Zencat

Sometimes when I hear: let the addict hit bottom then they will change their ways. It can sound like to me: when the addict progress until they cause enough damage to their mind/body they will change their ways.

What other disease does that philosophy fit. Maybe cancer. When the cancer patient is unable to care for themselves, maybe they will seek treatment. I could understand why no one would want to stand by and watch that unfold.

The whole ‘bottom” concept is hard for me to understand. What I can understand is that many an addict die. Too many.

I guess it’s best to love from afar.

lanie67

Thanks cynay. That is so true. As a recovering alcoholic I am just now learning about my serious disease of codependency. I read posts of people in the family and friends forum and I think to myself...wow, these folks are in hell, this is a life of hell, living with an active addict. I did it myself, the last relationship I had, and I am glad I had that experience, since I was one in the past. I just had three active addicts do some damage to me, and I am having to set some boundaries around my relationships and my codependent behaviors. It means not seeing myself as a human ambulance, with lights flashing and sirens blaring always rushing to pick up the next walking disaster and tuck them under my wing, because in the end I always get used. I have defects of character just like the active alcoholic does that my codependency covers up and numbs out. And thanks for saying that we deserve better. We do. Alcoholics/addicts have a higher power, and we are not it. When we pretend to be, we interfere with their growth and enable their self-destruction. We interfere with their ability to practice the first three steps, and we and they stay stuck.

1) Admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become unmanageable.
2) Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3) Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to God as we understood Him.

I don't want to place myself between anyone and those three steps today; if I do, then I am in disease (codependency) just like if they drink or use, they are in the disease of addiction.

barb dwyer

hi homer ...

I've been reading these threads off and on for a while now. I've seen people come into the rooms with the same attitude or whatever it is you're doing, or trying to do.
All I know is it isn't what got 'me' into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. So there's an aspect in that I can't speak from experience from. If I'm making sense.

But there *is* something I've seen in the people who 'revolving door' the Program and the Fellowship. They won't commit - because they're looking for AA to guarantee them the 'high' they don't want to let go of.

They don't stay in AA because they're looking for it to make them 'high'.

Think about that.

As the poster child for addictive personality ... I'm here to tell ya... it took every drink, every vomit, every pain, and every loss to get me sincere.
Every. Single. One.
IT took ... what it took.

I didn't go into AA to get attention.
Or to get high.
Or to be complimented or coddled.
I went to AA because I had nowhere else to go.
Nothing else was left for me.
No one else would have me.
No one cared.
I had and was ... nothing.

In fact, the night before I went to my first meeting after that relapse - I tried and damn near succeeded in killing myself.
There is no scientific or medical reason for me to be breathing today. Not one.

There is only One Reason.
One.
We are ALL 'inside' that One Complete Thing.
Whether we believe we are, or not.

We .. do not determine whether we live or not.
There is only One Thing that does that.
I am the living proof that if it is not your time -
you are not going anywhere.

You, hon, or anyone reading this can take all the drunks, all the highs, and all the finest climaxes of all the greatest sex in this entire life, wrap them all into one overwhelming eye-popping catharsis of breathless experiential extacy (-sp?)

... and I would not trade it ...

for any given moment ...
when I feel a part of The Infinite.
Those moments I know - I am a Child of God.
And I am loved.

I don't 'believe' in God.
I don't 'suspect'
don't 'think' there's a HP ...
I know.
I know.

I was spared.
When so many aren't.

Getting high, getting drunk, getting laid ...
is a cheap cardboard substitute
When compared to knowing that Connection.

I hope that for you, Homer.
That moment of knowing.
HP's Will.

I hope that for anyone who reads this.
I can't help but hope that for any alcoholic
who is still 'out there' suffering.

that's all I got.
barb

IMHomerSimpson

heard everbody loud and clear here,i dont know whats my answer,i honestly do NOT know MY answer.Im tearing my mind and body up,still dont feel im at the bottom but i dont want to go down any farther,this is starting to really hurt.

GlassPrisoner

Meh, wait 'till the disease REALLY starts to Rock & Roll. You ain't seen nuthin' yet. Maybe, you'll end up here (where I did, thx Barb):

If you're still alive & not locked up, then, just maybe you'll swallow you pride and ego, walk into the rooms of AA, and ask for help, and do what they suggest.

It get's better, it really does. But it's probably gonna get worse first. It's a simple program, but not an easy one.

Tazman53

Homer you know exactly where I am at in my sobriety, you could be there to. I am no better then you, as a matter of fact in your eyes I am less then you and that is okay with me.

I know you look down on me because I admit I am incapable of doing it my way, I do follow directions now, call it weak if you think that is what I am. I would much rather be weak (In your opinion)and sober, then strong and drunk!

Patrick obviously I struck a nerve, I meant to. You are incapable of taking care of your self due to your drinking, you are just like a baby, you could not even stay drunk now without some one taking care of you like you were a baby.

I saw your apology on another thread of yours, consider it accepted, I have been where you are at right now, there is a solution, but you need to take actions other then posting here.

GlassPrisoner

QTF (Quoted for truth.)

SaTiT

you don't have to hit rock bottom...
sometimes the bottom comes up and hit ya in the arss.

pain is good...
kind of like...lets not do the crap again.

just a reminder HS...alcohol is a depressent..if you drinking anymore of it,
it'll make you even more depressed then you already are. That's what keeps us in the cycle,
a spyro into the great abyss

Bascially we all suffer from depression when we first stopped drinking.

hope3

Glad to hear it, now go sign yourself into a treatment center and detox.

