wellnowwhat

I am afraid I see tough times ahead for your mother and your family. Sending good thoughts your way.

Fandy

you seem to be OK with this decision and not putting a barrier up to protect your elderly mother..... in the long run I hope you realize what will happen to her and your family if your brother takes advantage of her.

DesertEyes

To vtsister #1 and #2:

My heart goes out to you. I can't imagine a worse nightmare than what you're family is going thru with your brother. His behavior brings out the most extreme emotions in people.

As you can tell by some of the members who have posted extremely emotional messages to you. And they are not even in your family.

I want to congratulate you on your obviously deep love for each other and your brother. As well as your level headed handling of the situation. Clearly, since you have been amongst the most level headed people on this thread

Amongst the numerous posts here there have been a few that point out that there are no simple answers to this problem. That is why there are 80 some thousand members just on this website alone, and there are _thousands_ of other websites devoted to the problem of addictions and alcoholism. There are world-wide organizations on the subject; Al-anon, CODA, AA and on an on.

What does work is a simple series of steps that we promote on this forum.

1- Educate yourself about the disease of addiction. How it affects the addicted person as well as how it destroys a family. We have a number of "sticky posts" at the top of this forum that can help you get started.

2- Investigate the resources in your community. Starting with al-anon and CODA, then visit the nearest large hospital with a recovery program and ask to see the "intake counselor". Visit a few therapists who specialize in addiction. Not all of these resources will fit your needs, so check more than one.

3- After you have done all of the above you can then make a decision. However, it is not a simple decision. You have to decide what actions you are going to take for your _own_ protection from the disease, and you also have to decide that you are going to allow the other members of your family to make _their_ decision. That's the hard part, respecting another's decision even when you know in your heart it will cause them harm. That's called "Release with love".

Having gone thru the above a few times in my life I know how difficult it can be.

Please feel free to post here as much as you want, and to start new threads if you care to. Please also feel free to ignore those strident members who are themselves in a world of pain. They're not really "connecting" with what you are going thru, they are just in deep, deep pain over their own loved ones and their own life and so they scream instead of share.

However, if they get offensive, that's a whole different issue. Please report the post to any one of us Moderators and we'll come see what's going on.

Welcome again, and thank you for your patience.

Mike
Moderator, SR

vtsister2

Fandy,

Please tell me--how do you propose we "put up a barrier"? I fought tooth and nail to keep him from doing this to her, including telling her NOT to pick up the phone should he call her! She was able to do that for 3 days, but finally the thought of her poor little boy (my words, not hers) being in jail got to her, so she picked it up.

And he is SO charming and SO manipulative and SUCH a master of the poor-me syndrome that that's all it took.

I am SICK that she's going to be driving down to the jail alone today, with a thousand dollars cash in her pocket, to bail that irresponsible, thieving, lying 48-yr-old "man" out.

But as we've heard on this forum over and over and over again, we cannot control others. I've made myself almost sick trying to make things right for everybody, and carry the burden for Mom, and make M understand that we love him but cannot tolerate what he's doing--ESPECIALLY to our mother. So once I got the call from her last night that she's going to do this, I decided I need to just back off and let everybody do what they're gonna do. I can't do anything more.

It seems the "I'm his mother" card trumps everything logical. I have no kids of my own so I don't have that perspective.

All I know is I hope I can force myself to just stay out of it and let Mom run her own life once he steps in and starts taking it over.

THIS SUCKS.

Fandy

in thinking of my own family....if I had done what your brother has to my own mother....my older brother would have threatened me with bodily harm...(not that this is the answer) and under the threat of being cut off from every member of my family, I would have listened to him.

my mother always listened to my brother (him being the eldest and most successful child)....my mother coddled me more but thought lesser of me in the long run.

your brother obviously has no respect for your requests to protect your mother...and your mom is in charge of her own affairs.

all you can do is pray that Karma and common sense kick in somewhere. i'm so very sorry that your weekend is filled with drama.

vtsister2

Unfortunately this person IS the "big brother" in our family--he's the oldest son. Vtsister is the oldest child, and I am the 2nd oldest. M and our other brother K are the youngest of 6 siblings. And K is just as much of an alcoholic as M, yet meaner. K's been pretty much estranged from the family for years. So he's no help at all--just additional stress/drama.

