Originally Posted by Centered3

"Thanks, Mike. This was very helpful. I knew this, but then it makes me confused why sponsors in our group push us out of the nest once we no longer need help with amends? I still want guidance in living in the steps now and how to live along spiritual lines."

Yes there does seem to be a tendency for sponsors to quit at step nine. I teach the basics of ten eleven and twelve. You don't need a sponsor for this. Someone who has taken the steps that you can call once in a while, or talk to after a meeting is all that is required.

Look at step ten, watching out for dishonesty, fear, etc. when they crop up we ask God at once to remove them. We may need to discuss an issue, we may need to make amends. This is an issue by issue deal, as they crop up in life. It does not require someone who knows your whole life story.

Step eleven, planning the day, assessing the day, seeking God's will. Test for God's will, is it pure? Is it loving? Is it unselfish? Is it honest?. And if still uncertain about God's will, have a talk to someone, even out side of AA. Doesn't need to be a sponsor.



"I've posted about my personal situation on the Step 12 thread. I'm going to look to get my dog certified as a therapy dog next week and hope to go volunteer at the place with the people I met while walking her. I'm still confused about taking people through my steps at my home group, because now my sponsor says I should go up and ask them if they're working with anyone. But that to me is promotion and not attraction. She personally does well in her sobriety without focusing so much on step 12. She focuses more on 10 and 11. Personally, I think it's because she had a very bad experience with trying to help a newcomer and that scared her into not reaching out too much anymore."

To quote the book, "nothing will so much insure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics" "Alcoholics working with each other is vital to permanent recovery." There is no way out of this one if you want the recovery "with bells on". 12 step is not optional.

The chapter about working with others tells us to go looking for alcoholics to work with, and even makes suggestions as to where they may be found. The search is not so diffiicult these days because there are plenty in meetings in need of the message.

If you really want to learn the program, experience shows the best way is by teaching it to someone else.

Attraction rather than promotion? - step 12 cop out. It is part of the tradition on public relations policy (let our friends reccomend us). It is not part of our recovery program which tells us to carry the message to the alcholic, not wait for him or her to somehow be magically attracted to us.

"Thanks for clarifying this. It gets confusing when I go to other meetings and they don't practice it this way. LOL navel gazing, I'd never heard that expression before. I love your last sentence and am going to write it down in my big book because its so true. "

It is probably more efficient and takes less time to do an annual step 4 and 5, as opposed to an issue by issue step 10/11. But the price is living with a growing ppile of unresolved issues until step time comes around again. I'd rather not have the discomfort.

"YES that is what I was taught, too, and that's what I thought. I think the other meetings were just confusing me. My sponsor even thinks I was so out of sorts these last couple of weeks because of--and not in spite of--going to all these new meetings. "

That seems to be your experience now, rather than something you were taught in the acedemic sense.

"No. I need more guidance in living in 10, 11, and 12 and processing what I am learning. I don't need to do another 4th step if I'm doing a 10th step. I need to work harder at not letting my crushed ego rebuild. Or I need to figure out if I "missed something" in my work."

Perfection is not the goal. If you missed something, you will be brought back to it. No big deal.

More from the book: " What used to be the hunch or the occasional inspiration gradually becomes a working part of the mind. Being still inexperienced and having just made conscious contact with God, it is not probable that we are going to be inspired at all times. We might pay for this presumption in all sorts of absurd actions and ideas. Nevertheless, we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it.

We usually conclude the period of meditation with a prayer that we be shown all through the day what our next step is to be, that we be given whatever we need to take care of such problems. We ask especially for freedom from self-will, and are careful to make no request for ourselves only. We may ask for ourselves, however, if others will be helped. We are careful never to pray for our own selfish ends. Many of us have wasted a lot of time doing that and it doesn't work. You can easily see why.

If circumstances warrant, we ask our wives or friends to join us in morning meditation. If we belong to a religious denomination which requires a definite morning devotion, we attend to that also. If not members of religious bodies, we sometimes select and memorize a few set prayers which emphasize the principles we have been discussing. There are many helpful books also. Suggestions about these may be obtained from one's priest, minister, or rabbi. Be quick to see where religious people are right. Make use of what they offer.

As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action. "



"I don't think so, either, but I needed to hear from others because it was all getting confusing. I remember asking a group leader at another AA meeting I liked if she'd be my Step 10, 11, and 12 sponsor. She said no, that I had to rework the steps with her, the way her group does it. I don't get it. I don't need to rework the steps.

I need a sponsor to help me get in the mode of living in 10, 11 and 12.

I was pushed out of the nest too soon.

Thanks, Mike.