kmangel

I can see how someone might want to bail out a person the first time he/she gets in trouble but after that one time it's up to the person in trouble to face the music. It's probably best the first time around, too, actually. We human beings are soft hearted. We want to give our loved ones in trouble the benefit of the doubt. Then the person usually goes on to continue making bad decisions. Everyone on this forum will agree to that statement, I'm sure. We help and then realize what we thought was help was no help at all.

Let your brother face the music. It's time to let go and let God.

Spawn

49 and he lives with you....wow
Probably by now it feels as though everyone is against your brother?

Just a thought but why do you feel this need to be his savior?

m1k3

Agreed, why do you want to own this problem?

I highly recommend Al-anon for you and your sister. You have been given an opportunity here to begin to take care of yourself. The road to recovery starts with that first step.



Your friend,

LexieCat

I guess another question would be why you need an excuse to decide you don't want to let him continue to live in your house.

The house belongs to you and your husband. What's so terrible about saying, "We've helped all we can, and we really want our own space. You will have to make other living arrangements," giving him a firm timetable to move out (a month should be plenty of time).

Is he even paying you rent? If so, he can pay someone else. If not, um, I think he is taking advantage of your kindness. A 49-year-old shouldn't be camped out in a relative's house indefinitely.

GettingBy

You're brother has a disease... it's called alcoholism. And you, by allowing him to live there with little to no rent... are enabling the disease. You are keeping him sick.

I'm not saying that you caused the alcoholism, and I'm not saying you can control it, or even cure... but your enabling of him sure is keeping it going and contributing to it.

We, the loved ones of alcoholics, get so damned mad at them. We say things like, "Why won't he just grow up? Why doesn't he just stop?" We get frustrated that they don't take responsibility for themselves... but then WE swoop it and keep them from having the chance to be responsible for themselves. We don't give them the dignity to be an adult, an individual who makes their own decisions and gets to live the CONSEQUENCES of those decisions!!

By "mothering/controlling" them, we show them that we don't feel they are capable of doing it on their own. "OH, where would they be without us?!?!?!" Blcck, that's OUR sickness. Our need to feel important... our need to feel like we are doing something about the situation... a situation that is NOT OURS to do anything about!!!

For goodness sake... let him be an adult... let him find his own housing, and deal with his OWN problems. Does anybody come and pay your bills? Who comes to bail you out when you get in a pinch? Maybe your husband, because he's your partner... but that's it, right? Your friends help you out here and there - and that's good... but none of them take on the responsibility of making sure you survive... b/c it's not their job - it's yours. It's your brother's job to take care of himself, nobody else's.

Please let him be an adult. All this "help" you are giving him - it's keeping him sick.

m1k3

Vtsister. Remember No is a complete sentence. You don't have to explain if you don't feel like it.

Lexie, good point. He's a big boy and should be able to take care of himself by now.

Your friend,

Fandy

in reading through this thread a thought came to me....His kids are suffering long-term while dead-beat "Dad" skates along.

Instead of bailing him out, give the bail $$ to the mom so the kids can be provided for...tell your brother that he has to grow up sometime....pack his stuff up and let him leech off of someone else.

Spawn

As a recovering alcoholic I can say the best help I got is when people
started saying no to me. I had to hit bottom before I saw I had a problem.
A little more then 12 years ago all I had was the shirt on my back......now I'm
happily married....live in a nice house....2 cars in the driveway.....family responsibilities
office is paid up and out of my life. The alcoholic can have a normal happy life once they
take ownership of their disease and do the do's to better themselves.

vtsister

Spawn, I'm glad to hear that you're doing so well. We're hoping our brother will get on the path to doing well too, and we know he can, because he's done it before.

Sitting in jail is probably throwing my brother for a loop right now, because he got word this morning that nobody in the family is going to be bailing him out right away.

He called my sister to see "what was up", and when he learned that he wasn't going to be bailed out right away, he got really angry and defensive, and started trying to blame his problems on everybody else. I think he probably has quite a lot to think about this afternoon.

As far as him living with us, we don't mind sharing our house (except for when he causes drama). We enjoy having him around, and I'm not looking to boot him out over this episode. Yes, he does give us a certain amount to live here, so most of the time it's a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Oh, and I'm not trying to "save him"...or am I?...Not purposely anyway.

Freedom1990

Just some food for thought.

Where is the dignity in him living with relatives at age 49?

Fandy

"Oh, and I'm not trying to "save him"...or am I?...Not purposely anyway". (snipped for space)

sorry i do not seem to be able to make the blue box for a partial quote.

You certainly are enabling him..along with the rest of your family. (you stated that he is cushioned). How many times has he been to court for nonpayment of child support? Maybe the judge got tired of his game. How many times have his children gone without?

I used to have to chase my Xhusband for support before I was able to get his wages garnished and a direct check. at that time, I worked 2 jobs to make ends meet and provide for the bills...I went without to pay bills on time and I'm sure lots of other moms do too, for lack of decent CS.

