Oh Well Part 3
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Originally Posted by Obladi 
Wait.
So you're saying literally all of your struggles substance and otherwise are your Beast's?
Also, I missed the reference to J Petersonian... I fear you mean Jordan Peterson?
So you're saying literally all of your struggles substance and otherwise are your Beast's?
Also, I missed the reference to J Petersonian... I fear you mean Jordan Peterson?
I don't struggle with being quat , my Beast does.
Otherwise struggles aren't related to alcohol, 'cept my AV declares it so, but that's bs and noise.
And have you read JP's Maps of Meaning or watched any of his lectures ?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
.
If a Person wants any remote chance of stepping up on the Dais at an Olympics, they develop Muscle Memory relentlessly. You're in, say, the Pool before the Sun rises. Aches or not. Cold-like symptoms or not. 'Feeling' like it or not. This is how I approached ~6 Years of what I call 'Permanent, Effortless Sobriety'. After swilling a 1.75 L Handle of Vodka every 2 Days. Continuously.
My standard schtick is: I don't kick my beloved Goldie Dog. I don't cheat on my Wife of 42 Years. I don't steal Cash from a Pal's Wallet left on the Table when he hits the Bathroom. It is entirely possible to compartmentalize Never Drinking Again into that Lockbox of 'things I just don't do'. Hence, my Sig Line below. 2 exceptions: Mental Illness, or Dual Diagnosis. Alks quit hundreds of Years ago, as I did: Cold Turkey. Including my former Neighbor Joe Cocker with whom we had Dinner. See attached below a Study on Alcoholism Treatments:
'Overall, that [Project MATCH] study detected no significant differences among the three treatments in patient outcome, although certain treatment methodologies may be most appropriate for patients with certain characteristics.'
Me, I can't imagine waking up and rehashing my 'choice' of Sobriety daily ODAAT. Exhausting. So, I don't.
I 'get' what GT imaged up-thread. Lock up the AV/Beast in a personal caged Zoo. Or, in my Gun Safe. Or, write it out, and put that crumpled Paper in the bottom of a Fence Post Hole, and cover it forever in Concrete. What EVER ! Forever dismissing the AV makes the complex, simple. The ongoing Muscle Memory of living Sober long-term keeps it so. Long Time Sober Folks I meet at Dog Parks, or at RV Parks, represent what I call 'The SoberSphere'. They're out doing it; virtually all with no ongoing Program involvement. I balance that immense Universe of experience with SR insights.
Your Employer will survive if you don't wake up tomorrow. Hold that thought, and treat any Job with appropriate detachment while giving it your 110%. Been there. Done that.
Sober Serenity First.
~ NIHAA Alcoholism Treatment Study ~
If a Person wants any remote chance of stepping up on the Dais at an Olympics, they develop Muscle Memory relentlessly. You're in, say, the Pool before the Sun rises. Aches or not. Cold-like symptoms or not. 'Feeling' like it or not. This is how I approached ~6 Years of what I call 'Permanent, Effortless Sobriety'. After swilling a 1.75 L Handle of Vodka every 2 Days. Continuously.
My standard schtick is: I don't kick my beloved Goldie Dog. I don't cheat on my Wife of 42 Years. I don't steal Cash from a Pal's Wallet left on the Table when he hits the Bathroom. It is entirely possible to compartmentalize Never Drinking Again into that Lockbox of 'things I just don't do'. Hence, my Sig Line below. 2 exceptions: Mental Illness, or Dual Diagnosis. Alks quit hundreds of Years ago, as I did: Cold Turkey. Including my former Neighbor Joe Cocker with whom we had Dinner. See attached below a Study on Alcoholism Treatments:
'Overall, that [Project MATCH] study detected no significant differences among the three treatments in patient outcome, although certain treatment methodologies may be most appropriate for patients with certain characteristics.'
Me, I can't imagine waking up and rehashing my 'choice' of Sobriety daily ODAAT. Exhausting. So, I don't.
I 'get' what GT imaged up-thread. Lock up the AV/Beast in a personal caged Zoo. Or, in my Gun Safe. Or, write it out, and put that crumpled Paper in the bottom of a Fence Post Hole, and cover it forever in Concrete. What EVER ! Forever dismissing the AV makes the complex, simple. The ongoing Muscle Memory of living Sober long-term keeps it so. Long Time Sober Folks I meet at Dog Parks, or at RV Parks, represent what I call 'The SoberSphere'. They're out doing it; virtually all with no ongoing Program involvement. I balance that immense Universe of experience with SR insights.
Your Employer will survive if you don't wake up tomorrow. Hold that thought, and treat any Job with appropriate detachment while giving it your 110%. Been there. Done that.
Sober Serenity First.
~ NIHAA Alcoholism Treatment Study ~
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by MesaMan
.
