I Don't Think Alcoholism is Real
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by JasonL76 
Guys I don't think this is a real disease. Let me tell you a little story.
Since I was 17 years old I was drinking every day. Every single day I would come back from school and hava a six pack. Once I went to college I drank even more. There was not a single day when I wouldn't have at least a six pack of beer. Usually I went out with friends, had some drinks, went to someones home, had more. Got home drank by myself. On weekends I was never sober.
I was good at doing what I had to so I graduated with a hight GPA, got a job and started working. My drinking continues. I drank with friends, I drank by myself, most night for over 5 years I had times when I didn't remember when going to sleep. It went from beer to wine, etc.
One day 2 years ago, I woke up with a hangover, something I very rarely had. I thought to myself, **** it, I can't drink every day anymore. I'm getting older, my wife is pregnant, I feel like ****, I'm not getting drunk regularly anymore.
From what I see in movies and TV and read about alcoholism, everything points to the fact that I'm an alcoholic. But also on TV, web, movies they make it seem like you can never have another drink, you always crave more, and that simply isn't true.
I still drink, but not a lot. I never sit home and drink by myself anymore. I have a glass of wine at dinner once a week with the family. Once a month I go to a poker night where I have a few beers. New years I had a glass of champagne. Over the summer I sometimes went to a BBQ and sometimes had a beer or two.
3 months ago I went to a friends wedding and had a few shots, that was a one time I had maybe too many.
So now I basically drink like normal people do. I looked at my alcohol consumption and I'm averaging less than 5 portions of alcohol per week. Some weeks I drink nothing, some I have just a glass of wine per week. That wedding I probably had like 10 shots, so that was a lot for me.
I don't crave alcohol. I can have one drink without wanting more. I don't think about alcohol unless it is around and someone offers it.
I am not in any way special, but if I can go from 10 years of getting drunk every day, to just deciding I don't want to do it and now consuming alcohol like a normal person, why can't everyone do that?
Its like quitting smoking. I smoked for 5 years, decided I don't want to anymore and stopped. Cigarettes I have to admin I craved for about a month or so. Now I have about 5 cigars every year, haven't had a cigarette in 7 years.
So basically my point is that either alcoholism is not real, or it is greatly exaggerated, or alcohol is simply not as addictive I they would like us to believe.
Since I was 17 years old I was drinking every day. Every single day I would come back from school and hava a six pack. Once I went to college I drank even more. There was not a single day when I wouldn't have at least a six pack of beer. Usually I went out with friends, had some drinks, went to someones home, had more. Got home drank by myself. On weekends I was never sober.
I was good at doing what I had to so I graduated with a hight GPA, got a job and started working. My drinking continues. I drank with friends, I drank by myself, most night for over 5 years I had times when I didn't remember when going to sleep. It went from beer to wine, etc.
One day 2 years ago, I woke up with a hangover, something I very rarely had. I thought to myself, **** it, I can't drink every day anymore. I'm getting older, my wife is pregnant, I feel like ****, I'm not getting drunk regularly anymore.
From what I see in movies and TV and read about alcoholism, everything points to the fact that I'm an alcoholic. But also on TV, web, movies they make it seem like you can never have another drink, you always crave more, and that simply isn't true.
I still drink, but not a lot. I never sit home and drink by myself anymore. I have a glass of wine at dinner once a week with the family. Once a month I go to a poker night where I have a few beers. New years I had a glass of champagne. Over the summer I sometimes went to a BBQ and sometimes had a beer or two.
3 months ago I went to a friends wedding and had a few shots, that was a one time I had maybe too many.
So now I basically drink like normal people do. I looked at my alcohol consumption and I'm averaging less than 5 portions of alcohol per week. Some weeks I drink nothing, some I have just a glass of wine per week. That wedding I probably had like 10 shots, so that was a lot for me.
I don't crave alcohol. I can have one drink without wanting more. I don't think about alcohol unless it is around and someone offers it.
I am not in any way special, but if I can go from 10 years of getting drunk every day, to just deciding I don't want to do it and now consuming alcohol like a normal person, why can't everyone do that?
Its like quitting smoking. I smoked for 5 years, decided I don't want to anymore and stopped. Cigarettes I have to admin I craved for about a month or so. Now I have about 5 cigars every year, haven't had a cigarette in 7 years.
So basically my point is that either alcoholism is not real, or it is greatly exaggerated, or alcohol is simply not as addictive I they would like us to believe.
Alcoholism is not about how much or how little one person drinks or does nor drink. Back in my drinking days, it varied up and down, like most everything else in life, dynamics often rule hand-in-hand when opportunity comes knocking. Now well into my sober days, I don't drink at all. Weirdly, not drinking at all is still something different for me because I'm an alcoholic, you see. From what I gather from your post Jason, is you seem to be saying that alcoholism dosen't exist, or is exaggerated, or whatever. I haven't drank for decades now, and yet I'm still a dyed-in-the-wool alcoholic, so I guess we can assume you and I don't agree on what alcoholism is or even what it isn't. Since you've commented on a sober recovery site, you have in turn now invited comments from members and quite a few of us are recovered alcoholics.