The idea of being cut off from all of the family as motivation for change might work fine in families where everyone is on the same page. But if you have even one person who can't or won't go along, it falls apart. We have that.

Our family is pretty much the perfect picture of the dysfunction that alcoholism can cause.

It truly IS a family illness.

vtsister

Mike, thank you for your kind and encouraging comments. I realized from some of the comments we got about child support that this is a very sensitive topic for a lot of people.

Fandy, when I read this, I was going to reply, but then saw that my sister already did.

I'll just add that we've been trying for YEARS to protect our mother from emotional harm, first from a very emotionally and verbally abusing husband (who died a couple of months ago), and also from our TWO alcoholic (and sometimes drug abusing) brothers.

We've been worried SICK about her for a long time, and thought that the stress would kill her before my father. She's just barely been getting used to living alone without my father, and starting to get out and do some things she's wanted to do.

Now, with my lying/stealing/alcoholic brother in the house, she's going to have to go back to hiding her money and checkbook and jewelry. She's going to see him come home drunk every night, etc.

But we can't ORDER her not to bail our brother out, or ORDER her not to take him in. She has a sharp mind, and is making her own decisions.

I know there's a common belief that when one family member is addicted, the whole family is sick, and it surely seems like that's true in our family.

Those of us who aren't addicts try to "rescue" and "help" those who are.

Now look at the giant mess we're in.

My sister, THE most loving and generous woman you'd want to meet, is now emotionally exhausted, at the point of screaming or wanting to run away, and is now developing what seems to be a "hard" or "hardened" attitude. She says she can't take any more, and feels like cutting off the whole family. This is not like her at all.

There is some tension among us right now because we're all so frustrated. My mother and I have children, and tend to be on the "I'll do anything for my children even if it's not good for me" end of the spectrum. My sister, who doesn't have children, is on the other end of the spectrum, the "I'd never tolerate that crap" end.

I fall very close to my mother's spot on the spectrum, but not quite where she is, because I'm going to have a few words with my brother when he gets here, which pushed me a tiny step closer to my sister's end of the spectrum, but not close enough, since I've taken his crap for five years.

I'm going to let him know that we aren't impressed with him LYING to get my mother to go down there to bail him out, and I'm going to tell him that an adult would not move in with his mother in this situation. Not that it will help, but I'm going to say some things.

Then he can be mad at me along with my sister, but that's okay. He needs to hear this stuff from someone besides just my sister.

catlovermi

Just wanted to gently point out that one can take a stronger, more defined position in a situation without being a "hardened" person or a person with a "hardened" attitude.

This disease is so vicious and insidious that sometimes the way to save oneself is to put every sick family member at a non-toxic distance. It is one of the hardest realities of this family disease.

CLMI

vtsister

That probably wasn't the best word, but I couldn't think of another at the moment when I was writing. You're right, "distancing" is probably the word I was looking for to describe my sister.

It's just sad to feel this distancing because we *are* so close in our family, most of us anyway.

laurie6781

VTSister #1 and #2

Since it now seems as if your brother is going to move in with your 78 year old mother, most states nowadays seem to have an "Adult Protection Services" department. It may be a separate division or through the Income and Welfare Support department of the state.

I think it would be advisable for both of you to keep an eye on the situation and call asking for a "Wellness Check" of your mother periodically as things progress in her home. A social worker who works with the elderly will come and do a home check and see how the 'elderly' person is holding up and make recommendations that may be needed up to and including that they can, do, and have gone to court to get a Restraining Order against the offending adult child.

Something you might want to check into now so you have the numbers handy when needed, especially since you seem to be aware of what the 'stress' of him living there is going to do to your mother's health.

Just a thought.

Prayers going out for you and your whole family.

Love and hugs,

Freedom1990

I understand the frustration with having a family member enable him. My dad has enabled my AD twice in the past few months, and all I can do is turn it over. Even my mother is frustrated with my dad for cleaning up her messes.

Wishing you some serenity in your lives!

vtsister

This is something I hadn't thought of, but I'll keep it in mind.

Thank you, everyone, for the good thoughts and prayers that have been offered.

My mother came in when she dropped off my brother earlier. She's pretty upset, thinks we're all going to be mad at her for bailing out my brother (even though we assured her that we aren't), but told me "it's done now". Then she got up and left. She's good at being a martyr.

