Dee74

For me to drink again would be a betrayal of the life I've worked hard for, and for the me I worked so hard to rediscover.

It would also be a massive slap in the face to everyone who's helped me here and those who I've helped in turn.

Whatever's coming I'll face it with a clear head, held high

Sobriety and I work together like a mofo.

D

ArtFriend

Trachs - I didn't understand a word of your post! (kidding)

Rob - Wow...big week here. Hospice and calling your daughter. Best of luck with that... how long has it been since you spoke to her?

This discussion about drinking in the face of a terminal illness is interesting. For me, I think I would stay sober because I would want every minute of my remaining life to be lucid. I would want to be clear headed (except for maybe medication) enough to see the sunrise/sunsets, have coherent conversations, to think and dream and just "be present".

Everyone have a great day/evening! Good luck Rob!

brynn

Good morning!

Robby....I'll be thinking of you as you prepare to talk to your daughter. Praying the conversation goes smoothly and she will be receptive.

courage2

Well, yeah. One way of looking at my pov would be, I don't trust myself to say that I'm not capable of that level of betrayal. I know what I'm capable of -- it's pretty grim. & I'm not a different person than I was when I was drinking.

I really really appreciate those of you who've reached a point of certainty and conviction about your selves. It's beautiful.

And trach, I understood exactly what you posted, and I feel the same way. I don't want to miss out on any part of the lives I'm privileged to share here.

RobbyRobot

Hey gang! Hot here today mid '80's. Likely some storming later in the day. S'okay.

ArtFriend and brynn, its been since Jan 2014 I spoke with my daughter. Last contact was by ***** Feb 2014 when she wished me a good life, claimed she loved me, and to never contact her again. I've tried twice since. First was an appeal and second was more business in tone. No joy either way.

Anyways, my daughter has, in my opinion, undiagnosed anxiety complications which because of her refusal to be examined and thereafter treated, has caused her and I to seriously misunderstand each other, and she has taken the position to not communicate. I am absolute in my requiring her to be professionally examined and treated. She is just as absolute to be satisfied with her own judgments. The thing here is, she has the full codependent backing of her mother and her mothers husband, her boyfriend, and her little group of codependent friends.

I'm not going to be talking much here about the history or essential details. The thing here for me, is I refuse to rubber-stamp her lifestyle choices. She accuses me of controlling her life choices. I asserted I have responsibilities as her father. She has, in her own childish ways, relieved me of said responsibilities by disowning me. Since she knows I won't sign on, she believes I can't control her choices if I have nothing to do with her life. Of course, she is wrong in her thinking, but that is a different matter which can't be sorted out if we have zero contact.

Her mother is more than pleased how this has turned out. She really resented how "her daughter" didn't stay with her back in 2007. In fact, my daughter refused to even speak to her mother. For my part, I helped both my daughter and her mother work things out. When I called on my ex to return the favor back in Jan/Feb of 2014, my ex said she didn't want to get involved. I said as her mother she had responsibilities. We argued. My ex cried on "her daughter's shoulder" about the trouble I was causing, and my daughter disowned me as punishment for arguing with her mother about the need for medical interventions saying its her life to do what she will with it. And so here we are.

And now the cancer thing has complicated things even more. I'm still not going to sign off on my responsibilities as her father, so even if we have a reconciliation, we'll also have the original "disagreements" unresolved. So I just don't know...

RobbyRobot

I'm thinking such a conviction and surety is a learned thing, and not so much an epiphany. At least it was for me. My realization for never getting drunk again was while I was still drinking. I didn't quit and then become certain about never drinking again. I made my choice while still drinking, same as always. I didn't fail at my last quit because I followed through with a proper detox and rehab. I reached out for help. I changed my lifestyle and my thinking too. I went from alcoholic mindfulness to thinking soberly in my responsibilities to self and to others. So, my willingness to change whatever I could so as to keep sober is what made all the difference. When I last quit, I didn't know all that I know now about sobriety. I did know though that drinking was killing me, and that was surely enough to know when one actually believes they are dying.

Ironically, I'm now again seeing the writing on the wall with respect to my dying, this time from complications associated with my cancer being terminal. It's almost the same thing again, except my choices are very much time-limited, yeah?

