My brother went to jail today...
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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I bailed one brother out but not the other. I knew the other would never go to jail again but the other is always in and out. It is very sad. I know. I'm sorry for you. I hope you find strength.
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Location: South Jersey
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Originally Posted by vtsister 
I appreciate what everyone is saying.
Our family is experiencing a lot of turmoil right now because of this. We haven't been able to agree on what to do, what might "help", or what won't.
It's unfortunate that my brother has put us all in this position in the first place, that he's causing stress and turmoil without even being here, and it all could have been avoided if he had cared to be responsible for his own obligations.
Our family is experiencing a lot of turmoil right now because of this. We haven't been able to agree on what to do, what might "help", or what won't.
It's unfortunate that my brother has put us all in this position in the first place, that he's causing stress and turmoil without even being here, and it all could have been avoided if he had cared to be responsible for his own obligations.
Gotta get off the merry-go-round.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7
Speaking for myself ...
I've been watching this thread for the past 24 hours and have to jump in.
I am the sister who has the means to bail this person ("M") out of jail.
The only reasons I decided NOT to bail him out are:
a. His own decisions/actions/choices put him where he is. This ain't his first rodeo; the contempt hearing after which he was jailed this week was his FOURTH.
b. I told him the last time he came to me with his hand out for money to stay out of jail for non-payment of support (December 2010, $800) that it would be the last time if I didn't get it back. I didn't get it back; therefore, I kept my boundary and told him "Sorry, but no" when he called from jail this morning. (I could tell from the disbelief in his voice that he is SHOCKED; I know he was counting on us to take pity on him and run right down to the courthouse as soon as we got the call that he was under arrest, despite the fact that he'd been told that I was the only one who could do it and I'd already told him no.)
The fact that he may have some time to dry out/think while he's in there is only a possible side benefit. It is NOT in my mind the purpose.
I agree 100% that it is those of us on the outside who are keeping the drama/chaos going. If we could all just stay strong and keep our boundaries, we'd all be better off. Instead, some rethink, waver, ponder, feel sorry, etc etc etc, and want to just throw up their hands and get him out to make OUR pain go away. That's not going to do anything for M in the long run. As so many of you have said, it's this kind of "help" that has helped him into the situation he's in now.
The bottom line here is that M saw this coming for miles before it came. Every one of the 3 previous times he went to Court for the same reason, he brought just enough cash to get by (once "borrowed" from me, once from our 78-year-old mother!), then went right back to not paying again. (This is apparently his useless attempt to show his despair at the fact that he cannot have the family he wants. We all get that.)
Every time, he was counseled to "keep current this time; then you won't have to go through this again"--but he didn't.
So my belief is that he CHOSE this result for himself. And it is not my job or obligation to "fix it", or to rescue him from feeling the consequences of his own actions.
VTSISTER feels it's stupid that he's in jail instead of out working -- but when he WAS out and able to work, he STILL wasn't paying--so ...?
I would like to just leave it as is and let him experience the consequences of his choices. IT HURTS ME TO HAVE MY BROTHER IN JAIL, TOO--I wish everyone in my family could understand that. But it's not my fault he's there.
I guess that's enough rehashing. I'm emotionally exhausted.
I am the sister who has the means to bail this person ("M") out of jail.
The only reasons I decided NOT to bail him out are:
a. His own decisions/actions/choices put him where he is. This ain't his first rodeo; the contempt hearing after which he was jailed this week was his FOURTH.
b. I told him the last time he came to me with his hand out for money to stay out of jail for non-payment of support (December 2010, $800) that it would be the last time if I didn't get it back. I didn't get it back; therefore, I kept my boundary and told him "Sorry, but no" when he called from jail this morning. (I could tell from the disbelief in his voice that he is SHOCKED; I know he was counting on us to take pity on him and run right down to the courthouse as soon as we got the call that he was under arrest, despite the fact that he'd been told that I was the only one who could do it and I'd already told him no.)
The fact that he may have some time to dry out/think while he's in there is only a possible side benefit. It is NOT in my mind the purpose.
I agree 100% that it is those of us on the outside who are keeping the drama/chaos going. If we could all just stay strong and keep our boundaries, we'd all be better off. Instead, some rethink, waver, ponder, feel sorry, etc etc etc, and want to just throw up their hands and get him out to make OUR pain go away. That's not going to do anything for M in the long run. As so many of you have said, it's this kind of "help" that has helped him into the situation he's in now.
