DoubleBarrel

You don't like the negative vibe, I should remind you this is a recovery site, and you are discussing returning to drinking.

The battle is all yours to have, but what do you expect us to say?

mpr

I understand many saying don't drink, that's a given. I don't mind hearing that at all.

Negative vibe is saying I have already decided I'm drinking, I lied how I felt on day 1, stuff like that is just silly.

I like helping people, not isolating them. I came here for help. Help me with your advice best you can but no need to put people down and imply things. Not everyone who posted did this, most did not at all actually but we have a few bone heads here I think. That is okay though I won't hold it against them.

Tbh I almost regret making this thread.

mpr

I don't understand your banter either. Please explain how I lied on day 1, thanks!

bluehour

Hey mpr, after reading through this I just wanted to add my main thought.
Making ourselves drink in moderation is simply no fun. It's self defeating. When I drink moderately, it is all I think about while I'm doing it. I am constantly analyzing - who is around me, what they think of me, if I said something silly because I am a little buzzed, am I buzzed enough, should I have one more, I shouldn't even have had one, etc. Then, later, it's - when is the next time I can just have one, should I stop at the store since I haven't had even one in so long, is my husband getting worried again and on and on. And this is while I am *successfully* moderating.
It's pointless because the whole idea is to loosen up a little, and all it does is make me hyper aware. I think that's why the inevitable binge happens at some point, maybe in a week or maybe in a year, because moderating is so tiring and annoying.
And that binge could be the catalyst for something horrible to happen to us, or by us.
It's really not worth it. Alcohol simply doesn't taste THAT good, or have enough health benefits to justify all of this negative stuff.

Soberwolf

I never once said you lied i said decribe your day 1 sober be truly honest thats not me saying your lying thats me saying remember your day 1 try to remember why your doing this but as you said its was fine done some cardio etc .... cool

i havnt put you down once ive said your wrong that aint a put down thats a opinion

calling people boneheads now i dont remember calling you a name

isolating you arnt you trying to do that by saying not everyone done this just some bonreheads er pot kettle

your 7 years sober im 14 months i get called a bonehead by someone with 7 years

says it all

Dee74

Whenever someone contemplates returning to drinking it's an emotive issue for most of us.

This speaks to the heart of why most of us are here.

I think it's possible to discuss this without insults and name calling tho.




If it proves not to be possible, I will have to close the thread.

Thank you all for your co-operation.

Dee
Moderator
SR

DoubleDragons

What is so great about drinking alcohol (literally) that makes it worth debating whether moderation is possible for you on a seven page thread?? I have given up a myriad of things that were bad for me (Diet Cokes, red meat, scary movies, etc.) and never once gave even minutes of thought or debate as to adding these things back into my life, even though they had brought me a certain level of pleasure. Simply not worth my time. Logically, doesn't it scare you how much alcohol has control of your thoughts already without even adding it back in again??? Addiction. You have conquered it. Move on.

legna

There is one more thing I had to say that didn't make my last post. You'll understand immediately why I didn't include it. I don't know about the above. I know it's heresy. I do. I've decided that I'm going to say it anyway.

I am a recovered alcoholic. Twenty-two years sober. Happy, joyous and free. What I did not say in my last post is this: yes, I think I could drink again and in moderation. I believe that alcohol is but a symptom of my disease. Furthermore, I believe that the root causes have been addressed and healed.

I have a serious physical disease right now that prevents me from enjoying the warm weather. Twenty minutes outside in 91 degree weather landed me in ICU a couple of weeks ago. The problem is not the heat. The problem is nerve conduction. If the invisible nerve conduction problem was solved, the heat would no longer be a problem. Same thing with alcohol.

There is a line in the bible that begins, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." I believe that such faith shows up right about the time you realize the mountain is just where it needs to be.

And so, yeah, I do think that I've recovered and even could drink moderately. But every single reason that makes the idea sound good is gone.

"...only a little." pg 164

mpr

I apologize. You did not use correct punctuation and I read it incorrect.

I thought you had read my 7 year thread and implied I had lied about day 1 truly felt.

Like I did quote in my previous reply day 1 felt just like that.

In regard to boneheads I didn't mean any one person in specific, more of a generalization but I will refrain from calling names. I will simply ignore certain comments.

This is a touchy topic and it can get heated. From newly sober, seasoned vets, been there done that crowd, we all have our own outlook and at times a bias. A bias is even necessary because admitting a possibility of something being doable for one can seriously hinder your own sobriety.

I'm just looking for help like everybody else, just a little different than the conventional kind asked for. I hope people understand this.

Itchy

I liked that legna. But I'll add to that.

I have a few days shy of four years sober. I am recovered. That does not mean I can have one drink without starting the whole thing over, and doesn't mean I can or can't drink moderately.

I liked alcohol when it was voluntary, not so much when it became mandatory.