If a Person wants any remote chance of stepping up on the Dais at an Olympics, they develop Muscle Memory relentlessly. You're in, say, the Pool before the Sun rises. Aches or not. Cold-like symptoms or not. 'Feeling' like it or not. This is how I approached ~6 Years of what I call 'Permanent, Effortless Sobriety'. After swilling a 1.75 L Handle of Vodka every 2 Days. Continuously.
My standard schtick is: I don't kick my beloved Goldie Dog. I don't cheat on my Wife of 42 Years. I don't steal Cash from a Pal's Wallet left on the Table when he hits the Bathroom. It is entirely possible to compartmentalize Never Drinking Again into that Lockbox of 'things I just don't do'. Hence, my Sig Line below. 2 exceptions: Mental Illness, or Dual Diagnosis. Alks quit hundreds of Years ago, as I did: Cold Turkey. Including my former Neighbor Joe Cocker with whom we had Dinner. See attached below a Study on Alcoholism Treatments:
'Overall, that [Project MATCH] study detected no significant differences among the three treatments in patient outcome, although certain treatment methodologies may be most appropriate for patients with certain characteristics.'
Me, I can't imagine waking up and rehashing my 'choice' of Sobriety daily ODAAT. Exhausting. So, I don't.
I 'get' what GT imaged up-thread. Lock up the AV/Beast in a personal caged Zoo. Or, in my Gun Safe. Or, write it out, and put that crumpled Paper in the bottom of a Fence Post Hole, and cover it forever in Concrete. What EVER ! Forever dismissing the AV makes the complex, simple. The ongoing Muscle Memory of living Sober long-term keeps it so. Long Time Sober Folks I meet at Dog Parks, or at RV Parks, represent what I call 'The SoberSphere'. They're out doing it; virtually all with no ongoing Program involvement. I balance that immense Universe of experience with SR insights.
Your Employer will survive if you don't wake up tomorrow. Hold that thought, and treat any Job with appropriate detachment while giving it your 110%. Been there. Done that.
Sober Serenity First.
~ NIHAA Alcoholism Treatment Study ~
If a Person wants any remote chance of stepping up on the Dais at an Olympics, they develop Muscle Memory relentlessly. You're in, say, the Pool before the Sun rises. Aches or not. Cold-like symptoms or not. 'Feeling' like it or not. This is how I approached ~6 Years of what I call 'Permanent, Effortless Sobriety'. After swilling a 1.75 L Handle of Vodka every 2 Days. Continuously.
My standard schtick is: I don't kick my beloved Goldie Dog. I don't cheat on my Wife of 42 Years. I don't steal Cash from a Pal's Wallet left on the Table when he hits the Bathroom. It is entirely possible to compartmentalize Never Drinking Again into that Lockbox of 'things I just don't do'. Hence, my Sig Line below. 2 exceptions: Mental Illness, or Dual Diagnosis. Alks quit hundreds of Years ago, as I did: Cold Turkey. Including my former Neighbor Joe Cocker with whom we had Dinner. See attached below a Study on Alcoholism Treatments:
'Overall, that [Project MATCH] study detected no significant differences among the three treatments in patient outcome, although certain treatment methodologies may be most appropriate for patients with certain characteristics.'
Me, I can't imagine waking up and rehashing my 'choice' of Sobriety daily ODAAT. Exhausting. So, I don't.
I 'get' what GT imaged up-thread. Lock up the AV/Beast in a personal caged Zoo. Or, in my Gun Safe. Or, write it out, and put that crumpled Paper in the bottom of a Fence Post Hole, and cover it forever in Concrete. What EVER ! Forever dismissing the AV makes the complex, simple. The ongoing Muscle Memory of living Sober long-term keeps it so. Long Time Sober Folks I meet at Dog Parks, or at RV Parks, represent what I call 'The SoberSphere'. They're out doing it; virtually all with no ongoing Program involvement. I balance that immense Universe of experience with SR insights.
Your Employer will survive if you don't wake up tomorrow. Hold that thought, and treat any Job with appropriate detachment while giving it your 110%. Been there. Done that.
Sober Serenity First.
~ NIHAA Alcoholism Treatment Study ~
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by MesaMan
.
If a Person wants any remote chance of stepping up on the Dais at an Olympics, they develop Muscle Memory relentlessly. You're in, say, the Pool before the Sun rises. Aches or not. Cold-like symptoms or not. 'Feeling' like it or not. This is how I approached ~6 Years of what I call 'Permanent, Effortless Sobriety'. After swilling a 1.75 L Handle of Vodka every 2 Days. Continuously.
