Confessions
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 558
Originally Posted by stone 
Don't trust a fellow alkie cos they might relapse and tell? LOL
If that happened to you I am sorry hun but you have to choose the right people. Saying stuff, is getting it out of your head...it loses power in the light.
If that happened to you I am sorry hun but you have to choose the right people. Saying stuff, is getting it out of your head...it loses power in the light.
And I don't think you're very cute.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
caraway,
I admire your honesty and perseverance, the foundation of true recovery.
It pains me to know that regardless how obvious the truth is that it can be dismissed or simply ignored because it makes some uncomfortable. Nothing that has been touched by human hands remains flawless, this fact is evident by the world we live in. Not addressing a problem does not make it non existent.
"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men” Abraham Lincoln
I admire your honesty and perseverance, the foundation of true recovery.
It pains me to know that regardless how obvious the truth is that it can be dismissed or simply ignored because it makes some uncomfortable. Nothing that has been touched by human hands remains flawless, this fact is evident by the world we live in. Not addressing a problem does not make it non existent.
"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men” Abraham Lincoln
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 558
Thanks bugsworth, anyway, the incident I was talking about actually occurred MANY years ago! Just thought my experience was worth a mention since the subject came up. Of course I've shared since then with no problems - I like to think I'm a bit wiser now - but sometimes I'm not so sure! I'm just alot older!
By the way, I think the point you're putting forward about the relevance of opinions is good, I was trying to think up an example like that but couldn't come up with anything. (I suppose stone is entitled to opinions too!)
By the way, I think the point you're putting forward about the relevance of opinions is good, I was trying to think up an example like that but couldn't come up with anything. (I suppose stone is entitled to opinions too!)
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Personally, I don't think any of this has anything to do with trusting people.
I think if has to do with trusting a Power Greater than Ourselves.
If you (stepaway fromthe keyboard - I'm meaning 'you' in general for referental purpose here) are that afraid of other people and their choices - you still haven't first stepped.
You still are playing God with the actions, the perceptions, and using past expereience to anticipate the accountability of others.
That is NO trust in a Higher Power.
You haven't given in and over to the Third Step - you haven't turned your will OR your life to the care of the God of your Understanding - because you YOU are still trying to protect that which is keeping you in the same circles of pain and fear you've been running around in and running from since always.
Finally - there is no such thing as a fifth step 'per se'.
There is a fifth step.
It comes right after the fourth step - a Fearless and Moral Inventory.
Which comes after the Third Step.
Following the Second.
Initiated by the First.
Done with the guidance and the support of a sponsor.
What you are tolking about makes me very nervous.
In the Medicine Path it's called Crossing Medicine.
And it is a Dark Movement.
It does not grow Corn.
It does not give Life.
It does not ... induce permanent change for the better.
Maybe that's why, in the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, there's a saying, "If you're not doing this - you're doing something else'.
I never TOOK that to mean you were doing something inferior ...
which the massive verbage here indicates a good many people ... DID.
I ... didn't.
It just meant you weren't doing the Program of Acoholics Anonymous.
I think if has to do with trusting a Power Greater than Ourselves.
If you (stepaway fromthe keyboard - I'm meaning 'you' in general for referental purpose here) are that afraid of other people and their choices - you still haven't first stepped.
You still are playing God with the actions, the perceptions, and using past expereience to anticipate the accountability of others.
That is NO trust in a Higher Power.
You haven't given in and over to the Third Step - you haven't turned your will OR your life to the care of the God of your Understanding - because you YOU are still trying to protect that which is keeping you in the same circles of pain and fear you've been running around in and running from since always.
Finally - there is no such thing as a fifth step 'per se'.
There is a fifth step.
It comes right after the fourth step - a Fearless and Moral Inventory.
Which comes after the Third Step.
Following the Second.
Initiated by the First.
Done with the guidance and the support of a sponsor.
What you are tolking about makes me very nervous.
In the Medicine Path it's called Crossing Medicine.
And it is a Dark Movement.
It does not grow Corn.
It does not give Life.
It does not ... induce permanent change for the better.
Maybe that's why, in the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, there's a saying, "If you're not doing this - you're doing something else'.
I never TOOK that to mean you were doing something inferior ...
which the massive verbage here indicates a good many people ... DID.
I ... didn't.
