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For those tortured by PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms) and who fear they might go mad Part 4



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For those tortured by PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms) and who fear they might go mad Part 4

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Old 12-03-2021, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LazaB View Post
I was a little bit socialy anxious my whole life but nothing extreme , i was actually a class clown in elementary and high school , always making everyone laugh even though i hated school , so i never had any serious anxiety in my life , i actually had 7 mixed martial arts fights and many years of martial arts training.
When i remember walking out to have an MMA fight in front of hundreds of people it actually seems like a different person had that experience , because now even leaving my house is anxiety inducing , everything above that is just panic attacks.
BTW i am only 18 days sober so i know this is just a beginning but still....
18 days is great, don't sell yourself short on that accomplishment! You are still likely within, or towards the end of the Acute withdrawal phase ( the "A" ) in PAWS, which usually doesn't manifest until several months into quitting, hence the "P" for POST acute.. Alcohol is a very strong central nervous system depressant - which pretty much does exactly the opposite of what anxiety feels like, so after we quit our brain chemicals pretty much go into overdrive on the anxiety side of things - especially if you drank a lot or for a long time.

Having said that, it never hurts to get a second opinion on the anxiety if it doesn't improve. And staying away from things like caffeine, sugar and other stimulus can really help in the meantime. Even avoiding things that trigger a response like social media or scary/action movies can help as they can trigger that response too.
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Old 12-05-2021, 06:21 AM
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Today was my grandfather's funeral , my anxiety is still through the roof of course so i knew that i won't be able to go over there completely clean , every other funeral that i had in the last decade i got black out drunk every time. But this time i told myself that drinking is not even an option so i have to find another way , so i took a benzo to get through it. I was approached by family members exactly 5 times offering me liquor and wine and i said no every time , it wasn't easy but i made it. My brother couldn't believe it the first time i said no to the drink because that is probably the first time in his life that he saw be turn down the drink , so he actually approached me and shoock my hand with a smile on his face , like he couldn't believe it , even i couldn't believe it. This is literally the most successful day in my life since the withdrawals started , which was in December 2011.
I know many people like to **** on benzos but i think that in early recovery they can literally be the line between me and alcohol , i am very careful to not over do them , i don;t take them every day ( not even close ) , only when i need them and so far so great.
This is the first time that i am actually pretty confident that i can make this work , very very hapy day ( even though it was my grandfather funeral unfortunately ).
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Old 12-05-2021, 07:38 AM
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Well played lazaB. Yes I have Valium tablets which I take in emergencies. Usually when I’m with a group of people and feel lousy. Keep them under control though as you don’t want to have PAWS from them too. . Sorry for your loss.
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Old 12-05-2021, 08:52 AM
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Laza congrats on getting through the funeral without drinking. I have yet to have gone to a large gathering since I quit drinking, partly because of the alcohol and also because of COVID.

I have dilemma. Should I go back the doctor or sit tight. I am going crazy with indecision. I have had a sore throat and swollen glands for 6 months. I have been to ENTS, dentists, GPs, and my Gastroenterologist. Lots of tests have been done including an endoscopy, scope of my throat, ultrasound of my neck, blood work, strep tests, cover tests.... It has been determined that I have mild esophagitis or GERD. I have swollen submandibular glands. I have been on a low acid diet for 6 weeks or so. I Was taking a PPI but quit because it is not good to do long term. I sleep with my head raised. Anyway, I do have health anxiety. My therapist doesn't want me to go to the doctor and neither does my husband. However, I cannot stop thinking that the doctors have missed something. Swollen glands are an atypical presentation for GERD. I just want the swollen glands and sore throat to go away. I also still have the boaty rocking sensation 24/7. Those that know me know that I have had an MRI of my brain and it was clear for tumors and MS. So is this all PAWS or something else? I just want answers. I feel like I am going insane.
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Old 12-06-2021, 10:34 AM
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Laza - if the choice is being so uncomfortable that you'll drink, that's when you gotta break the emergency glass -- good job, you got through what you needed to get through, that's what the benzo is for. People without addictions also often have to take one to get through funerals!

