More than 1 Addiction - How Many Times Do You Work the Steps?
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Originally Posted by AnonSara 
I agree with not giving it too much thought. We over think things.
Personally, I find that I need to be reminded and focus on aspects of many of the steps possibly multiple times a day. When I feel myself getting off track, having a strong AV in my head, over thinking/ analyzing things that have simple answers, acting out toward people in an appropriate ways...
I consider the steps not as a check list to go through but as a framework to live my life. Good luck to you!
Personally, I find that I need to be reminded and focus on aspects of many of the steps possibly multiple times a day. When I feel myself getting off track, having a strong AV in my head, over thinking/ analyzing things that have simple answers, acting out toward people in an appropriate ways...
I consider the steps not as a check list to go through but as a framework to live my life. Good luck to you!
Yes overthinking definitely comes into play here too.
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Originally Posted by sugarbear1
I worked the steps at 2 weeks of sobriety with amazing results (obsession lifted). I worked the 12 steps again at 4 months, 8 months (learned the sponsor's role this time through) and at 18 months of sobriety. When I get squirrely or feel off-center, I work through those 12 steps with my sponsor.
I want the kind of sponsor who can help me work through the steps when I get squirrely. I'm assuming you mean it's over one phone call, and not a thorough re-working of them, yes?
My home group members work the steps more than once. Some of these people have 30 years of sobriety and continue to work the steps (all 12) with their sponsor. They claim that they are not the same person today that they were a month ago, so there will always be something to learn when working through the steps honestly.
Why not work the steps again? They don't need to take a long time to work through. Just take a look at you through the step-work and see what happens (again!).
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If you were drinking when you did the steps the first time, or started drinking after, wouldn't it make sense to do them again? If I started taking and abusing drugs tomorrow, I would consider that a fresh problem and not one addressed by having done the steps before (for alcohol in my case). I don't think going through the steps is considered one-and-done if you fall back into addiction after doing them.
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steps 1-3 is one day or a few hours, step 4 is one day/night of writing (usually before bed), a night of not great sleeping followed by an early morning meeting for step 5 which can take 6-8 hours, maybe 4 hours, steps 6 and 7 immediately following 5 or when you get home, next week is step 8/9 discussion followed by a discussion for the amends and maybe adding to steps 10 & 11, if needed. About 2-3 weeks, 3 days of work. Not a one time phone call for me. Work and thinking are necessary..... 
It IS difficult finding people who can work the steps this way! but we CAN find them!
It IS difficult finding people who can work the steps this way! but we CAN find them!
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Originally Posted by Frickaflip233
Oh that's right....you quit one addiction 4 years ago (NA maybe?) but have just quit alcohol. So are you saying you want an AA sponsor? If that's the case, then maybe. I dunno. But if you were drinking alcoholically while doing the steps for the other addiction, um, something seems off. But if you just finished them..... Oh man I'm confused. More info please 
That being said, I don't understand why so many people in recovery think that only alcohol or drugs are addictions. There are many other addictions out there besides alcohol and drugs, although, yes those are the most deadly. But the mental and spiritual components are similar in the other addictions. There are many other groups besides AA and NA.
That being said, I've heard others in my open AA group talk about drug addiction and my heart goes out to anyone who has ever struggled with drug addiction. The pain is similar, though it seems worse for addicts, than my other addiction.
One time I shared about my other addiction in my open AA group. Just once. It was a raw share. My sponsor let it slip and said that afterward, one of the other sponsors rolled his eyes and said to her, "Is Centered going to talk about _________ again?" I guess that comment is still bothering me. And this was a person I respected and cried over when I was new to rooms and he'd share. I guess it means nothing that I attempted suicide years ago and this addiction was a major reason. Yes alcohol was involved but it was "manageable" (high functioning?) at the time because this other addiction stepped in front of the alcohol. Darn it, I wish there were other people out there who experienced alcoholism and addiction like I did, because it's frustrating.
It's also frustrating because this is an old timer to my open AA meeting--where the group leader believes that the step work can help anyone with any addiction. We're allowed to talk about any addiction there, not just alcohol and not just drugs, either. Maybe this is why I've been squirrely lately. That comment really got to me. My shares have been healthy shares--I only talk about the steps and God. I am very hurt he made that comment. Had I shared about drugs, in an open AA meeting, he probably wouldn't have said it. He's one who also thinks that the only real addictions are alcohol or drugs/pills. Do most of you think that, too? Maybe I should find some other type of recovery, then, where I'd belong.
