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Old 06-20-2011, 02:59 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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H-ll..... You have every right to be upset. You have every right to acknowledge that you're upset. It's healthy to do that. Much better than burying our heads in the sand, la, la, la, la, la. As I'm told often, sit with the feeling, acknowledge it, it'll lose it's immediacy and be just a feeling.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:02 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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I can relate to your feelings. My AH is consistently blaming ME for moving to the guest room, not being a friend, etc. etc. When I point out his drinking issues, he quacks and quacks. It's miserable.

Someone told me I should just yank the tooth out rather deal with the pain and discomfort. I liked that analogy.

Every once in a while, I get a glimmer of a look of his that reminds of his old self and it really throws me. But for every one of those, there are at least 50 ridiculous things said or done by him.

It's so hard to call it all off. I totally get you on that.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty View Post
As I'm told often, sit with the feeling, acknowledge it, it'll lose it's immediacy and be just a feeling.
Good point. I've been instructed to do the same thing. Let the emotion do it's thing. That way it doesn't get buried under too much rational/conceptualization. The chances of something triggering an upsetting emotion that you forgot or didn't know was there, is less if you let yourself be emotional.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:25 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by anvilhead View Post
you got me curious......how long did you two date before he "conned" you into marrying him?

sounds like even back then you listened to words instead of watched actions......if all he had to do was make promises and you threw your lot in with him. you had a choice. THIS was your choice. now you can choose to exit and move on. that's the power YOU hold. not waiting for him......haven't you done that long enough? take your power back.
Two years. TWO YEARS! We've been married now for close to another 2 years - the longest two years of my life. Seems like the facade just *poof* went away about a week after the marriage and the sh!t hit the fan. I was in counseling 2 months after the wedding. The thing is - there was action to back the words...enough to be able to point at and say "this is action".

I knew he drank a lot. But I didn't realize just how much "a lot " really was. He was a good hider. I wasn't a looker anyway. I let him live his own life with as much freedom as possible because that is how I lived mine. I had no idea he hacked into my emails regularly, and opened my mail, and monitored my cell phone call log and internet activity. No idea. Talk about paranoid!

My head was so buried in the sand...I didn't see a lot of things. Like how long a trip to the store took. an hour? Wal Mart is a block away from our neighborhood. I didn't realize the mouthwash in his car was to cover his alcohol and pot breath. I truly thought he was concerned about bad breath.

He conned my whole family, and my Mom is a retired LMFT with an addictions specialty. The drinking began in earnest as soon as the ink was dry on the certificate. So did the controlling behavior, the criticism, the emotional abuse. when we were dating and early in living together, he was just as he presented himself to be...a really wonderful, caring, generous man.

I miss that man. So much. The man he is now is unrecognizable. He is a stranger to me. I don't like him; there is nothing likable. Nothing.

Guys, I am mainly venting out my sadness and frustration. I know in the end, the choice is mine to make. I actually have my side of the dissolution papers filled out. I sent them to him last month. He has yet to get them back to me. My next step is filing 'contested' and having him served. I'll get my divorce, one way or another. My state doesn't force us to stay married.

I am just really sad about it today.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:35 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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When its over, it's over, marriage itself is a financial arrangement. You can love another without getting married. Divorce is nothing but dividing up the assets and ironing out the child care issues. That's it. When divorce is contemplated the emotion side of the relationship has already been addressed.

You seem to be hooked on the fact that you never wanted to be divorced again. Well, the only way to insure that, is to never get married again. Once you marry, you are risking everything, there are no guarantees.

I am sorry that you are upset, although I do not understand why, to me, it doesn't make any difference who files, my mindset is, get it over and move forward with my life. I do not want to keep myself in a self imposed prison with invisable bars.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:36 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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I don't know him, but I tend to doubt he deliberately "conned" you, knowing he had no intention of being the kind of partner you wanted. Alcoholics are great for having the best of intentions, but sorely lacking in the ability to follow through.

You are accusing him of being a martyr, and you may well be right, but what about you? Are you just a passive victim, yourself? You want him to file, so you can justly be perceived to be the abandoned one? Not trying to be harsh or mean, but sometimes we have to look at our own role in these situations.

Does it really matter so much who let down whom? He is not someone you want to spend your life with. If, if, if it were different, well, then, it would be different. We wouldn't be having this discussion. It is what it is.

It seems to me that for you to wait him out is cutting off your own nose to spite your face. The longer you stay in this situation, the more bitter you will become. Not a pleasant way to start off a new life.

