Confessions
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Confessions
In the last few days there has been some talk about confessing ones wrongs to God and another human being. I would like to just add my thoughts in regards to this subject. I need to start by saying I have discussed this with a member of the clergy and have found that I am not alone in my opinion.
Telling ones "secrets" to another alcoholic, especially one who believes they are powerless over alcohol is dangerous. Anyone who believes that they experience strange "mental blank spots" is not one who can be trusted. If an alcoholic feels that one missed step in there recovery is enough to send them back to the bottle is not a good person to share your inner most thoughts with. We all know while drinking alcoholics can not trust their actions, including their mouth. If someone is only "an arms length" away from their next drink, find someone different they are not suitable to hear nor comment on your confessions.
There are many priests and clergy members available to hear confessions. Some confessions need follow up counceling. Just because someone gets sober does not make them capable of hearing and helping someone with their inner most demons.
Make a wise choice of who you tell your thoughts and secrets too, it may save you further heart ache down the line.
Telling ones "secrets" to another alcoholic, especially one who believes they are powerless over alcohol is dangerous. Anyone who believes that they experience strange "mental blank spots" is not one who can be trusted. If an alcoholic feels that one missed step in there recovery is enough to send them back to the bottle is not a good person to share your inner most thoughts with. We all know while drinking alcoholics can not trust their actions, including their mouth. If someone is only "an arms length" away from their next drink, find someone different they are not suitable to hear nor comment on your confessions.
There are many priests and clergy members available to hear confessions. Some confessions need follow up counceling. Just because someone gets sober does not make them capable of hearing and helping someone with their inner most demons.
Make a wise choice of who you tell your thoughts and secrets too, it may save you further heart ache down the line.
Including on line and with clergy too.
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It is stated in the bb that alcoholics suffer from "strange mental blank spots", and they would be drunk before they even realized what was happening. It has been a topic of debate here at SR and even at some meeting I have attended. One who believes this, that they will find themselves drunk, is not someone who should be trusted to keep anothers secrets safe.
Confession should not something taken lightly. I have seen people encouraging a member to be honest and tell his sponsor everything. They don't even know his sponsor!
This is very dangerous advice, many people get hurt by trusting the wrong person while in a vunerable state.
Confession should not something taken lightly. I have seen people encouraging a member to be honest and tell his sponsor everything. They don't even know his sponsor!
This is very dangerous advice, many people get hurt by trusting the wrong person while in a vunerable state.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
the BB goes into the selection of such individuals in quite decent detail.
what ya want, how to choose, what traits to look for, what lines of work to select from... the whole bit, really ....
maybe I'm not grasping the thrust of this?
I mean, the point?
what ya want, how to choose, what traits to look for, what lines of work to select from... the whole bit, really ....
maybe I'm not grasping the thrust of this?
I mean, the point?
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Join Date: May 2007
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Bugs, why do you persist in giving opinions based on experiences you haven't had? You do not believe in the steps, or the Big Book. You don't even believe in the first step. Why on earth would I consider any opinion you share on a 5th step. Insanity has not been restored.
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Thank-you Bugs worth for your thoughts and experience with this step they have been of great benefit to me.
I found that with my fifth step I had to turn to God for the answers and pray for what was right. I didn’t trust anyone with my 4th step. When I went into the shower I wrapped in plastic and took it in with me. There was no way my inventory was ever seeing the light of day nor was I going to let it fall into the wrong hands.
I found that I didn’t trust anyone with this stuff but my sponsor already knew much about my story and I knew about his so I asked him to hear my fifth step. I had to just be entirely honest with someone that wouldn’t be affected or judge me. My sponsor knew that I was on a life or death errand and was honored to hear it.
I figured if he told the world it wouldn’t affect me for I was doing the right thing. After the step I started to see what I could pack into the stream of life rather than who was drinking from it. It was by trusting that I learned to trust, and it was by loving that I learned to love.
My sponsor drove me home and I asked him what he was going to do for the rest of the night. He said gives thanks to God for putting me in his life.
I found that with my fifth step I had to turn to God for the answers and pray for what was right. I didn’t trust anyone with my 4th step. When I went into the shower I wrapped in plastic and took it in with me. There was no way my inventory was ever seeing the light of day nor was I going to let it fall into the wrong hands.
I found that I didn’t trust anyone with this stuff but my sponsor already knew much about my story and I knew about his so I asked him to hear my fifth step. I had to just be entirely honest with someone that wouldn’t be affected or judge me. My sponsor knew that I was on a life or death errand and was honored to hear it.
