I Don't Think Alcoholism is Real
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Des Moines IA
Posts: 377
I may be one of the few you'll meet who will freely admit to being a bad person. From my very core I'm bad, and always have been from my earliest memories.
But I've not drank in a very long time, while continuing to be bad through and through. It seems that being bad had little to do with developing alcoholism, because very good people do that as easily as I, a bad 'un.
In fact, since by and large the good ones remain sober longterm in as small numbers as us baddies I've drawn the conclusion for myself that this condition has zero to do with our natural bents, or the artificial new leafs people turn over.
I like to look at solutions for this not in bad vs. good lights, but in terms of what works well for many, and what doesn't work well for many and seems to be based on weak and flimsy comfortable and preferable theories that soon enough collapse on themselves.
Just putting in a word for those in the bad crowd who may be under the false impression they need to get good to overcome what's killing them. Not so at all.
But I've not drank in a very long time, while continuing to be bad through and through. It seems that being bad had little to do with developing alcoholism, because very good people do that as easily as I, a bad 'un.
In fact, since by and large the good ones remain sober longterm in as small numbers as us baddies I've drawn the conclusion for myself that this condition has zero to do with our natural bents, or the artificial new leafs people turn over.
I like to look at solutions for this not in bad vs. good lights, but in terms of what works well for many, and what doesn't work well for many and seems to be based on weak and flimsy comfortable and preferable theories that soon enough collapse on themselves.
Just putting in a word for those in the bad crowd who may be under the false impression they need to get good to overcome what's killing them. Not so at all.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 929
Originally Posted by hamabi 
I may be one of the few you'll meet who will freely admit to being a bad person.
What you've just written is pretty much what the character Jesse exclaimed in season three in relation to his sobriety.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by hamabi
Just putting in a word for those in the bad crowd who may be under the false impression they need to get good to overcome what's killing them. Not so at all.
To stop a behavior that is killing you, you have to...well, somehow stop the behavior. Period. It's the "somehow" part that seems to twist up people's undies, because the "somehow" is different for us all.
People can sometimes be very defensive/protective of the manner in which we quit. I get that. Lots of us almost died.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1
Everyone is different. I quit cold turkey for a year and then went back to drinking. At first it was easy to have a couple beers and stop but my bingeing has worsened. They are longer and more frequent. So I'm going to quit again.
It's definitely real for me.
It's definitely real for me.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by hamabi
Just putting in a word for those in the bad crowd who may be under the false impression they need to get good to overcome what's killing them. Not so at all.
The conflict that may be set up within a person who is "bad", knows it is "bad" and doesn't WANT to be bad... well, that conflict is NOT gonna help the person quit drinking who drinks to forget that they have been "bad"...
I put bad in quotes, because that is a relative term, and bad for me may not be bad for someone else... And, BTW, Walter White is behaving very badly... LOL ...
If a person is acting "bad" and feels "good" about that... well, maybe they can stay happy and sober... and if acting "bad" is about hurting others, that person will need to stay away from me...
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Originally Posted by Xune
Have you been watching Breaking Bad?
What you've just written is pretty much what the character Jesse exclaimed in season three in relation to his sobriety.
What you've just written is pretty much what the character Jesse exclaimed in season three in relation to his sobriety.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Originally Posted by least
How about changing the words in Boleo's post a bit. To say it isn't a disease is to call the millions of alcoholics 'bad people', not to use the word 'sinners'. When I was drinking I wasn't a bad person, just a badly addicted person.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Des Moines IA
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by Xune
Have you been watching Breaking Bad?
What you've just written is pretty much what the character Jesse exclaimed in season three in relation to his sobriety.
What you've just written is pretty much what the character Jesse exclaimed in season three in relation to his sobriety.
Heard Dallas was fun, but in truth I'm glad it's not floating around in my head.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 81
Jason may be in a minority on this site, but that doesn't mean he has no right to share and shouldn't be here. Some people on this site are trying to understand the consequences of drugs and alcohol in their lives and aren't necessarily professed alcoholics or drug abusers.
Is it usually in your nature to shut out the minority?