Personally, I would sooner be the person who takes action than the one who is "done to." If all you are holding out for is on general principle, I think you are only hurting yourself.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:45 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
I don't know him, but I tend to doubt he deliberately "conned" you, knowing he had no intention of being the kind of partner you wanted. Alcoholics are great for having the best of intentions, but sorely lacking in the ability to follow through.

You are accusing him of being a martyr, and you may well be right, but what about you? Are you just a passive victim, yourself? You want him to file, so you can justly be perceived to be the abandoned one? Not trying to be harsh or mean, but sometimes we have to look at our own role in these situations.

Does it really matter so much who let down whom? He is not someone you want to spend your life with. If, if, if it were different, well, then, it would be different. We wouldn't be having this discussion. It is what it is.

It seems to me that for you to wait him out is cutting off your own nose to spite your face. The longer you stay in this situation, the more bitter you will become. Not a pleasant way to start off a new life.

Personally, I would sooner be the person who takes action than the one who is "done to." If all you are holding out for is on general principle, I think you are only hurting yourself.
Thanks Lexie. Harsh yes, mean no. I understand what you are saying. Good points to make! I can do harsh, no worries.

I think for me, it would be one act of personal responsibility on his part. Just one. Show me just one, even if it is filing the papers. Just one admittance that you have a responsibility to me and this marriage. Maybe then I could find a shred of respect.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:38 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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I always come out on the losing end of power struggles, so I work really hard at not engaging in them anymore.

I make choices based on what is best for me and my recovery these days, regardless of what someone else is/isn't doing.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:40 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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I don't think alcoholics are capable what you just asked for - it is too much to ask for you to expect him to "have a responsibility to {you} and this marriage". Dont let your self respect being defined by HIS actions. Define them within.

Hang in there. Have him served and let the rest work itself out. I am saying all this to you because I have been you (and not so long ago!) - waiting for my AH to do something to show me he cared about our relationship.

Hugs to you, prayers for you, and better days ahead -
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:56 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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I know that feeling of wanting him to take SOME responsibility, but you could be waiting forever on that one. And even if he did, so you could "respect" him (or at least have a shred of it), would that really make you feel better about divorcing him? Or would it make it a temptation to stay to see what other changes might be on the horizon?

It's a tough place to be, where you are right now. Just try to keep in the forefront of your thoughts what is BEST FOR TG. Not what's best for him, not what would give you the temporary satisfaction of being "right". But what is truly the best, kindest thing you can do for yourself.

Hugs,
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:38 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Thanks guys. Anvil, your post made me teary-eyed. I have developed a pretty neat friendship with my first ex - the kids Dad. We are working to get him up here for HS graduation next spring. It's nice to be away from the RAH and know I can have my 1st Ex here without drama and conflict. He can even stay at my house - because its MY house.

jds - I have been moving on. But...well..ummmm...I did meet someone. Ok, ok, I really am not interested in dating, per se. But I did find him very attractive and we had a great conversation and we've been talking since then and damn it! Damn it! Damn timing! But I am enjoying being asked My opinion and MY thoughts and being told I am a neat person. We are not "dating" but we have been talking. And I don't feel guilty at all - but I do feel stuck whenever I think about what pursuing this further could look like.

Lexie, yes, the best, kindest thing for me would be for me to let me off the hook on this one. Emphasis on me let myself off the hook. I did the best I could. I showed up for this marriage, but its been one hand clapping the entire two years. I can't do one hand clapping - it makes me look and feel foolish! ; ) And it is a HUGE waste of my precious years left on this planet.

I have been praying for strength on this one for over a month. Today I took the first step. I did block his number from calling or texting me. I filtered his emails from hitting my inbox. I am cutting him off - communication stops today. No more crazy making behavior from this guy. I have an appt with my therapist tomorrow. I have a meeting tonight. I have my books, my new house, my many DIY projects in the queue. I have a family who loves me and shows it. I have two awesome kids, a great job, two neurotic dogs who do bring me great joy in their dysfunction. The RAH is becoming a bother. A PITA. I see the game clearly now. And for the game to end, I need to stop playing. Just. Stop. Playing.

*SIGH*
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:46 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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I always believe that when people are ready for a drastic change, nothing will stop them.

It took me a long time to realize that who my son's dad was on a day to day basis is the person he is. I'd challenge you to think that you knew him. This IS him. Sad I know but I came to that realization with my son's dad and it hurt. But it was also freeing.