It just meant you weren't doing the Program of Acoholics Anonymous.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I'm not saying either 'hey you - mr/ms anybody - come listen to this'
- so don't go there, please -
but to make it sound like no one can ever be trusted -
is just childish.
sorry, but it is.
a BARTENDER can be trusted with most people's fifth steps, for crying out loud.
I oughta know.
I listened to enough drunk ones.
- so don't go there, please -
but to make it sound like no one can ever be trusted -
is just childish.
sorry, but it is.
a BARTENDER can be trusted with most people's fifth steps, for crying out loud.
I oughta know.
I listened to enough drunk ones.
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
This is really getting confusing.
If I don't tell all my deepest secrets to my sponsor (or someone who I don't yet trust), I have to go back to step 1? I do trust my Creator but, really, I may never get to the point of trusting a virtual stranger with these details - this may just be a personal thing. I am really starting to wonder if AA is really the program for me. My question originated because as I did my resentments list, names started coming up that my sponsor (and most people I know) would recognize. I hear the way a small minority of AA members talk about others, not always in a bad way but still, in a non-confidential way. I am in a small community and I have to protect my small children, my wife, other family members, my friends, my co-workers...and myself. I am a spiritual person and if asking about this is dark in some way, I want nothing to do with it. Not good for my family, not good for my sobriety.
Maybe I'm reading things out of context?
If I don't tell all my deepest secrets to my sponsor (or someone who I don't yet trust), I have to go back to step 1? I do trust my Creator but, really, I may never get to the point of trusting a virtual stranger with these details - this may just be a personal thing. I am really starting to wonder if AA is really the program for me. My question originated because as I did my resentments list, names started coming up that my sponsor (and most people I know) would recognize. I hear the way a small minority of AA members talk about others, not always in a bad way but still, in a non-confidential way. I am in a small community and I have to protect my small children, my wife, other family members, my friends, my co-workers...and myself. I am a spiritual person and if asking about this is dark in some way, I want nothing to do with it. Not good for my family, not good for my sobriety.
Maybe I'm reading things out of context?
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
ok first -
I'm sorry if this came out crabby - i'm home with strep throat... but it was bothering me.
second- I was under the impression the discussion was about the FIFTH step. That one is pretty much the telling of .. it all.
Step Five:
Admitted to God, ousrselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs ....
I was under the impression that was the point of the discussion?
I'm sorry if this came out crabby - i'm home with strep throat... but it was bothering me.
second- I was under the impression the discussion was about the FIFTH step. That one is pretty much the telling of .. it all.
Step Five:
Admitted to God, ousrselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs ....
I was under the impression that was the point of the discussion?
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Asking is not dark. That's not crossing medicine.
No, No no.
sorry for the confusion.
pretending an action is representative of one discipline ....
when it is preformed outside that discipline .....
is like trying to claim you got a home run ...
at a foot ball game.
it's just ... not.
No, No no.
sorry for the confusion.
pretending an action is representative of one discipline ....
when it is preformed outside that discipline .....
is like trying to claim you got a home run ...
at a foot ball game.
it's just ... not.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
And finally -
a woman I love to death in the Fellowship - has 35 years sobriety - says to me all the time .. when I get all up in my whiney self sayin stuff like,
'oh, its just so hard to let it go so hard to talk about ....'
she says -
"Oh for God's sake when are you going to just let that stuff GOOOOOOOO!"
"When it KILLS ya?"
and I'm like ... oh yeah.
life
: or this
I like her.
apparently ... she's one of a dying breed....
and I'm a better person having known her.
a woman I love to death in the Fellowship - has 35 years sobriety - says to me all the time .. when I get all up in my whiney self sayin stuff like,
'oh, its just so hard to let it go so hard to talk about ....'
she says -
"Oh for God's sake when are you going to just let that stuff GOOOOOOOO!"
"When it KILLS ya?"
and I'm like ... oh yeah.
life
: or thisI like her.
apparently ... she's one of a dying breed....
and I'm a better person having known her.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
OK....it's time for me to finally say something here.......this is gotten totally outta hand.....
I know there are some folks who say that the Program is the BB (yes it is found in the BB, but...); there are folks say the Program is the first 164 pages of the BB (yup, again, it's found within those pages, but...); there are even folks who say that the directions on how to work the steps of the Program are found in the BB (there are suggestions as how some folks have worked these steps, but...),....and then there's folks like me who say...............BUT the Program is located on pages 59-60 ONLY (starting with "Here are the steps which are suggested as a program of recovery:..." and ending with "..., and to practice these principles in all our affairs."