My standard schtick is: I don't kick my beloved Goldie Dog. I don't cheat on my Wife of 42 Years. I don't steal Cash from a Pal's Wallet left on the Table when he hits the Bathroom. It is entirely possible to compartmentalize Never Drinking Again into that Lockbox of 'things I just don't do'. Hence, my Sig Line below. 2 exceptions: Mental Illness, or Dual Diagnosis. Alks quit hundreds of Years ago, as I did: Cold Turkey. Including my former Neighbor Joe Cocker with whom we had Dinner. See attached below a Study on Alcoholism Treatments:
'Overall, that [Project MATCH] study detected no significant differences among the three treatments in patient outcome, although certain treatment methodologies may be most appropriate for patients with certain characteristics.'
Me, I can't imagine waking up and rehashing my 'choice' of Sobriety daily ODAAT. Exhausting. So, I don't.
I 'get' what GT imaged up-thread. Lock up the AV/Beast in a personal caged Zoo. Or, in my Gun Safe. Or, write it out, and put that crumpled Paper in the bottom of a Fence Post Hole, and cover it forever in Concrete. What EVER ! Forever dismissing the AV makes the complex, simple. The ongoing Muscle Memory of living Sober long-term keeps it so. Long Time Sober Folks I meet at Dog Parks, or at RV Parks, represent what I call 'The SoberSphere'. They're out doing it; virtually all with no ongoing Program involvement. I balance that immense Universe of experience with SR insights.
Your Employer will survive if you don't wake up tomorrow. Hold that thought, and treat any Job with appropriate detachment while giving it your 110%. Been there. Done that.
Sober Serenity First.
~ NIHAA Alcoholism Treatment Study ~
If a Person wants any remote chance of stepping up on the Dais at an Olympics, they develop Muscle Memory relentlessly. You're in, say, the Pool before the Sun rises. Aches or not. Cold-like symptoms or not. 'Feeling' like it or not. This is how I approached ~6 Years of what I call 'Permanent, Effortless Sobriety'. After swilling a 1.75 L Handle of Vodka every 2 Days. Continuously.
My standard schtick is: I don't kick my beloved Goldie Dog. I don't cheat on my Wife of 42 Years. I don't steal Cash from a Pal's Wallet left on the Table when he hits the Bathroom. It is entirely possible to compartmentalize Never Drinking Again into that Lockbox of 'things I just don't do'. Hence, my Sig Line below. 2 exceptions: Mental Illness, or Dual Diagnosis. Alks quit hundreds of Years ago, as I did: Cold Turkey. Including my former Neighbor Joe Cocker with whom we had Dinner. See attached below a Study on Alcoholism Treatments:
'Overall, that [Project MATCH] study detected no significant differences among the three treatments in patient outcome, although certain treatment methodologies may be most appropriate for patients with certain characteristics.'
Me, I can't imagine waking up and rehashing my 'choice' of Sobriety daily ODAAT. Exhausting. So, I don't.
I 'get' what GT imaged up-thread. Lock up the AV/Beast in a personal caged Zoo. Or, in my Gun Safe. Or, write it out, and put that crumpled Paper in the bottom of a Fence Post Hole, and cover it forever in Concrete. What EVER ! Forever dismissing the AV makes the complex, simple. The ongoing Muscle Memory of living Sober long-term keeps it so. Long Time Sober Folks I meet at Dog Parks, or at RV Parks, represent what I call 'The SoberSphere'. They're out doing it; virtually all with no ongoing Program involvement. I balance that immense Universe of experience with SR insights.
Your Employer will survive if you don't wake up tomorrow. Hold that thought, and treat any Job with appropriate detachment while giving it your 110%. Been there. Done that.
Sober Serenity First.
~ NIHAA Alcoholism Treatment Study ~
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
broster,
Tell me again what quat means?
I swear I'll write it down somewhere.
I kinda sorta watched one lecture, scanned some flamey articles, so that's all I know of the man. Given my fondness for you, I will dig deeper with hope that this will not quash my affections.
Tell me again what quat means?
I swear I'll write it down somewhere.
I kinda sorta watched one lecture, scanned some flamey articles, so that's all I know of the man. Given my fondness for you, I will dig deeper with hope that this will not quash my affections.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by MesaMan
.
If a Person wants any remote chance of stepping up on the Dais at an Olympics, they develop Muscle Memory relentlessly. 'Feeling' like it or not.
If a Person wants any remote chance of stepping up on the Dais at an Olympics, they develop Muscle Memory relentlessly. 'Feeling' like it or not.
It is entirely possible to compartmentalize Never Drinking Again into that Lockbox of 'things I just don't do'.
2 exceptions: Mental Illness, or Dual Diagnosis.
Including my former Neighbor Joe Cocker with whom we had Dinner.
Me, I can't imagine waking up and rehashing my 'choice' of Sobriety daily ODAAT. Exhausting. So, I don't. I 'get' what GT imaged up-thread.
Your Employer will survive if you don't wake up tomorrow.
