No lectures for a little bit please
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It's looking to me like I may just have to file for divorce, get the financial obligation for him set (he's spending like mad) and deal with what will come. I do not have a contract for next yr yet and not being financially independent is not going to look fab for me for primary custody... But as I think this through, waiting any longer is just going to make things worse...
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Oh- anyone with legal thoughts, feel free to chime in but I've now asked 2 lawyers (the crazy one I fired and the new one who's great) about the drinking while he's with them charge. They've told me that unless I have evidence (not sure how to get that since we don't have a hidden camera) it's not going to help me to say that.
I do have a journal, I document everything, I took photos of the bottle and where it was and have done so each time I find something for a while now... Hopefully that will help.
I do have a journal, I document everything, I took photos of the bottle and where it was and have done so each time I find something for a while now... Hopefully that will help.
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Get a hidden camera.
He sounds like a loose cannon who can't be trusted; would you let a babysitter do this? Certainly not. His behavior is leading you to uncomfortable consequences. The only difference is that now, you're really in charge of what those consequences are.
He swears? You hang up.
He blames? You leave the room.
He drinks around the kids and lies about it? You get it on film and take it to a lawyer.
I don't mean to be flip, I know this is brutally hard. The steps are simple to execute, but very difficult when you lost your moxie years ago. It'll come back.
- Sylvie
He sounds like a loose cannon who can't be trusted; would you let a babysitter do this? Certainly not. His behavior is leading you to uncomfortable consequences. The only difference is that now, you're really in charge of what those consequences are.
He swears? You hang up.
He blames? You leave the room.
He drinks around the kids and lies about it? You get it on film and take it to a lawyer.
I don't mean to be flip, I know this is brutally hard. The steps are simple to execute, but very difficult when you lost your moxie years ago. It'll come back.
- Sylvie
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa 
Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I would think substance abuse trumps unemployment when it comes to custody issues.........
L
L
So, I was waiting til I had a contract in hand to go fast fwd with the divorce but I don't think I can afford to anymore.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
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does your phone take video? that is simple enough. the worst thing he could do is KNOW that you are documenting and stop drinking around the children or *gasp*, LEAVE. (that is if he is visiting them in your house).
no one would grant him full custody just because you are not employed. Your attorney will insure that it is known that you are the responsible parent.
If he is "spending like mad"...he may be doing it on purpose.
no one would grant him full custody just because you are not employed. Your attorney will insure that it is known that you are the responsible parent.
If he is "spending like mad"...he may be doing it on purpose.
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ugh- this is getting overwhelming... okay, step 1. I will not be answering calls today. I will get the girls. Tomorrow the girls and I are going out of town (already planned). Sunday I will deal with when Sunday comes.
My thought right now is if he does not call or contact me about arranging time to see the girls, I'll just keep quiet. In the past I've tracked him down to see if he wants to see them.
Thinking that's not such a smart idea.
My thought right now is if he does not call or contact me about arranging time to see the girls, I'll just keep quiet. In the past I've tracked him down to see if he wants to see them.
Thinking that's not such a smart idea.
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In the past I've tracked him down to see if he wants to see them.
Thinking that's not such a smart idea.
Thinking that's not such a smart idea.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 821
If all you have right now is a journal try to be very specific.
My lawyer said something that stuck.
Courts want to see facts, not conclusions.
You've concluded he's a drunk. Back that up. What do I mean?
It was suggested to me to write in my journal like this. Ignore the stuff in parenthesis. I'm just making it easy to see how I may have written something to how I write it now.
She was drunk last night.(Conclusion)
(Facts)She finished off the already opened bottle of Layer Cake wine which was at 50% full. Then she drank an entire bottle of GnarlyHead in 30 minutes before diner. It was only 5:30. She was visibly drunk, did not make diner and wasn't willing to give her son a bath. After I made diner for everyone, cleaned the kitchen and gave my boy a bath and put him to bed, I retired to my mancave. When I returned to our room at roughly 9pm, the wife was unable to form words, couldn't stand and ultimately passed out.
or
My wife was hammered last night.(Conclusion)
(Facts) The stash she keeps in the closet had half a 1.75 liter of Grey Goose Vodka in it yesterday. I checked tonight and it was empty.
or
The Bottle of Vodka I found in the laundry room was marked at 25% full this morning at 6am. When I got home from kung fu classes at 9am, it was roughly 75% full. After further inspection, it was water.