Heck it doesn't even call this THE Program, but A Program, hmmmmm....All the pages surrounding these pages are just opinions and suggestions, based on the 100 who first worked these steps 'way back when.' This does NOT mean that these are the only way these steps need to be worked in order to work the Program.....just the ES&H of some folks who worked the steps and obtained & maintained (some did/some did not) sobriety.
I prefer to work the steps as they are written; usually not going along with the majority of others in recovery.....
PLZ.....the 2nd step does NOT say to define your HP, or even to be able to describe it, or name it, only to come to believe that there is a HP; step 3 definitely does NOT say to turn one's will and life over to whatever your HP is; it only says to make a decision to do so....and to go on to step 4.
.....now,,,,,the FIFTH step. That one is pretty much the telling of .. it all.??
"Admitted to God, ousrselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs ....:
Well, there you have it............step 5 does NOT say to confess all your wrongs, and/or your deepest, darkest secrets to another....doesn't even say to confess any of your secrets to anyone....this step says to admit to the NATURE of your wrongs..........totally different.....
For example, if in my 4th step I may have a list of all the folks I stole from; in my 5th step I would be confessing to being a theif....etc.
I dunno guys/gals, mebbe I just like to keep it waaaaay simple, but it works for me...
...as for secrets; I don't have any secrets, however no one person knows all about me....there are things that are just not some folks business, but if they become relevant to a discussion, of course I'll tell all.....
Before y'all start jumping all over what I've written here, just realize that these are my opinions/suggestions taken from my Experience, Strength, and Hope.................... (o:
NoelleR
P.S. ...as to 'to whom' this step is to be worked, read page 74 of the BB.....there are good examples there (not one of them is designated as one's sponsor...unless that sponsor is a close-mouthed, understanding friend..... (o:
I know there are some folks who say that the Program is the BB (yes it is found in the BB, but...); there are folks say the Program is the first 164 pages of the BB (yup, again, it's found within those pages, but...); there are even folks who say that the directions on how to work the steps of the Program are found in the BB (there are suggestions as how some folks have worked these steps, but...),....and then there's folks like me who say...............BUT the Program is located on pages 59-60 ONLY (starting with "Here are the steps which are suggested as a program of recovery:..." and ending with "..., and to practice these principles in all our affairs."
Heck it doesn't even call this THE Program, but A Program, hmmmmm....All the pages surrounding these pages are just opinions and suggestions, based on the 100 who first worked these steps 'way back when.' This does NOT mean that these are the only way these steps need to be worked in order to work the Program.....just the ES&H of some folks who worked the steps and obtained & maintained (some did/some did not) sobriety.
I prefer to work the steps as they are written; usually not going along with the majority of others in recovery.....
PLZ.....the 2nd step does NOT say to define your HP, or even to be able to describe it, or name it, only to come to believe that there is a HP; step 3 definitely does NOT say to turn one's will and life over to whatever your HP is; it only says to make a decision to do so....and to go on to step 4.
.....now,,,,,the FIFTH step. That one is pretty much the telling of .. it all.??
"Admitted to God, ousrselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs ....:
Well, there you have it............step 5 does NOT say to confess all your wrongs, and/or your deepest, darkest secrets to another....doesn't even say to confess any of your secrets to anyone....this step says to admit to the NATURE of your wrongs..........totally different.....
For example, if in my 4th step I may have a list of all the folks I stole from; in my 5th step I would be confessing to being a theif....etc.
I dunno guys/gals, mebbe I just like to keep it waaaaay simple, but it works for me...
...as for secrets; I don't have any secrets, however no one person knows all about me....there are things that are just not some folks business, but if they become relevant to a discussion, of course I'll tell all.....
Before y'all start jumping all over what I've written here, just realize that these are my opinions/suggestions taken from my Experience, Strength, and Hope.................... (o:
NoelleR
P.S. ...as to 'to whom' this step is to be worked, read page 74 of the BB.....there are good examples there (not one of them is designated as one's sponsor...unless that sponsor is a close-mouthed, understanding friend..... (o:
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Barb, first let me say I am sorry you are not feeling well, secondly I am afraid I really don't follow you at all.
One is not "playing God" by making prudent decisions.
What you are talking about makes me very nervous.
