Grrr! Had to play snoopdog tonight
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
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Originally Posted by FindingPeace1 
What happens in your mind when you play out you telling her, "I don't trust you. You're not safe to watch our child. I've made arrangements with the daycare and it is NOT an option to do anything else."
This frames the conversation differently than if you start by telling her that you don't trust her and are therefore sending son to daycare over the summer.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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Originally Posted by Shellcrusher
So here's my question. She's almost off for the summer. The means daycare is almost over. I have to give 30 days advanced notice before terminating the contract. I really don't want him home with her over the summer. I want him to remain in school. I know this will raise hell with the AW. I also want her to know that I'm upset but for now, perhaps my silence is louder than anything I can say. Do I let the termination notice lapse. Do I bring the subject up and simply tell her that DS will remain in school and deal with her fallout?
For example... IMO- you could just put your son in daycare and let her find out later, but not explain, if you think internally she will make the connection that his being unsafe is directly related to the drinking. But if she doesn't make that connection, it leads to hurt feelings, assumptions, etc. You get the point. And the point here is not to hurt your AW, its to protect your son. If you do not think she will make the connection, you could simply say:
"Son will be staying in daycare for the summer." Period. Offer nothing more.
If she asks "why?" You say... "His safety is at risk when he is under your care. I will not accept "our" son's safety being at risk when he is under your care." Period. Offer nothing more. You do NOT need to explain anything else here. THIS is clear. SHE may not agree, but YOU know this is true for YOU, and you know that this is to protect your son. Every excuse she will come up with next will be a QUACK. You DO NOT engage. You simply wait until she's done flipping out, quacking, whatever, and repeat your boundary: "I will not accept our son's safety being at risk when he is under your care." Period. She probably won't like it, but you will feel SUPER that you took an action to protect your son, and you will feel powerful at your ability to NOT ENGAGE.
Shell, so sorry you're going through this. I'll say some prayers for you. Keep on with your recovery. You're doing great.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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You are a good dad.
I have been where you are before, having laid down a boundary in a time of great strength and resolve, and then having to bend on it for other reasons when the time comes...
I think no tolerance is difficult, and sometimes life gets in the way.
Progress, not perfection, but keep an eye on your coastline, and try not to let the tide take too much away...
I have been where you are before, having laid down a boundary in a time of great strength and resolve, and then having to bend on it for other reasons when the time comes...
I think no tolerance is difficult, and sometimes life gets in the way.
Progress, not perfection, but keep an eye on your coastline, and try not to let the tide take too much away...
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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I feel for you.
I finally put my boys in daycare. I should have done it sooner. I have no words of wisdom. I still have anxiety just reading this thread. Anxiety about how long I waited, anxiety about the thought of telling your wife.
I will say run it past your lawyer.
My xah went to rehab shortly after I put the kids in daycare and filed for divorce. I kept the kids in daycare when he came home. He received the divorce papers while he was in rehab and by the time he got home - he had a lawyer of his own.
His laywer told him to go get the kids every day and bring them home. Without legal custody and/or other documents in place - there was really nothing I could have done to prevent that. His case for custody would be infinitely better if they were home with him and him being out of rehab and 'sober' with no history of abuse - there wouldn't have been a lot I could have been done about it. He had been home with them since the twins were born. I did speak with my lawyer. Judges here like to keep the 'status quo' for kids unless it is proven to be detrimental to the kids. So his lawyer wanted the kids home with him, mine wanted them to stay in daycare. I of course no longer trusted him to provide good care so I wanted them in daycare.
Xah's sister, thankfully, talked him out of that. He didn't remain sober long so he quit barking up that tree. I think is primary purpose was to scare/manipulate me anyway - which, to be honest, worked for a few months.
I finally put my boys in daycare. I should have done it sooner. I have no words of wisdom. I still have anxiety just reading this thread. Anxiety about how long I waited, anxiety about the thought of telling your wife.
I will say run it past your lawyer.
My xah went to rehab shortly after I put the kids in daycare and filed for divorce. I kept the kids in daycare when he came home. He received the divorce papers while he was in rehab and by the time he got home - he had a lawyer of his own.
His laywer told him to go get the kids every day and bring them home. Without legal custody and/or other documents in place - there was really nothing I could have done to prevent that. His case for custody would be infinitely better if they were home with him and him being out of rehab and 'sober' with no history of abuse - there wouldn't have been a lot I could have been done about it. He had been home with them since the twins were born. I did speak with my lawyer. Judges here like to keep the 'status quo' for kids unless it is proven to be detrimental to the kids. So his lawyer wanted the kids home with him, mine wanted them to stay in daycare. I of course no longer trusted him to provide good care so I wanted them in daycare.