I quit because I don't like being addicted and out of control. I quit. I wasn't forced nor had liver or other issues other than severe withdrawals every morning requiring shots in my coffee to just be functional not drunk. But I was sick of being sick daily.

I'm free and this is the important part. I drank my fill, period. I don't need to run away, or self medicate. The addiction slipped up on me. And as we all know, when we finally realize we are alcoholics, it is too late to be able just stop easily. Or even safely.

I don't mess around with the mental masturbation of can I, could I?

Look I quit because I can't stand being out of control. But I do not want to drink, even if God came down and she told me, "You've been good, I remove all bad consequences of drinking from you. You may now drink with no illness, no hangovers, no problems.

I'd just say thanks, but no thanks. No dramatics, no blame, and no dreaming of drinking or constantly thinking about alcohol drinking or abstinence.

Let me be clear, I quit for clarity. I am not resisting anything. I'm not in neutral missing the exciting lense to dull dark drunken nights.

Drinking is dull. Especially when I'm an observer.

See I'm a non-drinker, not a drinker on hiatus, just waiting until I'm reted enough to go back to drinking.

I don't live wishing I could drink. Because I can drink anytime I want to. There is my SH's scotch five feet from me now in a cabinet. No, not once did my mind fantasize or wonder if I could have just one. Because I deep down to my toes detest alcohol for me. I don't like the feelings it gives me. I don't miss it as many seem to. I am not going to relapse because I'm recovered. And that almost always prompts someone to project their fears and experiences on me and call that pride or over confidence.

I won't be constrained by the constraints chosen by another to replace the drama of the drunk.

I'm not. I won't not can't anything by choice. I can not must because those are choices too.

All that should have been read as stated quietly and with assured conviction. It is not up for debate, as mine is not yours nor should it be.

If any decide to drink again I honestly don't care beyond a short prayer for them. I certainly would not tolerate anti drinking foolishness from ex drinkers and the pious when I was drinking. I'd throw them out on their ear. Drinking was my bad self-indulgence until it became a need.

I have seen my needs and I have met them. I only wanted, when I found myself wanting.

desypete

i would say if your unconvinced about what the booze will do to you then please carry on drinking until you finaly see if your an alcohilc or not

all i know is for me i stayed stopped for 15 years and i thought i would be ok if i drank again and for a short while i was convinced i didnt have a drink problem as i could drink a few pints and go home
however i was putting in real mental effort to make sure i didnt get drunk

in shorts after 8 years of drinking since picking up that first drink i ended up a 24 / 7 drunk who lost everything i had
my kids were removed from my care as i was unfit through drink, i lost my business as i got a drink drive ban and as i am a truck driver that was the end of my income
i lost all my money as i sat at home feeling sorry for myself and drinking and always going to do something about it all but tomorrow

i ended up going to prison at 40 years of age as i was getting arrested so much for my drunken brawls
i was a hopeless 24 7 drunk all because i wanted to see if just taking one drink would damage me
like i said for a short while it seemed to work but 8 years on i lost it all

today after being sober now for 10 years i dont need anymore convincing and its this being convinced that is the key

so if your not convinced then nothing i will say will matter as you will not listen and you will think your different and who knows you might be ?

all i know is if i had only listened to the aa guys who told me many many years before what would happen to alcoholics who carry on drinking i could of avioded what happend to me
i didnt listen i went my own way and i paid the price like so many of us who are alcolics will have done

legna

Conversations such as the one we are having here, are often framed this way (mental masturbation). I have no issue with the terminology, I understand the comparison, and I certainly take no offense to the phrase...but I look at it differently.

My goal, which is personal and therefore probably different than anyone else's goal, is to understand myself to the extent that understanding oneself is possible. Buddha-type understanding. To that end, I spend a great deal of time in meditation and self-examination. It is this endeavor that has led to my success in sobriety. Whether it be analyzing the beast or a fearless and thorough inventory - dig through the lies, the self-deception, the programming. Most of all, don't be afraid to look. No matter what it is.

And so, this type of question is actually important to my recovery (the way I work my recovery) because I learn something about myself when I ask it, when I answer it, when I examine the feelings that I have when I ask it, etc.

Exactly. In fact, I wish I had said this.

MarathonMan

Itchy - that was deep.......and the conviction I'd love to have one day.

mpr

Some nice posts guys. To those who shared, thank you. Your experiences have been acknowledged by myself and many others I am sure. We can always learn from others no matter what decision we ourselves make.

I am no closer to any side of the fence as when I started this thread. Its a straight up toss up. I don't know about many of you but when I am torn between two possibilities I usually do nothing, I just sit idle and wait until the right choice dawns on me. I will wait and see what happens.

We can keep this thread going if the posts continue or it will die, I am fine with either one. I don't think a clear cut answer can even be provided to my original question. The most likely outcome can be outlined and we all know exactly what that is.