The bottom line here is that M saw this coming for miles before it came. Every one of the 3 previous times he went to Court for the same reason, he brought just enough cash to get by (once "borrowed" from me, once from our 78-year-old mother!), then went right back to not paying again. (This is apparently his useless attempt to show his despair at the fact that he cannot have the family he wants. We all get that.)
Every time, he was counseled to "keep current this time; then you won't have to go through this again"--but he didn't.
So my belief is that he CHOSE this result for himself. And it is not my job or obligation to "fix it", or to rescue him from feeling the consequences of his own actions.
VTSISTER feels it's stupid that he's in jail instead of out working -- but when he WAS out and able to work, he STILL wasn't paying--so ...?
I would like to just leave it as is and let him experience the consequences of his choices. IT HURTS ME TO HAVE MY BROTHER IN JAIL, TOO--I wish everyone in my family could understand that. But it's not my fault he's there.
I guess that's enough rehashing. I'm emotionally exhausted.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7
One more thing--apparently child support works differently in different States.
In our State, the custodial parent gets the support money directly from the State Office of Child Support REGARDLESS of whether the non-custodial parent is making payments.
So neither our nephew nor his mom are suffering monetarily from this, as VTSISTER said.
In our State, the custodial parent gets the support money directly from the State Office of Child Support REGARDLESS of whether the non-custodial parent is making payments.
So neither our nephew nor his mom are suffering monetarily from this, as VTSISTER said.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by LexieCat
Unless an alcoholic is permitted to experience the consequences of what they do, they don't see that their lives are becoming unmanageable. .
sending strength to both of the vtsisters.
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by vtsister
Our family is experiencing a lot of turmoil right now because of this.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...cters-1-a.html
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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vtsister2,
I think your thinking is right on the money. Yes, it is tough on everyone when the alcoholic gets himself into a jam and is looking to be rescued, and we have ALL done it. Sometimes over and over and over again.
And you are absolutely right--bailing him out is a "quick fix" for everyone's discomfort, but it doesn't help anything in the long run. I like to think of it this way. I'm in recovery for my own alcoholism (as well as having two past relationships with alcoholics). When I was still drinking, alcohol would immediately "fix" my own discomfort in almost any situation. It was very, very hard, in early sobriety, to sit with uncomfortable emotions, when I knew that a few drinks would immediately relieve the pain. Alcohol is a GREAT anaesthetic, short-term. But I had to learn to deal with the discomfort in other ways that were healthy, rather than simply avoiding it.
Same kinda deal with the families--we have to resist going for the "quick fix" of the bailout, and find healthier ways to deal with the situation.
I admire your boundaries, and the way you are sticking with them. Stay strong, you are doing the right thing, for yourself and for everyone else (including your brother).
I think your thinking is right on the money. Yes, it is tough on everyone when the alcoholic gets himself into a jam and is looking to be rescued, and we have ALL done it. Sometimes over and over and over again.
And you are absolutely right--bailing him out is a "quick fix" for everyone's discomfort, but it doesn't help anything in the long run. I like to think of it this way. I'm in recovery for my own alcoholism (as well as having two past relationships with alcoholics). When I was still drinking, alcohol would immediately "fix" my own discomfort in almost any situation. It was very, very hard, in early sobriety, to sit with uncomfortable emotions, when I knew that a few drinks would immediately relieve the pain. Alcohol is a GREAT anaesthetic, short-term. But I had to learn to deal with the discomfort in other ways that were healthy, rather than simply avoiding it.
Same kinda deal with the families--we have to resist going for the "quick fix" of the bailout, and find healthier ways to deal with the situation.
I admire your boundaries, and the way you are sticking with them. Stay strong, you are doing the right thing, for yourself and for everyone else (including your brother).
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
I'm sorry for all your pain and VTsister2 sounds like she has a plan firmly in place and is the voice of reason...(you pointed out some very wise facts, it ain't his first radio and the 4th contempt charge and that he would not pay you back, he had miles of warning)....time to screen the phone calls and try to have a peaceful quiet weekend to reduce your stress. I hope it happens.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Originally Posted by vtsister2
So my belief is that he CHOSE this result for himself. And it is not my job or obligation to "fix it", or to rescue him from feeling the consequences of his own actions.
He decided to watch the movie, and he was warned of the ending.
It is what it is - you don't get to pick the end of a movie, it's whatever was decided way in advance of filming.
