7yrs sober, moderate drinking?
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
I've been reading this thread with more than a little interest, mpr. What's scary to me is how thoughtful and optimistic you seem to be in a decision you've clearly already made, but have not yet acted on.
You've laid out the facts: You never drank more than five drinks. You were very young when you stopped, ostensibly because you thought your drinking might lead to trouble. Your curiosity would have been better served had you attempted to moderate, rather than just stop when you were younger, leaving you without your current dilemma. You're an older, more mature person who's stayed sober for seven years and more or less made responsible decisions in your life. Being a smart person, you'll quickly identify signs of trouble and then make the appropriate modifications, such as stopping again, before things get out of hand, very much as you did when you were younger.
The unacceptable discomfort that comes with holding two opposing thoughts or feelings in our minds, 'cognitive dissonance', requires either action in order to ease the discomfort, or a sleight of mind in order to mitigate the contradictions. This process is common to all of us, but often leads to unwanted consequences. There is, in your comments, also the phenomenon of 'overconfidence'; in your case, the idea that because you once did something with relative ease, that you will again be able to do so with little or no blood on your hands or fissures in your heart.
All your thoughts support your theory, an apparent work-in-progress, but easy to anticipate from your comments.
You've pretty much laid out most of my thinking when, after twenty five years without a drink, I decided that it was a good idea for me to wind down and enjoy the occasional drink, in part because I'd accumulated so much knowledge about myself and my drinking over those years, that I could stop as seemingly easily as I did the first time around. Only in retrospect did it seem that it was easy for me to stop that first time, though there is some truth to that sentiment.
My drinking was very different from what you describe, and it was a huge relief for me to just stop, given how my life was falling apart. I drank mostly beer when I was younger, with occasional shots, bottles of wine, cognac and the rest of it the many times I went out. I was working as a bartender, so drinking shots with customers was part of my job description; it was a very different time.
I don't believe, as per your comment, that the desire to drink "socially" or moderately is the result of "optimistic" alcoholic thinking. For many of us, this desire is based almost completely on our fear (and our abiding reluctance) to stop drinking and, in my case, living the fantasy life that heavy drinking afforded me. Adding or subtracting drinking is not the same as adding or subtracting a simple activity to my already full life; it's a decision to sacrifice myself and my life for the dubious and fading benefits of something that was clearly capable of destroying all that was good in my life.
I was at first fine drinking in a leisurely manner. My early "success" caused me to believe that I was then different than I was when I first quit, and that I could now "drink like a gentlemen," my own private fantasy. After a few months, I was buying large jugs of vodka pretty much every day, and drinking all night until I passed out. And then 'round the clock. Nothing was more important than drinking. During my three-year relapse, I again lost everything and everyone dear to me in life. It all seemed to happen very quickly, yet I'm certain that I'd planned drinking years before I actually picked up. (What happened? I thought I could stop once I saw I was out of control? Being "out of control," for me, meant I was incapable of taking the appropriate actions to save myself and, at some point, I no longer cared.)
I was fired a few times because of my drinking, went from one flop house to the next, stopped eating to spend the little money I had for alcohol, and went hungry for the same reasons. My health was in the gutter, and a few trips to the ER were not persuasive enough to get me to stop. I was unemployable, penniless, virtually homeless, and my family would have nothing to do with me until and unless I got sober.
Little more than three years "back" from my relapse, I now suffer from 'hindsight bias', the fact that everything I did up to and during my relapse makes so much sense, that I must have known it all along. Yet if this process had been nothing more than mind over matter, how could I have possibly ended up where I did?
Your comments and thinking about all this are laid out very nicely, have the added appearance of an honest appraisal of where you now are in life, and seem to be the products of a sane and sober mind. I think, for me, that's what's so scary. Perhaps equally as frightening as your measured and thoughtful analyses is this:
Your comment gives the appearance that dropping bad habits is a simple thing. The approximately thirteen-billion-dollar self-help industry tells a different story, and that doesn't even include free self-help programs. The only time I had trouble with bad habits was when I realized I had them. By definition, habits don't simply leave us by a conclusion of the mind that accrues from thoughtful analyses.
