. Maybe it will help you today too.



This just explains so very much for me. I'm sitting here shaking my head. I feel so defeated.
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