Just because you didn't believe the ending was what everyone said it was, doesn't mean it can be what you want it to be instead.
You are not responsible for the consequences of his actions, he is, so there is no requirement to rescue him from them.
Stay strong. I recognize it must be difficult, considering that the people begging you to reconsider are your family. It is the best thing for you, and for him.
I do have to make one comment...
I did notice that you chose the screen name vtsister2 rather than choosing your own, meaning you're using a screen name that's more about your sister and this drama (and your sister is using a screen name linking herself more to the drama and your brother). It shows how stressful this whole thing is, and how much you're caught up in it.
I'd suggest you go do something completely for yourself, completely separate from all the drama right now. Go find the lovely woman who is currently in hiding. You deserve it.
I'd say be strong, but you already are doing that, so I'll just say that you're not alone. The details are different, but the very basic story and all the emotions that come with it are something you'll find repeated endlessly across this forum.
You're not crazy. We understand. You're not alone.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
Welcome Vtsister2.
What we learn in this forum, and in our recovery as family/friend of an addict, is that we cannot do for either the alcoholic OR the enablers around them. They must learn from their own paths and consequences.
We are only able to manage ourself, and direct our life and decisions toward what is healthiest for ourself.
The truths of addiction can be boiled down to a few mere sentences, but to truly internalize them and wrap our heads around them can take a lot of pain and experience. Addiction is often counter-intuitive from what happens in normal, healthy systems, and particularly in families, the instinct is not to let a family member suffer or be in pain.
An addict begins to think about stopping when (in recovery we call this "unmanageable"):
- They believe their addiction is not survivable, and they WANT to survive, or
- They believe the pain of continuing will be greater than the pain of stopping.
I hope you will join us - it takes a surprising amount of support, encouragement, learning, and experience to learn how to navigate the presence of addiction in one's life or family, and to understand that ALL around an addict are damaged from this disease.
CLMI
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
vtsister2, (((hugs))) and welcome.
I agree with what everyone else has posted. You are displaying strength and wisdom in setting your boundaries.
You may want to consider attending some al-anon meetings. It is a great place where you can begin working on you. I know from my experiences of dealing with my AW how much damage was done to me and I didn't realize it until everything finally fell apart. This site and al-anon have been life savers, literally.
Your friend,
I agree with what everyone else has posted. You are displaying strength and wisdom in setting your boundaries.
You may want to consider attending some al-anon meetings. It is a great place where you can begin working on you. I know from my experiences of dealing with my AW how much damage was done to me and I didn't realize it until everything finally fell apart. This site and al-anon have been life savers, literally.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by vtsister2
So my belief is that he CHOSE this result for himself. And it is not my job or obligation to "fix it", or to rescue him from feeling the consequences of his own actions.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
So what do you do when you find yourselves at odds with each other over what should be done? If there's anything I don't want, it's to be in disagreement with my sister, Vtsister2. We are very close, and I don't want this thing with my brother to damage our relationship.
After reading the replies left for my sister, it's clear that you all believe she is doing the right thing, and I am not; and since I am not in a position to bail out my brother, I guess I should just shut up and try not to be involved in whatever's going to happen, whether he stays in or gets out early.
I got word last night that my daughter will be moving back here, and will need to stay with us, so that means my brother will have to move out anyway.
He may still be in jail when my daughter arrives, so I'll need to pack his things and get them moved to wherever he plans to go.
I don't know if this will mean a completely fresh start for him, or if it will just add more stress to his life.
After reading the replies left for my sister, it's clear that you all believe she is doing the right thing, and I am not; and since I am not in a position to bail out my brother, I guess I should just shut up and try not to be involved in whatever's going to happen, whether he stays in or gets out early.
I got word last night that my daughter will be moving back here, and will need to stay with us, so that means my brother will have to move out anyway.
He may still be in jail when my daughter arrives, so I'll need to pack his things and get them moved to wherever he plans to go.
I don't know if this will mean a completely fresh start for him, or if it will just add more stress to his life.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
Originally Posted by vtsister
I don't know if this will mean a completely fresh start for him, or if it will just add more stress to his life.
So here's the deal with addiction - he's not going to think about changing UNTIL HE HAS ENOUGH STRESS in his life that his life becomes unmanageable.
Sometimes, we have to look at the paradigms from which we operate, and see if they work within the system in which we reside.
In the case of addiction, the addiction must become unmanageable for the stranglehold to break, and for the addict to want earnestly to change and become willing to do whatever it takes to change.