I don't see the day that I will again romance the drink and all that I'm missing by not having the occasional drink, or that picking up a drink will alleviate my boredom or any other conscious state without dire consequences. But then, I've been wrong before.
You've laid out the facts: You never drank more than five drinks. You were very young when you stopped, ostensibly because you thought your drinking might lead to trouble. Your curiosity would have been better served had you attempted to moderate, rather than just stop when you were younger, leaving you without your current dilemma. You're an older, more mature person who's stayed sober for seven years and more or less made responsible decisions in your life. Being a smart person, you'll quickly identify signs of trouble and then make the appropriate modifications, such as stopping again, before things get out of hand, very much as you did when you were younger.
The unacceptable discomfort that comes with holding two opposing thoughts or feelings in our minds, 'cognitive dissonance', requires either action in order to ease the discomfort, or a sleight of mind in order to mitigate the contradictions. This process is common to all of us, but often leads to unwanted consequences. There is, in your comments, also the phenomenon of 'overconfidence'; in your case, the idea that because you once did something with relative ease, that you will again be able to do so with little or no blood on your hands or fissures in your heart.
All your thoughts support your theory, an apparent work-in-progress, but easy to anticipate from your comments.
You've pretty much laid out most of my thinking when, after twenty five years without a drink, I decided that it was a good idea for me to wind down and enjoy the occasional drink, in part because I'd accumulated so much knowledge about myself and my drinking over those years, that I could stop as seemingly easily as I did the first time around. Only in retrospect did it seem that it was easy for me to stop that first time, though there is some truth to that sentiment.
My drinking was very different from what you describe, and it was a huge relief for me to just stop, given how my life was falling apart. I drank mostly beer when I was younger, with occasional shots, bottles of wine, cognac and the rest of it the many times I went out. I was working as a bartender, so drinking shots with customers was part of my job description; it was a very different time.
I don't believe, as per your comment, that the desire to drink "socially" or moderately is the result of "optimistic" alcoholic thinking. For many of us, this desire is based almost completely on our fear (and our abiding reluctance) to stop drinking and, in my case, living the fantasy life that heavy drinking afforded me. Adding or subtracting drinking is not the same as adding or subtracting a simple activity to my already full life; it's a decision to sacrifice myself and my life for the dubious and fading benefits of something that was clearly capable of destroying all that was good in my life.
I was at first fine drinking in a leisurely manner. My early "success" caused me to believe that I was then different than I was when I first quit, and that I could now "drink like a gentlemen," my own private fantasy. After a few months, I was buying large jugs of vodka pretty much every day, and drinking all night until I passed out. And then 'round the clock. Nothing was more important than drinking. During my three-year relapse, I again lost everything and everyone dear to me in life. It all seemed to happen very quickly, yet I'm certain that I'd planned drinking years before I actually picked up. (What happened? I thought I could stop once I saw I was out of control? Being "out of control," for me, meant I was incapable of taking the appropriate actions to save myself and, at some point, I no longer cared.)
I was fired a few times because of my drinking, went from one flop house to the next, stopped eating to spend the little money I had for alcohol, and went hungry for the same reasons. My health was in the gutter, and a few trips to the ER were not persuasive enough to get me to stop. I was unemployable, penniless, virtually homeless, and my family would have nothing to do with me until and unless I got sober.
Little more than three years "back" from my relapse, I now suffer from 'hindsight bias', the fact that everything I did up to and during my relapse makes so much sense, that I must have known it all along. Yet if this process had been nothing more than mind over matter, how could I have possibly ended up where I did?
Your comments and thinking about all this are laid out very nicely, have the added appearance of an honest appraisal of where you now are in life, and seem to be the products of a sane and sober mind. I think, for me, that's what's so scary. Perhaps equally as frightening as your measured and thoughtful analyses is this:
I would say 95% if I tried alcohol and saw old symptoms I would drop it like a bad habit. The chance of spiraling downhill I would say is slim.