I had to grieve the loss of the dream though, the family, the ideal spouse. The things I NEVER had. I still had to grieve them.

There is nothing that says if people divorce that they can't reconnect or even remarry. Maybe you are putting some type of magical power on the filing process when its just papers that are stamped at the court house

I think when you get the point of letting go of the dream then you will be ready to file.

He was never that person. I'm sorry to say that but this IS who he is. And he is making you miserable. You deserve to be happy.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:48 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl View Post
Thanks guys. Anvil, your post made me teary-eyed. I have developed a pretty neat friendship with my first ex - the kids Dad. We are working to get him up here for HS graduation next spring. It's nice to be away from the RAH and know I can have my 1st Ex here without drama and conflict. He can even stay at my house - because its MY house.

jds - I have been moving on. But...well..ummmm...I did meet someone. Ok, ok, I really am not interested in dating, per se. But I did find him very attractive and we had a great conversation and we've been talking since then and damn it! Damn it! Damn timing! But I am enjoying being asked My opinion and MY thoughts and being told I am a neat person. We are not "dating" but we have been talking. And I don't feel guilty at all - but I do feel stuck whenever I think about what pursuing this further could look like.

Lexie, yes, the best, kindest thing for me would be for me to let me off the hook on this one. Emphasis on me let myself off the hook. I did the best I could. I showed up for this marriage, but its been one hand clapping the entire two years. I can't do one hand clapping - it makes me look and feel foolish! ; ) And it is a HUGE waste of my precious years left on this planet.

I have been praying for strength on this one for over a month. Today I took the first step. I did block his number from calling or texting me. I filtered his emails from hitting my inbox. I am cutting him off - communication stops today. No more crazy making behavior from this guy. I have an appt with my therapist tomorrow. I have a meeting tonight. I have my books, my new house, my many DIY projects in the queue. I have a family who loves me and shows it. I have two awesome kids, a great job, two neurotic dogs who do bring me great joy in their dysfunction. The RAH is becoming a bother. A PITA. I see the game clearly now. And for the game to end, I need to stop playing. Just. Stop. Playing.

*SIGH*
I suspected you might have found a 'reason' to want to move on and there was a reason you felt stuck.

So, there it is.

You can only do what you need to do.

I've thought about my recent separation from exABF, and we haven't defined anything 'together' and I wonder if sometime down the road I may want to make myself available to be and have a partner in life. I figured I'd revisit this subject in six months and if I'm not ready then, give myself whatever time I think I'll need then.

Between now and then, I'm genuinely focused on my life and my little son's life.'s

Cycles in life are different for everyone, so only you can decide what's best for you. But let me ask you this: How have things worked out when you've let RAH make all the decisions for your life? What does history tell you? And when you say 'it makes it look like TG was the bad one for filing first', can you explain WHO It looks like this to? Is there some board of directors for this sort of thing?

Ok, I'm done.

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Old 06-20-2011, 06:57 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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I understand...

"I want the marriage I thought I was getting." I understand-- but you aren't going to get it from this man. Ever. YOU KNOW THIS.

"Should I go ahead and file? I can file contested where he simply gets served papers. Is there any point in waiting...given he wants nothing to do with me?" Yes you should. There is no point in waiting and you know it TOO.


"If I continue to wait, I hold myself back from living my own life..." Yes, you are. You are holding yourself back, and it may be holding back the girls too, not to mention what they are witnessing.

"... but I also feel a bit chapped that I will be giving him exactly what he wants, more ammunition to blame me with. For example, "Well YOU are the one who divorced ME" said with a sneer and dripping with contempt. I can see it now." Good God, so the **** what? It doesn't matter who "wins." There are no winners here. Cut your losses, thank God you've got two great gals, your own house, and the rest of your **** together and move on with what can be an amazing life in Alaska.

"How do I remove myself from this power struggle as cleanly and painlessly as possible? Thoughts? Suggestions?" File the papers and go through with the divorce no matter what.

God I wish I didn't think so highly of you. I've really had to hold back. There are about twenty Good Gods that went untyped.

Cyranoak
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:19 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak View Post
"I want the marriage I thought I was getting." I understand-- but you aren't going to get it from this man. Ever. YOU KNOW THIS.

"Should I go ahead and file? I can file contested where he simply gets served papers. Is there any point in waiting...given he wants nothing to do with me?" Yes you should. There is no point in waiting and you know it TOO.


"If I continue to wait, I hold myself back from living my own life..." Yes, you are. You are holding yourself back, and it may be holding back the girls too, not to mention what they are witnessing.