One of this week's revelations/freedoms is that there's something seriously awry at work that needs to be confronted, but none of that is so important that I should flip out about it. Or at the very least, if I'm going to flip out, I absolutely (Absolut-ly, ha!) cannot land in a bottle.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
And yes, fini, I do want to talk about the Serenity Prayer some more - tried last night but it got too convoluted. Remind me later if I forget.
Flipsy, oh Flipsy, I hope you are faring well and your ribs are feeling much betta.
Flipsy, oh Flipsy, I hope you are faring well and your ribs are feeling much betta.
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
Why is three meetings a day for thirty days a good idea? Or one every day for 90 days. Or any regular committment.
What you're basically dealing with are deeply ingrained responses to wanting.
Wanting something that is not, to be.
Wanting something that is, to not be.
The result being drinking. In other words 'bad habit'.
By setting youself up to go to a lot of meetings in a space of time, and sticking to it no matter what, you start to rewrite your habits. In time your habitual response to wanting becomes 'positively dealing with the wanting'.
So, the key is to persist. Make the commitment and stick to it, no matter what!. The change happens when you have had enough and talk yourself into reneging - but: you don't. You stick to it no matter what. That's when the habit changes.
What you're basically dealing with are deeply ingrained responses to wanting.
Wanting something that is not, to be.
Wanting something that is, to not be.
The result being drinking. In other words 'bad habit'.
By setting youself up to go to a lot of meetings in a space of time, and sticking to it no matter what, you start to rewrite your habits. In time your habitual response to wanting becomes 'positively dealing with the wanting'.
So, the key is to persist. Make the commitment and stick to it, no matter what!. The change happens when you have had enough and talk yourself into reneging - but: you don't. You stick to it no matter what. That's when the habit changes.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by Grymt
So, the key is to persist. Make the commitment and stick to it, no matter what!. The change happens when you have had enough and talk yourself into reneging - but: you don't. You stick to it no matter what. That's when the habit changes.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
On my way home from detox Monday, I got a message that the building where our usual meeting is held would be closed. I decided on the spot that I'd host the meeting at my house - because I needed one. So I messaged a half dozen people for whom I had contact information and told them to pass it on, and a dozen people appeared.
I think it's the single best thing I've ever done for other people and myself all at the same time. The feeling of community was almost palpable... and that was before I realized that only one person in the room knew I'd been released from detox just that morning. It was really beautiful. I "get it" now. As my favorite AA biker curmudgeon says "How good it is to see how good it is."
I think it's the single best thing I've ever done for other people and myself all at the same time. The feeling of community was almost palpable... and that was before I realized that only one person in the room knew I'd been released from detox just that morning. It was really beautiful. I "get it" now. As my favorite AA biker curmudgeon says "How good it is to see how good it is."
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Met with Occupational Health today. My nurse was fairly new, so I helped orient her to the process. She called the Employee Assistance Program to make an appointment for me (as per protocol) and they said they'd call her back with a date/time once they had one - earliest possibility 12/26. Ok, then... I knew this meant the soonest I'd be able to return to work would be early January. Bummer. I did it to myself. But what really didn't sit well was how my actions were impacting the rest of my team.
Had to get my 2016 tax return to Tuscon by the following day (sista from a different mista, are you with me?), so toddled off to the Fed Ex Store with laptop and USB cord in hand. Went to the counter and told the guy I needed to print and send the thing. He said, "ok..." And I said, "ok...? Can you help me to do that?" And he said, "Well, you'd need a flash drive... or an email." (I'm thinking basically a laptop and a USB cord is an enormous flash drive but ok...) Emailed him the file, they printed it and when I then asked to ship it, he said they couldn't ship to a PO Box. Oy. Off to the Post Office. And you can imagine that story so I'll spare you but anyhow it got done.
Went to my new IOP for intake. Got a really great first impression of the place from the sense of humor I encountered in the bathroom. The usual "Don't flush the wrong stuff" sign above the toilet reads something like:
Do not flush tampons or applicators
(seriously)
Also
Paper Towels
~
Wipes
~
Hopes & Dreams
~
Kittens or Puppies
The social worker who did my intake was great. Very down-to-earth, relatable, didn't waste my time. She explained that I just needed to make x meetings/week, but I could determine my own schedule. So, for instance, if I found a group counselor that I really liked, I could always schedule that session. If Tuesday evening didn't work this week for some reason, I could attend Saturday afternoon instead. Cool.
Made it to a meeting. It was fine, but I was a little sad for the secretary. He mentioned he would be stepping down at the end of the year. He was the only home group member and had no speaker. I dunno - if I were in that position, I would be feeling pretty demoralized.
Spoke at great length with the young woman I really like from the last rehab that I took to detox a few weeks ago. Turns out she discharged from detox, drank, tried to od on librium, went back to detox, went back to iop and is drinking again. And is lying to them. I'm very sad about this and have no idea how to help her, if I should be there for her at all, if I should be there with boundaries, if if if. I don't know.