I figured if he told the world it wouldn’t affect me for I was doing the right thing. After the step I started to see what I could pack into the stream of life rather than who was drinking from it. It was by trusting that I learned to trust, and it was by loving that I learned to love.
My sponsor drove me home and I asked him what he was going to do for the rest of the night. He said gives thanks to God for putting me in his life.
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First that is why I posted it here and not in the 12 step forum.
I have read the bb numerous times and attended many, many meetings.
Here at SR people are encouraged to find a sponsor, the faster the better.
I post this because again a member was being encouraged to be honest and tell his sponsor everything, even the things he was uncomfortable sharing. The fact that the members have no idea who his sponsor is, the mans character and his trustworthyness means they should NOT be pushing this member to do so.
Gossip runs rampant in the rooms of aa. People relapse all the time....even people with years of sobriety.
Granted preist and ministers are falliable too but it is my opinion that one needs to be very selective whom they share with.
I have read the bb numerous times and attended many, many meetings.
Here at SR people are encouraged to find a sponsor, the faster the better.
I post this because again a member was being encouraged to be honest and tell his sponsor everything, even the things he was uncomfortable sharing. The fact that the members have no idea who his sponsor is, the mans character and his trustworthyness means they should NOT be pushing this member to do so.
Gossip runs rampant in the rooms of aa. People relapse all the time....even people with years of sobriety.
Granted preist and ministers are falliable too but it is my opinion that one needs to be very selective whom they share with.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Hate to be contrary but that borderline paranoia ...
"dont tell theyr'e out after me" crap
kept me drunk.
I can't hide any more.
I won't.
I deserve better.
I am not ashamed.
sorry.
I wasted too many years ashamed of who I was afraid I was.
"dont tell theyr'e out after me" crap
kept me drunk.
I can't hide any more.
I won't.
I deserve better.
I am not ashamed.
sorry.
I wasted too many years ashamed of who I was afraid I was.
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Neither AA nor SR encourage recovering alcoholics to tell their secrets to a specific person.
The 12 steps and the big book of AA outline the process of gaining humility and self honesty through conducting inner work. This process encourages connection with others and return to society after a lifestyle of hiding and fear and isolation as well as self-centerdness. I'm sure you know all this since you say you've read the big book and attened AA meetings.
Its really wise to use discernement in life, and this is a fine example. We choose wisely who we confide in. Then we let it go and get on with life.
We don't fancy ourselves and our divulgences to be so important nor are they so unique, frankly, that they will make the nightly news, or be dramatic enough to detsroy lives. Again, discernment, honesty and humility.
The 12 steps and the big book of AA outline the process of gaining humility and self honesty through conducting inner work. This process encourages connection with others and return to society after a lifestyle of hiding and fear and isolation as well as self-centerdness. I'm sure you know all this since you say you've read the big book and attened AA meetings.
Its really wise to use discernement in life, and this is a fine example. We choose wisely who we confide in. Then we let it go and get on with life.
We don't fancy ourselves and our divulgences to be so important nor are they so unique, frankly, that they will make the nightly news, or be dramatic enough to detsroy lives. Again, discernment, honesty and humility.
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Taking the original quote it would seem that bugs might have something there, let me throw the entire quote out to where it is not taken out of context.
One needs to even take the above quote into context:
This is from a story about a man who had not gone through the steps!!!
This is from a man who had been 12 stepped and said after hearing of the program:
Okay so we see here that he made a decision to not work the program!!!!!!
He was just like me before I worked the program, he felt that his self will and knowledge would keep him sober.
When one comes up with stuff like this they are misleading them selfs and many others by taking things totally out of context!
"those strange mental blank spots" were of a man who had not worked the steps!!!!
I would not do a 5th step with a man like this, he had no solution, he had not worked the steps, he was not a recovered alcoholic! Heck he wasn't even a recovering alcoholic, he was simply an alcoholic who did not drink......... until he started drinking again!
Folks PLEASE when taking advice or suggestions from someone about working the steps take it from someone who has worked the steps!!!
Taking advice from someone who has not worked the steps with a sponsor is like putting your life in the hands of a surgeon who has never been to medical school and never performed surgery before.
Bugs on this point I agree, when one is looking to do their 5th step they should seek the advice of those who have worked the steps in regards to who to do thier 5th step with.
I do not give advice on things I have not done, I am not qualified!
Bugs I have done the steps with a sponsor, have you?
I knew from that moment that I had an alcoholic mind. I saw that will power and self- knowledge would not help in those strange mental blank spots.