I just don't know if I feel "good enough" and safe to talk about my other addiction which is not drugs/pills or the like, thinking you all will minimize it, like he did. Alcohol wasn't my low bottom; it was a higher bottom. This other addiction, that wasn't drugs or pills, was my low bottom. So why do I feel "less than" in SR and in the rooms? I apologize if my posts were unclear. I think I was wanting you all to think that's what I was talking about, so you'd accept me. But no. I really wasn't. I'm sorry about that.
I need to be true to myself and be okay with my other addiction and if someone on SR or in my open AA meeting minimizes it, that's about them and not me. And no one's opinion matters to me anyway. Just God's. And only He knows my pain, and isn't keeping score if it was less than or more than someone else's. We all deserve recovery.
Somedays I don't even feel like I belong in any of my meetings or otherwise and it is getting me stuck in ego. Not a good place to be in. Aren't there any others out there where their addictions weren't just alcohol and/or drugs? If not safe to talk about it in my open AA meeting or on SR, then where?
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Originally Posted by fantail
If you were drinking when you did the steps the first time, or started drinking after, wouldn't it make sense to do them again? If I started taking and abusing drugs tomorrow, I would consider that a fresh problem and not one addressed by having done the steps before (for alcohol in my case). I don't think going through the steps is considered one-and-done if you fall back into addiction after doing them.
Didn't pick up but holy crap the urge was there like it hasn't been in a long time and it scared me and pissed me off that something's wrong with my recovery. And my step work had taken a long freaking time. Then again as step 11 says, we can't rest on our laurels and alcohol is a subtle foe.
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Hi C3,
Just to respond to your post above about other addictions and AA and SR etc. We are in the alcoholism forum. There will be some people here/in AA who know about other addictions but I am not one of them. When they get discussed in a meeting, you might as well be talking Chinese to me. I have had some addictions explained to me and I don't doubt their existence or how nasty they can be, but I have no experience of them.
The other thing to think about is the newcomer alcoholic who is at his first meeting wondering if he is in the right place. For his sake we better be talking about our common problem.
I don't believe you need a sponsor to help you with this. Also I agree you may not need to go through the steps from scratch. I hear that a lot. Someone changes sponsor and they are made to start all over again. How many times can you make the same amends? It is a daft idea. The book does not tell us to do thet, even when someone relapses it tells us to continue to work with them and try and work out where they went wrong. Other than step one, such a problem may commonly be found in step 5 or 9. Read about Br Bob in A Vision For You.
I think the idea in this (starting again) is using the steps as a psychological tool and giving your sponsor all the information they need to run your life for you. What the book says on this? I have to para phrase,
"The minute we put our work on a service plain the alcoholic commences to rely on is instead of God." We are doping him a disservice.
Above is an example of the daily program in action. Your post gave me the opportunity to revisit most of the steps for myself. That's how it works.
Just to respond to your post above about other addictions and AA and SR etc. We are in the alcoholism forum. There will be some people here/in AA who know about other addictions but I am not one of them. When they get discussed in a meeting, you might as well be talking Chinese to me. I have had some addictions explained to me and I don't doubt their existence or how nasty they can be, but I have no experience of them.
The other thing to think about is the newcomer alcoholic who is at his first meeting wondering if he is in the right place. For his sake we better be talking about our common problem.
Originally Posted by Centered3
"Thanks, Mike. This was very helpful. I knew this, but then it makes me confused why sponsors in our group push us out of the nest once we no longer need help with amends? I still want guidance in living in the steps now and how to live along spiritual lines."
Yes there does seem to be a tendency for sponsors to quit at step nine. I teach the basics of ten eleven and twelve. You don't need a sponsor for this. Someone who has taken the steps that you can call once in a while, or talk to after a meeting is all that is required.
Look at step ten, watching out for dishonesty, fear, etc. when they crop up we ask God at once to remove them. We may need to discuss an issue, we may need to make amends. This is an issue by issue deal, as they crop up in life. It does not require someone who knows your whole life story.
Step eleven, planning the day, assessing the day, seeking God's will. Test for God's will, is it pure? Is it loving? Is it unselfish? Is it honest?. And if still uncertain about God's will, have a talk to someone, even out side of AA. Doesn't need to be a sponsor.