I don't see the day that I will again romance the drink and all that I'm missing by not having the occasional drink, or that picking up a drink will alleviate my boredom or any other conscious state without dire consequences. But then, I've been wrong before.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
mmmm...i'm reading your tagline.
so...now it's negotiation time after all.
the very thing that allowed you to mature and get to where you're now at is what you're going to be throwing away..
it reminds me of the times i quit for just a little while, which then proved to me that see!?! i can quit anytime, no problem, sp therefore i can now drink again because i can quit again...the circular insanity was staggering and i was blind to it.
so...now it's negotiation time after all.
the very thing that allowed you to mature and get to where you're now at is what you're going to be throwing away..
it reminds me of the times i quit for just a little while, which then proved to me that see!?! i can quit anytime, no problem, sp therefore i can now drink again because i can quit again...the circular insanity was staggering and i was blind to it.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 611
Hi mpr, I hope you change your mind on starting to drink again....there is so much romancesising in your thinking, the kicking back with a scotch and the odd beer while travelling. For someone who is not addicted it feels like a lot of effort is going into convincing yourself that to take that first drink is the next logical step.....after 7 years if it aint broke don't fix it.
I had 2.5 years sober and I got a few months of only at a weekend and then a few months of most nights but only a few beers.....i ended up back where I started leaving a trail of crushed dreams behind me.
I'll prey for you, don't end up being me and back on day 9.....every reason you gave in this thread I gave myself the same ones....im only 28 so was only 23 when I quit the first time, so i'm young like you, you made the right choice the first time.
I had 2.5 years sober and I got a few months of only at a weekend and then a few months of most nights but only a few beers.....i ended up back where I started leaving a trail of crushed dreams behind me.
I'll prey for you, don't end up being me and back on day 9.....every reason you gave in this thread I gave myself the same ones....im only 28 so was only 23 when I quit the first time, so i'm young like you, you made the right choice the first time.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Endgame's comments are what I was striving to articulate in post #54. From what you have stated and agreed to I believe you are playing with fire. Your addictions have largely been left untreated - growing stronger over the sober period based on what you relate to. So it stands to reason that when you shift addictions from perhaps exercise or work to drinking again it should come as no surprise that it will take on a new life of its own that you are unaware of. This can create dramatically different psychological events making it much more difficult to control (what you aim to achieve) and stop.
In short you are making a decision based on old experiences, which may not be what your new experience will be like at all.
In my opinion this is exactly how relapses occur with those with much sober time. The results are not good either.
In short you are making a decision based on old experiences, which may not be what your new experience will be like at all.
In my opinion this is exactly how relapses occur with those with much sober time. The results are not good either.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 809
Here is a true story directly from the textbook of Alcoholics Anonymous. I recommend you read this and ask yourself the question - is it really worth it?
A man of thirty was doing a great deal of spree drinking. He was very nervous in the morning after these bouts and quieted himself with more liquor. He was ambitious to succeed in business, but saw that he would get nowhere if he drank at all. Once he started, he had no control whatever. He made up his mind that until he had been successfull in business and had retired, he would not touch another drop. An exceptional man, he remained bone dry for 26 years and retired at the age of 55 after a successful and happy business career. Then he fell victim to a belief which practically every alcoholic has - that his long period of sobriety and self discipline had qualified him to drink as other men. Out came his carpet slippers and a bottle. In two months he was in a hospital, puzzled and humiliated. He tried to regulate his drinking for a while, making several trips to the hospital meantime. Then, gathering all his forces, he attempted to stop altogether and found he could not. Every means of solving his problem which money could buy was at his disposal. Every attempt failed. Though a robust man at retirement, he went to pieces quickly and was dead within four years.
This case contains a powerful lesson. Most of us have believed that if we remained sober for a long stretch, we could thereafter drink normally. But here is a man who at 55 years found he was just where he had left off at thirty. We have seen the truth demonstrated again and again. "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." Commencing to drink after a period of sobriety, we are in short time as bad as ever.
This is a chronic, progressive, and fatal disease. If you are indeed an alcoholic, and nobody can diagnose you but yourself, you are playing with your life right now.
if you are not an alcoholic - why do you suddenly need to drink to be OK with life? Why can't you leave it alone?
Just my thoughts. Best of luck.