This is from a story about a man who had not gone through the steps!!!
This is from a man who had been 12 stepped and said after hearing of the program:
We told him what we knew about alcoholism. He was interested and conceded that he had some of the symptoms, but he was a long way from admitting that he could do nothing about it himself. He was positive that this humiliating experience, plus the knowledge he had acquired, would keep him sober the rest of his life. Self- knowledge would fix it.
He was just like me before I worked the program, he felt that his self will and knowledge would keep him sober.
When one comes up with stuff like this they are misleading them selfs and many others by taking things totally out of context!
"those strange mental blank spots" were of a man who had not worked the steps!!!!
I would not do a 5th step with a man like this, he had no solution, he had not worked the steps, he was not a recovered alcoholic! Heck he wasn't even a recovering alcoholic, he was simply an alcoholic who did not drink......... until he started drinking again!
Folks PLEASE when taking advice or suggestions from someone about working the steps take it from someone who has worked the steps!!!
Taking advice from someone who has not worked the steps with a sponsor is like putting your life in the hands of a surgeon who has never been to medical school and never performed surgery before.
Granted preist and ministers are falliable too but it is my opinion that one needs to be very selective whom they share with.
I do not give advice on things I have not done, I am not qualified!
Bugs I have done the steps with a sponsor, have you?
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This is one of those topics, which if dicussed more than two or three minutes, only results in trying to **** up a rope.
It's a waste of time for people who've worked the steps and are sober as a result, to argue the benefits of doing so with anyone who hasn't worked the steps and has no desire to do so. Each side has points to be made and never the two shall meet.
It would seem that the best solution would be to keep all that crap to myself. Those of us who've been in AA for a while have seen what can happen when "we try to hold on to our old ideas." THE RESULTS ARE NIL!! The old idea here is the same one I held onto for years, and that is that I was intelligent enough and wise enough that if given enough time, I'd figure out how to deal with any problem that came up. Of course, it goes without saying that all my intelligence and wisdom, got me drunk and kept getting me drunk, and liked to kill me. It wasn't until I was willing to change that things started to change.
It's a waste of time for people who've worked the steps and are sober as a result, to argue the benefits of doing so with anyone who hasn't worked the steps and has no desire to do so. Each side has points to be made and never the two shall meet.
It would seem that the best solution would be to keep all that crap to myself. Those of us who've been in AA for a while have seen what can happen when "we try to hold on to our old ideas." THE RESULTS ARE NIL!! The old idea here is the same one I held onto for years, and that is that I was intelligent enough and wise enough that if given enough time, I'd figure out how to deal with any problem that came up. Of course, it goes without saying that all my intelligence and wisdom, got me drunk and kept getting me drunk, and liked to kill me. It wasn't until I was willing to change that things started to change.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by bugsworth 
First that is why I posted it here and not in the 12 step forum.
I have read the bb numerous times and attended many, many meetings.
Here at SR people are encouraged to find a sponsor, the faster the better.
I post this because again a member was being encouraged to be honest and tell his sponsor everything, even the things he was uncomfortable sharing. The fact that the members have no idea who his sponsor is, the mans character and his trustworthyness means they should NOT be pushing this member to do so.
Gossip runs rampant in the rooms of aa. People relapse all the time....even people with years of sobriety.
Granted preist and ministers are falliable too but it is my opinion that one needs to be very selective whom they share with.
I have read the bb numerous times and attended many, many meetings.
Here at SR people are encouraged to find a sponsor, the faster the better.
I post this because again a member was being encouraged to be honest and tell his sponsor everything, even the things he was uncomfortable sharing. The fact that the members have no idea who his sponsor is, the mans character and his trustworthyness means they should NOT be pushing this member to do so.
Gossip runs rampant in the rooms of aa. People relapse all the time....even people with years of sobriety.
Granted preist and ministers are falliable too but it is my opinion that one needs to be very selective whom they share with.
There was A LOT of advice about going to someone trusted even if it not be your sponsor (priest, therapist, doctor, stranger etc). Let's be fair to what really went on in that thread - not to mention the reaction (in the form of a reply) of the person who started the thread (he/she took the advice quite well, so it seems).
My experience - since it has been brought up on this thread - Once I dumped all that cr@p in my fifth step - it doesn't hold any power over me any longer. I could care less who finds out what is in my fourth step inventory - If I have caused harm to anyone and it came up in inventory, I #1 - have made ammends #2 - are currently seeking those people out to make amends. This includes courts, creditors, ex-girlfriends, close friends, families, employers so and and so forth. I am very active in my ammends right now.