CB - am I remembering right that you're at about 11 months just verging on a year in a few weeks? I would say if all the doctors are saying you aren't showing any signs of major disease for your throat and glands, and also your brain - it really is probably PAWS. I did what I always do when I feel like I've found a symptom of PAWS that nobody else has, and I googled "Benzo Buddies lymph nodes" and sure enough I found a bunch of posts - http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/in...topic=169213.0
PAWS is awful. I read some success stories of things people went through like bleeding skin(!) and other truly frightening physical symptoms. They all healed. You will too! I had an absolutely horrendous 11th month. My actual day of one year sober was a disaster and I felt terrible. A lot of the websites with articles about PAWS all say "one year" - and so when I wasn't better at one year I was like "it's got to be permanent" - it's not. I'm starting to feel so much better. It's really more like a year and a half until you start to feel like you've got your feet on the ground. The studies that people have done on addiction tend to only last a year, so that's when the data stops. Especially for alcohol. I'm pasting a great part of Living Sober here below - it is a really good one to read when you're at this point:


16 Being good to yourself
When a loved one or a dear friend of ours is recuperating from a serious illness, we generally try to give what good nurses call T.L.C. (Tender Loving Care). We pamper a sick child, providing favorite foods and some fun to help in recovery. Convalescence from the illness of active alcoholism takes some time, and anyone going through it deserves consideration and a measure of T.L.C.

In times past, people often believed that those recovering from certain ailments just deserved to suffer, since it was thought they had deliberately, selfishly inflicted the sickness on themselves. Because of the guilt and stigma still laid on alcoholism by people who are ignorant of the nature of the disease (including ourselves before we learned better), many of us were not very kind to ourselves in the throes of a hangover. We just suffered and thought of ourselves as “paying the piper” in necessary penance for our misdeeds. Now that we know alcoholism is not immoral behavior, we have found it essential to readjust our attitudes. We have learned that one of the persons least likely to treat the alcoholic like a sick person is, somewhat surprisingly, the alcoholic herself (or himself). Once again, our old thinking habits are cropping up. It’s often said that problem drinkers are perfectionists, impatient about any shortcomings, especially our own. Setting impossible goals for ourselves, we nevertheless struggle fiercely to reach these unattainable ideals. Then, since no human being could possibly maintain the extremely high standards we often demand, we find ourselves falling short, as all people must whose aims are unrealistic. And discouragement and depression set in. We angrily punish ourselves for being less than super-perfect. That is precisely where we can start being good—at least fair—to ourselves. We would not demand of a child or of any handicapped person more than is reasonable. It seems to us we have no right to expect such miracles of ourselves as recovering alcoholics, either. Impatient to get completely well by Tuesday, we find ourselves still convalescing on Wednesday, and start blaming ourselves. That’s a good time to back off, mentally, and look at ourselves in as detached, objective a way as we can.

What would we do if a sick loved one or friend got discouraged about slow recuperation progress, and began to refuse medicine? It helps to remember that heavy drinking is highly damaging to the body, producing conditions which can take months or years to get over. No one becomes an alcoholic in just a few weeks (well, almost no one). We cannot expect to recover in a magic instant, either. When feelings of discouragement come, we then need to encourage ourselves. More than one of us have found it good medicine to give ourselves a pat on the back, to salute the progress already made—without being smug or dangerously egotistical about it, of course. Take stock. Have we refrained from taking a drink this 24 hours? That deserves honest self-commendation. Have we made ourselves eat properly today? Have we tried to fulfill our obligations today? Have we, in short, done about the best we could, and all we could, today? If so, that’s all it is fair to expect.

Maybe we can’t answer yes to all those questions. Maybe we have fallen short somehow, backslid a bit in our thinking or actions, despite knowing better. So what? We are not perfect creatures. We should settle for small progress, rather than bemoan any lack of perfection. What can we do right now to cheer ourselves up? We can do something other than take a drink. Every section of this booklet makes suggestions of that sort. But there is more, perhaps. Have we been enjoying life lately? Or have we been so concerned about getting better, kept our nose so earnestly near the grindstone of self-improvement, that we have failed to enjoy a sunset? A new moon? A good meal? A needed holiday from care? A good joke? Some affection? Since the body seeks to normalize itself, maybe yours will welcome opportunities for needed rest. Enjoy deliciously drowsy naps, or good, long nights of peaceful slumber. Or perhaps you have leftover energy you can use in pure fun and enjoyment. As much as other aspects of life, these seem necessary for fulfilling our entire human potential.