A man of thirty was doing a great deal of spree drinking. He was very nervous in the morning after these bouts and quieted himself with more liquor. He was ambitious to succeed in business, but saw that he would get nowhere if he drank at all. Once he started, he had no control whatever. He made up his mind that until he had been successfull in business and had retired, he would not touch another drop. An exceptional man, he remained bone dry for 26 years and retired at the age of 55 after a successful and happy business career. Then he fell victim to a belief which practically every alcoholic has - that his long period of sobriety and self discipline had qualified him to drink as other men. Out came his carpet slippers and a bottle. In two months he was in a hospital, puzzled and humiliated. He tried to regulate his drinking for a while, making several trips to the hospital meantime. Then, gathering all his forces, he attempted to stop altogether and found he could not. Every means of solving his problem which money could buy was at his disposal. Every attempt failed. Though a robust man at retirement, he went to pieces quickly and was dead within four years.
This case contains a powerful lesson. Most of us have believed that if we remained sober for a long stretch, we could thereafter drink normally. But here is a man who at 55 years found he was just where he had left off at thirty. We have seen the truth demonstrated again and again. "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." Commencing to drink after a period of sobriety, we are in short time as bad as ever.
This is a chronic, progressive, and fatal disease. If you are indeed an alcoholic, and nobody can diagnose you but yourself, you are playing with your life right now.
if you are not an alcoholic - why do you suddenly need to drink to be OK with life? Why can't you leave it alone?
Just my thoughts. Best of luck.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 705
I had a glass of wine after several years sobriety and discovered that alcohol had turned on me somehow. I felt weird in a bad way...very quickly ill, hated how I felt. And I used to LOVE a glass of wine. I literally couldn't wait until the feeling wore off. And that was the final nail in the alcohol coffin.
This is not advise to drink, just my personal experience. I think you should pass it by.
This is not advise to drink, just my personal experience. I think you should pass it by.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Another thought I just got, mpr. Don't know what is your profession or how you manage your life, but have you ever done any form of cost-benefit analysis? I'm asking in particular because you have a seemingly very rational and analytical approach to this "to dink or not to drink" question. I've been quite a risk taker in many areas of my life and do a lot of these types of "analyses" in my job and personal life. It's often tricky though, because we can use apparently objective tools and thought processes for it, but often we already start to investigate with an unconscious decision (like others have pointed out above).
In any case, just no matter how I look at your dilemma, there is a very clear and enormous imbalance between the potential cost (what a relapse into addiction could cost you) and any apparent, anticipated benefit (having a few "nice drinks" occasionally). I am just close to 8 months sober so very far from your time, and frankly I consider myself a reasonable and not particularly immature person (when sober). But all these stories simply just on SR could not make it more obvious to me that the risk (which is always uncertain of course) is not worth any potential benefit alcohol could ever give me. It's not even a dilemma because the "equation" could not be any clearer.
Again, as I said I've taken many risks in my life in all sorts of ways so I am definitely not fearful by default when it comes to this. It's just crystal clear in my mind what I would be gambling with. Maybe not the best game theory
In any case, just no matter how I look at your dilemma, there is a very clear and enormous imbalance between the potential cost (what a relapse into addiction could cost you) and any apparent, anticipated benefit (having a few "nice drinks" occasionally). I am just close to 8 months sober so very far from your time, and frankly I consider myself a reasonable and not particularly immature person (when sober). But all these stories simply just on SR could not make it more obvious to me that the risk (which is always uncertain of course) is not worth any potential benefit alcohol could ever give me. It's not even a dilemma because the "equation" could not be any clearer.
Again, as I said I've taken many risks in my life in all sorts of ways so I am definitely not fearful by default when it comes to this. It's just crystal clear in my mind what I would be gambling with. Maybe not the best game theory
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Down South, USA
Posts: 173
I can say that I was sober for many years; and I also tried this experiment. Honestly, I never really wanted to moderate - I just wanted to drink again. I justified that I had been so young when I first quit, that maybe now I was older and more mature; it would be ok.
The problem is - my body reacts differently than normal folks. After one drink, I want MORE - until I am passed out. So, it really made no difference that I THOUGHT I wouldn't want MORE - I did.... And, once I had started drinking, I NEVER said "hey, I think I'll stop now!"