In the meantime does anybody have direct experience, stories, or just thought on addictive personality disorder? I have been reading up on it a bit but would like to hear something real if anybody would like to share.

Who knows I could be a crazy ocd, alcoholic, addictive personality and ten more "labels". Makes me question how well do we really know ourselves?

Itchy

Legna,
Perhaps the addiction prompted your decision not to live an unexamined life? And perhaps you are younger than me. I indeed would be engaging in a substitute for real introspection were I trying to have my cake and eat it too.

I am 62, and studied the great religions and philosophies at an early age, reading the great minds on my own, not under duress from a tutor or instructor. It gave me an appreciation for how gloriously insignificant I was and am. Regardless of my capital balances or lack thereof, my inner capital is a working capital. Its balances ever increasing or decreasing in rational relationship to my courage in the face of living through a peak of human history and abundance never seen before in this world. Tools or trials, we always choose and live the consequences of our choices. If we don't like them then we need to make new choices.

If we stab ourselves in the leg and don't like the blood, it seems inconceivable to some of them that they can simply stop stabbing themselves.

I have no problem with examining our own experiences with it. I do get disappointed when it is all about glamorizing the addiction. For me it has provided insight that those I judged before met me at the door to the rooms. I am glad for the experience, and the humility it taught me. So when one wants to stay sober I am there for them. If they want to drink I'll wish them luck and see if the next person needed my support.

I did my self examinations long ago. My alcoholism was no one's fault but mine. No one saved me, just closed ranks with me, and helped with the rough patches.

I don't know if there is something past our existence here. And don't think my belief or not matters. I can't take part in the fear and hatred I see in the undercurrent of the pretentiously pious.

I only know I drank for self indulgent pleasure and paid a price too high, until I decided to, and stopped incurring the debt.

I participate here for the reinforcements, both given and taken. And take what I can use, and leave the rest. But I am late for a date with my dreams.

Night all.

Dee74

I actually think you've gotten several great answers to your initial question..

Plenty of great input in the many pages of this thread

I've read your original thread for many years and I have to admit I often wondered what else is this guy doing for his recovery?

I'm not challenging you - only you can decide if you've really worked at recovery as distinct from simply not drinking.

But I know for myself, if I ever get the idea that a drink might be the answer to any given problem, I need to look harder, cos I know what drinking did to me.

The real gift of recovery for me was not stopping drinking - it was realising what life and I could be without drinking, and a little self - improvement.

You might like the idea of kicking back with a scotch, I've tried it enough to know thats just not the way I drink.

Maybe that's where the breakdown in communication is happening here.

You could drink and find out for yourself, or you could decide to solve your 'missing piece of the puzzle' life conundrum in other healthier ways.

I really hope you go for Door #2 mpr

D

mpr

Yes I have received some great answers and life experience from many people no doubt. I definitely appreciate people taking the time to reply.

I've got to say I didn't really do anything for recovery persay. I basically identified a problem and put a end to that, read up a bunch online, but really just kept busy and started living life sober, enjoying things I never did before.

I never could identify with most stereotypical alcoholics, ones I knew of, read about etc.. I just identified we share a common problem. To be honest alcohol rarely ever entered my mind in all these years, a month or two into my sobriety I went to party's etc.. around friends who were drinking and never felt compelled to partake, just got bored really. As little as a few months ago I've been around similar scenario, I'll shoot the **** a bit, chit chat and than call it a night head home, again no craving. If anything I think what they are doing is silly, mostly do to the excess involved.

I am attempting to find the missing piece of the puzzle like you said. So far in years past I never gave my own addictive personality the credit it deserves, not saying it is the sole reason of my problems but it may play a larger role than I knew.

I appreciate the reply and I will keep searching, not sure what I am looking for but I am looking. I can't say I wont try a drink to see what happens but if I do I will have to own that along with the consequences, good or bad.

gracetuesday

One quote I thought of yesterday - from Robin Williams (am sure this is not exactly verbatim) - "for an alcoholic - thinking you can drink again - is like standing on top of a skyscraper saying "I can fly!"......

Problem is, you don't know if you can, or if you can't till it's too late....

Anyway, MPR, best wishes to you whatever you decide to do!

mpr

Thanks for the reply and RW had his own struggles as well, no different than us.

I can say I wont be drinking(or posting) until late sunday as I am going away for a couple days. Maybe some time away will clear my head a bit, you never know.

FeelingGreat

This is the essence of the problem you face. You don't know if you can or not, and that on it's own is a risk. Will you eventually ramp up to previous levels of drinking? There are plenty here for whom one drink will lead to instant relapse; I understand you don't think you're part of that group, but you might be more like me who started slowly but ended up worse than ever.

Only you can decide whether the risk's worth taking.