Xah's sister, thankfully, talked him out of that. He didn't remain sober long so he quit barking up that tree. I think is primary purpose was to scare/manipulate me anyway - which, to be honest, worked for a few months.
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I'm asking tough questions and you're asking me to think about tough things. That is good.
I guess in the end, I've had firm conversations with the AW about how it's going to be and she simply did not accept it. I'm stuck on this daycare thing because I don't know how I can enforce it. Some of you know how this is. Even with court orders to pay CS, some of you aren't getting paid and it's a PITA to enforce it. There is no order other than mine saying that he will be in daycare for the summer. I can put my foot down and she'll put her foot down and zero progress is made.
I think the only way I can get her remotely close to acceptance is as ConcernedNurse suggests, she needs to know why. We all know why.
I spoke with the Director of the school this morning. She doesn't know any data other than we can't agree on daycare for the summer. She suggests I submit my 30 day notice but she will hold his spot in case things change.
As of this morning, still no words spoken between us. I'm fine with that but I reckon I'll need to bring up the daycare. Then again, if I submit my 30 day notice, I still have time. She doesn't need to know. Her cycle is pretty predictable. She'll probably fall back to the booze either this weekend or next week. That will further solidify my choices. Mid may will come and I may find myself filing for divorce and keeping the boy in school will no longer be an issue.
So, it's another case of not having to take any action right now. Just do the next right thing. That would be sending my 30 day notice.
I guess in the end, I've had firm conversations with the AW about how it's going to be and she simply did not accept it. I'm stuck on this daycare thing because I don't know how I can enforce it. Some of you know how this is. Even with court orders to pay CS, some of you aren't getting paid and it's a PITA to enforce it. There is no order other than mine saying that he will be in daycare for the summer. I can put my foot down and she'll put her foot down and zero progress is made.
I think the only way I can get her remotely close to acceptance is as ConcernedNurse suggests, she needs to know why. We all know why.
I spoke with the Director of the school this morning. She doesn't know any data other than we can't agree on daycare for the summer. She suggests I submit my 30 day notice but she will hold his spot in case things change.
As of this morning, still no words spoken between us. I'm fine with that but I reckon I'll need to bring up the daycare. Then again, if I submit my 30 day notice, I still have time. She doesn't need to know. Her cycle is pretty predictable. She'll probably fall back to the booze either this weekend or next week. That will further solidify my choices. Mid may will come and I may find myself filing for divorce and keeping the boy in school will no longer be an issue.
So, it's another case of not having to take any action right now. Just do the next right thing. That would be sending my 30 day notice.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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hi shellcrusher-
why file the 30 day notice if what you want is for your child to stay in school? why not just let that deadline pass?
shellcrusher, it really appears to me that you might need to get the courts involved, even if it's only to give you custodial rights temporarily.
the stakes are too high. you can't leave a two year old with an active alcoholic all day long. it only takes one accident, and alcoholics make many mistakes. mine use to leave the oven on, drop cigerettes, fall asleep in a minute, drive drunk, leave faucets running...
why don't you speak to your lawyer and see what your options are here...
naive
why file the 30 day notice if what you want is for your child to stay in school? why not just let that deadline pass?
shellcrusher, it really appears to me that you might need to get the courts involved, even if it's only to give you custodial rights temporarily.
the stakes are too high. you can't leave a two year old with an active alcoholic all day long. it only takes one accident, and alcoholics make many mistakes. mine use to leave the oven on, drop cigerettes, fall asleep in a minute, drive drunk, leave faucets running...
why don't you speak to your lawyer and see what your options are here...
naive
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Shellcrusher- I was afraid to set limits for a long time - even those to keep my children safer (the same as you-- drinking while he was alone with them) because I was afraid of the threats AH made about how he'd involve the courts (and he did call the police when I took the girls and left last Spring and acted like I'd kidnapped them) and I'd wind up with no custody at all. I let my fear (and they were legit fears, like yours) stop me from doing what I had to.