She called the Employee Assistance Program to make an appointment for me (as per protocol) and they said they'd call her back with a date/time once they had one - earliest possibility 12/26. Ok, then... I knew this meant the soonest I'd be able to return to work would be early January. Bummer. I did it to myself. But what really didn't sit well was how my actions were impacting the rest of my team.Had to get my 2016 tax return to Tuscon by the following day (sista from a different mista, are you with me?), so toddled off to the Fed Ex Store with laptop and USB cord in hand. Went to the counter and told the guy I needed to print and send the thing. He said, "ok..." And I said, "ok...? Can you help me to do that?" And he said, "Well, you'd need a flash drive... or an email." (I'm thinking basically a laptop and a USB cord is an enormous flash drive but ok...) Emailed him the file, they printed it and when I then asked to ship it, he said they couldn't ship to a PO Box. Oy. Off to the Post Office. And you can imagine that story so I'll spare you but anyhow it got done.
Went to my new IOP for intake. Got a really great first impression of the place from the sense of humor I encountered in the bathroom.
The usual "Don't flush the wrong stuff" sign above the toilet reads something like:Do not flush tampons or applicators
(seriously)
Also
Paper Towels
~
Wipes
~
Hopes & Dreams
~
Kittens or Puppies
The social worker who did my intake was great. Very down-to-earth, relatable, didn't waste my time. She explained that I just needed to make x meetings/week, but I could determine my own schedule. So, for instance, if I found a group counselor that I really liked, I could always schedule that session. If Tuesday evening didn't work this week for some reason, I could attend Saturday afternoon instead. Cool.
Made it to a meeting. It was fine, but I was a little sad for the secretary. He mentioned he would be stepping down at the end of the year. He was the only home group member and had no speaker. I dunno - if I were in that position, I would be feeling pretty demoralized.
Spoke at great length with the young woman I really like from the last rehab that I took to detox a few weeks ago. Turns out she discharged from detox, drank, tried to od on librium, went back to detox, went back to iop and is drinking again. And is lying to them. I'm very sad about this and have no idea how to help her, if I should be there for her at all, if I should be there with boundaries, if if if. I don't know.
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
Ok. The next one to get is doing it (whatever positive anti drinking activity you may have committed to do, meetings, whatever) when you don't want to do it or think you don't need it. Thwarting the decision to stop doing it and doing it anyway. That's when lasting change may happen. That's when you start to let go of wanting-not wanting. It's like staring into the abyss and finally beginning to see it stare back. It's when you realise how important the meetings (or whatever, therapy, coping skills) are.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Wednesday went to see my therapist and had a good but difficult meeting. Feeling that deep remorse and shame at my reprehensible and infantile drunken self was... you know. Painful.
Grymt, I was already ready to skip a meeting but knew not to, so off I went. And wow, what a meeting I found. It was absolutely wonderful. There was a woman celebrating 30-something years and she was a delightful hoot. Her contemporaries and other regulars who shared were equally entertaining. It was a neat meeting. If ever I happen to be off work at noon on Wednesday, I'll make a point to go there again.
Deciding to deal with some unfinished business, I called the IOP I ghosted last month (the counselor did finally call and leave a voice mail while I was in detox). I spoke with the supervisor because my counselor wasn't available; told her I would not be returning and would be happy to explain why if she was interested. She was and so I did. Supervisor said essentially, "We dropped the ball with you and it shouldn't have happened that way. Good for you for advocating for yourself; this will benefit other clients and our program."
First night of new IOP.
Loved it. The people were real. There was lots of interaction. People felt entirely free to interject when the counselor was interacting with any one of the clients. The discussion was (mainly) relevant and meaningful.
In the "nothing's perfect" arena, there's one really young player who really really really doesn't get it. Like anything "it." We had a crazy conversation with him about how he has unprotected sex with his girlfriend but it's ok because he uses protection with his ho's. O.M.G.
In the "holy crap I just dodged a bullet" arena, I learned by the grace of God that this counselor I absolutely abhorred at rehab a couple of years ago is a counselor at this IOP on Monday nights!! O.M.G. Guess what evening will never EVER be on my schedule for IOP? DanG
Had a very long conversation with my sister-in-law, the one who was married to my younger brother who died last year in 9 days from now. She and I have only had a few lengthy talks and we both agree that it's ridiculous because we really love each other. We're just both isolators so it's hard to change that habit. But I'm gonna work on changing that habit because it's on my list (Scott ). Anyhow, she told me - and I know it's true - that this conversation was just as good for her as it was for me. And I loved that. Loved that I was able to relieve her of a burden she's been carrying secretly and entirely needlessly all year since he died.