"I've posted about my personal situation on the Step 12 thread. I'm going to look to get my dog certified as a therapy dog next week and hope to go volunteer at the place with the people I met while walking her. I'm still confused about taking people through my steps at my home group, because now my sponsor says I should go up and ask them if they're working with anyone. But that to me is promotion and not attraction. She personally does well in her sobriety without focusing so much on step 12. She focuses more on 10 and 11. Personally, I think it's because she had a very bad experience with trying to help a newcomer and that scared her into not reaching out too much anymore."
To quote the book, "nothing will so much insure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics" "Alcoholics working with each other is vital to permanent recovery." There is no way out of this one if you want the recovery "with bells on". 12 step is not optional.
The chapter about working with others tells us to go looking for alcoholics to work with, and even makes suggestions as to where they may be found. The search is not so diffiicult these days because there are plenty in meetings in need of the message.
If you really want to learn the program, experience shows the best way is by teaching it to someone else.
Attraction rather than promotion? - step 12 cop out. It is part of the tradition on public relations policy (let our friends reccomend us). It is not part of our recovery program which tells us to carry the message to the alcholic, not wait for him or her to somehow be magically attracted to us.
"Thanks for clarifying this. It gets confusing when I go to other meetings and they don't practice it this way. LOL navel gazing, I'd never heard that expression before. I love your last sentence and am going to write it down in my big book because its so true. "
It is probably more efficient and takes less time to do an annual step 4 and 5, as opposed to an issue by issue step 10/11. But the price is living with a growing ppile of unresolved issues until step time comes around again. I'd rather not have the discomfort.
"YES that is what I was taught, too, and that's what I thought. I think the other meetings were just confusing me. My sponsor even thinks I was so out of sorts these last couple of weeks because of--and not in spite of--going to all these new meetings. "
That seems to be your experience now, rather than something you were taught in the acedemic sense.
"No. I need more guidance in living in 10, 11, and 12 and processing what I am learning. I don't need to do another 4th step if I'm doing a 10th step. I need to work harder at not letting my crushed ego rebuild. Or I need to figure out if I "missed something" in my work."
Perfection is not the goal. If you missed something, you will be brought back to it. No big deal.
More from the book: " What used to be the hunch or the occasional inspiration gradually becomes a working part of the mind. Being still inexperienced and having just made conscious contact with God, it is not probable that we are going to be inspired at all times. We might pay for this presumption in all sorts of absurd actions and ideas. Nevertheless, we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it.
We usually conclude the period of meditation with a prayer that we be shown all through the day what our next step is to be, that we be given whatever we need to take care of such problems. We ask especially for freedom from self-will, and are careful to make no request for ourselves only. We may ask for ourselves, however, if others will be helped. We are careful never to pray for our own selfish ends. Many of us have wasted a lot of time doing that and it doesn't work. You can easily see why.
If circumstances warrant, we ask our wives or friends to join us in morning meditation. If we belong to a religious denomination which requires a definite morning devotion, we attend to that also. If not members of religious bodies, we sometimes select and memorize a few set prayers which emphasize the principles we have been discussing. There are many helpful books also. Suggestions about these may be obtained from one's priest, minister, or rabbi. Be quick to see where religious people are right. Make use of what they offer.
As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action. "
"I don't think so, either, but I needed to hear from others because it was all getting confusing. I remember asking a group leader at another AA meeting I liked if she'd be my Step 10, 11, and 12 sponsor. She said no, that I had to rework the steps with her, the way her group does it. I don't get it. I don't need to rework the steps.
I need a sponsor to help me get in the mode of living in 10, 11 and 12.
I was pushed out of the nest too soon.
Thanks, Mike.
Yes there does seem to be a tendency for sponsors to quit at step nine. I teach the basics of ten eleven and twelve. You don't need a sponsor for this. Someone who has taken the steps that you can call once in a while, or talk to after a meeting is all that is required.
Look at step ten, watching out for dishonesty, fear, etc. when they crop up we ask God at once to remove them. We may need to discuss an issue, we may need to make amends. This is an issue by issue deal, as they crop up in life. It does not require someone who knows your whole life story.
Step eleven, planning the day, assessing the day, seeking God's will. Test for God's will, is it pure? Is it loving? Is it unselfish? Is it honest?. And if still uncertain about God's will, have a talk to someone, even out side of AA. Doesn't need to be a sponsor.