Drinking everyday at 17 yrs old is what it is. I do know you just didn't pick up one day and start drinking everyday for nothing. Theres always a justified reason for that kind of alcoholic drinking. You don't say why you drank to the point of never being sober on weekends. Never being sober on weekends is quite the trick, yeah? Sounds like tough times to me, and for me it was, you know?!
So one day, also for justified reasons, you decided to drink less. Great. This is not new or unusual in the experiences of many alcoholics. Most of us had often cut back in our drinking experiences. Cutting back is just a normal thing in alcoholism, is my experience and my understanding of many others experiences. Like I said, its not about quantity.
Cutting back didn't change anything for me though because I still drank, even though less times, and less quantity those times. Eventually though I would have times when i again drank too much. It would happen. The real point is that I was still drinking, so in that way i was justified into believing I could moderate and control my drinking. Well, I was just being a fool, you know.
Why can't everybody just drink normally after drinking everyday (as you say) for ten yrs from age 17 to age 27? I don't know that answer, and even if I did, it would again be a justified answer, peculiar to the prevailing subjective circumstances over those ten years. Justified answers are a dime a dozen, you know. Talk is cheap is what I'm saying. People may often make some things up to give their story legs, you know? Lying is more art then fact, is my own subjective experience. Been there too, haha ha.
Anyways. Where are we? Oh yeah, so since quantity is never of importance, and the timing is also never of importance, then what is?
Not drinking is important, imo. Drinking is less important then not drinking. Not drinking is a for sure result of free choice. Drinking is a managed choice, an often valued choice, a risky choice, a desired choice.
Do I desire to not drink? NO.
Do I risk whatever by not drinking? NO.
Did I manage my past drinking choices? YES.
Is desire for alcohol a choice for recovered alcoholics? NO.
Can an actively drinking alcoholic choose to quit? YES
Choose to slow down cut back? YES
Choose to go on the wagon? YES
Do guys who drink make up stories? HELL YES
Do guys who don't drink make up stories? ABSOLUTELY
Yeah, Jason.
Like i said, its not about quantity. I haven't drank for decades, and I still, as defined by AA, have within me the illness of alcoholism. I started drinking age 12 and was fubar by age 15. Two years before you started daily drinking I was already gonzo. I finally quit for good age 24. Awesome for me.
I tried what you say is 'now' working ie so-called normal drinking. It didn't work for me. I don't believe its gonna work for you either. If you really did drink 'everyday' for ten years, you'll be getting back into it sooner then later, if you continue with your 'normal drinking'. Its only gonna take some clever additional justifications, and imo, you'll return to everyday drinking and worse. Is that alcoholism you're now experiencing? YES, in my informed opinion, it is an example of alcoholism. Do I know what I'm talking about? Well, I think I do, lol.
Stay cool, Jason.
Welcome to SR. Happy New Year!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: England
Posts: 16
I think one of the key differences that changed in my mind was that I realized I needed to seek help when I was sober, not just when I had drank. I always found that harder, because when I was drunk and in a mess... I could say this is why I can't manage... this is why I need help. To ask for help sober, that was different because my will was saying i'm ok, and i'm weak if can't manage. I think alcoholism wants us to do that.. it wants us to find no other solution to how were feeling except by open a can of beer or bottle of spirits. Sorry I've gone off topic a bit there.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Db1105
The only thing I believe is that the OP got the response he was looking for. It's best to ignore anyone coming to an addiction recovery site saying addiction isn't real.
Personally, I see what Jason posted as an appeal for help. I guess we'll find out one way or another. In any case, he came to the right place, no big deal for us.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 600
Originally Posted by JasonL76
Guys I don't think this is a real disease.
The Big Book uses the words 'malady' or 'illness', which though may be similar, are not the same.
Bill Wilson stated when asked about the disease model, "We have never
called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a
disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease.
Instead, there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of
them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore, we did not
wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing
alcoholism a disease entity. Therefore, we always called it an illness,
or a malady - a far safer term for us to use."
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 129
I really feel compelled to comment because this could have been my story. I did moderate several times but never for 2.5 years. I kept this game up for weeks at a time until I just had one blow out night that led to drinking heavily again. It's why I know that moderation doesn't work for me.
The OP mentioned a wedding with too many shots. Was this a compulsion to drink that much? If you know it isn't for you, why did you do it? I hope you had a hotel room or a DD.
It took me a long time of "moderating" and quitting to get to my 26 days. It's still new to me.
The OP mentioned a wedding with too many shots. Was this a compulsion to drink that much? If you know it isn't for you, why did you do it? I hope you had a hotel room or a DD.