I agree with others that this is risky at best... But, as you know, no one can decide for you.
I can say this with certainty - in the last 12 years of my drinking - I have missed out on alot of life because I was drunk or too hungover to enjoy each day.
I would also be curious as to why you think drinking would solve the boredom problem? For me, it just made me lose chunks of time/days/weeks... Surely there is something else that interests you besides ingesting a poison that COULD possibly wreak havoc on your life. Travel/cooking/volunteering?
Whatever you decided to do, I wish you the best....
The problem is - my body reacts differently than normal folks. After one drink, I want MORE - until I am passed out. So, it really made no difference that I THOUGHT I wouldn't want MORE - I did.... And, once I had started drinking, I NEVER said "hey, I think I'll stop now!"
I agree with others that this is risky at best... But, as you know, no one can decide for you.
I can say this with certainty - in the last 12 years of my drinking - I have missed out on alot of life because I was drunk or too hungover to enjoy each day.
I would also be curious as to why you think drinking would solve the boredom problem? For me, it just made me lose chunks of time/days/weeks... Surely there is something else that interests you besides ingesting a poison that COULD possibly wreak havoc on your life. Travel/cooking/volunteering?
Whatever you decided to do, I wish you the best....
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,074
During my sobriety I've had this idea that alcohol is such a small thing, really. It's not a big deal. It isn't something anyone needs any more than they need, say, a bubble bath or a piece of chocolate. It's actually pretty easy to live without it. Here's the thing though, for some people, myself included, alcohol is actually a very big deal. A life changing thing. Life is actually much MORE difficult for me when I drink. I don't know about you but if by taking a bubble bath it meant I risked losing my family, my job, my health, my sanity... I'd just go ahead and skip it. What's the point? Is it really worth risking?
I think someone else mentioned doing a cost benefit analysis and I think that's a good idea. Please keep us posted. If you do decide to start drinking again I wish you the best
I think someone else mentioned doing a cost benefit analysis and I think that's a good idea. Please keep us posted. If you do decide to start drinking again I wish you the best
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 25,826
". . . really like the idea of kicking back, sipping a nice scotch or bourbon and listening to some music, or enjoying a drink while I watch a movie, just the odd thing like that"
I wanted to drink without the consequences of it and if that was possible many of us would probably still be drinking, or at least never have questioned it, but the reason why we had to part ways with alcohol was our aspirations were completely different from the facts!!
All I'm saying is be careful, we sometimes want to fit a square peg into a round hole, start off with the result we want to achieve and work our way backwards from that, rather than living within what is achievable and the reality we find ourselves in!!
Do your best
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Moderation Management - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia founder of MM (moderation) founded in 1994 the founder joined aa in 2000
in march 2003 Audrey kishline the founder of MM killed a father and his 12 year old daughter by drunk driving
driving the wrong way down a highway in a head on smash that killed a 12 year old girl
THIS IS THE FOUNDER
the big book says if you think your not alcoholic go to the nearest bar
i find it strange u cant kick back and relax to music i do that constantly sober love my music i do, the whole glass of whiskey idea is your alcoholism
something else is missing and ur retreating to alcohol and pls know it WILL abuse you physically mentally and emotionally
try to remember ur day 1 sober pls post truthfully about ur day 1 sober how was your mind and your health
how long did it take u to give up when u knew it was a problem
i really want u to be sober as i can learn from ur 7 years but tbh im learning now
really hope u dont drink ur better than that
in march 2003 Audrey kishline the founder of MM killed a father and his 12 year old daughter by drunk driving
driving the wrong way down a highway in a head on smash that killed a 12 year old girl
THIS IS THE FOUNDER
the big book says if you think your not alcoholic go to the nearest bar
i find it strange u cant kick back and relax to music i do that constantly sober love my music i do, the whole glass of whiskey idea is your alcoholism
something else is missing and ur retreating to alcohol and pls know it WILL abuse you physically mentally and emotionally
try to remember ur day 1 sober pls post truthfully about ur day 1 sober how was your mind and your health
how long did it take u to give up when u knew it was a problem
i really want u to be sober as i can learn from ur 7 years but tbh im learning now
really hope u dont drink ur better than that
Do your best
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
why areyou thinking about drink ?