See what I'm doing? Times. Amounts. Details. Facts.
You can bet your ass that he's not keeping a journal and when pressed for data, he can't give any. The courts know this. It's not their first rodeo.
Cameras and voice recording devices are admissible in court, per my location and attorney's advise.
Don't let the fact that all you have is a journal stop you from moving forward with your plan. There are ways to do it.
My lawyer said something that stuck.
Courts want to see facts, not conclusions.
You've concluded he's a drunk. Back that up. What do I mean?
It was suggested to me to write in my journal like this. Ignore the stuff in parenthesis. I'm just making it easy to see how I may have written something to how I write it now.
She was drunk last night.(Conclusion)
(Facts)She finished off the already opened bottle of Layer Cake wine which was at 50% full. Then she drank an entire bottle of GnarlyHead in 30 minutes before diner. It was only 5:30. She was visibly drunk, did not make diner and wasn't willing to give her son a bath. After I made diner for everyone, cleaned the kitchen and gave my boy a bath and put him to bed, I retired to my mancave. When I returned to our room at roughly 9pm, the wife was unable to form words, couldn't stand and ultimately passed out.
or
My wife was hammered last night.(Conclusion)
(Facts) The stash she keeps in the closet had half a 1.75 liter of Grey Goose Vodka in it yesterday. I checked tonight and it was empty.
or
The Bottle of Vodka I found in the laundry room was marked at 25% full this morning at 6am. When I got home from kung fu classes at 9am, it was roughly 75% full. After further inspection, it was water.
See what I'm doing? Times. Amounts. Details. Facts.
You can bet your ass that he's not keeping a journal and when pressed for data, he can't give any. The courts know this. It's not their first rodeo.
Cameras and voice recording devices are admissible in court, per my location and attorney's advise.
Don't let the fact that all you have is a journal stop you from moving forward with your plan. There are ways to do it.
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Hey wttbh,
this is not a lecture, but you might think about WHY you sought out his converation or didn't hang up when he turned abusive:
I just saw myself in your lines. Even though I knew not to engage (touching a hot stove), I did it over an over for several reasons, despite the hurt it caused me:
1. I wanted to see SOME emotional reaction from him. If I could make him mad, it showed me that he was still engaged with me on some level.
2. I wanted to MAKE HIM SEE what he was doing to us (convince him that I and the kids were worth more than he thought.)
3. Have an arena for my own venting and accusations and anger. (almost a form of entertainment for me).
4. If we were fighting, it proved to me that I was real. I existed. I was not invisible.
If you can consider why you might be engaging him in battle, then maybe you can identify the stimulus in you that causes you to do it:
lonely?
feel insignificant?
feel shadowy (I struggle with this)?
is uncertainty about your future causing you to reach out for whatever you can grasp?
Obviously you are scared about what the future holds without him for you and your girls, and you should expect the uncertainty, but I can promise you ONE THING: It doesn't have to hold abuse.
That is just something I have learned in the two years since I stepped away from the hot stove. I was exactly like you. Except with more kids.
I had to get to the point where having NO ONE to talk to, NO CERTAINTY AT ALL, NO SECURITY was better than enduring one more minute of blame and accusation. And I finally did.
You are doing great.
this is not a lecture, but you might think about WHY you sought out his converation or didn't hang up when he turned abusive:
I just saw myself in your lines. Even though I knew not to engage (touching a hot stove), I did it over an over for several reasons, despite the hurt it caused me:
1. I wanted to see SOME emotional reaction from him. If I could make him mad, it showed me that he was still engaged with me on some level.
2. I wanted to MAKE HIM SEE what he was doing to us (convince him that I and the kids were worth more than he thought.)
3. Have an arena for my own venting and accusations and anger. (almost a form of entertainment for me).
4. If we were fighting, it proved to me that I was real. I existed. I was not invisible.
If you can consider why you might be engaging him in battle, then maybe you can identify the stimulus in you that causes you to do it:
lonely?
feel insignificant?
feel shadowy (I struggle with this)?
is uncertainty about your future causing you to reach out for whatever you can grasp?
Obviously you are scared about what the future holds without him for you and your girls, and you should expect the uncertainty, but I can promise you ONE THING: It doesn't have to hold abuse.