And I thought... Why worry about getting fired (which is unlikely anyhow)? Maybe you should focus on healing the wounds that prevent you from going home and get back there, woman!
Grymt, I was already ready to skip a meeting but knew not to, so off I went. And wow, what a meeting I found. It was absolutely wonderful. There was a woman celebrating 30-something years and she was a delightful hoot. Her contemporaries and other regulars who shared were equally entertaining. It was a neat meeting. If ever I happen to be off work at noon on Wednesday, I'll make a point to go there again.
Deciding to deal with some unfinished business, I called the IOP I ghosted last month (the counselor did finally call and leave a voice mail while I was in detox). I spoke with the supervisor because my counselor wasn't available; told her I would not be returning and would be happy to explain why if she was interested. She was and so I did. Supervisor said essentially, "We dropped the ball with you and it shouldn't have happened that way. Good for you for advocating for yourself; this will benefit other clients and our program."
First night of new IOP.
Loved it. The people were real. There was lots of interaction. People felt entirely free to interject when the counselor was interacting with any one of the clients. The discussion was (mainly) relevant and meaningful.
In the "nothing's perfect" arena, there's one really young player who really really really doesn't get it. Like anything "it." We had a crazy conversation with him about how he has unprotected sex with his girlfriend but it's ok because he uses protection with his ho's. O.M.G.
In the "holy crap I just dodged a bullet" arena, I learned by the grace of God that this counselor I absolutely abhorred at rehab a couple of years ago is a counselor at this IOP on Monday nights!! O.M.G. Guess what evening will never EVER be on my schedule for IOP? DanG
Had a very long conversation with my sister-in-law, the one who was married to my younger brother who died last year in 9 days from now. She and I have only had a few lengthy talks and we both agree that it's ridiculous because we really love each other. We're just both isolators so it's hard to change that habit. But I'm gonna work on changing that habit because it's on my list (Scott
). Anyhow, she told me - and I know it's true - that this conversation was just as good for her as it was for me. And I loved that. Loved that I was able to relieve her of a burden she's been carrying secretly and entirely needlessly all year since he died. And I thought... Why worry about getting fired (which is unlikely anyhow)? Maybe you should focus on healing the wounds that prevent you from going home and get back there, woman!
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by Grymt
Ok. The next one to get is doing it (whatever positive anti drinking activity you may have committed to do, meetings, whatever) when you don't want to do it or think you don't need it. Thwarting the decision to stop doing it and doing it anyway. That's when lasting change may happen. That's when you start to let go of wanting-not wanting. It's like staring into the abyss and finally beginning to see it stare back. It's when you realise how important the meetings (or whatever, therapy, coping skills) are.
I did report here and elsewhere the pulling away, but the beast quite typically did not disclose It's motives. Out of politeness or whathaveyou, folks hesitated to hit the panic button. There was a conference and the button is on order. I will carry it with me at all times because it is primarily my responsibility to monitor for signs of system failure, but I fully intend to equip all willing participants with remote devices.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
.
Hey O ~
In the hope of providing some insights, I'll reference your comments in Italics...
'Yep. Whatever it takes. The question is what is the "it" for you? I don't mean the literal you, but the generic you because of course it varies'
This whole Muscle Memory Construct saves us, I think, when extreme Life Perturbations might default us into old, undesired responses. For me, it might be putting down our beloved Pooch in a few Years. My Alk response won't happen. I won't permit it, and Muscle Memory-style Training will keep me Sober. This same style of Training is used by Airline Pilots, or Police, to cope reliably and predictably with the unforeseen. Such Coping Response Training is what I mean by 'it'.
'The other examples you cited are concerned with harming others whereas abuse of substances primarily harms the abuser. Or so it may seem.'
Fair enough. I don't differentiate here between harming others, or myself. BECAUSE, I think this whole Muscle Memory Training [of sorts] can help us to Auto-Pilot to the desired, preferred response [not downing that first Drink]. IF this assumption is true, what does it matter that either Scenario you identify dictates the possible iron-clad response, eh? Indeed, I would further suggest that's my sneaky AV whispering to fool me into any differentiation. 'Off the Table' forever, as GT posits in his own language, means exactly what it says re: no further drinking. NO exceptions.
'Not following? Is this a complete thought or did I chop it up incorrectly'
I was too terse, perhaps, in trying to acknowledge legitimate Medical exceptions to the idea that most all of us can up and quit IF underlying issues are then addressed. Exceptions to this generalizated truth are when there's the seriously-complicating Variables of Mental Illness, or Dual Diagnoses. One of my Mentors here over in Secular - freshstart57 - really nailed this one by noting that, when he sobered up, MANY of his underlying issues went away. Presto!
Re: Dinner with Joe Cocker.
'Shameless namedropping!! What did he have? Who paid'
Kinda guilty, Your Honor, but with an explanation.
