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Old 04-01-2011, 11:36 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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yes your are missing something @ALONE22.

STEP#9 says

Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:44 AM
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Thanks FourMaggie. I haven't even started step #1... maybe by the time I get to #9 I will be able to. BUT making amends does not mean to forgive and forget. There are somethings I don't think I could ever accept. Infidelity is one of them. My health would be at risk if that has gone on and I go back to having every right to know. Since we can't trust the A to be truthful then by whatever means we can find the truth I think we should. Seems like by doing so I am putting myself first.
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:48 AM
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@ALONE22, i mean this step is for the A (not for the wife)....you have to remember its HIS recovery....the A is excerising his right...
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:54 AM
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Okay I see... but I assume you mean that in time you will find out without looking? Hummm honestly it would be very hard for me to trust my AH that he was telling me everything, especially if he in fact did something he knows would break up the marriage. For me I don't ever think I could have that much faith in the process. Maybe I am just being stubborn but trust is huge and finding complete trust again just seems impossible.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:01 PM
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^^ i feel you are over analizing it with your feelings....its his recovery and he is practising the step....he has that right....its up to the A what he wants to do with the information....look, if it was not the wife looking at the journal, the wife, still would not have known....and that is his right...the question for him to think about is...DO I WANT TO REALLY HURT MY WIFE WITH THIS INFORMATION? (and that is when he is ready in STEP #8)
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:02 PM
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resentments are not a good thing....letting go and letting god has helped me alot
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:10 PM
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So my husband may never say anything if he is afraid it might end the marriage?
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:12 PM
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Wow this should become its own thread...the topic of marriage and recovery and how the two go together and how they don't. I really agree that transparency and rigorous honesty in a marriage are essential. And also essential to recovery...I mean...isn't that what AA says? Rigorous honesty?

Now, correct me if I am misunderstanding this section, but the step that alone22 might be missing is TIME and APPROPRIATENESS, but the expectation of honesty is still a valid one.

Was it appropriate to read her husband's AA writings? Probably not. Can I see why she did? Sure. Should she call him on it now? No. But does she deserve to have a husband who is honest and truthful with her? Yes. Can it be an alcoholic/addict? Not unless that person is truly working a solid recovery, and I mean completely off the substances. Pot is a drug. One is not in recovery if they are smoking pot.

Alone22, sometimes it takes years to get to the rigorous honesty part. You may choose to hang in there or not. Many of us here chose not to wait, because we had spent so much time waiting already and life is calling. Either way, you deserve respect but you have to give it in return. But I agree that a marriage without honesty, trust, and transparency is not a healthy nor happy marriage.

Oops - this was Terry, not Alone...sorry, reading above and not to the beginning! ; )
~T

Last edited by Tuffgirl; 04-01-2011 at 12:19 PM. Reason: misspoke!
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:15 PM
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1. no, you don't necessarily "find out in time". some things are hidden in the deepest parts of ourselves - when we have done things in conflict with our value system, WE know the violation. and WE have to live with that, and ourselves.
with some things, the pain of knowing the truth is far worse that being a little in the dark, even thought you may feel as though you don't completely know the whole person you're married to.
who ever really truly does?

2. he may not be speeding ahead with his recovery. but, terry, you are judging his process.
i know, i know, i know! it looks and feels a certain way to you. and you may be right on the money. however, it is not yours (ours) to discern.
this may very well be the very hardest piece of OUR recovery, which we can find through al-anon, the steps, and of course, soberrecovery

terry, you must be hurting over this. i'm sorry. bodies lie in the wake of alcoholism. the good news is, you can heal.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:21 PM
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no...u have to remember that what your going through is FEAR...(of just finding out)and after finding this out, are you ready to jump into divorce over this?.
..i believe, where in al anon, you would not jump to conclusions and understand more where he is coming from, and understand that in the past is just that... I believe needing to resolve defects of character/and attitude would help...and its good thing, not a bad thing...

see al anon does so much...its not about breaking up the marriage...its saving the marriage and doing things DIFFERENTLY...thinking different and talking different...

please go to al anon, i know you are hurt...anger and resentments are not good for the soul....love and compassion is...