not the music not the movie
why is it in your head if it aint a problem normal ppl dont think the way you are right now u do realise ur thinking alcoholically right now
problem drinkers are alcoholics and alcoholics are problem drinkers u can believe what you want but i know im speaking the truth
ur missing alcohol alcoholics miss alcohol
i could go on but i think ur decision is made
i really hope u dont drink to find out i know what will happen here its so obvious
sorry if i sound rude i just think with 7 years u should be a bit stronger in mind and not be thinking like this but your alcoholic so of course your going to think and feel like this have u not felt like this b4 never over 7 years ?
im alcoholic dont know what a true alcoholic is and suggests that your calling yourself sort of alcoholic
not the music not the movie
why is it in your head if it aint a problem normal ppl dont think the way you are right now u do realise ur thinking alcoholically right now
problem drinkers are alcoholics and alcoholics are problem drinkers u can believe what you want but i know im speaking the truth
ur missing alcohol alcoholics miss alcohol
i could go on but i think ur decision is made
i really hope u dont drink to find out i know what will happen here its so obvious
sorry if i sound rude i just think with 7 years u should be a bit stronger in mind and not be thinking like this but your alcoholic so of course your going to think and feel like this have u not felt like this b4 never over 7 years ?
im alcoholic dont know what a true alcoholic is and suggests that your calling yourself sort of alcoholic
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by LBrain 
this thread needs to be bumped every six months. who's got it?
This scares me to death. That in 7 years I may have the same thoughts.
I WILL NEVER CHANGE MY MIND.
This scares me to death. That in 7 years I may have the same thoughts.
I WILL NEVER CHANGE MY MIND.
Bump this and never leave SR for too long!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 177
I've also tried the moderation thing after stopping for a bit. It was ok for a couple days. I drank 3 beers and felt fine, then quickly escalated to binge drinking. Every day the amount would go up. I didn't even realize it happened until I woke up one day and felt like death and saw the empty bottles and cans all over the kitchen counter. I had a party by myself apparently.
After 7 years I personally wouldn't risk thinking it would be any different. Once you feel that buzz again you'll want it more and more.
After 7 years I personally wouldn't risk thinking it would be any different. Once you feel that buzz again you'll want it more and more.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 52
As a counselor in this area for many years (and a substance abuser for many years before that, I can share with you my experience and observations.
I cannot count the number of times I've heard almost exactly what you are saying here. In all of that time, I have not seen one person with the past behavior you have described successfully return to "socially" using alcohol in moderation.
Regardless of what label you self-attach to your prior drinking, the facts remain pretty much the same. It became a problem and you stopped doing it. Doesn't matter why or how or when.
To return to using any substance that somehow screwed with your life in the past is simply not rational or advisable. It is, however, a risk that's almost always not worth taking.
The voice in your head is telling you something that, on some level, you know is wrong. Please don't listen and take that risk. The odds of success are lousy.
I cannot count the number of times I've heard almost exactly what you are saying here. In all of that time, I have not seen one person with the past behavior you have described successfully return to "socially" using alcohol in moderation.
Regardless of what label you self-attach to your prior drinking, the facts remain pretty much the same. It became a problem and you stopped doing it. Doesn't matter why or how or when.
To return to using any substance that somehow screwed with your life in the past is simply not rational or advisable. It is, however, a risk that's almost always not worth taking.
The voice in your head is telling you something that, on some level, you know is wrong. Please don't listen and take that risk. The odds of success are lousy.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-day-quit.html
You know mpr, I got nothing for you from me except to offer you your own inspirational thread of the last seven years. If your own thread of seven years running isn't enough for you to do the correct math here, than you have somewhere and somehow sadly lost your foundational roots. You have every reason to continue your original quit, and no remarkable insight as-of-yet has been offered by you to not continue your amazing success.
You know mpr, I got nothing for you from me except to offer you your own inspirational thread of the last seven years. If your own thread of seven years running isn't enough for you to do the correct math here, than you have somewhere and somehow sadly lost your foundational roots. You have every reason to continue your original quit, and no remarkable insight as-of-yet has been offered by you to not continue your amazing success.
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