i disagree with "letting them hit their bottom"....
 

this approach,my personal experience,is just as bad as buying alcohol for them/us. why give up on us? u know the odds are many of us will die if we keep doing the "thing". thats like watching some body bleed to death,dont ya think? basically everybody gave up on me,not totally but for the most part my drinking is not even talked about anymore. what im feeling is frig it,i may as well just keep drinking cuz most of me isnt scared of death in my clouded up mind.im thinkin more harm than good turning your head on "us",as much as i hated gettin drilled about my drinking it made it want me to quit even more,just to end the annoying drink talk. just my thoughts on this,im not trying to get controversial but doesnt it make more sense NOT giving up on someone u care for?

As a mother of an addict, I hope you don't mind that I stumbled across this and felt compelled to reply.
Through my son's struggles, I never gave up hope, never thought he couldn't do it ( if he wanted to bad enough) and never stopped loving him...ever.

But as long as I was there picking him up, cleaning up his messes, bailing him out of trouble and all the rest, he didn't FEEL the affects of his using...I did.
I did tremendously, to the point that I thought it would kill ME.

When I got the courage to move out of the way and let him stumble, and yes, fall hard, HE finally felt the effects, and realised the consequences of his using.
It was only then the he started asking for help.

I thought I was helping him...not letting him reach his bottom. But I was only allowing the addict to be more comfortable, and allowing myself to think I was saving him.
How dare me rob him of the opportuntiy to feel the pain.
And how dare me rob him of the chance to succeed.
There was never a minute that I no longer cared
I hope this makes sense

(((hugs)))
Cece

did you ever stop to think that people don't give up.. they just stop trying because it hurts too much to fail!

not sure what to say other than im just speaking for myself here. i find that with no interuptions in my drinking pattern im drinking heavier than before,could it be im just getting more tolerant to alcohol? maybe,but its just too freggin ez now to just get home and numb my mind. im a bad father/husband/son/brother/soninlaw/friend,ya name em and ill be there. i running out of time,but not acting out any plan(s) as of now.

if we could solve it, we would, homer. believe me, many of us have tried and continue to try to save our loved ones. we're powerless too. blessings, k

Ya know Homer, I've never given up hope where you're concerned. I don't believe anyone is "hopeless." I have given up on helping you because I do believe you're helpless at this point, and what's worse is you don't want help. If you did, you'd take some of the help that's been given you here. You've been coming here for probably three years and there's little sign of any improvment. So bottom line for me is, I refuse to put any more into helping someone than they're willing to help themselves. You do nothing, so I do nothing. I've turned you over to the God of my understanding Homer. You're in His hands and out of mine. I'm not God, and I don't have the right to stand in the way of someone hitting his bottom.

now thats what im talkin about music,i think of your posts everytime i come here,maybe in some sort of pychological way u are right BUT i dont wanna hear it. maybe thats a solution,maybe not. music,u have been where i am a long time ago,even tho i know im wrong i get mad at ya "tough love" approach,but who am i? just a drunk who doesnt listen,u knew that already tho. ya may not beleive me when i say this but the one dream i have in life is just to feel normal,go to a amusement park and drink milkshakes instead of refilling my souvenier beer mug.i hate them people all smiley and stuff,enjoying themselves while i drink and sit and smoke and think how to leave to get comfy at home with my beer,then goto sleep. music,i actually hated even posting back to you cuz some ppl can take you the wrong way,i know u been there for me for years now,i havent changed a bit,u tried nice,u tried not-so-nice but i never made ya say "hes gonna make it this time",hey man,i respect you so much,music,im just ,just,i dont know what to say.peace

Homer, long ago, I posted on your threads all the time. I gave whatever experience I had that I thought would help you. I worried about you. But, I stopped and I haven't responded to your posts in a long time. As Music said, I haven't given up on you, but there are so many other people here who really want help.

It seems to me that you are, once again, blaming everyone else because you won't stop drinking.

im really not blaming others,i know its me. i wasnt meaning coming here to SR and you guys rejecting me,its outside of this site that i was referring to,crap,i stopped replying to some ppl here myself,not what i intended. im just saying in my life,my real life face to face people had enuf,so they dont bother with talking sense to me about my drinking and i think it is too ez now for me to just hrow my arms up and drink,u rite tho,this is one selfish guy here,i truly am selfish,ill be back

Anna hit the nail on the head Homer... you can't look to us for a reason to stop drinking it must come from within... folks here can help you with the "how's"... you have to find the "who what when where... " of course the who is you... what is the the being sober... all you have to do is decide when and where... you really don't have to chose where... just when... and where will decide itself...