"... but I also feel a bit chapped that I will be giving him exactly what he wants, more ammunition to blame me with. For example, "Well YOU are the one who divorced ME" said with a sneer and dripping with contempt. I can see it now." Good God, so the **** what? It doesn't matter who "wins." There are no winners here. Cut your losses, thank God you've got two great gals, your own house, and the rest of your **** together and move on with what can be an amazing life in Alaska.

"How do I remove myself from this power struggle as cleanly and painlessly as possible? Thoughts? Suggestions?" File the papers and go through with the divorce no matter what.

God I wish I didn't think so highly of you. I've really had to hold back. There are about twenty Good Gods that went untyped.

Cyranoak
I can always count on you for the b*tch-slap upside the head. Yeah - welcome to my process. It's been a long time coming. No, its not completely rational on my part. Yes, rationally I know what my option is (IS is the operative word - only one option left). No, its not what I thought I was signing on for and that is hard to give up. Yes I know I am being played in typical alcoholic fashion. Yes, I am sick of it. He is wrecking my serenity and I am allowing it to happen. Yes, Good God Tuffgirl!

There. Said it for you!
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:32 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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Hi TuffGirl. I just read through this whole thread and love seeing your process. Because I suspect we all go through this type of analysis and sometimes it just helps get our thoughts straight to talk it out.

I understand that you want him to file so he takes some responsibility. However, it seems to me that is wishing he was a unicorn when he's really a broken down, swaybacked, old nag. It is what it is, he is who he is. Waiting for him to be the one to file could be waiting for the proverbial cold day in hell. I also don't think there is a person on the planet (except maybe RAH) who will give a rat's a** who filed, who technically left who. Fact is, he left two years years ago...in spirit, if not in body.

Look at all you've accomplished for you in the past few months. Give yourself the gift of untying this final knot and 100% living YOUR life as YOU see fit. You've had enough heartache...it's time for your heart to freely and joyously sing. And I didn't even have to borrow one of Cyranoak's "Good God's."
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:07 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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You will know, when it's time to set YOURSELF FREE!!!

Obviously, you havent purchased a new pair of cheetah pants yet, like I told you to do!

I think some of your struggles were like mine,(Denial)
accepting & realizing...They are alcoholics!

We dont want to believe it, We want the man who we married
I faced the facts, the truth, mine died about 3 years ago, in a bottle

Hell yeah, I miss the man I married.
Do I miss this person he has become? Hell no

Death is hard to deal with, especially losing them to a freaking bottle

Now, go get a pair of them snappy cheetah pants!

LIVE LIFE!!! --- It's actually alot of fun!!!
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:25 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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I have to laugh at this title, because a hardware store(well, home improvement store really) here DOES sell bread! There is a small grocery section in the store now, prices reasonable too.

I too want the marriage I once had, but I know I'll never have it again, so I'm getting over it.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:40 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Haha - thanks all for the laugh this morning. Bella, I love your description! BobbyJ, working on those cheetah pants. I did buy a cheetah print shirt and some black pants that are pretty form fitting...step 1, right?!

Pix, you must live in a small town. I have grocery stores that have a hardware section, but nothing the other way around. I envision that 'hardware' store as being the typical old-guy store that smells of saw dust and has about 8 aisles with one whole aisle dedicated to nothing but screws of all types.

I spoke briefly to an old-timer last night in Al-Anon. She is married to a long sober A. I explained what I am dealing with here and her take on it was firstly: don't take it personally. He is probably still completely lying to himself. Why would someone break that 20 year habit in 7 months? Secondly, like Anvil has pointed out here in the past, 7 months off alcohol is only 7 months...the brain still feels the effects and can be in a 'fog'. Lastly...I don't know if he has stopped drinking yet. She didn't think so. As a matter of fact, none of the RA's I've talked to so far think this guy is totally sober, based on what I describe. Granted, its all hearsay but still...

She said wait - make decisions in peace, not in conflict. Well, stopping all communication felt peaceful. Felt right. For me.

I can wait a bit to file the papers. Wait for the peaceful feeling. Where I don't need to put it out there as a question to the world...I'll just know it is time to do the next right thing.

I feel better today - like a weight is lifting (or maybe the ball and chain feeling is getting much smaller now!)
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:45 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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Well, I DO live in a small town now(with the type of hardware store you are thinking of, it's located in a 100+year old building too) but the store I'm talking about is in the big city, it's called Menard's(midwest chain) and both of the stores in the area have the grocery section.
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