What's happened in the past year as I have stood up to AH more and more in ways that keep the girls safer is that his threats have proven to be hollow promises. He's lots of talk and no action and while I don't know your wife one bit, I'd be really wary of not fighting to send him to day care just bc your wife threatens to involve her lawyer and fight you on it. I'd be willing to bet that's an idle threat. After all, how is she legitimately going to explain that she has been passed out drunk with a 2 yr old and with that info still have a leg to stand on for saying your 2 yr old ought not be in day care.
I'd make hard and fast plans to keep him in daycare and tell your W that's the plan and why (though I am guessing she knows full well why and her pride is what's wounded here-- not her belief that she will really be okay to be with your son 24:7 this summer).
Don't chance it is my advice. And don't let threats stop you from doing what you can to keep your son safe. Someone told me this early this Fall and I had a hard time believing it but it turns out that looking the threats squarely in the eye and saying (with my actions) 'threaten all you want, I am putting the girls first' has resulted in zero action from AH to keep any of his threats.
What's happened in the past year as I have stood up to AH more and more in ways that keep the girls safer is that his threats have proven to be hollow promises. He's lots of talk and no action and while I don't know your wife one bit, I'd be really wary of not fighting to send him to day care just bc your wife threatens to involve her lawyer and fight you on it. I'd be willing to bet that's an idle threat. After all, how is she legitimately going to explain that she has been passed out drunk with a 2 yr old and with that info still have a leg to stand on for saying your 2 yr old ought not be in day care.
I'd make hard and fast plans to keep him in daycare and tell your W that's the plan and why (though I am guessing she knows full well why and her pride is what's wounded here-- not her belief that she will really be okay to be with your son 24:7 this summer).
Don't chance it is my advice. And don't let threats stop you from doing what you can to keep your son safe. Someone told me this early this Fall and I had a hard time believing it but it turns out that looking the threats squarely in the eye and saying (with my actions) 'threaten all you want, I am putting the girls first' has resulted in zero action from AH to keep any of his threats.
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
... just bc your wife threatens to involve her lawyer and fight you on it.
Naive - You're right. I will see what my lawyer suggests.
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Originally Posted by Shellcrusher
... I know what I said to her but I don't like the timing. It's not working the way I want it to. I wanted to keep things tight, work my plan, get my act together and wait for the right moments.
Plans imply control. They give us comfort, and a sense of order in our lives. Sometimes the universe gives us a little nudge to remind us otherwise. There is no right moment, there is only right now.
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Originally Posted by Shellcrusher
I think the only way I can get her remotely close to acceptance is as ConcernedNurse suggests, she needs to know why.
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Originally Posted by Eddiebuckle
Shell, I'm sorry to hear about your night. This ^ struck me because I have recently had a bit of a shock to my "plan". Apparently I'm going to be a father. 45 years old, never married, and out of the clear blue...
Plans imply control. They give us comfort, and a sense of order in our lives. Sometimes the universe gives us a little nudge to remind us otherwise. There is no right moment, there is only right now.
Plans imply control. They give us comfort, and a sense of order in our lives. Sometimes the universe gives us a little nudge to remind us otherwise. There is no right moment, there is only right now.
Shell - hope your weekend goes ok. You are doing great! And you are a really good Dad. I am still owed CS - a lot of it - so I understand the legalities and the enforcement part. Keep talking with her about the dangers of being drunk around babies. Its a safety issue and somewhere it should click in her brain. Or at least plant a seed...hopefully?!
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We finally spoke to each other this morning. It was a doozy.
I told her the boy would remain in school. She certainly became pissed off. I learned from my lawyer that we can make a court order that the child stays in school during this turmoil. She said Wednesday night was her rock bottom. I'm not interested in giving her another chance. This morning I was met with more quacking and poor me BS. Oh and I found her cc statements. She's been lying to me about those as well. Their her cc bills and it will come out in the wash with everything else.
My money is wiring to my account and will become available. I'm going to set a meeting with the lawyer this coming week and I'm going to divorce my wife. I called my folks and unfortunately I was wound up and my Dad just lost his aunt last night. We clashed and things are bad there. So I'm kinda stuck right now and hurtin pretty bad.
The AW went to the gym came back, we had more discussions and she continued with the defensive accusations, quacking, etc. So the time has come. The light bulb is finally on and it's bright. This women is toxic in more ways than just her alcoholism. So now it's time to let the chips fall where they may. Her parents are not home yet so this is happening early. I knew the childcare discussion would push me completely over.
I'm also going to email my lawyer when I'm done here. He needs to know things are tense. I may just file a Protection order and get her the hell out of my house. At least for 14 days.