I appreciate all the stories on this site whether they are tragic or hopeful. For me it's about relating to others and having compassion, which means attempting to understand suffering from different angles. That also might mean altering my point of view. Aren't we all here to change our way of thinking, since the way we were thinking wasn't working out for us before?
Telling someone they don't belong here creates a negative space and exclusive environment - I thought this site was open to the public.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is it usually in your nature to shut out the minority?
I appreciate all the stories on this site whether they are tragic or hopeful. For me it's about relating to others and having compassion, which means attempting to understand suffering from different angles. That also might mean altering my point of view. Aren't we all here to change our way of thinking, since the way we were thinking wasn't working out for us before?
Telling someone they don't belong here creates a negative space and exclusive environment - I thought this site was open to the public.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Recovered Alcoholic And Heroin
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 24
YOU MAY NOT BE AN ALCOHOLIC OF THE HOPELESS VARIETY!
Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up
liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They
can take it or leave it alone.
Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He
may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair
THERE IS A SOLUTION 21
him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die
a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason—
ill health, falling in love, change of environment,
or the warning of a doctor—becomes operative, this
man can also stop or moderate, although he may find
it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical
attention.
But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off
as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a
continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his
drinking career he begins to lose all control of his
liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially
in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible,
tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr.
Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated.
He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition
while drinking resembles his normal nature but
little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world.
Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes
disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has
a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong
moment, particularly when some important decision
must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly
sensible and well balanced concerning everything
except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly
dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities,
skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career
ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright
outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the
structure down on his head by a senseless series of
sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated
he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next
22 ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplaced
the night before. If he can afford it, he may have
liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no
one gets his entire supply away from him to throw
down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins
to use a combination of high-powered sedative
and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work.
Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it
and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a
doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with
which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals
and sanitariums.
This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the
true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this
description should identify him roughly.
Why does he behave like this? If hundreds of experiences
have shown him that one drink means another
debacle with all its attendant suffering and
humiliation, why is it he takes that one drink? Why
can’t he stay on the water wagon? What has become
of the common sense and will power that he still sometimes
displays with respect to other matters?
Perhaps there never will be a full answer to these
questions. Opinions vary considerably as to why the
alcoholic reacts differently from normal people. We
are not sure why, once a certain point is reached, little
can be done for him. We cannot answer the riddle.
We know that while the alcoholic keeps away from
drink, as he may do for months or years, he reacts
much like other men. We are equally positive that
once he takes any alcohol whatever into his system,
something happens, both in the bodily and mental
sense, which makes it virtually impossible for him to
THERE IS A SOLUTION 23
stop. The experience of any alcoholic will abundantly
confirm this.
These observations would be academic and pointless
if our friend never took the first drink, thereby
setting the terrible cycle in motion. Therefore, the
main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind,
rather than in his body. If you ask him why he started
on that last bender, the chances are he will offer you
any one of a hundred alibis. Sometimes these excuses
have a certain plausibility, but none of them really
makes sense in the light of the havoc an alcoholic’s
drinking bout creates. They sound like the philosophy
of the man who, having a headache, beats himself on
the head with a hammer so that he can’t feel the ache.
If you draw this fallacious reasoning to the attention
of an alcoholic, he will laugh it off, or become irritated
and refuse to talk.
Once in a while he may tell the truth. And the
truth, strange to say, is usually that he has no more
idea why he took that first drink than you have. Some
drinkers have excuses with which they are satisfied
part of the time. But in their hearts they really do not
know why they do it. Once this malady has a real
hold, they are a baffled lot. There is the obsession that
somehow, someday, they will beat the game. But they
often suspect they are down for the count.
How true this is, few realize. In a vague way their
families and friends sense that these drinkers are abnormal,
but everybody hopefully awaits the day when
the sufferer will rouse himself from his lethargy and
assert his power of will.
The tragic truth is that if the man be a real alcoholic,
the happy day may not arrive. He has lost
24 ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
control. At a certain point in the drinking of every
alcoholic, he passes into a state where the most powerful
desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail.
This tragic situation has already arrived in practically
every case long before it is suspected.
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure,
have lost the power of choice in drink. Our socalled
will power becomes practically nonexistent.
We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness
with sufficient force the memory of the suffering
and humiliation of even a week or a month ago.
We are without defense against the first drink.