I think you are giving an opinion of an experience with which you have no experience, while I value that opinion - it is only an opinion you have based on either reading the book, attending meetings, or reading here on SR. I do not find you providing much practical experience to back up your claims (did a sponsor turn on you and publish your inventory to the public or something?)
There is a vast difference between knowledge based on experience and knowledge based on observation.
I wish you all the best in cleaning up the wreckage of your past and getting to a place where those things no longer hold power over you (that goes for everyone else who reads this thread).
~Adam
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btw - When 'strange mental blankspots' are referred to- it is talking about times where we lose the ability to 'think the drink through'. The BB's use of that term refers to what happens before one takes a drink - regardless of the consequence, we are unable to bring to mind (with sufficient force) the memory of the torture which is active alcoholism.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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I think you have a valid point bugsworth. Not everyone is at their wisest in making choices in early sobriety, and gossip in AA can be rife!
I've had the experience that you're talking about and it really is not very pleasant at all. The sense of betrayal can be overwhelming, particularly when one is vulnerable both physically and mentally.
I won't go into details except to say that I'm back in AA now and enjoying it and fortunately a bit stronger and wiser than I was before. (The group is also growing stronger and wiser!) The experience has helped me learn a few more things - not to expect too much from others or myself - not to take myself so seriously - and I'm sure there is alot more I can learn from it if I think about it!
As for the inventory, for anyone who is worried about sharing with another human being, that other human being doesn't have to be in AA (AA members may be limited in small and/or isolated groups), it just has to be another human. Anyone infact, that you can trust. You may even want to use more than one person for a full inventory. Just my experience...
I've had the experience that you're talking about and it really is not very pleasant at all. The sense of betrayal can be overwhelming, particularly when one is vulnerable both physically and mentally.
I won't go into details except to say that I'm back in AA now and enjoying it and fortunately a bit stronger and wiser than I was before. (The group is also growing stronger and wiser!) The experience has helped me learn a few more things - not to expect too much from others or myself - not to take myself so seriously - and I'm sure there is alot more I can learn from it if I think about it!
As for the inventory, for anyone who is worried about sharing with another human being, that other human being doesn't have to be in AA (AA members may be limited in small and/or isolated groups), it just has to be another human. Anyone infact, that you can trust. You may even want to use more than one person for a full inventory. Just my experience...
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As for the inventory, for anyone who is worried about sharing with another human being, that other human being doesn't have to be in AA (AA members may be limited in small and/or isolated groups), it just has to be another human. Anyone infact, that you can trust. You may even want to use more than one person for a full inventory. Just my experience...
I know folks who have done a detailed 5th with a preist and then a generalized 5th with thier sponsor. For me I trust my sponsor far more then I would a Priest for the simple reason I know the man, I have never heard him say one single thing that someone else has said to him in confidence or not.
I am sure that most priest respect peoples confessions and do not share them with others, but I bet the percentage of them telling each other what was confessed to them that day to each other is a lot higher then the percentage of them that have broken their vow of celibacy.
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Originally Posted by Tazman53
I know folks who have done a detailed 5th with a preist and then a generalized 5th with thier sponsor. For me I trust my sponsor far more then I would a Priest for the simple reason I know the man, I have never heard him say one single thing that someone else has said to him in confidence or not.
I am sure that most priest respect peoples confessions and do not share them with others, but I bet the percentage of them telling each other what was confessed to them that day to each other is a lot higher then the percentage of them that have broken their vow of celibacy.
I am sure that most priest respect peoples confessions and do not share them with others, but I bet the percentage of them telling each other what was confessed to them that day to each other is a lot higher then the percentage of them that have broken their vow of celibacy.
I know that priests are fallible but I don't believe they all sit around telling each other about confessions, I really do believe that it is taken much more seriously than that! As it happens, I really do trust my priest, no doubt, like human beings in any other group, priests vary, but the one we have here I would trust 100 percent.
It seems you have as much (or as little) trust in the church as some people do for AA. Both groups are run by human beings and are therefore fallible. I don't think you have to have experience of both groups to assume this, just experience of life in general.
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I know that priests are fallible but I don't believe they all sit around telling each other about confessions,
I am not religous, but today I do have respect and a trust of people who are religous, to me churches are mad and run by man, as a result I respect what they do, but I really do not view them as an authority on spirituality or a need for a personal connection with God. Just me...... and my opinion! LOL
My opinion and about $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee at 7-11!
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