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I Don't Think Alcoholism is Real

Old 01-04-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Xune View Post
YOU MAY BE AN ALCOHOLIC OF THE HOPEFUL VARIETY!

...what does that even mean?
xune, im glad to see ya asking this question. tells me yer open minded.
how else are we gonna learn if we dont ask questions?
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:54 PM
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No surprise there...but it resulted in good discourse and brought a lot of solid ideas to light. (of OP )
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonL76 View Post
I am not in any way special, but if I can go from 10 years of getting drunk every day, to just deciding I don't want to do it and now consuming alcohol like a normal person, why can't everyone do that?



I don't believe in peanut allergies because I at a PB&J sandwich last week and didn't go into shock. People who claim to have peanut allergy should just go ahead and try to eat a snickers bar now and again.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Xune View Post
YOU MAY BE AN ALCOHOLIC OF THE HOPEFUL VARIETY!

...what does that even mean?

If alcohol is a destructive force in your life, it's a problem. Dwelling one what kind of a drunk you are is pointless to the level of the absurd.

However a drunk stops drinking, if the end result is they're sober and have their life back...it's all good in my view.

"Good to meet you sir, I am a rather hopeful alcoholic."

' Hopeful you say?'

" Oh yes, quite hopeful indeed!"
The first 4 chapters in the book Alcohol Anonymous are called the Conclusion chapters, during these chapters you come to the conclusion yourself , no one can tell you, that you are an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. Now hopeless means that you have no hope of one day regaining control of your drink or drug use on your own will power.
Alcoholics of the hopeless variety have no control of when and where they drink and once they start they cannot stop, STEP 1 is accepting this.
Another part of step 1 is that your life is unmanageable.
That could mean even with out the substances, you can be a miserable POS. or as others call it, DRY DRUNK.

They are restless,
irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience
the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by
taking a few drinks—drinks which they see others taking
with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire
again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving
develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a
spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to
drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this
person can experience an entire psychic change there is
very little hope of his recovery.

Well this kind of reminded me of someone!

Next he can be assured that you do not intend to
lecture, moralize, or condemn; that if this was done
formerly, it was because of misunderstanding. If possible
express a lack of hard feeling toward him. At
this point, it might be well to explain alcoholism, the
illness. Say that you believe he is a gravely ill person,
with this qualification—being perhaps fatally ill,
does he want to get well? You ask, because many
alcoholics, being warped and drugged, do not want to
quit. But does he? Will he take every necessary step,
submit to anything to get well, to stop drinking forever?
If he says yes, does he really mean it, or down inside
does he think he is fooling you, and that after rest and
treatment he will be able to get away with a few drinks
now and then? We believe a man should be thoroughly
probed on these points. Be satisfied he is not
deceiving himself or you.
Whether you mention this book is a matter for your
discretion. If he temporizes and still thinks he can
ever drink again, even beer, he might as well be discharged
after the next bender which, if an alcoholic,
he is almost certain to have. He should understand
that emphatically. Either you are dealing with a man
who can and will get well or you are not. If not, why
waste time with him? This may seem severe, but it is
usually the best course.
THANK GOD I AM OF THIS TYPE!

I NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD BROTHER!

Love you man!

Best wishes!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:57 PM
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Now and then a serious drinker, being dry at the
moment says, “I don’t miss it at all. Feel better. Work
better. Having a better time.” As ex-problem drink-
ers, we smile at such a sally. We know our friend is
like a boy whistling in the dark to keep up his spirits.
He fools himself. Inwardly he would give anything to
take half a dozen drinks and get away with them. He
will presently try the old game again, for he isn’t
happy about his sobriety. He cannot picture life without
alcohol. Some day he will be unable to imagine
life either with alcohol or without it. Then he will
know loneliness such as few do. He will be at the
jumping-off place. He will wish for the end.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:34 PM
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My relative who I love the most in my life was diagnosed with terminal cancer. There are no support groups, rehabs, sponsors, things that have worked for others that can make it go away. In living through this situation with her, it has made me value my sobriety even more. Not dismissing that alcoholism is insidious and horrible, but I have watched many people expire and lose their lives when they refuse the help that has been proven to offer a remedy- I've yet to find that for her illness. And if not for the gift of sobriety, I wouldn't be able to be there completely for this person like I am and will continue to be. I'm very grateful for SR and all of the wisdom and support I glean here...Thank you!
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:37 PM
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MY brother died in sobriety of cancer! I was there for him the whole way, he was on 17, died in sloan kettering in manhattan.
RIP joey


Originally Posted by sofie View Post
My relative who I love the most in my life was diagnosed with terminal cancer. There are no support groups, rehabs, sponsors, things that have worked for others that can make it go away. In living through this situation with her, it has made me value my sobriety even more. Not dismissing that alcoholism is insidious and horrible, but I have watched many people expire and lose their lives when they refuse the help that has been proven to offer a remedy- I've yet to find that for her illness. And if not for the gift of sobriety, I wouldn't be able to be there completely for this person like I am and will continue to be. I'm very grateful for SR and all of the wisdom and support I glean here...Thank you!
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:46 PM
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My thoughts are with you ThankGodForAA. I'm so glad you were there for Joey and glad you are here. SR has helped me so much- it is a blessing.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sofie View Post
My thoughts are with you ThankGodForAA. I'm so glad you were there for Joey and glad you are here. SR has helped me so much- it is a blessing.
Thank you! I was in sobriety, it was a typo, he actually never did drugs or alcohol, Thank you so much! This is why were here though, to change our reaction to life, I wouldnt of been there for him, or my family. Now I can only do my best to give my family the best son/brother they could of asked for!
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:10 PM
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Didn't read all the responses so this may have already been said.