I've always been a very caring person. I've always been a planner and a dreamer. I've also always been a fighter and 9/10 times I win. So I'm asking everyone who can, to include me in their prayers. I haven't been close with the big man for a long time and while I know he'll listen to me, I know it won't hurt to get some additions words spoken for me and the boy.
I told her the boy would remain in school. She certainly became pissed off. I learned from my lawyer that we can make a court order that the child stays in school during this turmoil. She said Wednesday night was her rock bottom. I'm not interested in giving her another chance. This morning I was met with more quacking and poor me BS. Oh and I found her cc statements. She's been lying to me about those as well. Their her cc bills and it will come out in the wash with everything else.
My money is wiring to my account and will become available. I'm going to set a meeting with the lawyer this coming week and I'm going to divorce my wife. I called my folks and unfortunately I was wound up and my Dad just lost his aunt last night. We clashed and things are bad there. So I'm kinda stuck right now and hurtin pretty bad.
The AW went to the gym came back, we had more discussions and she continued with the defensive accusations, quacking, etc. So the time has come. The light bulb is finally on and it's bright. This women is toxic in more ways than just her alcoholism. So now it's time to let the chips fall where they may. Her parents are not home yet so this is happening early. I knew the childcare discussion would push me completely over.
I'm also going to email my lawyer when I'm done here. He needs to know things are tense. I may just file a Protection order and get her the hell out of my house. At least for 14 days.
I've always been a very caring person. I've always been a planner and a dreamer. I've also always been a fighter and 9/10 times I win. So I'm asking everyone who can, to include me in their prayers. I haven't been close with the big man for a long time and while I know he'll listen to me, I know it won't hurt to get some additions words spoken for me and the boy.
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Originally Posted by Shellcrusher
She, to my knowledge doesn't currently have a lawyer and she hasn't made that threat.
There is no order other than mine saying that he will be in daycare for the summer. I can put my foot down and she'll put her foot down and zero progress is made.
Sorry- I misread this part in your post and thought that she was saying she wasn't going to allow your S to go to school this summer... My mistake. I'm sorry.
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No worries. I kinda figured that's where you got it from. She did put her foot down today. Said she wasn't going to pay for it. Fine. I already do.
It was a quack filled day. She says she can't find anyone who will help her. At least one who doesn't accept insurance. Quack. She said Wednesday was her rock bottom. Quack. Said she was trying to get help. Quack. Said she needs anti-depressants. True but still a quack.
It was a quack filled day. She says she can't find anyone who will help her. At least one who doesn't accept insurance. Quack. She said Wednesday was her rock bottom. Quack. Said she was trying to get help. Quack. Said she needs anti-depressants. True but still a quack.
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Originally Posted by Shellcrusher
No worries. I kinda figured that's where you got it from. She did put her foot down today. Said she wasn't going to pay for it. Fine. I already do.
It was a quack filled day. She says she can't find anyone who will help her. At least one who doesn't accept insurance. Quack. She said Wednesday was her rock bottom. Quack. Said she was trying to get help. Quack. Said she needs anti-depressants. True but still a quack.
It was a quack filled day. She says she can't find anyone who will help her. At least one who doesn't accept insurance. Quack. She said Wednesday was her rock bottom. Quack. Said she was trying to get help. Quack. Said she needs anti-depressants. True but still a quack.
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hi shellcrusher-
glad you spoke to the lawyer.
deal with first things first. and that is getting the court order for the child to remain in daycare while the mother is seeking rehab.
you don't have to divorce her today. you don't even need to make that decision today.
an agreement with a drunk is not reliable. they will twist everything around.
today she's hit rock bottom. tomorrow she may be drinking again. monday she may be pissed and hire her own lawyer. tuesday she may be drunk and begging you.
naive
glad you spoke to the lawyer.
deal with first things first. and that is getting the court order for the child to remain in daycare while the mother is seeking rehab.
you don't have to divorce her today. you don't even need to make that decision today.
an agreement with a drunk is not reliable. they will twist everything around.
today she's hit rock bottom. tomorrow she may be drinking again. monday she may be pissed and hire her own lawyer. tuesday she may be drunk and begging you.
naive
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HUGS Shellcrusher... and prayers for good things sent your way also. And I agree with naive, you don't have to make every decision today. Just do the next right thing to get you through today. Keep up the good work, it takes SOOOOO much courage!
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