That is just something I have learned in the two years since I stepped away from the hot stove. I was exactly like you. Except with more kids.
I had to get to the point where having NO ONE to talk to, NO CERTAINTY AT ALL, NO SECURITY was better than enduring one more minute of blame and accusation. And I finally did.
You are doing great.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
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Try not to beat yourself up too much. So you didn't hang up - old habits are hard to break.
He's been beating on you verbally and emotionally. You don't need to join in. This is something I did with XAH. I helped him destroy my self esteem. You know you deserve better intellectually. Rely on it. Your emotions will 'catch up' eventually! Abusive X's are good at laying on the blame, nice and thick and I know I was so very good at taking it all on when I didn't need to. No one deserves to be treated the way he has treated you - no one deserves to be abused. No one.
Keep taking care of you and taking one step at a time. You are worth the struggle hon.
He's been beating on you verbally and emotionally. You don't need to join in. This is something I did with XAH. I helped him destroy my self esteem. You know you deserve better intellectually. Rely on it. Your emotions will 'catch up' eventually! Abusive X's are good at laying on the blame, nice and thick and I know I was so very good at taking it all on when I didn't need to. No one deserves to be treated the way he has treated you - no one deserves to be abused. No one.
Keep taking care of you and taking one step at a time. You are worth the struggle hon.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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Originally Posted by stella27
Hey wttbh,
this is not a lecture, but you might think about WHY you sought out his converation or didn't hang up when he turned abusive:
I just saw myself in your lines. Even though I knew not to engage (touching a hot stove), I did it over an over for several reasons, despite the hurt it caused me:
1. I wanted to see SOME emotional reaction from him. If I could make him mad, it showed me that he was still engaged with me on some level.
2. I wanted to MAKE HIM SEE what he was doing to us (convince him that I and the kids were worth more than he thought.)
3. Have an arena for my own venting and accusations and anger. (almost a form of entertainment for me).
4. If we were fighting, it proved to me that I was real. I existed. I was not invisible.
If you can consider why you might be engaging him in battle, then maybe you can identify the stimulus in you that causes you to do it:
lonely?
feel insignificant?
feel shadowy (I struggle with this)?
is uncertainty about your future causing you to reach out for whatever you can grasp?
Obviously you are scared about what the future holds without him for you and your girls, and you should expect the uncertainty, but I can promise you ONE THING: It doesn't have to hold abuse.
That is just something I have learned in the two years since I stepped away from the hot stove. I was exactly like you. Except with more kids.
I had to get to the point where having NO ONE to talk to, NO CERTAINTY AT ALL, NO SECURITY was better than enduring one more minute of blame and accusation. And I finally did.
You are doing great.
this is not a lecture, but you might think about WHY you sought out his converation or didn't hang up when he turned abusive:
I just saw myself in your lines. Even though I knew not to engage (touching a hot stove), I did it over an over for several reasons, despite the hurt it caused me:
1. I wanted to see SOME emotional reaction from him. If I could make him mad, it showed me that he was still engaged with me on some level.
2. I wanted to MAKE HIM SEE what he was doing to us (convince him that I and the kids were worth more than he thought.)
3. Have an arena for my own venting and accusations and anger. (almost a form of entertainment for me).
4. If we were fighting, it proved to me that I was real. I existed. I was not invisible.
If you can consider why you might be engaging him in battle, then maybe you can identify the stimulus in you that causes you to do it:
lonely?
feel insignificant?
feel shadowy (I struggle with this)?
is uncertainty about your future causing you to reach out for whatever you can grasp?
Obviously you are scared about what the future holds without him for you and your girls, and you should expect the uncertainty, but I can promise you ONE THING: It doesn't have to hold abuse.
That is just something I have learned in the two years since I stepped away from the hot stove. I was exactly like you. Except with more kids.
I had to get to the point where having NO ONE to talk to, NO CERTAINTY AT ALL, NO SECURITY was better than enduring one more minute of blame and accusation. And I finally did.
You are doing great.
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California
Posts: 383
WTBH, I'm fairly certain you can get a cheap "Nanny Cam." They can be disguised in almost anything. Set it up in the living room...or whichever room the AH sends time drinking in when with the girls...and let it run.