As far as I'm concerned the OP is further proof that there is such a thing as alcoholism. And he/she (sorry, I don't remember), doesn't have it. There are people who can drink daily, develop a drinking habit, but then one day realize how it's affecting their lives, and just stop. Or drink normally. And it's not a problem. My wife was like that. She drank and did drugs on a regular basis for years, saw it was getting in the way of things, and stopped. Now if she has 5 drinks a year it's a lot, and I've only seen her drunk (buzzed would be more accurate) about 3 or 4 times in the 15 years we've been together.

Yes, as many have already stated, you're one of the lucky ones. And with the way you say you drank, you're one of the even luckier ones. Your experience is completely different that most of the people here. If it weren't, we all would have simply stopped drinking the way we did.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:26 PM
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Turned out to be a great thread. A lot of interesting perspectives have been shared. Thank-you everyone for participating.

I'll state again, I believe in the disease concept of alcoholism, and I found a solution to my malady through the steps of AA. I have attained a new way of life that is much more pleasant than anything I really experienced in the past. A life filled with love, tolerance, and service to others.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:31 PM
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I dunno' . . . I really don't care if "alcoholism is real" or not. I don't need a name for not being able to stop drinking against my will - to the point of collapsing my professional career, endangering my health, and challenging my closest relationships. I happen to agree with Bill W, that addiction of any kind is a spiritual, ummm . . . syndrome. And then, there's the latest neurological research regarding the compulsion to drink or use intoxicants against one's will. Maybe there's no such thing as depression, or schizophrenia, either. But it's pretty obvious that people think, behave, do, and also ingest intoxicants, with wildly differing results from one another. I'd be happy for the whole paradigm of addiction and treatment to be completely inaccurate. And I'm happy the OP didn't have to go through what I did. I wonder . . . does he have a clue why so many people destroy their lives, their families, their careers, and die (like, lots, every day) because they can't stop doing what they're doing? I'm not a big "ism" person; I'd really like a different take on whatever that is.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TheEnd View Post
I don't have an eating disorder or struggle with gambling, but you don't see me spouting my useless propaganda on their websites. So again, I am confused as to why you are here.
A high GPA or whatever doesn't make you any more or less prone to fill-in-your-drug-of-choice taking you down. Your juvenile drinking days sound very tame compared to mine and frankly, if I could 'brag' about drinking a bunch of beer back then I might not be where I am now.
Lucky you. What was a 'phase' for you is a life or death struggle for some of us now, every day.
I think it's called 'empathy' and clearly, you don't retain that quality and I feel sorry for you.
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:48 AM
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It sounds and looks like someone is in those very early days of self-actualization ;- )

Good luck. Keep exploring your thoughts on the topic, but always stay open to new ways of thinking.

Love yourself.

Cheers!
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:52 PM
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I am of the opinion that some of us (raises hand) have a genetic disposition making us more prone to addiction. Clearly I have it. Clearly you do not. If anything what you're saying supports the theory that some of us are predisposed.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:53 PM
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Have to say I'm impressed with the responses to this post. I have had some bad experiences with AA in the past, but this thread is surprisingly open minded and critical of many of the standard ways in which people think of alcoholism.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:27 AM
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I have also been thinking and wondering about Alcohol being a Disease. I don't know, i will leave that to the experts to define and categorise it. To me it is a Dependency. Just like Drugs, Food, Smoking etc. People use, to get them through difficult times in life like a security blanket, once they find they enjoy the feelings they get from a variety of things they ingest. It is their stress reliever so to speak.
I also think that most of these things destroy our health, but then so does our toxic environment. Its all a matter of degrees to me. I see Cancer is very high amongst Westernised populations too, not just in adults but in very young children also. Unheard of when i was growing up, so what has changed? It has to be environmental the way i see it. The food we eat, the air we breathe, the water we drink, all the toxins we ingest in a variety of ways. We are all being poisoned in a variety of ways, and our western cultures are one of the most unhealthiest in the world.
Jason, i think you are lucky that Alcohol did not destroy your life, because it does to many other people. Glad you could get control over it before it did any serious damage, as it does to so many others.
According to Stats. some 27,000 people in the U.S.A. die every year from Alcohol related deaths.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Zube View Post
*OR* maybe YOU are not an alcoholic.

It's the same as saying that diabetes isn't real, or diabetes is greatly exaggerated, because you personally used to eat a lot of sweets, and suddenly stopped.

Don't quit your day job. Your days as a expert on alcoholism are numbered.

I'm burying a friend on Friday who felt that he could control his drinking.

Zube
Zube, My Condolences on the death of your friend. I too had my Daughter's Funeral in May last year, She was 37 yrs. old. She could not quit the drinking, but also had no signs of damage until about a year before her death.
That is the insidious part of Alcohol Dependency, you usually don't get symptoms of anything wrong until it is too late, when the liver is so damaged it can no longer repair itself.
Alcoholism might not be a disease, but the effects of drinking lead to disease, in a lot of cases fatal.
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