So for me, I was clueless about what living with sobriety actually meant. I wasn't at all clueless about what dying drunk meant, and like before, I'm still very much not wanting to die as a drunken drunk. And so I won't. I'll die sober no matter what are the circumstances of my death.

fini

Rob,
thinking of you as you approach the contact with your daughter.
and thinking, too, that you are well aware of the difference between attempts to control vs having responsibility towards.

the two times you used "absolute" made me smile, though...one for each of you

i'm glad to hear your access to pain meds is now arranged in your hands.

fini

courage2,
i don't personally relate to the use of "permission" with regards to drinking again.
i haven't "forbidden" it to/for myself; the concept is irrelevant.
more true for me is the word "option". though it's not entirely accurate, either.

RobbyRobot

Fini, thank you for the recognition.

Yes. My daughter and myself are resolute in our positions taken. I do believe her choices are misinformed and irresponsible and entirely entwined with codependent obligations to her immediate "family" as it were.

For the pain management, I just now received a call to meet with the specialist in the morning. I was yesterday offered my dilaudid as a slow time release. The trouble with this option is it doesn't speak to how my pains can suddenly spike or wane with respect to my activities for the day. Timed release reduces my control for such sudden differences, so I would rather take my meds as actually required than simply drug myself into a constant state of pain relief. I chose regular 2mg pills.

It's interesting how for terminal patients they really are less observant of the addictive side effects of whatever drugs are made available.

ArtFriend

Rob - do you think there is some room for softening your resoluteness? Maybe in light of current circumstances? It would be great if there were some form of reconciliation. To quote a wise sage - Dr. Phil - "no matter how flat you make a pancake, it still has two sides" (and the clouds parted and the angels wept). How profound... but it is true. Another truism is that "holding on to grudges is like drinking poison hoping the other person dies". Forgive me if I have over stepped.

Dee74

I was only speaking about myself in my post Courage - it was a rare moment of 'me-ness' - there was no criticism of you or anyone else, implied.

There seems to be a major disconnect with the way you see yourself and the way, for example, I see you...but I've been on the other side of that, and I accept that as a given.

I still claim the right to think of you as highly as I do, though

D

Dee74

I'm not a parent so I haven't any real experience to share, but I for one admire your resoluteness Rob.

Maybe one day your daughter will understand the love that's behind that position

D

fini

It's interesting how for terminal patients they really are less observant of the addictive side effects of whatever drugs are made available.
yes, and in general that's a positive. i know from decades ago when "they" were constantly erring on the minimal side, citing fear of addiction even in the last few weeks of life.

hm. yes, her choices may well be irresponsible and misinformed.
she might come to see that, later. or not.

i do hope she can appreciate your effort at contact and connection.

courage2

I know you were only speaking about yourself, I like your self, & I like your moments of me-ness.

And thanks for saying nice things.

I hope my ramblings didn't confuse anyone -- I certainly don't want to die as a drunk -- that's why I live the way I do now. It's just that I can easily *imagine* wanting to die that way. I'm not incapable of the same fall, & I try not judge. If for no other reason than so much judging would exhaust my small concern for my fellow man.

Robby, your relationship with your daughter is tough. I won't presume to advise you on it. I hope that even if both your positions on her choices remain unresolved, you get a chance to express some of the other feelings that have given the two of you a bond. I can tell you feel the bond strongly now.

Gilmer

In the grand scheme of things, there is so much more to life than issues.

silentrun

Hi all.
I hope the phone call to your daughter goes well. I hear you saying that you each have a valid viewpoint(based on perspective) and the two of you just see the situation differently. If that it what you are saying, and I'm not projecting again, I agree. Probably she takes to heart what you have said to her and gets herself some help down the road. Like you mentioned, even if you two are at an impasse over this, you're still her dad. I hope she lets you help her through this.

I have to get in on this "would I drink again if facing a terminal illness" thing. I think HELL NO. I must have done some aversion therapy on myself. Every time an urge would come at me I would show it my fear and pain. I can't remember what it feels like to drink anymore. I just get a feeling in the pit of my stomach if I even try. My mind will not connect to that euphoria . I know I had fun at times but I couldn't describe it. Actually the word drunk makes me kind of nauseous. My problem now is I sometimes forget and think something sounds good. I would however have no problem doping the pain away and then some.

Have a good night all.

ArtFriend

I thought life WAS issues? no?

Gilmer

The way I see it, many pressing issues are just pet ideas that people grab onto and hide behind. Love is what really matters.

Gilmer

.

courage2

You're self-effacing but you always shine, Gilmer. Like a pearl hiding away within an oyster shell.