Now is the time, the only time there is. And if we are not kind to ourselves right now, we certainly cannot rightfully expect respect or consideration from others. We have found we can enjoy, sober, every good thing we enjoyed while drinking—and many, many more. It takes a little practice, but the rewards more than make up for the effort. To do so is not selfish, but self-protective. Unless we cherish our own recovery, we cannot survive to become unselfish, ethical, and socially responsible people.
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Old 12-06-2021, 12:22 PM
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Betty thanks for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate your help. Yes I will be one year on the 17th! My gastroenterologist says the throat and glands could be my acid reflux. They want me to take Pepcid every day and see if it gets better.

I hope you are feeling well 😊
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Old 12-06-2021, 08:43 PM
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One year on the 17th!! That is amazing, CB! You are super strong and you’re going to have an amazing sober life once you get past this awful phase of healing :-)
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Old 12-11-2021, 11:44 AM
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How is everyone doing this weekend? I’m having another wave - Yeahy. Todays specials include GI symptoms, DP, a little double vision just for fun. I feel like the minute you feel like you’ve got a foothold a wave comes in to kick it out from under you! It is practically impossible to live normally with these ongoing symptoms - and literally nobody understands at this point but you guys on this thread. Hope everyone is hanging in there today!
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Old 12-11-2021, 12:49 PM
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Hi Betty. I am having a rough time. I guess it is what they call Benzo flu. It comes and goes. I wake up just feeling off. Like I am getting sick. Something in my veins feels strange. Borderline chills and achy. Sore throat and swollen glands are still chronic. I have had this before and had strep, Covid tests, blood tests......Doctors have no explanation except maybe acid reflux. Also had terrible insomnia last night that caused an emotional meltdown. I also have nystagmus and still the constant rocking boaty sensation. I feel like I am in an episode of the Twilight Zone. My mother is in the hospital and is unwell but still no diagnosis. My husband and I are taking the train down to see her for a week. It is not good timing for me because of work but my boss is understanding. Sorry I am on a rant. This crap is really testing me. Is it PAWS or something else? Am I dying? I hope and pray that I will get a window some day. The waves are persistent. I just keep doubting that it is PAWS and I am sick and the doctors can't figure it out. UGH!!!!
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Old 12-12-2021, 07:38 PM
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That "feeling like I'm in an episode of the Twilight Zone" - I so feel that. It's so creepy. I read in a success story someone described it as like being in an old black and white western movie where tumbleweeds roll down the street.
You are not dying. It certainly FEELS LIKE dying though doesn't it? It's like a sick grey area between death and life. I have read a lot of success stories and many people had no windows like you, and then one day they just started to feel better - perhaps that is what will happen with you, CB. Here's to hoping! Please feel free to rant - this is our only safe space for it!
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Old 12-14-2021, 09:48 AM
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Ask yourself these questions CBS.
1) did you feel like this before you started drinking to excess?
2) did you first experience these symptoms when you stopped drinking. Perhaps an acute withdrawal after a binge or heightened anxiety, inability to cope with stress?
3) do you have intermittent periods of normality (windows) that can last days or weeks followed by heavy symptoms also lasting days, weeks (Waves)

if you relate to any of this then you can safely admit yourself into the PAWS club my friend.

One of the biggest symptoms is doubt it will ever get better. Waves can be relentless and unforgiving but they also have no foundation. They are self limiting they cannot keep going and going. Only the windows will win this fight so long you stay the sober path. Give it time and I will be proven right
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Old 12-15-2021, 09:55 AM
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Hey gang back from a short break. Wanted to take some time away from "sober work" and just live life on life terms for a while. Had some highs and lows though the lows aren't quite as nasty as they were other than Thanksgiving week I had some heavy fatigue after turkey day that was so bad my vision started having some distortion and had this annoying like pulsating feeling in my eyes. But after a few days of rest it seem to right itself. But also in that time I had just about 2 weeks of feeling the most amazing I've had in forever. I mean most days I'm good and even on my rougher days I may not feel great but I'm still functional at least but in that 2 weeks I felt awesome I mean like zero symptoms of PAWS, didn't even think of it hardly and when I did I was like oh yeah, I haven't felt any of those things in a while.