The almost certain consequences that follow taking
Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up
liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They
can take it or leave it alone.
Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He
may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair
THERE IS A SOLUTION 21
him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die
a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason—
ill health, falling in love, change of environment,
or the warning of a doctor—becomes operative, this
man can also stop or moderate, although he may find
it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical
attention.
But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off
as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a
continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his
drinking career he begins to lose all control of his
liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially
in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible,
tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr.
Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated.
He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition
while drinking resembles his normal nature but
little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world.
Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes
disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has
a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong
moment, particularly when some important decision
must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly
sensible and well balanced concerning everything
except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly
dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities,
skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career
ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright
outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the
structure down on his head by a senseless series of
sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated
he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next
22 ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplaced
the night before. If he can afford it, he may have
liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no
one gets his entire supply away from him to throw
down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins
to use a combination of high-powered sedative
and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work.
Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it
and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a
doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with
which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals
and sanitariums.
This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the
true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this
description should identify him roughly.
Why does he behave like this? If hundreds of experiences
have shown him that one drink means another
debacle with all its attendant suffering and
humiliation, why is it he takes that one drink? Why
can’t he stay on the water wagon? What has become
of the common sense and will power that he still sometimes
displays with respect to other matters?
Perhaps there never will be a full answer to these
questions. Opinions vary considerably as to why the
alcoholic reacts differently from normal people. We
are not sure why, once a certain point is reached, little
can be done for him. We cannot answer the riddle.
We know that while the alcoholic keeps away from
drink, as he may do for months or years, he reacts
much like other men. We are equally positive that
once he takes any alcohol whatever into his system,
something happens, both in the bodily and mental
sense, which makes it virtually impossible for him to
THERE IS A SOLUTION 23
stop. The experience of any alcoholic will abundantly
confirm this.
These observations would be academic and pointless
if our friend never took the first drink, thereby
setting the terrible cycle in motion. Therefore, the
main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind,
rather than in his body. If you ask him why he started
on that last bender, the chances are he will offer you
any one of a hundred alibis. Sometimes these excuses
have a certain plausibility, but none of them really
makes sense in the light of the havoc an alcoholic’s
drinking bout creates. They sound like the philosophy
of the man who, having a headache, beats himself on
the head with a hammer so that he can’t feel the ache.
If you draw this fallacious reasoning to the attention
of an alcoholic, he will laugh it off, or become irritated
and refuse to talk.
Once in a while he may tell the truth. And the
truth, strange to say, is usually that he has no more
idea why he took that first drink than you have. Some
drinkers have excuses with which they are satisfied
part of the time. But in their hearts they really do not
know why they do it. Once this malady has a real
hold, they are a baffled lot. There is the obsession that
somehow, someday, they will beat the game. But they
often suspect they are down for the count.
How true this is, few realize. In a vague way their
families and friends sense that these drinkers are abnormal,
but everybody hopefully awaits the day when
the sufferer will rouse himself from his lethargy and
assert his power of will.
The tragic truth is that if the man be a real alcoholic,
the happy day may not arrive. He has lost
24 ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
control. At a certain point in the drinking of every
alcoholic, he passes into a state where the most powerful
desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail.
This tragic situation has already arrived in practically
every case long before it is suspected.
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure,
have lost the power of choice in drink. Our socalled
will power becomes practically nonexistent.
We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness
with sufficient force the memory of the suffering
and humiliation of even a week or a month ago.
We are without defense against the first drink.
The almost certain consequences that follow taking
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by Hopeworks
The third leading cause of death in the world! That is an absolutely crazy scary statistic that just came out a few weeks ago and it got no press. NONE. No one cared.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 929
Originally Posted by ThankGodForAA
YOU MAY NOT BE AN ALCOHOLIC OF THE HOPELESS VARIETY!
...what does that even mean?
If alcohol is a destructive force in your life, it's a problem. Dwelling one what kind of a drunk you are is pointless to the level of the absurd.
However a drunk stops drinking, if the end result is they're sober and have their life back...it's all good in my view.
"Good to meet you sir, I am a rather hopeful alcoholic."
' Hopeful you say?'
" Oh yes, quite hopeful indeed!"
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