It took me a long time of "moderating" and quitting to get to my 26 days. It's still new to me.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
The other side is he hasnt exactly given it up yet either. He could try giving it up for good and see if its still so simple. I'd hope it is.
I can sortof see his side. I really dont understand people with food addictions the only way i can try too is if i try and relate my alcohol addiction as if it was a food addiction then i start to say yeah ok i can see how your addicted to sweets in a bad way.
That being said why come posting here if you dont have an issue. whats the sense in it.
I can sortof see his side. I really dont understand people with food addictions the only way i can try too is if i try and relate my alcohol addiction as if it was a food addiction then i start to say yeah ok i can see how your addicted to sweets in a bad way.
That being said why come posting here if you dont have an issue. whats the sense in it.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ca
Posts: 51
Doesn't sound like you are an alcoholic. Good for you! But because you as an individual are not an alcoholic it does not exist? I hope you do not have cancer either but do you believe that it can exist without you having it?
If you are curious about your ability to moderate you can research the heavy drinker. They drank like alcoholics but have the ability to moderate when good enough reasons present themselves, ie hangover, wife, kid. Alcoholics have plenty of good reasons to moderate but cannot do so.
So you are right, Alcoholism does not exist for you. But it does exist. You can check the facts yourself in medical journals and books such as Under the Influence and Above the Influence. Just facts not individual opinions.
If you are curious about your ability to moderate you can research the heavy drinker. They drank like alcoholics but have the ability to moderate when good enough reasons present themselves, ie hangover, wife, kid. Alcoholics have plenty of good reasons to moderate but cannot do so.
So you are right, Alcoholism does not exist for you. But it does exist. You can check the facts yourself in medical journals and books such as Under the Influence and Above the Influence. Just facts not individual opinions.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Calif
Posts: 757
Originally Posted by Midlifecrisis
Let me tell you a story. I shared needles. I never caught aids. Therefore I don't believe, despite all the scientific and real life evidence, that you can catch aids from sharing needles.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
I've never been to Australia, but I'm taking Dee's word that it exists.
Seriously, I'm glad the OP's drinking is under control, but the premise of this post is just silly.
And I'm pretty sure Midlifecrisis was joking there, playing off the OP's train of logic.
Seriously, I'm glad the OP's drinking is under control, but the premise of this post is just silly.
And I'm pretty sure Midlifecrisis was joking there, playing off the OP's train of logic.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,065
Originally Posted by robgt350
all i have to say is you are very lucky. that is one of the greatest risk factors of contracting HIV or Hep C. and i am glad you did not get it, both are chronic and progressive diseases.
And yes,
Very lucky.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,348
ok I get several of you think this is silly.
I disagree - I think this thread addresses questions most of us have thought about at some stage of our drinking careers.
So far, I think the responses - at least the ones not ragging on the OP - are worth the thread staying up.
D
I disagree - I think this thread addresses questions most of us have thought about at some stage of our drinking careers.
So far, I think the responses - at least the ones not ragging on the OP - are worth the thread staying up.
D
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
isn't it fascinating, a mind that goes through all the trouble of finding a sobriety/recovery site specifically to post that the reason we're here isn't real?
trying to imagine why i might do it....:
-to convince myself i have no problem by being able to, in my mind, dismiss and shoot down every other view
-to do the opposite: hear others and have them hear me saying in a round-about way that looking for a recovery-place is a good idea, since clearly i have a problem
-a prank
-a determined "willpower is king and you people are all weak and someone like me will show you how it's done...."
hm.........
trying to imagine why i might do it....:
-to convince myself i have no problem by being able to, in my mind, dismiss and shoot down every other view
-to do the opposite: hear others and have them hear me saying in a round-about way that looking for a recovery-place is a good idea, since clearly i have a problem
-a prank
-a determined "willpower is king and you people are all weak and someone like me will show you how it's done...."
hm.........
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
I wasn't calling questions about one's own drinking silly. I was calling attempts to question the existence of alcoholism silly.
Personally, I think that notion needs to be smacked down good and hard—precisely because so many addicts are looking for excuses to deny their own addiction.
Smack! Smack!
OK, I feel better. Moving on now...
Personally, I think that notion needs to be smacked down good and hard—precisely because so many addicts are looking for excuses to deny their own addiction.
Smack! Smack!
OK, I feel better. Moving on now...
My brain is trying to kill me
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Palo Alto, ca
Posts: 401
I tried to do what you've done exactly every day since I was 19 years old, and I couldn't, and howdy did I try, every day; I failed, every day. Once I found the resources and solutions I got better 19 months ago, at the age of 52. 52-19=12,045 attempts! Maybe it's not a disease, I really don't care. What I do know is alcohol is cunning, baffling, powerful and patient. Count yourself as one of the few who was able o do it as you describe. One question, if you've done so well what brings you here to SR?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
Originally Posted by breath
Maybe it's not a disease, I really don't care. What I do know is alcohol is cunning, baffling, powerful and patient.
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