I'm sorry if you (and others) find it offensive, but it's his kids that are suffering, because he is NOT meeting his obligations. Does he pay rent to you before he makes a child support payment? Does he buy his own amentities before he pays the child support? How would you feel if he repeatedly stiffed you month after month?

JMFburns

I am a 51 yr old woman, not much older than your brother. If I ended up in jail (for whatever reason . . .) I would NOT be calling my family members to bail me out. I would sit patiently through the jail/court process and deal with it on my own. I am an adult and I am responsible for myself.

I would be embarressed to be there and wouldn't want to broadcast to my family the problems.

Just my opinion...

gerryP

I echo Fandy's thoughts entirely. I have a soft spot for children and animals because they are virtually helpless.

While I was drinking my life away, no one, not one person helped me in any way, shape or form. I was the architect of my own design. When I couldn't live that way anymore, I stopped.

I think what bothers me most is the seeming lack of concern shown for your nieces/nephews financial well being, in favour of a 49 year old dead beat Dad of a brother. What message are you sending your brothers kids? That they don't matter?

The other comment that is grating on my nerves is "will not be bailing him out right away" Boy, you are really going to show him T.h.i..s time huh? I think you are all dreaming if you think he's going to change, regardless of when you eventually bail him out.

Fandy

AMEN! and to the person who finds the term "Dead Beat Dad" offensive and hurtful???/ sorry....if the shoe fits..WEAR IT.....all the crying and breastbeating about the understanding and help ...that doesn't put food on the table, new sneakers for school and a few pretty things other little kids get without a struggle...Child support is for the CHILD who has no party in your/my drinking. they should not have to go without.

my own Xhusband is dead at the tender age of 55 from "not having $$$ to go to a doctor" but always having $$ for a quart/liter of Stolys vodka every day of his life....

Seren

Ladies and gentlemen,

I will repeat something that I learned here. "Telling someone your own experience once, and you are sharing. Telling someone over and over again, and you are trying to control." We are all free to make our own decisions and if you disagree with someone else's decisions, then perhaps it is time to step away from the keyboard.

vtsister,

I can certainly understand how worried and upset you and your family must be because your brother is in prison. It really never got any easier each time we learned that my A stepson had been arrested and was serving time, however brief. Enabling was a pattern in my husband's family for a long time. Mr. HG and his family were finally able to see that none of their actions to save, rescue, or protect his son were making the slightest dent in his addiction or decision-making process. They all finally let him live his own life without interfering. We all tell him that we love him, but his life, his actions, and the consequences thereof all belong to him.

Hugs and prayers to you and your whole family. HG

vtsister

Thank you for your comments, Hydrogirl.


To this I have to reply that, in order not to share too many personal details on a public forum, I have purposely NOT shared quite a bit of stuff.

One thing is that my nephew is VERY well taken care of. Different members of our family see to that. I purposely haven't talked about him, but rest assured, every need he has is taken care of, and then some.

The thing about not "bailing him out right away" is actually a subject of some contention in our family right now. There are those of us who would tend to bail him out right away so that he can get back to work, and others who want him to stay in jail long enough to get the alcohol out of his system so he can start fresh.

My feeling is just what you said, that we can't MAKE my brother change just by making him sit in jail. Even if he gets the alcohol out of his system while he's in there, he could possibly walk out the jail door and head for the bar.

It's out of my hands though, because I'm not in any position to be able to bail him out.

LexieCat

I'd say it's more than a "possibilty" he will walk into a bar when he gets out--it's a virtual certainty, if he's an alcoholic. Plus he will walk out with a fresh batch of resentments at you, at the "system," at his ex... So it doesn't pay to look at his sitting in jail as something that will clean him up. It is, however, a consequence of his own actions/inactions, which is the REAL point. Unless an alcoholic is permitted to experience the consequences of what they do, they don't see that their lives are becoming unmanageable. That's why bailing them out, literally (as in your case) or figuratively (by otherwise cleaning up their messes) actually delays any motivation they might have to recover.

gerryP

I just want to say this...Merely detoxing the alcohol from his system is useless on its own. Your brother must have a concrete understanding that changes to his thinking and lifestyle need to change. More importantly, your brother must want to make these changes because he no longer wants the life he has been living. That is the hard part. I am speaking from experience and I earned that experience.

Fandy

by not bailing him out, you make it more difficult for him to walk back to the bar. by making sure your nephew is taken care of you take away the father's responisibility to be a parent.

49 years old is a good time to grow up and start taking responsiblities for your own actions...but if everyone else does it for you..why bother???

good luck and i'm glad your nephew is not suffering

vtsister

I appreciate what everyone is saying.

Our family is experiencing a lot of turmoil right now because of this. We haven't been able to agree on what to do, what might "help", or what won't.

It's unfortunate that my brother has put us all in this position in the first place, that he's causing stress and turmoil without even being here, and it all could have been avoided if he had cared to be responsible for his own obligations.