In the Medicine Path it's called Crossing Medicine.
And it is a Dark Movement
ok this may need further explanation....what does it mean? Crossing medicine....
nobody said "no one should be trusted"....it is childish to accuse others of that.
Quite frankly I am puzzled....not the first time..lol
One is not "playing God" by making prudent decisions.
What you are talking about makes me very nervous.
In the Medicine Path it's called Crossing Medicine.
And it is a Dark Movement
ok this may need further explanation....what does it mean? Crossing medicine....
nobody said "no one should be trusted"....it is childish to accuse others of that.
Quite frankly I am puzzled....not the first time..lol
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Gravity, don't feel bad about being confused I am too.
First you are smart to identify that the people in the meetings you attend are not perfect and people gossip...not an opinion it is a fact of life. You not only have a right to protect your family you have an obligation to. I admire the fact that you acknowledge your whole families well being during your recovery. I don't for a second believe that everybody in aa is a gossip or can't be trusted, but as is true with every group of people there is bound to be a few bad apples in the basket.
Second you are sober and growing stronger daily...you are doing this...nothing is doing it for you...letting go of the past and seeking some sort of absolution is very personal. Don't let anybody tell you that they know the right way to obtain this...in fact run from the fundamentalists. As a Christian I have clear cut directions on how to obtain not only peace, but forgiveness for my sins. I also have guidelines on how to live a quality life. If I follow these guidelines to the best of my ability I am at peace. Follow your heart, your head will follow.
First you are smart to identify that the people in the meetings you attend are not perfect and people gossip...not an opinion it is a fact of life. You not only have a right to protect your family you have an obligation to. I admire the fact that you acknowledge your whole families well being during your recovery. I don't for a second believe that everybody in aa is a gossip or can't be trusted, but as is true with every group of people there is bound to be a few bad apples in the basket.
Second you are sober and growing stronger daily...you are doing this...nothing is doing it for you...letting go of the past and seeking some sort of absolution is very personal. Don't let anybody tell you that they know the right way to obtain this...in fact run from the fundamentalists. As a Christian I have clear cut directions on how to obtain not only peace, but forgiveness for my sins. I also have guidelines on how to live a quality life. If I follow these guidelines to the best of my ability I am at peace. Follow your heart, your head will follow.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 558
Hi gravity, I hope nothing here puts you off your steps and your recovery program.
As NoelleR points out - you just have to admit the NATURE of wrongs.
Is there a bigger town or city fairly near you where you can choose another sponsor (you can have more than one sponsor).
OUr town group is quite small and alot of people in it go further afield when picking a sponsor.
And then or course the person you do a fifth step with doesn't have to be in AA.
Anyway, I think its great that you've got your family's welfare at heart too and hope your 4th and 5th steps go well and strengthen you on your road in sobriety.
As NoelleR points out - you just have to admit the NATURE of wrongs.
Is there a bigger town or city fairly near you where you can choose another sponsor (you can have more than one sponsor).
OUr town group is quite small and alot of people in it go further afield when picking a sponsor.
And then or course the person you do a fifth step with doesn't have to be in AA.
Anyway, I think its great that you've got your family's welfare at heart too and hope your 4th and 5th steps go well and strengthen you on your road in sobriety.
God is my benzo
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Charlotte, nc
Posts: 198
Step 3 states "made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of god as we understood him"
There for god is in charge. Which means I do not have to put my faith in a human. Humans fail me, god does not.
That is said with hindsight on my sight, I was terrorized before I did my 5th.
Great thread by the way, love the debate.
There for god is in charge. Which means I do not have to put my faith in a human. Humans fail me, god does not.
That is said with hindsight on my sight, I was terrorized before I did my 5th.
Great thread by the way, love the debate.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
I saw this quote on another thread and believe that it applies here as well...
"If I am going to trust my life to someone, you can damn sure bet I am going to be judgemental."
pretty cut and dry...do what is right for YOU.
"If I am going to trust my life to someone, you can damn sure bet I am going to be judgemental."
pretty cut and dry...do what is right for YOU.
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
It is here because the OP was not about the 12 step program. The author of the OP also is anti AA so rather than start a debate in the 12 step SUPPORT forum the author started the thread here. This is greatly appreciated by myself as I feel a forum that clearly states SUPPORT in it's title should not be a place for anti AA postings. Just my personal opinion.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