AS for not emotionally believing that you don't deserve this treatment...that comes from being raised by BPD Mom. I think I would really start working on this aspect with your therapist to truly heal. Also, start embracing yourself...that scared little girl you were as a child living in chaos. Start nurturing Little WTBH and forgive yourself. You didn't do anything wrong, but sometimes we take on responsibility for our parent's actions and treatment of us. And start looking at yourself as a SURVIVOR!!! Do you have any idea how strong you are...even as a small child to live through the chaos???? THAT is what you need to believe...not the lies and blaming coming from ill minds.
AS for not emotionally believing that you don't deserve this treatment...that comes from being raised by BPD Mom. I think I would really start working on this aspect with your therapist to truly heal. Also, start embracing yourself...that scared little girl you were as a child living in chaos. Start nurturing Little WTBH and forgive yourself. You didn't do anything wrong, but sometimes we take on responsibility for our parent's actions and treatment of us. And start looking at yourself as a SURVIVOR!!! Do you have any idea how strong you are...even as a small child to live through the chaos???? THAT is what you need to believe...not the lies and blaming coming from ill minds.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Posts: 441
WTBH - You know what I do when I am pi$$ed at myself for engaging? I try and not beat myself up for too long because it just makes it worse. I made a mistake (although the arse that the AH could be sucked me back in) and I try and learn from it and trust me you will learn and you will start engaging less and less. It is a process sweetie and it takes time to learn the new behavior of not engaging. You will get there. Now go tuen on some great music and dance around the kitchen with your 2 cutie pies!!
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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It's what they do best. Twist words around to make themselves the victim. And we put ourselves through it because we always think that this time they will hear our words and our words will make a difference.
Been there. Done that. Many times. Don't beat yourself up over it. Each time it happens it brings us closer to understanding that there's just nothing we can do. The ball lands in their court each and every time.
Been there. Done that. Many times. Don't beat yourself up over it. Each time it happens it brings us closer to understanding that there's just nothing we can do. The ball lands in their court each and every time.
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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I've been there, done that, too, like others in this thread have responded, Stella. Stayed in a conversation despite the wiser voice in my head telling me it wouldn't work.
It took me a while to stop trying to make sense to a person who clearly was not in the mood for logic and reason...to stop expecting sanity from a person more bent on the insanity of blaming and abusing...
Second Step: "We came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
It took me a while to stop trying to make sense to a person who clearly was not in the mood for logic and reason...to stop expecting sanity from a person more bent on the insanity of blaming and abusing...
Second Step: "We came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
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Shellcrusher- Wow, thanks for that info... It's both helpful and eye opening... Unfortunately 99% of the time the "proof" I have is seeing him or hearing him drunk. I rarely know how much he's drinking. Most of my journal is the assessment/opinion stuff and not hard facts... I'll have to keep what you said in mind and try and be as detailed as I can.
Stella- Thank you for your post-- what you said is a dead ringer for what I think goes on with me when I choose to stay and engage in conversations that are going nowhere.. You nailed it. I appreciate what you wrote and it was so accurate...
I've had a great weeked-- took the girls to a bridal shower with me on Sat, left my phone off all day, had a great time with the girls, went for drinks and dinner with my sister, brother and his girlfriend and our mom afterward. Took my time getting home, my mom stayed with the girls (once they were in bed) and I went out with my best friend for the evening and had a great girl talk... Turned my phone on this morning and saw a gazillion texts and voicemails from AH and deleted them all without listening. If he wants to reach me/see his kids he can call the house or come by. He only calls/texts to rile me up (and when I let it happen that's my issue)... The girls don't seem to be too phased with not having seen him this weekend and that's more than fine with me!
Stella- Thank you for your post-- what you said is a dead ringer for what I think goes on with me when I choose to stay and engage in conversations that are going nowhere.. You nailed it. I appreciate what you wrote and it was so accurate...
I've had a great weeked-- took the girls to a bridal shower with me on Sat, left my phone off all day, had a great time with the girls, went for drinks and dinner with my sister, brother and his girlfriend and our mom afterward. Took my time getting home, my mom stayed with the girls (once they were in bed) and I went out with my best friend for the evening and had a great girl talk... Turned my phone on this morning and saw a gazillion texts and voicemails from AH and deleted them all without listening. If he wants to reach me/see his kids he can call the house or come by. He only calls/texts to rile me up (and when I let it happen that's my issue)... The girls don't seem to be too phased with not having seen him this weekend and that's more than fine with me!
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