"I've posted about my personal situation on the Step 12 thread. I'm going to look to get my dog certified as a therapy dog next week and hope to go volunteer at the place with the people I met while walking her. I'm still confused about taking people through my steps at my home group, because now my sponsor says I should go up and ask them if they're working with anyone. But that to me is promotion and not attraction. She personally does well in her sobriety without focusing so much on step 12. She focuses more on 10 and 11. Personally, I think it's because she had a very bad experience with trying to help a newcomer and that scared her into not reaching out too much anymore."
To quote the book, "nothing will so much insure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics" "Alcoholics working with each other is vital to permanent recovery." There is no way out of this one if you want the recovery "with bells on". 12 step is not optional.
The chapter about working with others tells us to go looking for alcoholics to work with, and even makes suggestions as to where they may be found. The search is not so diffiicult these days because there are plenty in meetings in need of the message.
If you really want to learn the program, experience shows the best way is by teaching it to someone else.
Attraction rather than promotion? - step 12 cop out. It is part of the tradition on public relations policy (let our friends reccomend us). It is not part of our recovery program which tells us to carry the message to the alcholic, not wait for him or her to somehow be magically attracted to us.
"Thanks for clarifying this. It gets confusing when I go to other meetings and they don't practice it this way. LOL navel gazing, I'd never heard that expression before. I love your last sentence and am going to write it down in my big book because its so true. "
It is probably more efficient and takes less time to do an annual step 4 and 5, as opposed to an issue by issue step 10/11. But the price is living with a growing ppile of unresolved issues until step time comes around again. I'd rather not have the discomfort.
"YES that is what I was taught, too, and that's what I thought. I think the other meetings were just confusing me. My sponsor even thinks I was so out of sorts these last couple of weeks because of--and not in spite of--going to all these new meetings. "
That seems to be your experience now, rather than something you were taught in the acedemic sense.
"No. I need more guidance in living in 10, 11, and 12 and processing what I am learning. I don't need to do another 4th step if I'm doing a 10th step. I need to work harder at not letting my crushed ego rebuild. Or I need to figure out if I "missed something" in my work."
Perfection is not the goal. If you missed something, you will be brought back to it. No big deal.
More from the book: " What used to be the hunch or the occasional inspiration gradually becomes a working part of the mind. Being still inexperienced and having just made conscious contact with God, it is not probable that we are going to be inspired at all times. We might pay for this presumption in all sorts of absurd actions and ideas. Nevertheless, we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it.
We usually conclude the period of meditation with a prayer that we be shown all through the day what our next step is to be, that we be given whatever we need to take care of such problems. We ask especially for freedom from self-will, and are careful to make no request for ourselves only. We may ask for ourselves, however, if others will be helped. We are careful never to pray for our own selfish ends. Many of us have wasted a lot of time doing that and it doesn't work. You can easily see why.
If circumstances warrant, we ask our wives or friends to join us in morning meditation. If we belong to a religious denomination which requires a definite morning devotion, we attend to that also. If not members of religious bodies, we sometimes select and memorize a few set prayers which emphasize the principles we have been discussing. There are many helpful books also. Suggestions about these may be obtained from one's priest, minister, or rabbi. Be quick to see where religious people are right. Make use of what they offer.
As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action. "
"I don't think so, either, but I needed to hear from others because it was all getting confusing. I remember asking a group leader at another AA meeting I liked if she'd be my Step 10, 11, and 12 sponsor. She said no, that I had to rework the steps with her, the way her group does it. I don't get it. I don't need to rework the steps.
I need a sponsor to help me get in the mode of living in 10, 11 and 12.
I was pushed out of the nest too soon.
Thanks, Mike.
I think the idea in this (starting again) is using the steps as a psychological tool and giving your sponsor all the information they need to run your life for you. What the book says on this? I have to para phrase,
"The minute we put our work on a service plain the alcoholic commences to rely on is instead of God." We are doping him a disservice.
Above is an example of the daily program in action. Your post gave me the opportunity to revisit most of the steps for myself. That's how it works.
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Originally Posted by sugarbear1
I worked the steps at 2 weeks of sobriety with amazing results (obsession lifted). I worked the 12 steps again at 4 months, 8 months (learned the sponsor's role this time through) and at 18 months of sobriety. When I get squirrely or feel off-center, I work through those 12 steps with my sponsor.