Then stay there and get the education and counseling you need to get to where

you want to be, if sober is where you want to be...

I care, but that I care won't stop that beer from finding your lips, you have tried on your own long enough, take that anger you have and turn it at your disease. Go to the specialist, and let them tell you what you need to do, and do it.

Bless you homer, hope3

came2believe

Homer, you know I want you to get well, BUT
This statement above focuses on the alcoholic and what He/She would like the best.
What about others, the codependents in the situation?
Don't they deserve to be well too?

came2believe

hey homer
don't worry about tomorrow
just don't pick up today
that works for me

GrouchoTheCat

Homer, I usually try not to give advice but I can really feel the pain in your messages.

So... I strongly suggest, as others have, that you take a week or two out of your life and go to a detox. There you will meet real people who are struggling as you are. You will also have the opportunity to speak one on one with some very good counsillors. It has been my experience that most of the counsillors that are in the field are in recovery themselves. They have been there, done that and have been attracted to the field from a sincere desire to help others.

In the grand schene of things a week or two is but the blink of an eye.

Please think about it,

Ted

GettinSober

Homer,

Getting 'dry' is so very difficult. For me it's about wanting sobriety so much more than wanting a drink. When I accepted that concept (which for me was the hardest thing of all to accept - simple as it seems on face value) I stopped my self abuse. I hope you find a way to love yourself again - I forgot how to and it was horrible.

As for some of the replies on here I have to say I'm surprised and I'm saddened. So many members here say how being an alcoholic is a physical pre-disposition and yet when it suits them they tell a 'current' sufferer to 'grow up' and have some mental discipline (some say it directly and some imply it strongly). How very hypocritical, supercilious and condescending - No matter how well meaning or how times they have tried with a certain person.

jimhere

I have been working with this person-a young alcoholic woman who will I believe will keep drinking until she either is locked up for killing someone else driving drunk, or dies herself. She drank during her Fourth Step-I continued to work with her. She drank and had a fight with her brother, got put in jail and missed the appointment for the Fifth Step. Then she finished her inventory, drank once more and the we Fifth Stepped the inventory. I was gone over the weekend and recieved a call from her yesterday afternoon telling me she drank Friday. At which point I told her I could no longer work with her. It takes too much out of me and doesn't help her either.

The book "Alcoholics Anonymous" talks about how it is useless to work with someone who can't or won't work with you and how it is a waste of time and energy trying to persuade such a person. Alcohol isn't called the Great Persuader for nothing, Homer. The only thing I can say is that if you are hell-bent on dying of alcoholism is that I love you so much that I wouldn't dream of getting in your way. Good luck to you.
Jim

Dee74

Hey GettinSober,
I'm kinda in two minds...(and Homer I'm gonna hijack this thread for a minute and get all general and abstract-y here)

on the one hand, we all have to have some sense of personal responsibility...we have an unusual disease in that we can choose not to be sick, predisposition or not...like you say we can choose a desire for sobriety over the desire to drink...on the other hand, if a person's desire to drink is still greater than anything else, then they're in effect powerless, and enslaved to their addiction. Some believe 'tough love' and turning up the heat can lead/force someone else to the point of making the choice. Wouldn't and didn't work on me but I'm a stubborn SOB. Evidence seems to suggest it does work for loads of others though.

The good news is, for me, this site tipped the balance, I got here at the 'right' time, it was the help I was looking for and I found the strength to pick the choice I wanted. Go sobriety !

D

GrouchoTheCat

When anyone, anywhere reaches out for help,

I want the hand of AA always to be there

and for that

I am responsible

Music

I knew it! I knew sooner or later someone would post this catchy little phrase. Thing is Groucho, Homer isn't reaching out for help. He's reaching out for attention. He's been reaching out for attention for at least three years, unless my counting is off. So, the question here is, how long does one hold another person's hand, who won't get with the program. All you "co-dependants" out there will hold on forever, and play the martyr game so everyone can see just how good and compassionate you are. Well, I agree with Jim. There's a limit on how long I'll hold hands with someone. I've reached my limit with Homer. Every time I see a post from Homer I get excited at the prospect that maybe he's doing things differently. It's not that Homer can't change. He just won't change. And, I've waisted enough of my time for today dealing with Homer. Y'all have a great day.

Tazman53

Music you nailed it, no one can be helped until they are willing to help them selfs.

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path."

Following a path requires some sort of action and crying "Woe is me" is not action. The man has spent 3 years crying wolf typing on the keyboard here at SR and has not even picked up a phone to try and help himself.

Mercedes1

I heard someone 21years sober say at a meeting after everyone went around the room giving stories of their "bottoms". I could relate to hers the most..she said..."early recovery was the bottom I needed". Basically the process of not drinking and facing the uncomfortablness, the pain, the bad feelings, the INSTRUCTIONS, meetings, trusting God...(steps 1-3) are what you need if you want to get out of this cycle...

For me, the misery of recovery was enough for me to never want to do it again. The good news...IT IS WORTH IT.

Emimily

I know an alcoholic who is quite fond of saying snarky little things like "well, maybe you should go out and drink some more pain, then you'll be ready to work." He's kidding, I hope. But-I get what the point is.

AA isn't for everyone that needs it, it's for everyone that WANTS it.