ALCOHOLICS have a disease, treat it like cancer......
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:21 PM
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where did all you people come from?...LOL thanks guys!

u all beat me to it!
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:26 PM
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@coffee, this is an awesome quote....and that is what i am saying, i have no right to just yours or the A recovery and how its done, i leave all that up to my Higher Power...
"judging his process"
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:32 PM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by terry2768 View Post
So my husband may never say anything if he is afraid it might end the marriage?
According to Step 9, he should not say anything to you if the information would harm you. This harm sometimes includes transferring the emotional burden of our bad behavior to the person to whom we are making amends. Read pages 81 and 82 of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. The topic is addressed pretty clearly there.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:37 PM
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^^^ thank you....

i know its hard terry....being in recovery and watching a loved one doing his part in recovery...but its just that the As recovery...we have to trust our Higher Power that he is doing right by his recovery....

I wish there was a better way to help, except to say please...go to al anon
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:57 PM
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Doing the steps is an entirely private and personal matter that should only involve an alcoholic and his/her sponsor. I hope you give him the time and space he needs to work a program that is best for his recovery. And, go to Al-anon.
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:15 PM
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After reading all of this, it sounds like even if he comes clean about what he's done, you still aren't going to be able to let go of it. Doesn't sound like there is any trust in this relationship, and without trust and honesty (on BOTH of your parts), a healthy relationship is next to impossible.

Good Luck in whatever you decide to do.
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Old 04-01-2011, 02:06 PM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl View Post
Wow this should become its own thread...the topic of marriage and recovery and how the two go together and how they don't. I really agree that transparency and rigorous honesty in a marriage are essential. And also essential to recovery...I mean...isn't that what AA says? Rigorous honesty?
~T
It really would be

I would like to think someday my marriage can be put back together, but how and when to work on that is something I don't understand at this point. While I know it may never happen I sure would like to be prepared.

My AH was on step #8 last I heard... but that was a while ago ( last summer) and since then he has had issues drinking again. I have to say it makes me wonder if step #9 was just too much for him. I have really left him alone in his recovery attempts but like I said in one of my earlier posts I would like him to be able to share when he feels healthy enough to do so. For me and our marriage I can't be totally out of the loop on it and part of trusting him again is honesty in how he is handling his recovery.

Thanks to each of you. Hugs to you Terry... life is really hard with an A. I hope you find the peace you are searching for and I hope your AH finds he path to being in recovery for good.
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kittykitty View Post
After reading all of this, it sounds like even if he comes clean about what he's done, you still aren't going to be able to let go of it. Doesn't sound like there is any trust in this relationship, and without trust and honesty (on BOTH of your parts), a healthy relationship is next to impossible
whoa....i think it's way too soon to make this kind of a judgment/decision.

people's marriages have been in all kinds of shambles, and with rebuilding trust, with honest and gentle discourse, and likely with the assistance of a therapist, they can be put back on track.

terry,

if we were to glance at your husband's step work, it would appear that all is not as it should be. but, again, it's not yours to decide.

you trying to get inside him, and trying to figure out where he derailed, is what us co's do. it is, however, not helpful. making a decision for yourself and your family, based on his behavior, is appropriate.

keep posting, girl. it helps with clarity, and helps to keep you driving in the right direction. we care.
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:30 PM
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I can't speak to your A's personal recovery.

My thought is you can't unwind the clock. You read it. I don't think you should have personally. It was a mistake on your part but you did it and now you have information. You can't erase it and this event is now part of your marriage in a way it was not before.

It could very well be this was some drunken fool escapade he barely participated, never repeated, never seen the girl again blah blah. If that were the case he may never make an amends. I'm actually OK with that. Some times fessing up to something like that causes so much damage we hurt another to off load a guilty conscious, which is not fair.

But you know. He doesn't know you know. There is now dishonesty and secrets on both your parts. That changes the take on amends in my opinion. Of course he should discuss it with you if you *know* about it.

I'm going to take a lone ranger stance here and since you know it I think you should bring it up. He will never ever win with you no matter how stellar his recovery is if he chooses to not come clean with this (which I think would be OK in some circumstances if you did not know) because you are not going to move past it (and I wouldn't either) without working through it with him.

You have lost trust in him because of this. He will lose some trust in you because you breached his privacy so severely. It is something you'll both have to work through if you want to move on but you can't if you are each harboring secrets.

I'm sorry. It is a terrible spot to be in. Alcoholism results in so much damage to people's lives
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:31 PM
  # 60 (permalink)  
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for me, my attitude needed to change in order for my sanity...and as i did, his did too (the A)...i want to believe in my heart it was for the good....I dont want to put blame on him or i...whats done is done...the serenity prayer helps, to accept the things i cannot change and the courage to change the things i can and the wisdom to know the difference

what would you change now?
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