Joe is one of my Poster Boy Heroes who confirms many can just up and quit. Medical support if required, of course. He walked into the Snooker Parlor of his ~15,000 sq. ft. Mansion, and informed his Pals he'd quit drinking. In his remarkable Obit in a U.K. Newspaper, an early '70s Career 'low' of his was revisited. He walked out on Stage at the L.A. Forum in a Puke-encrusted Jacket. In front of ~18,000 Fans, after performing a few Songs, he laid down and blacked out.
Because there were 3, and not 4 of us, we got seated in 3 empty Chairs at his Table of 8 at a Fund Raiser. He was a quiet old Grandpa figure who raised Heirloom Tomatoes. We Contributors paid for our own Dinners featuring his Ranch Cattle Steaks to help needy local Kids buy School Supplies, and take Educational Trips. A real Philanthropist.
My take-away: if an extreme Alk like Joe can sober up after Decades, so can I.
Re: ODAAT, I'll try to isolate and extract the conditional 'Day' aspect of this:
'GT's Big Plan is equivalent to "I never Now drink" which is equivalent to "I Never Drink Today." It's not a decision you make every day. It's just irrelevant every day until is IS today.'
QUITE the opposite, IMO. My practice - and take on this - is to vigorously commit to the *forever pledge* part of The Big Plan. There is no 'today' contingency. I note there is LOTS of conditional talk here on SR that one cannot positively know what the future holds, and what we might do. To which I respond: bollocks! I know EXACTLY what my future response to possible Intoxication might be. Rejection of any and all such possible inducements. Perhaps this is partially a Genetics-based characteristic, but I have proven over Decades to possess it. Full stop. If others are unsure about their future Drinking, that's solely on them. Not me. I am not claiming to be 'cured'. I am claiming to have relentlessly fine-tuned the management of future Drinking, Olympics-style, to ensure the desired Sober Outcome. My Inner Optimist believes most of us can do this.
A Female EMT Pal notes that some Folks run away from danger. Her Team instinctively runs toward it. Indeed, she has been in Urban situations where AR 15-packing Soldiers provide her Team Semi-Auto Gunfire to suppress Sniper Fire when they're being shot at while trying to save Lives. In a like manner, I extrapolate from her experience this core difference: some of us black-out Drunks can dig deep, quit, and stay quat.
Others need very different types of support mechanisms. Such is the diverse spectrum of Alks.
'...being indispensable is a crock...'
Clearly, you've had this one covered for Years! I interpreted some of your written, Job-related angst differently before you filled us in.
Five Years ago this Sunday, Joe Cocker passed on at 70 Years old. Astonishingly, Alcohol didn't get him. Small Cell Lung Cancer did; even though he'd quit Smoking some ~20 Years earlier. My Signature Song to those here on SR who have been the sole Support Network for this kinda-Introvert...
~ With A Little Help From My Friends ~ Joe Cocker ~ Live ~
Hey O ~
In the hope of providing some insights, I'll reference your comments in Italics...
'Yep. Whatever it takes. The question is what is the "it" for you? I don't mean the literal you, but the generic you because of course it varies'
This whole Muscle Memory Construct saves us, I think, when extreme Life Perturbations might default us into old, undesired responses. For me, it might be putting down our beloved Pooch in a few Years. My Alk response won't happen. I won't permit it, and Muscle Memory-style Training will keep me Sober. This same style of Training is used by Airline Pilots, or Police, to cope reliably and predictably with the unforeseen. Such Coping Response Training is what I mean by 'it'.
'The other examples you cited are concerned with harming others whereas abuse of substances primarily harms the abuser. Or so it may seem.'
Fair enough. I don't differentiate here between harming others, or myself. BECAUSE, I think this whole Muscle Memory Training [of sorts] can help us to Auto-Pilot to the desired, preferred response [not downing that first Drink]. IF this assumption is true, what does it matter that either Scenario you identify dictates the possible iron-clad response, eh? Indeed, I would further suggest that's my sneaky AV whispering to fool me into any differentiation. 'Off the Table' forever, as GT posits in his own language, means exactly what it says re: no further drinking. NO exceptions.
'Not following? Is this a complete thought or did I chop it up incorrectly'
I was too terse, perhaps, in trying to acknowledge legitimate Medical exceptions to the idea that most all of us can up and quit IF underlying issues are then addressed. Exceptions to this generalizated truth are when there's the seriously-complicating Variables of Mental Illness, or Dual Diagnoses. One of my Mentors here over in Secular - freshstart57 - really nailed this one by noting that, when he sobered up, MANY of his underlying issues went away. Presto!
Re: Dinner with Joe Cocker.
'Shameless namedropping!! What did he have? Who paid'
Kinda guilty, Your Honor, but with an explanation.