So here I am a few days shy of my 20th month sober and things are still slowly but surely getting better. Driving is still a lot like Russian roulette where somedays I drive with zero anxiety and other times It's a chore to get through. Funny how sometimes before a drive I'll get that nervous feeling in my gut before I go but end up feeling fine and other times I think this will be great lets go and 5mins later I'm white knuckling my way through it. Gym time is also a pain to figure out. I don't know how may times I've tinkered with my program but any type of heavy weight lifting and heavy cardio is still off the table and even really light squats and deadlifts are a no go. So I'm still doing my weenie man Pee Wee Herman workouts and so far so good. Hardest thing is telling when I'm really tired or just being lazy. So I do a test and if I still feel tired after warming up then I just call it a day and if I start to perk up then I go on with it which 8/10 times is the case. I learned my lesson the hard way if you try to force anything that's just asking for trouble that can last a few days at times.

So anyway did some catching up on my reading and happy to see all the usual suspects are still in here grinding away and noticed a few newer posters as well. So hello and welcome and keep up the work. It's hard and at times seems bleak but when you get those windows and your free trial size sample of what life will be like when the clouds finally lift you'll remember what it is your fighting for!
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Old 12-15-2021, 12:31 PM
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Love that, SN - windows are free trial samples of what life will be like" -- YES! Good to hear you're having weeks at a time feeling like yourself at 20 months. I read way way back in this thread someone say that a doctor told them it takes 12 to 24 months for the brain to heal (and of course sometimes longer for some). You're right on track :-)
I've started talking to a person IRL who just recently stopped drinking, and she is like "wtf why am I so anxious all the time? It never goes away?" I don't think she is as far gone as I was, but it's been tough for her. It's been a good reminder for me, too, about how confusing it was having so much anxiety in the beginning and not knowing what the heck was going on. I've heard people in sobriety say that they don't tell people about post acute withdrawal because they don't want to scare anyone who might want to get sober - I don't see that as being constructive. So grateful for all my fellow PAWS friends :-)
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Old 12-21-2021, 12:10 PM
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Hey gang - hope you’re all hanging in for the holidays! Stay strong and even if PAWS is hard, just stay away from a drink. Come post here if you need support!
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Old 12-21-2021, 12:18 PM
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Hi folks….

Paws is long gone but I still have nights where a teeny tiny bit of anxiety, depression, and maybe even some insomnia but for the most part…it’s tolerable and may last only a few minutes.

There is some anhedonia for this holiday season since being my first sober holiday in years. Can’t seem to get into this holiday spirit but staying the course and looking forward to better and brighter holiday next year.

Hang in there everyone.
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Old 12-22-2021, 06:32 AM
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The first Xmas is always a bit of a challenge. Once you get through it others become a lot easier.

merry Xmas all
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:34 AM
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Not my first Christmas sober but this year I just don't feel as enthusiastic for it. Caught myself remembering a few Christmas from yesteryear that were pretty lit to say the least and got some of those warm and fuzzy thoughts remembering them. As usual I brushed them off to the side when I grounded myself back in reality and recall how the last 20 months have gone trying to get away from that part of my life.

It's a tough time of the year for a lot of people struggling to stay away from the bottle but hang in there. There's always going to be more Christmases down the road and a new life and appreciation for them as well!
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Old 12-26-2021, 09:49 AM
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Hey I made it! I hope you all did too. Lots of depression for me this season - some PAWS but a lot of it is my own normal seasonal depression — I’ve never been a big fan of the holidays and now looking at it with sober eyes I can see it is because of a lot of intergenerational family trauma passed down. Plus side now that I’m sober I can recognize it and work on it..?? Hope you all are healthy and sober and hanging in there :-)
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Old 12-26-2021, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BettyP;[url=tel:7743185
7743185[/url]]Hey I made it! I hope you all did too. Lots of depression for me this season - some PAWS but a lot of it is my own normal seasonal depression — I’ve never been a big fan of the holidays and now looking at it with sober eyes I can see it is because of a lot of intergenerational family trauma passed down. Plus side now that I’m sober I can recognize it and work on it..?? Hope you all are healthy and sober and hanging in there :-)
Hi Betty.

Good to hear you made it. Thanks for the encouragement also. Take care.

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Old 12-30-2021, 07:22 AM
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Hi All,

Hope everyone had a great Christmas. Hope everyone is feeling well and and not pawsy. I personally am feeling some paws symptoms as I just got though covid and I feel it set me back. Had fever for a few days and now I'm weak and fatigued and it feels like I'm being set back to my original paws days. I guess the brain chemistry goes awry from the fever and the virus. Wishing you all the best and hope you are all doing great.
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