This forum has thousands, tens of thousands, of folks who have come to this same conclusion, through PAINFUL experience. We all have our own road to get there...
Sending encouragement,
CLMI
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
This is a tough spot for you and your sister. It sounds like your family is very loving and everyone wants what is best for your brother, you just disagree what it might be.
Can you just stop there. It's not a matter of right or wrong.
Don't let this difference of opinion divide your family. No need to have a bunch of "should have's" arise from this situation and cast a cloud over the future.
Wishing all of you the best.
Can you just stop there. It's not a matter of right or wrong.
Don't let this difference of opinion divide your family. No need to have a bunch of "should have's" arise from this situation and cast a cloud over the future.
Wishing all of you the best.
Last edited by wellnowwhat; 07-22-2011 at 07:38 AM. Reason: gave advice, not my place.
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Texas, USA
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Originally Posted by vtsister
Yes, he's used to having somebody in the family rescue him from whatever bind he gets himself into. Once in awhile he'll actually pay some money back that someone has lent him, but usually it doesn't seem to bother him to take the money and never get around to repaying it.
He got behind on child support, and got sent to jail for it this time. I don't know how throwing a guy in jail is supposed to enable him to pay his child support faster, but since the law is on the books, my brother should have known better than to take a chance that he would end up in jail.
He got behind on child support, and got sent to jail for it this time. I don't know how throwing a guy in jail is supposed to enable him to pay his child support faster, but since the law is on the books, my brother should have known better than to take a chance that he would end up in jail.
Welcome to SR. You will find some great tools for family recovery right here. The focus will be on you and your path.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
vtsister, this isn't a matter of right or wrong. If you read here for a while you will soon realize that there are plenty of different opinions on how to do things.
One thing you will also see is that the majority of us agree with the al-anon guidelines that we have no control over the alcoholics behavior and we are not responsible for their actions and consequences. Let go and let god. Its more than just a saying.
I will make the same recommendation to you that I did to your sister, that you go to some al-anon meetings also. I did not realize how much damage I inflicted on myself trying to help my AW until it all fell apart. At al-anon I was given a set of tools that helped my manage my life in a sane and health way.
Your friend,
One thing you will also see is that the majority of us agree with the al-anon guidelines that we have no control over the alcoholics behavior and we are not responsible for their actions and consequences. Let go and let god. Its more than just a saying.
I will make the same recommendation to you that I did to your sister, that you go to some al-anon meetings also. I did not realize how much damage I inflicted on myself trying to help my AW until it all fell apart. At al-anon I was given a set of tools that helped my manage my life in a sane and health way.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
it may be much less stressful for YOU to have him out of your daily routine.
He will have to decide for himself where he lives, how he handles HIS life...this is something all of us adults do...we make our own decisions.
He will have to decide for himself where he lives, how he handles HIS life...this is something all of us adults do...we make our own decisions.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Originally Posted by vtsister
So what do you do when you find yourselves at odds with each other over what should be done? If there's anything I don't want, it's to be in disagreement with my sister, Vtsister2. We are very close, and I don't want this thing with my brother to damage our relationship.
Be gentle on yourself, for this is a very tough situation. I understand your anxiety about this. You ask what should be done. Since you , fortunately, are unable to bail him out, that does take the temptation away from you. So really, the only thing you need to be doing , imho, is taking care of you.
Your brother needs to be the one trying to fix his situation. He can speak to lawyers, friends, look at where he needs to live, etc. This is his problem, caused by his choices, and no matter how much it hurts you, since you love him, it is still not your problem to fix. Perhaps you can think about the serenity prayer. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
I got word last night that my daughter will be moving back here, and will need to stay with us, so that means my brother will have to move out anyway.
He may still be in jail when my daughter arrives, so I'll need to pack his things and get them moved to wherever he plans to go.
I don't know if this will mean a completely fresh start for him, or if it will just add more stress to his life.
He may still be in jail when my daughter arrives, so I'll need to pack his things and get them moved to wherever he plans to go.
I don't know if this will mean a completely fresh start for him, or if it will just add more stress to his life.
I am in a similar situation, and don't have a lot of room to talk, but that is why I am here, and working on a solution. I wish you the best. You should not have to be affected by his choices. Detachment is great.
if you can get a copy of "Codependent No More", by Melody Beaty, you may find it very very helpful and comforting.
hugs
chicory
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