Joe is one of my Poster Boy Heroes who confirms many can just up and quit. Medical support if required, of course. He walked into the Snooker Parlor of his ~15,000 sq. ft. Mansion, and informed his Pals he'd quit drinking. In his remarkable Obit in a U.K. Newspaper, an early '70s Career 'low' of his was revisited. He walked out on Stage at the L.A. Forum in a Puke-encrusted Jacket. In front of ~18,000 Fans, after performing a few Songs, he laid down and blacked out.
Because there were 3, and not 4 of us, we got seated in 3 empty Chairs at his Table of 8 at a Fund Raiser. He was a quiet old Grandpa figure who raised Heirloom Tomatoes. We Contributors paid for our own Dinners featuring his Ranch Cattle Steaks to help needy local Kids buy School Supplies, and take Educational Trips. A real Philanthropist.
My take-away: if an extreme Alk like Joe can sober up after Decades, so can I.
Re: ODAAT, I'll try to isolate and extract the conditional 'Day' aspect of this:
'GT's Big Plan is equivalent to "I never Now drink" which is equivalent to "I Never Drink Today." It's not a decision you make every day. It's just irrelevant every day until is IS today.'
QUITE the opposite, IMO. My practice - and take on this - is to vigorously commit to the *forever pledge* part of The Big Plan. There is no 'today' contingency. I note there is LOTS of conditional talk here on SR that one cannot positively know what the future holds, and what we might do. To which I respond: bollocks! I know EXACTLY what my future response to possible Intoxication might be. Rejection of any and all such possible inducements. Perhaps this is partially a Genetics-based characteristic, but I have proven over Decades to possess it. Full stop. If others are unsure about their future Drinking, that's solely on them. Not me. I am not claiming to be 'cured'. I am claiming to have relentlessly fine-tuned the management of future Drinking, Olympics-style, to ensure the desired Sober Outcome. My Inner Optimist believes most of us can do this.
A Female EMT Pal notes that some Folks run away from danger. Her Team instinctively runs toward it. Indeed, she has been in Urban situations where AR 15-packing Soldiers provide her Team Semi-Auto Gunfire to suppress Sniper Fire when they're being shot at while trying to save Lives. In a like manner, I extrapolate from her experience this core difference: some of us black-out Drunks can dig deep, quit, and stay quat.
Others need very different types of support mechanisms. Such is the diverse spectrum of Alks.'...being indispensable is a crock...'
Clearly, you've had this one covered for Years! I interpreted some of your written, Job-related angst differently before you filled us in.
Five Years ago this Sunday, Joe Cocker passed on at 70 Years old. Astonishingly, Alcohol didn't get him. Small Cell Lung Cancer did; even though he'd quit Smoking some ~20 Years earlier. My Signature Song to those here on SR who have been the sole Support Network for this kinda-Introvert...
~ With A Little Help From My Friends ~ Joe Cocker ~ Live ~
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Mesaman, your approach has kept me sober for over two years. I do it pretty much exactly as you describe.
My depression (it’s palpable: my tiny doggie died Sunday, lost my brother in law, still intensely grieving my dad) is unrelated to my sobriety. It has nothing to do with it, because the sobriety just IS, it has its own separate compartment that doesn’t relate to depression, happiness, frustration, desire to celebrate, etc.
It FORCES coping, in other ways. Drinking is shut down, so the drifting into the brain of alcohol thinking or imagery drifts right out, and the brain focuses on other ways to handle the situation, over and over, until it’s just what we do.
My addiction will throw anything it wants at me, but “it” knows I simply won’t go there. “It” gives up and it gives up earlier and earlier each time until it’s just a whisper, really.
Someone mentioned also that the high is forgotten....it’s true, I don’t remember as clearly how good it felt, so that enforces the absurdity of doing it again, as if there weren’t enough absurd reasons, what does that high even feel like again?
A complete system shut down for drinking, plus time: makes sobriety possible.
My depression (it’s palpable: my tiny doggie died Sunday, lost my brother in law, still intensely grieving my dad) is unrelated to my sobriety. It has nothing to do with it, because the sobriety just IS, it has its own separate compartment that doesn’t relate to depression, happiness, frustration, desire to celebrate, etc.
It FORCES coping, in other ways. Drinking is shut down, so the drifting into the brain of alcohol thinking or imagery drifts right out, and the brain focuses on other ways to handle the situation, over and over, until it’s just what we do.
My addiction will throw anything it wants at me, but “it” knows I simply won’t go there. “It” gives up and it gives up earlier and earlier each time until it’s just a whisper, really.
Someone mentioned also that the high is forgotten....it’s true, I don’t remember as clearly how good it felt, so that enforces the absurdity of doing it again, as if there weren’t enough absurd reasons, what does that high even feel like again?
A complete system shut down for drinking, plus time: makes sobriety possible.
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