My home group members work the steps more than once. Some of these people have 30 years of sobriety and continue to work the steps (all 12) with their sponsor. They claim that they are not the same person today that they were a month ago, so there will always be something to learn when working through the steps honestly.
Why not work the steps again? They don't need to take a long time to work through. Just take a look at you through the step-work and see what happens (again!).
My home group members work the steps more than once. Some of these people have 30 years of sobriety and continue to work the steps (all 12) with their sponsor. They claim that they are not the same person today that they were a month ago, so there will always be something to learn when working through the steps honestly.
Why not work the steps again? They don't need to take a long time to work through. Just take a look at you through the step-work and see what happens (again!).
And agree- why not? Can't hurt!
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[QUOTE=Gottalife;6029768]Hi C3,
Hi Mike, thanks for your post. 
Thanks for pointing this out. I forget that on SR everyone's various addictions are segregated. My lineage has taught me that you can read the big book and replace the word "alcohol" or "drinking" with any and all addictions and it really does work (in like 99% of the reading because of substance addiction vs behavioral addiction).
In my open AA meeting, if someone is talking about an addiction I don't have, I think, "isn't that interesting, I acted the same way with alcohol, etc". I think it's helpful for me to see that, because the problem isn't the actual substance or behavior, but what we're using it for.
I agree with you that it could be confusing for a newcomer. I'm going to mention that any time going forward if I share on something other than alcohol. If you think about it, though, couldn't we all go to open meetings in any fellowship and replace the addiction word with our own and our stories would be exactly the same?
Thank you. This was very helpful. The part about repeating amends was exactly what confused me. Also, I wrote an extremely thorough inventory, and I wondered about having to repeat that.
This I didn't know. Thank you for pointing that out.
Yes this is so true, thank you for posting what it says in the book about this, I had forgotten. I am co-dependent and so I resisted at first that I'm in a fellowship where the sponsors are very hands off because they want us to rely on God and not them. But you are absolutely right.
I'd be thanking my sponsor and giving her credit for my sobriety, instead of God. And if something were to happen to my sponsor, then what? I was taught instead of relying solely on meeting, the fellowship, and a sponsor, to rely on God, because God is always there. I was also taught that we go to meetings to carry the message.
Just to respond to your post above about other addictions and AA and SR etc. We are in the alcoholism forum. There will be some people here/in AA who know about other addictions but I am not one of them. When they get discussed in a meeting, you might as well be talking Chinese to me. I have had some addictions explained to me and I don't doubt their existence or how nasty they can be, but I have no experience of them.
Thanks for pointing this out. I forget that on SR everyone's various addictions are segregated. My lineage has taught me that you can read the big book and replace the word "alcohol" or "drinking" with any and all addictions and it really does work (in like 99% of the reading because of substance addiction vs behavioral addiction). In my open AA meeting, if someone is talking about an addiction I don't have, I think, "isn't that interesting, I acted the same way with alcohol, etc". I think it's helpful for me to see that, because the problem isn't the actual substance or behavior, but what we're using it for.
The other thing to think about is the newcomer alcoholic who is at his first meeting wondering if he is in the right place. For his sake we better be talking about our common problem.
I don't believe you need a sponsor to help you with this. Also I agree you may not need to go through the steps from scratch. I hear that a lot. Someone changes sponsor and they are made to start all over again. How many times can you make the same amends? It is a daft idea.
The book does not tell us to do thet, even when someone relapses it tells us to continue to work with them and try and work out where they went wrong. Other than step one, such a problem may commonly be found in step 5 or 9. Read about Br Bob in A Vision For You.
I think the idea in this (starting again) is using the steps as a psychological tool and giving your sponsor all the information they need to run your life for you. What the book says on this? I have to para phrase,
"The minute we put our work on a service plain the alcoholic commences to rely on is instead of God." We are doping him a disservice.
"The minute we put our work on a service plain the alcoholic commences to rely on is instead of God." We are doping him a disservice.
I'd be thanking my sponsor and giving her credit for my sobriety, instead of God. And if something were to happen to my sponsor, then what? I was taught instead of relying solely on meeting, the fellowship, and a sponsor, to rely on God, because God is always there. I was also taught that we go to meetings to carry the message.
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