Homer, you are pretty close to where I was a little over 7 months ago, but you are not there yet.

Are you still living with your family?
Is your wife taking care of all of your bills?
Does your wife still sleep with you?
Does she still talk to you?
Does your wife still wash your clothes and feed you?

Will she be doing any of the above a month from now?

If the answer to any of the above is yes then you are not where I was 7 months ago.

When you answer no to all of the above or in my case the answer was going to be no to all of the above in a month, then you will be where I was.

I drank as long as I knew my wife was going to take care of me. Sounds kind of like a baby and it's mommy doesn't it? Yes I was the baby and my wife was the mommy.

Well Homer I kept drinking until mommy said she was not taking care of her baby any more, my mommy told me flat out that her dad was going to have her and the kids a place to live and I would have to deal with me and my drinking all by my self!!!

My real parents are both dead and no one else was ready to take the baby in and take care of it.

Homer you are just like I used to be, you are a drunk baby and as long as your mommy takes care of you, you will keep on drinking.

Homer one of 2 things are going to happen to you if you are like I was.

1. Mommy is going to get tired of taking care of her drunk baby and leave the baby's butt high and dry and her baby will do one of 2 things, he will either keep drinking and lose it all and die, or the baby will decide to stop throwing up and decide to grow up. In other words stop drinking.

2. Mommy will take care of her little drunk baby until her little drunk baby drinks itself to death.

Homer no matter what I say here or any one else does, you are going to keep drinking until either you die, or your moomy and the rest of your family abandon the baby, and even if they all abandon you, you may still take the baby's way out and just drink your self to death because you are not man enough to grow up.

Homer put down your beer for a minute and go look at yourself in the mirror and tell me I am not telling the truth.

Wow....

Let me start by saying Im not an Alcoholic, Im Co-dependent.... Im the enabler that you think should still support you and your drinking.

I think if you had an Idea of what your drinking does to us, to the family you would not be saying this. My Alcoholic was killing me.... actually mentally, physically and emotionally. Why do you think that we should continue to take the abuse, pain, chaos so that you cant what???? not have an additional 5 beers a night cuz of our complaining??? Does it really matter???

We deserve a life, and not one that is all about the Alcoholic. We deserve to have senerity and peace in our life.... and not just when the Alcoholic passes out ... and then we get to do it all over again. We deserve a Partner .... not another child to clean up after.

If you know you are selfish why inflict that on another ..... especially someone that you say you love??? IMHO that is not love, not at all.

Homer, this is a spiritual disease not physical (bleeding). You can't put a bandaid on this one. Digest this...NOONE CAN TAKE THE PLACE OF YOUR RECOVERY.

As far as help...GOD. He will not let anyone take his place. And you are right on the bottoms, you don't have to bottom out..that is your choice. Most people however get to that point where they have nothing to live for..so they surrender out of desperation ...to God (willingness if nothing else).

But be careful...there is no use saying you chose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up.

Hi Patrick,

From the time I was about 17 and on my own, I drank the way I wanted to. When I was about 24 I was forced into alcohol treatment by the military. I wound up worming out of it because my Commanding Officer liked me. It was around this time that I got DWI number one. I was in a bad marrage and I continued to drink until I was about 27.

Now I was divorced, had nothing to my name, was in debt, living with my parents, had my 2nd DWI, etc,etc,ect. I finally asked for help. What I want to say tho is that until I wanted to be sober more than I wanted to drink there wasn't a darn thing anyone was going to say to me that would have made me change.

Fast forward to about 33 years old. Thought I was cured. Started drinking again. It took me another ten plus years to want to get sober for good. During that time believe me I was told. My loved ones told me, the Judges told me, my bosses had all fired me, etc,ect,ect. Had DWI 3 and 4 by now. Did 2 years probation, did 30 days in jail. I still drank.

When we talk about letting people hit their bottom, it is because we had to hit our own bottom. You coulda talked to me all day long and there wasn't no way in heck I was gonna stop. Oh, I would tell you that I was gonna stop but I was already planning on how to get more booze just as soon as I got out of whatever crisis I had gotten myself into.

Some have a 'high' bottom some have a 'low' bottom, for some the bottom is death, or worse, like sitting in jail for the rest of your life cause ya ran over some little kids and you don't even remember it.

So Patrick, I truly hope your bottom is a high one but only God knows, and I have said some prayers for you.

I could go and find you, hit you over the head and drag you to a meeting, but until you decide, deeply, that you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, you just are not ready. I can't become ready for you, you have to do that for yourself. I see people in the meetings who have to attend because they were ordered to go to meetings by a judge and a very few of them do get the message. Most of them I never see again.