I think my brother is kind of embarrassed though, because he didn't even stop by and talk to me at all.

He did tell my mother that child support will now be the FIRST thing he pays, no matter what, because he never wants to go back to jail again.

At least he figured out that much.

Freedom1990

My mother is the martyr too. Even my dad says she's a martyr, but he has no concept of how sick that is. He says she's earned her place in heaven as a martyr. It's admirable. Ugh.

I will keep all of you in my prayers!

Spawn

Since being in recovery I've learned to make healthy choices. I also come from a
family with it's share of issue's. Out of my entire family the only two I keep in touch
with are my 2 younger brother's. I didn't even include my parents on my wedding
day out of fear of their behaviour....I can't trust them. At first my choices seemed
harsh but the end result was a healthy happy home life for my wife and I.
The only thing I can control is me and my choices if your a person that's a risk of causing
stress or troubles in my home your gone! Again I just want to say sometimes choices are
hard but you need to figure out what's the most important to you. Then once your choices are made you let go and let God.

m1k3

I would like to share one little thing. Al-anon gave me the tools and support to detach with love. Detachment isn't just from the A. It is also detaching from the insanity that the A causes in everyone else. They too are adults with the right to make their own decisions no matter how much it drives you crazy.

Your friend,

Fandy

I hear that the heat wave has reached up to northern Vermont! I hope it does not affect the maple syrup crop i love so much....I would cut my thumb off for a piece of that sugary candy...(i'm on WW, can you tell)????? sugar withdrawal.

The original Mr. Fandy stopped working as a hardware program specialist in 2001..he used the excuse that most of his clients were in the towers at the WTC....he moved in with his mother because he decided it was better than repairing his own roof and bathroom, using the excuse that his father had just passed away from cancer. I'm sure that Tess (his mama) was glad to have company rattling around in a 5 bedroom house with an acre of lawn and a big driveway...(his own house had developed raccoons in the attic and plumbing needing replaced)....this man (who i divorced in 1986) was still ranting about the divorce 23 years later...and drinking a quart of Stolys every day, smoking dope and never exercising....he lost his health insurance benefits, shot up to 350 lbs. and never went back to work....he came from $$$, had another home on the beach which he thorughly enjoyed (down the beach about 10 miles from the famous JShore home).

October 2009, Tess found her eldest son dead in his childhood room, he was 55...he had been complaining of leg heaviness...I don't know his COD of course but I am thinking a DVT worked it's way up to his evil little heart and stopped it.....all I thought about when I heard the news is that I no longer had to "worry" that he could make good on his threat to cut my brake linings. His younger brother made some dramatic statements to me via email after the funeral???? my only contact with them the last few years was to request that they all stay away from my mother's recent funeral...(for some reason, this enraged all of them, they are a large group of coconuts)...LMF (little miss fandy) is our only child and she stays in touch with his family....she is now 30

I never had ill will to my MIL but feel so sad that she had to find him....no parent should ever have to bury their child.

JACKRUSSELLGIRL

So sorry that you are going through this and especially your mom. Your brother knows just how to push her buttons and as a mom, she wants to protect her baby. That is what all us mothers do. She just has not realized that by trying to pretect her baby in this way, she is actually helping him destroy himself.

To all of you. My heart goes out to you. As hard as it is to deal with an AH, I would take an AH over any of my children any day. I can divorce him and move on but with your children it is a whole different story IMHO.

Spawn

So sad.....
I too knew a father that found his 21 year old son dead.
The son belonged to a group I was involved with.....he almost had a year clean....they
found a needle in his room. Addiction is a serious thing!
But there are many happy stories too.
I pray every day for the alcoholic and addict that still suffers.

vtsister

Yes, the heat wave is here. The heat has been nearly intolerable. Give me a mountain of snow any day. I can deal with that. Heat--no thanks.

That's terrible that your (ex) mother in law had to find her son dead. The same could happen to my mother, because my brother has already had one heart attack, and he's a smoker too.

No parent should ever have to bury a child is right.

vtsister

When I finally got to see my brother to talk to him today, he was already DRUNK.

The one good thing is that he might actually look for his own place to move into, instead of moving in with my mother.