I wish you well Patrick because more than anything else I see you struggling. You remind me so much of myself and the way I was. This is why we reach out to others, because in you I see myself.

Take Care Patrick,

Ted

Hey Homer ---


First you say, "im really not blaming others..."

and then you say,

"...im just saying in my life,my real life face to face people had enuf,so they dont bother with talking sense to me about my drinking and i think it is too ez now for me to just hrow my arms up and drink..."

Well ------ that's blaming others! ... the 'it is too ez now for me to just throw up my arms and drink.....(not said but thought---cause those others aren't talking sense to me about my drinking, any more; if they were, it would all be different-----HAH).....

And, like I said, I bet those folks at one time did try to talk sense to you, just like the folks on here are tried, but like them, they've become exhausted and/or depressed.....and perhaps moved on to someone who was willing to take and work on some of the suggestions made.....

Ya know....I truly loved the old axiom when I first started on the road of recovery that said ---- "AA; that stands for Attitude Adjustment!" Well, that it does, and that adjustment can often be the starting point to recovery.....the beginnings of being honest, openminded, and willing..... (o:

....as a lot of folks say........"The ball's in your court now, Homer."


NoelleR
DOS: 6/23/86

I didn't stop drinking just becuase one say not too.
I mother got on her knee and beg me to stopped...that didn't stop me.
The woman cried her heart out...for cring out loud, she's mother.
She's probably the only person in this world that has unconditional love for me.
That didn't stop me...

I dun..know, it can be a pretty painful experince to watch someone
you love slowing destroying and killing himself.

It wasn't like, I nevered got arrested before...the woman bailed my ass out
again,and again. So, what the hell did i do after I got out ???
I went and got f-up again...

I spent a couple of weeks in the rubber room....real close to getting
institutionalize..It was cold in thar too.
I did manage to stay sober in there...i promise the doctor, I wouldn't hurt
myself , becuase I miss sunshine, not becuase i wanted to stop drinking.

Whatelse was anyone suppost to do for me anymore.

that was 2 out of 3....

Hi Pat,

I have responded to your posts and tried to support you, maybe not as much as the others, but I have tried to be a pal. We still care about you, but I have to agree, you have made almost no attempt to alter your lifestyle.

And I have to agree with the others, it's because you still have not personally suffered the consequences of your actions. But I tell you this, my friend, your day will come, and it won't be pretty. When your kids reject you, you find your wife has been having an affair for the last 5 years, your loved ones have died off, and you dont even remember when.

I'm not perfect, those that know me here know I'm a work in progress. But I am trying to alter my lifestyle, and I believe I have made a lot of progress since coming here. You need to grow up, my friend. Your too old for this s***. You have a wife and kids (for the moment).

It's gotta come from you, no one else can do it for you. I suffered wd, and am sober again for a while because I want to be, I want to be there for my wife, to enjoy my boys growing up, to be able to do my job with a clear head. Sure, I most likely will fall again, like I did not too long ago, but not to where I dont lose sight of the prize that so many here encourage me to seek. I'm scared, pal, scared of killing myself over something stupid like drinking too much. There are too many that depend on me.

Take Care, Pat!
Steve

We have a condition, you and I, which makes our lives very painful. But there is nothing at all I can do about your condition. I can only treat mine, and tell you how I do it. Until such times as you are willing to take responsibility for the treatment of your condition, there's nothing much else to say. To take responsibility you have to acknowledge you have it.

None of us willingly acknowledged we had a condition beyond our control. We had to hit our own personal bottoms to be able to. So I am very, very grateful that I have had my rock bottom - although I know I can have more, if I choose to stop the treatment - and so I wouldn't wish any delay whatsoever on you reaching yours. The sooner you get there, the sooner you can get into recovery.

Homer ask your mommy which thread you should read.

Stop throwing up and start growing up!

hi Patrick,

whew ! you're copping a beating today !

I recognise a lot of me in you - 'they don't come around anymore, they don't care - well _____'em - where's the beer ?"

I absolved myself of all guilt, and cleared myself of all responsibility, so that I had nothing left to do but drink all day - I didn't lose my life, my friends, the people I loved - I *chased* them away...with a bottle.

It wasn't until that one day when I realised that I'd shrunk my world down to my room, my armchair, my TV, and daily trips to the liquor store - and that it had been that way for as long as I could remember - that I FINALLY woke up.

I hope you get your D'OH moment :twak: before I did.

peace
D